Oh boy

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Lisa and little, Mar 12, 2019.

  1. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

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    please look at my Ss from last night and this am. What is going on? I assume that as I suspected my previous bottle of prozinc must have lost efficacy as we were getting totally different numbers on the same dose. Or is my meter broken?!!:banghead: I fed her normal meal since she is so low a 30 min stall would probably still be a NS #. will re test in an hour to see if I should give a token dose. Thoughts on +1 and dosing? If she’s up around 150 should I give maybe 1.5? I will be home today to monitor. Sheesh!
     
  2. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    It looks like you gave 1.5u? I think that was as good a guess as any. Given the lime greens last night, Little earned a reduction to 1.75u anyway, and given the low AMPS, I can understand dropping the dose a little more. She may be a bit high tonight, but she'll likely be bouncing for a few cycles from those low numbers, so no matter what she shows you later today/tonight, don't give more than 1.75u.
     
  3. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

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    Yes. Thanks Djamila. Didn’t even cross my mind to go to 1.75. Damn. My thinking was the rise was a food spike since I fed her her regular meal prior so wasnt sure she was rising on her own. Hope I didn’t screw her up too much. Thanks for the input. It is always so valuable.
     
  4. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

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    Oh god. +3 is 47!!! What the heck!!! I fed and will re test. Heart in mouth.
     
  5. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Just seeing this. How are you and Little doing now? I assume you have retested....what is BG after food? Did you give Little high carb food when you fed her?
     
  6. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

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    I gave LC and she only registered 52 which is the same as 47 Gave more( but different) LC food and will test again in 30 min. She seems fine! What on earth??!! Thanks Janet. I am sick to my stomach as of course I have travel planned this week :arghh:
     
  7. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Deep Breathes Lisa! You need to get Little up over 70 at least and preferably 80 so if you have any higher carb food, give her a tsp or so now. If you do not have higher carb food, do you have honey or syrup (maple or corn syrup) you can mix into her LC food to bring the carbs up?
     
  8. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

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    yes. Going in for a test now. Will give HC if she’s not up. This is so stressful...
     
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  9. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

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    This is bananas. 52 again. Gave HC food
     
  10. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    If the high carb doesn't bring her up, rub a little honey or syrup on her gums or cheeks. It won't last long but it will pump her up. Does your high carb food have gravy on it? If so, I'd try just giving her the gravy so you don't fill her up too much to the point where she won't eat.
    FYI, if you get any reading under 68 on the AT2 meter, I'd go straight for HC food immediately.
     
  11. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    You're at about +4.5 in the cycle now? Is that correct?
     
  12. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

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    How is it that she seems totally normal?!! Hopefully the HC brings her up
     
  13. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

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    Exactly 4.5
     
  14. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    The 68 we use as a warning number allows for some cushion. Some non-diabetic cats will run a little lower. You are also using the Insulinx strips so they could be reading a tiny bit low. Do you have any AT2 strips available to do a double check?
     
  15. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

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    Did a double check this am with AT2. It’s consistent. +5ish is still 57! Gave honey on gums ( and face and neck) she is mad now. But still acting normal and eating no problem. What do I do from here? This is so unusual that she doesn’t come up with food especially HC which I have only had to do once. I am a nervous wreck as I have a sitter for tomorrow PM and Thursday AM. My job sucks with all the travel
     
  16. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Give Little another tsp of high carb food with some honey mixed in (1/2 tsp) or if she doesn't like that, do you have any vanilla ice cream? If so you could get her to lap a tsp or so of that up on her own instead of trying to ply her with syrup. Been there done that trying to get syrup into my girl's mouth. She was not amused either.
     
  17. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    As for your trip, it seems apparent Little is sending you a message that her dose needs to be reduced and definitely more than you had intended. She will probably be a little more sensitive to insulin right now so let's see where she lands at PMPS tonight before making any dosing decisions.
    Does Little have any history of ketones or DKA? Does your sitter test/shoot or just shoot?
     
  18. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

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    Sitter just shoots unfortunately.and I am away almost all next week to boot. In any case +6 was 72. Should I feed anymore? I’m afraid she’s going to explode if I give her any more ! No ketones or DKA are you asking because I have to lower her dose and we know doing that will make her run high? Or is there something else I am not aware of?
     
  19. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    No more food for now. She may be reaching nadir or been there already. Let's see what she does without food for 30 minutes and check her again.

