Okay - We Have Movement - A High Bounce - Need Dosing Advice

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Greg and Goma & Friends, Jan 30, 2018.

  1. Greg and Goma & Friends

    Greg and Goma & Friends Member

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    Dec 8, 2017
    Just not in the area I wanted. At pm +7 we had a bg of 64. In trying to get second test could not get blood. When I was able to about 8 minutes later, bg was 54. Gave 1 1/2 Tbsp Hill's M/D and 1 Tbsp FRW. She was acting normal, eating normal. Kept an eye on her and checked again at pm +7.5 and she was safely resting at bg 109. Fed her breakfast and she is now fast asleep.

    Just a quick post as an FYI
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2018
  2. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    You're doing very well in a complicated situation. :)
     
  3. Greg and Goma & Friends

    Greg and Goma & Friends Member

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    Dec 8, 2017
    I appreciate that - Wish I could feel that way.
     
  4. Sarah Smith

    Sarah Smith Member

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    Apr 20, 2016
    Great job catching those numbers and keeping her safe!:bighug:
     
  5. Greg and Goma & Friends

    Greg and Goma & Friends Member

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    Dec 8, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2018
    Reason for edit: Added tags
  6. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    I'm sorry I'm so late! Yes, I agree with Kris that despite the low number, I wouldn't reduce the dose right now. I'd stick with the 3.5u. And I'm so sorry about that icky number. Not unexpected, but still yuck!
     
  7. Greg and Goma & Friends

    Greg and Goma & Friends Member

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    Dec 8, 2017
    I am thinking perhaps I should stay with this dosage for a longer period of time. I did not expect such a rapid evolution of this bounce which goes with my lack of experience and knowledge. I literally passed out last night and should have caught that lower number sooner. Lord only knows how low she actually got before I interceded.
     
  8. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    I would guess that she'll stay high for a few cycles after that drop today, so I would probably aim for more like six cycles this time before considering another move, although we'll have to see if she's giving any hints about what she has in mind.

    It's so good to see her getting some movement again!
     
  9. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    Yes to bouncing but she did come down mid cycle instead of staying high and flat. That's something. Hold this dose for a bit. The +2 test is a good weather vane test to get routinely. If there's no dramatic drop you can usually wait until +5 to +7 to test again.
     
  10. Greg and Goma & Friends

    Greg and Goma & Friends Member

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    Dec 8, 2017
    I sincerely appreciate the continued advice/guidance - always nice to hear from you.
     
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  11. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 25, 2013
    Yup those darn bounces! Sticking with the same dose might help with the bouncing some...I think it’s a good plan for now.
     
  12. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    Glad you got some input. (I can't help with the dosing side of things because I've not used Prozinc.)


    Mogs
    .
     
  13. Greg and Goma & Friends

    Greg and Goma & Friends Member

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    Dec 8, 2017
    Sorry, didn’t realize and will remember now.
     
  14. Greg and Goma & Friends

    Greg and Goma & Friends Member

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    Dec 8, 2017
    Many thanks for your guidance and support. I know she is better for it.
     
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  15. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    Not a worry. :)

    I've used Caninsulin (an intermediate-acting, in-out insulin) and Lantus (a long-acting, depot insulin) plus I've seen case histories of FDMB cats receiving other insulins so I understand the general principles of treatment with Prozinc but not the nitty-gritty.

    I see Goma had her sunglasses on during today's PM cycle! :cool:


    Mogs
    .
     
  16. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    Maybe go up to 3.75 u tomorrow?
     
  17. Holly1988

    Holly1988 New Member

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    Jan 16, 2018
    What would be consider rapid vs. Non rapid drop for +2 to make decisions on when to test again. My Jax seems to always have at least a 100pt drop.
     
  18. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    It depends on what the actual BG number is of course but 100+ points when the BG is in the 300-400s is a big drop. If PS is in the low 200s a 50+ point drop is big.
     
  19. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    It also depends on the nadir and the kitty's usual patterns. My cat drops quickly, and is usually at or near nadir by +3, then stays pretty steady for a few hours from there. Other cats drop throughout the curve, so in that case, a big early drop can be a sign of an active cycle.
     
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  20. Greg and Goma & Friends

    Greg and Goma & Friends Member

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    Dec 8, 2017
    Yes and done.
     
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  21. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    I'm glad you'll be going up to 4 u tomorrow - saw the note on your SS. Are you beginning to feel more confident about increasing her dose?
     
  22. Greg and Goma & Friends

    Greg and Goma & Friends Member

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    Dec 8, 2017
    Not particularly confident, I just think I see the need. Would have done this today, but as I noted there were other issues I am dealing with. Have pretty much alienated the current vet who still thinks I should back the dosage down and move slower. Also insisted I needed a fructosamine test as it was critical. I again attempted to show him the spreadsheet and assure him I had a pretty good handle on what her levels were not only over the past two weeks, but the past two months. Refused to even look at it so that is that....However, the treatment of other cats in my care by this individual leaves much to be desired and I am now trying to move on. I've grown weary of the guessing what is wrong with a particular cat and even after tests (blood, urine, xray, echo just to name a few) still not have a diagnosis. "Try this for a while..." For the love of ... they are in need and I know have feelings.

    Sorry to ramble, not pertinent, but just letting you know I have many others in my care; some with medical needs that I am trying to meet. Goma needs the increase as I know we've got to get these numbers down. On a positive note: She is now weighing a good 4+ kg. Not much energy still, and as noted on the ss, I am trying Zobaline which I just got in the mail from stateside. Will see how that goes and start the probiotic shortly. But definitely more cat like - loves to be waited on...

    Thanks again for monitoring the way you are - I need it and believe me I do know it...
     
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  23. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    Kudos to you for taking good care of multiple kitties. I think you really are getting used to assessing Goma's BGs and knowing when a dose increase is needed. Don't sell yourself short. There are many members who have vets who are totally clueless about treating feline diabetes and that's why we end up here helping each other. :)
     
  24. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    I echo what Kris said: you're doing a great job! And it sounds like you have your hands full! I'm sorry things with your vet aren't working out. It is so so so hard to find a good vet anywhere really. I hope you are able to find someone that at least feels more comfortable to you than the current one. :bighug:
     
  25. Greg and Goma & Friends

    Greg and Goma & Friends Member

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    Dec 8, 2017
    I do have a quick question - How much bearing will her weight gain now have on the insulin? I'm reading but not grasping a lot at the moment. She has gone from 2.3 kg to 4.25 (+ 4.4 lbs) in about 2 months. Is this too rapid a gain? The target is well within reach, so should I be looking at abit more regulating in regards to feeding schedule? I know I keep focusing on