    I get your concern but we'll help you figure this out and keep Little safe. She doesn't have any history of ketones or DKA does she?
     
  20. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

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    No history of either. Can you tell me why you are asking? Is just because we assume that with a reduced dose which in emeinent she will run higher and may be at risk for that?
     
  21. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    When there is a history of ketones/DKA, then skipping doses or even reducing too much is more problematic. If Little has no history, then we don't need to worry about it. Some cats are more prone to ketones than others and their dosing decisions need to take that into consideration. I certainly didn't mean to panic you and no I don't think letting her run a bit higher especially given how well (too well) she has been doing lately. Depending on what she does over the next cycle or two, you may need to consider skipping a dose or two with no testing/monitoring being done while you are away. Running higher for a couple of cycles isn't going to suddenly cause ketones.
     
  22. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

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    Thank you. That’s what I thought. I’m just a bit nervous. This is some nutty run!!
     
  23. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I know how scary this is. I remember when my girl suddenly and unexpectedly starting having totally green cycles. It's like you are right back to square one trying to figure them out. As scary as this is, I think it's looking very promising. :)
     
  24. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Have you tested Little again lately? I see a "57" on the SS after the 72. Did she drop down again and you gave more honey? If she did and it's been 30 minutes, please test her again.
     
  25. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

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    No the bottom line are the actual + numbers and the top line are the intermittent tests through the incident.(feeding/testing and retesting in 30-40 min intervals ) I would love to believe this is looking promising but I am wondering if it all has to do with a new bottle of prozinc started the morning of the 11th Seems my previous bottle may have lost efficacy so I’m not sure what these numbers mean other than it’s a bad time to travel. True +8 is 263. Any thoughts appreciated. At least I can breathe but what a mess. And I think she hates me AND what a way to burn through test strips :):banghead:
     
  26. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I think that 263 is mostly bounce and honey and high carb food and probably a little bit of "I've had enough of all this poking!" LOL!

    Things to consider
    1. Had your old vial of ProZinc lost its efficacy? I see you started the previous vial in February so that seems to be unlikely unless it was mishandled at some point before you received it or did you leave it out of the fridge for an extended period at some point that could have rendered it less potent? I honestly think you would have seen a bigger drop on the day cycle of the 11th with the dose from the new vial if any of this was related to insulin efficacy.
    2. Have those higher BG through Feb/early Mar been a product of too much rather than too little insulin? I'm kind of leaning in this direction. On the 2nd of Mar. Little went down to 74 but you didn't take any reduction in dose at that time. I think one was warranted. With meter variance that is pretty close to your warning of potential low BG and taking some action. I would have reduced to 1.75u then.
    3. With there being 2 cycles March 9/10 when Little has been given insulin but no pre-shot or mid cycle tests were done, it's quite possible she has dipped down lower than you thought, causing some bouncing to higher numbers again on your return and making it look like everything was status quo. Her BG mid-cycle on the day of the 9th suggests her BG may have already been heading in a downward direction.
    The low yesterday seems to support my hypothesis because the defence systems that work to push numbers up do eventually get exhausted so if stored glucose gets low, you then see low numbers. The lows yesterday could have made Little a bit more sensitive to insulin today but given how low she went, I'm inclined to think the dose still needs to be lowered. The big question is by how much.

    All that said, I have limited experience with ProZinc so while I would suggest you try a dose of no more than 1u tonight if you are able to monitor (otherwise I'd knock it down more), I'd like to see what the more seasoned ProZinc users think.

    @Djamila
    @Rachel
    @Kris & Teasel

    Lisa and Little need some guidance and you have far more experience than I do so we'd all appreciate your thoughts. Thx.
     
  27. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

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    I appreciate all of your advice support and help with this today. Thank you for keeping me sane. As for the prozinc being less effective, that vial was opened on Christmas so it was almost at the 3 month mark. I too have already thought of most of what you said. Just makes me so nervous having to leave. I am an anxiety ridden ness. Will def not do more than 1u tonight for sure. I kinda just want to cry
     
  28. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Oh Lisa..... I so get where you are at. And if you feel like having a cry, do it. It's actually very therapeutic.

    I've been in that position with my girl and it isn't fun but Little has given you a bit of warning so that you can plan accordingly. My girl didn't and her low BG came on 2 days into my week long cruise. You are only going to be gone for 2 shots right now so if need be, she misses a couple of shots as long as she is not running really high before your departure. Not ideal I admit, but safety has to be the first consideration. And you need to be able to work without Little's well being preying on your mind constantly while you are away.
     
  29. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

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    It weighs on my mind always. I am more worried about my next trip which is 6 whole days!! I know I shouldn’t freak out about it yet but i am. Crazy question. You may think I’m nuts ... her schedule is now off by 1 hr. Would it be crazy if I went 1/2 hr early tonight? Obviously I’ll test first but I’d like to get her back to her normal time as that’s when I have the sitter set up for. Nuts I know but since she was at 263 at +8 ~I’m ASSUMING ... she will be in the 300s at +11 1/2
     
  30. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    No I don't think you are nuts at all! And yes you can give her insulin half hour early tonight.
     
  31. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

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    Ok 11. 1/2 is 450. So you think 1U is the call?
     
  32. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Let's try 1u and hopefully you can get some sleep tonight which I am sure is badly needed at this point. :)
     
  33. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

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    Done. Don’t know how much sleep I’ll get as I’m guessing she’s gonna stay high which makes me unhappy as well but at least she should be safe. She only ate about 2/3 of her meal... geez I wonder why? Lol again thank you so much for all of your help today. You kept me sane :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  34. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    My pleasure Lisa. This dance is tough at times and I am just paying back what I got from this community! :bighug:
     
  35. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    So I just got on here and apparently I missed the party today! So sorry, it's been a busy day. I think a 1 unit dose was a great choice. That way, Little can have a chance to hopefully reset while still getting some insulin to hopefully bring her very gently down.

    When will you be out of town, Lisa?
     
  36. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

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    Thank you so much. Hopefully one day I can too. Although that would mean more sick kitties :(
     
  37. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

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    You sure did!! Geez. This day was good for my diet but that’s about all. I Leave tomorrow afternoon and hopefully back by PM shot on Thursday. My big anxiety is coming from next week. Will be gone the 20-25th. I’ve tried to show my sitter how to test but so far no luck. I think he’s just scared as we all were at first.
     
  38. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Well shoot, I missed all the fun! :D

    A couple of notes about hypos:
    - you've probably read me telling people to try low carb food first. That is particularly true when the lime green is getting closer towards usual nadir time. When you get an early lime green like that, medium or higher carb food is fine, and probably even the better option.
    - rubbing karo/honey on a cat's gums should only be done if they are unable to eat themselves. If they are still conscious and can eat on their own, just keep feeding the high carb food. a healthy cat will come up, but it may take a little time. as long as they are not symptomatic, that's okay. And if they become symptomatic, then they can't eat for themselves and at that point you can force it (i.e. rub it on their gums). honey and karo are very short lived, and you're really aiming to steer the kitty safely into better territory, so the food (carbs+protein+fat) is a better solution as long as the cat is still able to eat.
    - encouraging drinking seems to help too. Now the disclaimer on this one: I haven't read any research about that. It's just something I've learned from Sam. Whenever he goes low too fast, he drinks water. He's not much for drinking, so there is something about it that helps him feel better. Just thought I'd throw it out there in case it might help some other kitty too.

    Okay, now onto the dose. While Little is a bit bouncy, I don't think you've been overdosing (up until now ;)). I think today's margarita party (limes....get it :smuggrin: haha) has to be considered in the context of the cycles near it. Little had a flat yellow cycle yesterday AM. For whatever bizarre and unexplainable reason, those often precede active cycles. Which you saw last night with those lime greens during the night. Then this morning, she was rising, but was still significantly lower than normal when you gave the shot. The insulin kicked in faster (we'll get to that in a minute) and brought her crashing down. I don't think 1.5u was too much. It was just too much for today. And unfortunately, we can't really predict that. Sometimes it just happens.

    But here's where we might have been able to guess it would happen: we just went through a time change. Most of the kitties are out of their usual patterns right now, and will be for another day or so. We are too. Remember how hard it was to go to sleep last night? And how much harder it was to wake up when your alarm went off? When we change times, even by just an hour our hormones get all messed up. It's why our sleep is off, and if you're a particularly sensitive soul, you may be finding that you're hungry at the "wrong" times too. Our cats are going through the same thing. And since insulin is a hormone, and it's interacting with other hormones and complex physiology, their patterns and responses are wonky.

    So again, I think on any other day, that 1.5u would have probably been just fine. But it was the perfect storm of a hypo last night, a number that wasn't quite high enough at PS, and hormones that are all over the place because of the time change.

    And it all conspire to give you quite a scare today. :bighug::bighug::bighug:

    I do hope you sat down and had that cry. As Linda said, it really is therapeutic and important for our own sanity to let ourselves release that angst. Crying is an incredibly healing thing. Plus, as mentioned, your hormones are going to be messed up for another few days as well, so might as well just roll with it and cry (or laugh) as much as you need to right now! Sending you lots of love and hope for a good and peaceful sleep tonight. You both need it!
     
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  39. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

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    Great explanation although I had her adjusted to daylight savings prior by moving her in 15 minute Increments a few days before so that her normal shot time would be daylight savings time. Do you still think that could be part of it? As for the LC vs HC food that makes perfect sense -thank you. I assume you are explaining the same thing to Rachel and Gizmo right now. Lol Some margarita party. The only salt was from my tears. All this said- any thoughts for am dose if she is 250 or above?
     
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  40. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

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    And what are your thoughts on why the insulin kicked in so soon? I swear you have become my guru.. you make so much sense. You must have some kind of a science or medical background??
     
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  41. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    LOL...definitely not a science background. I've learned a lot from reading research on this, and I've learned a TON from Kris & Teasel, who does have a science background.

    Given that you had walked her into the time change slowly, that may not be a factor. And in that case, we will want to be a little more careful with the pet sitter dose. Good to know!
     
  42. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Oh sorry! I keep forgetting to finish my answers before I hit "post" (see what I mean about the time change? ;))

    The insulin may have kicked in faster because of hormone-wonkiness (although I think you've debunked that one). or it could have been an absorption issue. This is where prozinc seems to be much more sensitive than the L insulins. Hydration can make a difference in how fast/slow it kicks in, the location of the shot (even if just over by a few millimeters), or injection-site movement (rubbing/pushing on the injection site, the kitty deciding to suddenly sprint around the house, rubbing up against the furniture, etc). None of those are things you can see or predict, but they can impact how fast the insulin hits. For most cats, there will be a 'normal' that is fairly predictable, but sometimes something as little as picking her up after the shot and squeezing where you just injected can make a difference. I am NOT saying you shouldn't snuggle your kitty after the shot. We have to just make peace with a little unpredictability sometimes! Oh, and the "over by a few millimeters" part -- I read this fascinating article (I wish I had bookmarked it!) that showed the tree-like pattern insulin makes after it's injected as it works around the connective tissue. This is another aspect that you can't predict or control, but sometimes the "tree" ends up in bad spot, or doesn't spread out, or spreads out too much. And that can impact onset as well.

    Oh, there is so much we can't control! We just have to do our best and take what we get!
     
  43. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

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    Well I am thankful for your brain always. I know talking about AM is irrelevant without a number but can you give me your thoughts on AM dose assuming PS is 250 or higher which I suspect it will be as she just got into some more food ... still LC but not her usual. I left it out as no one finished dinner tonight for obvious reasons. They are stuffed! More concerning is what to do about tomorrow PM as I won’t have a test:oops: definitely not sleeping tonight worrying about that.
     
  44. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

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    So I’ve read that one as well and did a test a while back where I documented where I shot her. Kinda easy as she’s a tux so I used black/white markings for a few cycles each to see if there was a difference. I didn’t really see anything noticeable. I have it on my SS as B or W. kris asked once what the heck that was... just my little experiment. Any way-TODAY I CONSCIOUSLY MOVED THE SITE OVER closer to the shoulder instead of the middle. Hmmmmm...: co-inky dink? Perhaps not
     
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  45. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Interesting hypothesis about different injection sites and injection site contact. With Lantus and the depot, rubbing the shot area can break down the depot somewhat and cause different release state but I never thought of that being an issue with ProZinc. As for injection sites, I never found any difference between scruff and flank but had a vet tell me scruff wasn't the best spot to inject due to poorer absorption. Possibly another one of those ECID things.....live and learn!
     
  46. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

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    I wish I saved my magic 8 ball!!
     
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  47. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    I believe there are websites that have digital Magic 8 balls you could consult ;)

    Please please try to sleep tonight. You need some rest after today! Honestly, we might need the dart board for your travel dose! Are you going to be around tomorrow during the day? Or will you be at work? Little has dropped a little over 100 points at +2.5 tonight, which is more than one might expect given that she's stuffed with carbs and should be having her food spike. I don't think she's in any danger of going low again -- just that the 1u might not be such a small dose after all. If she's yellow or low pink, another cycle at 1u might be in order. If she's low yellow or blue :confused:, then all bets are off. o_O
     
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  48. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

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    +5 281. She wasn’t really stuffed with carbs. Maybe 2 teaspoons HC and the honey. Also starting to wonder if no carbs (really the diet she’s on if you look at chart) might be bad. Been thinking about that lately. Maybe she needs a FEW carbs? Anyway. Thanks all. I’m not setting another alarm. Well see what we get in the AM. Hugs to you all for being with me. Xoxox I will be around tomorrow till about 3 pm so will be able to test
     
  49. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    I hope you got some sleep, Lisa! I'll check in later to see how things ended up for AMPS as long as things don't go sideways at work. :)
     
  50. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

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    Thank you. AMPS AT 11 1/2 is 296. Open to suggestions!!!!
     
  51. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    I think I’d be tempted to do 1 unit again. She might be sensitive today due to those lows yesterday and the fact that she’s yellow even after that makes me think that it might be enough for now. It could be too little but 1 on a red brought you to a yellow today. Either 1 or 1.5 is what I’d do depending on if you’re around and what you feel good with.
     
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  52. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    I think I’d be tempted to do 1 unit again. She might be sensitive today due to those lows yesterday and the fact that she’s yellow even after that makes me think that it might be enough for now. It could be too little but 1 on a red brought you to a yellow today. Either 1 or 1.5 is what I’d do depending on if you’re around and what you feel good with.
     
  53. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    You've had great advise from all the others. I like Rachel's recommendation of 1 u in light of the recent lows. You can always bump it up later. :)
     
  54. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

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    Hi guys.. so far we are flat today in the 200s. +7 at 284 Thoughts on this evenings dose? Looks like I’ll be around myself as my meeting got cancelled however I will be gone after Am shoot tomorrow. Do I bump her a bit maybe to 1.25?
     
  55. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Since you will home for the PMPS, I'd hold off on that decision. Right now I am leaning at holding at 1u. That flat yellow cycle can sometimes just be a flat cycle but it can also mean the next cycle will be an active one. Little bounced after those low numbers yesterday but she is coming back down. If you are going to be away for only one shot, my vote would be to hold at 1u while you are gone unless of course that dose elicits a lower BG again tonight. I wouldn't chance raising the dose until you are back home and any bouncing from those lows has cleared.
     
  56. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

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    I hear ya but I tend to be a bit aggressive so my gut says 1.25 especially if PS is pink or worse. I guess we will see what PS is. My fear holding is it would be 5 cycles at 1 U and if not enough.... I just want her to feel good. Assuming things stay stays quo the next few days- I am away from PM on the 20th till AM on the 26th. Where she would only be getting max 1U going by what I’m faced with today (I know this may change) This is just so tough.the worry-no sleep and knowing she’s not at the best level. Thanks for listening to me wrestle with the thoughts in my head!
     
  57. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Lisa, I get it completely. My girl is a high dose kitty (16u twice daily for awhile) so I really do get your angst about not allowing BG to go up and also keeping Little safe in your absence. Remember though this is not a sprint....its a marathon. You are helping get Little's BG down but you can't force it and sometimes trying to force it serves to lengthen not shorten the journey to regulation. Patience is key.

    Despite lowering the dose to 1.5u yesterday, Little still went lower than you really want her to go and especially when she will not be monitored at all. Take this time to see what she does on 1u. When you get back on Friday you'll have time to see if a dose increase is needed before you leave for the longer business trip. Consider this a trial run for a day. It should make it easier to determine a safe dose to give for your longer trip. Better too high for a day than too low for a moment.

    Her BG is not that bad. I may be wrong but I don't think she'll be pink tonight. I'm betting on yellow. Little....are you listening? :D
     
  58. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

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    lol. I know your right. I think I haven’t quite recovered emotionally from yesterday so I’m over thinking and not doing it clearly. I hope little IS listening and will hold a high yellow. C mon Little!! I’d feel better about the 1U then. Thank you Linda. And 16 U? Omg. I think I’d have a heart attack. You are a stronger woman than me and I looked at your SS strong intestinal fortyto shoot on those greens. God bless. How long before menace was OTJ? I guess if he can go from 16u to OTJ there is hope for us!!
     
  59. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    We lucked out eventually after 3yrs, 7 months and 12 days! Long trip and one I never thought would end. Menace was young when diagnosed, a total kibble addict until 2+ years into our journey and she had IAA (Insulin Auto Antibodies) which is relatively rare on its own so my vet had no idea what to do with her. This board taught me what I needed to know and gave me the strength to be able to give large doses of insulin without having a nervous breakdown. So yes there is hope and no one should ever give it up. I admit my hope was waning. It was like someone suddenly flipped a switch with Menace. A sudden change in her BGs similar to what Little just did to you.

    The hardest part of FD is patience. Little is doing extremely well so try not to get discouraged. Little may be feeling off today thanks to those green numbers yesterday. She isn't used to those dark green much less the lime numbers. She'll be fine. :)
     
  60. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2018
    Thanks again. All here in this group are truly a gift. I could not have gotten this far without all of you. That’s an amazing story you have with menace. Btw.. love the name. Lol
     
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  61. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    She's certainly lived up to it so far and continues to do so everyday! :woot:
     
  62. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2018
    PS is 353. Should I go up to 1.25??
     
  63. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Well apparently Little's middle name in Menace! She let me down.....
    I'm still concerned that flat cycle today could be the precursor to an active cycle tonight or tomorrow. She is up but not that much. Last night Little was in the red and came down to yellows. Tonight she is pink and 1u might take her into blues. I'd still go with 1u but it's entirely up to you if you want to try 1.25u but I'd be prepared to possibly be monitoring later into the night.
     
  64. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Checking SS now one sec
     
  65. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    The flat cycle today was honestly not that surprising...they sometimes do that after going super low like she did. She should clear this bounce soon (hopefully) and get back to normal.

    What are you thinking? 1 or 1.25? I might be tempted to stick with 1 for one more cycle and then go up if you didn't get some good numbers. Both because you want to stay consistent for a bit to help her settle down after that low, she might still be a bit sensitive, and you really might want to g me et some sleep. And believe me that last reason is totally valid. I feel uou about wanting to be aggressive and get those numbers down, but you've had a tough few days and you might feel better with some rest. However, if you want to bump to 1.25, I think that'd be fine too. Just make sure to get a test at +2 and see what that tells you about the cycle. :)
     
  66. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2018
    Thanks guys. I was so on the fence. I don’t care about sleep at this point but I went with 1U and a”butt hair”
     
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  67. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Lol splitting it in half....I love it! Let's see where Little is in the morning and if needed, we can increase then. :)
     
  68. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2018
    Not even really. Even shy of what I’d call a fat 1. Just under the line but with no space in between. Lol talk about micro dosing. I have to leave at +3 tomorrow and PM will be sitter but I will be back for +2 after pm shot. Thought it best not to push it too much for tomorrow’s sake.
     
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  69. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

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    Sep 24, 2018
    She also got spooked by something and ran under bed without eating so ... yeah little the menace!!
     
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  70. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2018
    +4 is 370. Oh magic eight ball what now?:oops::oops:
     
  71. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Deep breathes! That is essentially the same as the PMPS with meter variance. She may still drop this cycle. For now though I think you should go get some sleep. Little will be fine. :)
     
  72. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2018
    She stayed flat last night. Went with a true “fat 1” this am will get a +3 then I’m gone till after PM shot. Thanks girls for all your advice. !!
     
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  73. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Sorry to disappear -- my internet has been down for the past 24 hours. Turns out that I really can live without Instagram! :p Honestly being offline for awhile was really nice. Regardless, I agree with what everyone else has been saying about dose, and I hope you have a really good trip today! :bighug:
     
  74. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2018
    Lol. All good. Thanks Djamila Funny I haven’t gone on IG in almost a week for nothing but lack of time. It is nice!!
     
  75. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2018
    Coasting along at +3 371 hmmphff!
     
  76. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2018
    Any thoughts on dosing going forward? Flat few cycles with a sprinkle of blue/green. My concern is I am leaving Wednesday and if I need to increase her a bit I want to do tonight or tomorrow so we have a few days. 1.5 sent her lime so I will definitely keep her below that while I’m gone but my fear is she’ll be running high for over a week at fat 1. Should I just hold and wait to adjust when I come back?
     
  77. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    You could try 1.25 over the next few days to see how she does. If she doesn't dive too low you *might* be able to have the sitter give that. When it comes to sitters who won't test there are two things often recommended: 1. decide on a dose that's easy to read on the syringe barrel; 2. leave a bigger margin than you would for yourself. If you decide that a fat 1 u or 1.25 u looks like a good sitter dose, draw up a reference syringe using coloured water for that person to use as a guide.
     
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  78. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2018
    Yes I’ve thought about all of this. Thank you Kris. Last time I left colored water in a syringe I got a phone call asking me if he were to inject it!! If you look at last nights numbers we got a 109 and 98. I am afraid 1.25 may be too much. For sure 1.25 is a tough dose as it is totally subjective to someone’s eye..in any case my plan is to perhaps mark a syringe with marker for dose reference but I’m a little afraid of 1 .25 and a sitter Based on last nights numbers
     
  79. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    I agree getting a sitter to draw up 1.25u could be problematic. Given that Little has gone down to 98 on a slightly bit fat 1.0u, I don't think I'd chance anything higher with the sitter. Little definitely bounced today after the 98 last night but she has to get used to those greens and those are the numbers you need to be concerned with particularly in your absence.
    As Kris said, you could try the 1.25u this weekend but I'd still revert back to the 1.0u a couple of days before you leave just to be sure the 1.0u is still safe.
     
  80. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2018
    Exactly where my brain is but obviously worried she will run really high for an entire week! Makes me sick to think about yet I know the other option is way worse. I guess my real quandary here is she went from getting good numbers at fat 2 and bam.... now we are at 1? Doesn’t seem logical to me -so my big worry is can leaving her too high for a n entire week by having sitter hold at 1U set any progress back ? And then I think how do you go from fat 2 to 1 in an instant ? Maybe she really needs to be brought up again gradually given the solid high 3s and holding at 1 for so long will be detrimental to any progress. I know. I’m an overthinking worry wart pain in the *#! :p
     
  81. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    You are NOT a PIA except maybe to yourself. Been there....done that. You are doing exactly what so many of us do. You are looking for the black and white perfect answer that meets both Little's and your needs. It doesn't exist because unless you can stay with your kitty 24/7, which none of can, there will be times when you have to take the next best answer.

    The last vacation I took, I didn't reduce as much as I should have (wrestled with much the same things you are.... not wanting to lose momentum). My sitter was testing and was terrified (as was I) when my girl threw her a 48 the 3rd night. Needless to say, the dose got skipped that night and considerably lowered for the duration of my trip. Menace was no worse for wear in the weeks to come.

    As for the dose dropping all of a sudden, it happens. With my girl, a few months before she went into remission, it was like someone flipped a switch and I suddenly felt like I was "drowning" in a TOTALLY green SS. I learned that sometimes I had to skip shots or reduce dose in order to keep my life together and quite frankly, I never regretted it. Better to take a safe course and deal with any setback should it happen, when you get home.
     
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  82. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2018
    God.i would have flipped out with a 48 if I were not there!! You are truly a strong woman 16 units/ hypos when not home... Thanks Linda again , .without you guys I’d be totally batshit crazy. If I’m interpreting what you said correctly I am correct in thinking lowering her too much can set us back? Still gonna do it of course. Just want to set my brain up for disappointment upon my return if need be.
     
  83. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Not exactly. You can't expect to keep the same downward momentum going when you are not there to monitor and no one else will be monitoring. Keeping Molly in safe reasonable numbers will not set her backward but she won't be making headway either. Far better to be reasonably conservative and keep Molly in reasonable numbers than to have her go too low in your absence.
     
  84. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2018
    Well. Blah blah blah... +4 is 60!! Geez there’s my answer!! 1u it is.
     
  85. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Live and learn......;) you shot a dose increase into a bounce that just broke! Beware those highs after lows.

    I'm loaning you my Patience pants..... PatiencePants.jpg :woot:
     
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  86. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2018
    Lol. I’m ok thank you. Better I know now. Do you think the numbers might look different on this dose if she wasn’t on a bounce? Guessing maybe she went lower than 98 last night. That might explain things. Guessing I’m not the only one with cat blood on their pjs:joyful:
     
  87. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Yes if her BG was in the pink but not from a bounce, she probably wouldn't have dropped as much. That's a heck of a drop (300 points in 4 hours) so you can pretty much bank on more bouncing. Sometimes being too aggressive holds up rather than speeding up progress.
     
  88. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2018
    Damn. I screwed up. Just felt like 1U was keeping her high. Guess I should have given it a few more cycles
     
  89. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Don't worry about it and don't beat yourself up. You found out tonight that she doesn't seem to need the extra 0.25u. We've all fallen down that rabbit hole.....I know I did it more than once so don't sweat it. ;)
     
  90. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    What are you giving her food wise? She's still sitting below 68.
     
  91. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    I see Little finally got up to 78., WHEW! She really is putting you through your paces! Sweet dreams! :D
     
  92. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2018
    Yes. Eating no problem. Just have some HC food. So here’s another thing that I wasn’t going to bring up but this seemed to appear overnight a day or so ago and could it have gotten bigger in a day? No redness, itching sign of getting swiped by Molly. Skin looks totally normal. Of course I just googled bald spot on cat and now I’m panicked. I NEED SLEEP. But seems not so much tonight.
     

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  93. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

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    Sep 24, 2018
    Forgot to hit post on above. That was from 1am
     
  94. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2018
    I think she’s trying to kill me. Lol
     
  95. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    That little spot looks pretty benign to me. I'd keep an eye on it but I really don't think it's anything to be concerned about. My girl gets those every so often and I'll be darned if I can figure out what caused them. The hair should grow back relatively soon.
     
  96. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2018
    Did you ever google it? While it does day diabetes can cause I find it weird that she would develop that when she is actually doing better. Anyway google also lists a host of other causes none of which are pretty. My original gut told me it was nothing which is why I didn’t mention it before. I will try not to obsess and hope it just grows back. Thank you for hanging with me tonight and coaching me through. So appreciated to know I am not alone. We just played our nightly game of fetch .. yes she brings me her toy at bedtime, drops it on my head and the game ensues. Amazing that every hypo we’ve had she has never had a change in behavior or symptom.
     
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  97. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    I did google it out of curiosity as to what you'd found and yes it was unsettling. But Dr. Google is often a panic monger. They never tell you that kitty may have just scratched themselves vigorously in one spot or against something. I have 3 furballs and while I have never seen a cut or anything, I always figured her periodic unknown cause tiny bald spots were probably from her overly exuberant brother getting a little rough. I literally caught him with her hair in his mouth one day but couldn't find a mark on my girl save for a tiny bald patch that I didn't remember being there before. Who knows!?

    No problem staying with you. Got another active kitty going tonight too. Lowest pre-shot for them so far and no "too low" numbers yet but we are close so monitoring closely. Those first times are scary! I remember my first lime green reading. I ran around my coffee table several times muttering instructions to myself. If anyone had seen me they would have locked me up.:woot:
     
  98. Lisa and little

    Lisa and little Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2018
    Lol. Thanks Linda. I won’t freak out about baldy just wondering if your bald patch girl was the diabetic though. AMPS WAS 266- I’m surprised actually. Shot a straight up 1U. Have to ask... were you wearing those pants when you ran around the table muttering?:woot::woot:
     
  99. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Read this statement of Linda's again and again because it's SO important. The thing that helps us "lifers" here stay sane is arriving at a place where we accept the ups and downs of treating FD, accept that we have made and will make mistakes, accept that how we dose our kitties often has to be a compromise to allow the rest of life to go on, accept that they will do unpredictable and scary things occasionally, and so on. BUT we also need to recognize that we're doing far more for our beloved kitties than many people would be willing to do, understand that kitties' bodies are more tolerant of the effects of FD than humans or dogs, that clinical signs are also very important and - once we've been through it a few times - trust our ability to deal effectively with kitty's dives into low BGs.

    I can't emphasize strongly enough how important mind set is in coping with this. There's just no magic bullet or way to fix it fast. :)
     
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  100. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Soooo.....I accidently posted this over on Asiina's thread, but meant it for you, Lisa. Sigh. Sorry for the late contribution:

    On a sticky somewhere it talks about bounces lasting 3-6 cycles. So maybe a good rule, given how quick to drop Little is these days, would be to make yourself wait at least three cycles before you try an increase. She seems to clear them pretty quickly, so if you haven't seen another green by three (or four so that increases can be during the day), then you can consider trying a little increase after that if it looks like she needs one. For now though, 1u is looking like it's enough.
     
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  101. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Yep....it was my extra sweet little girl.;)
     

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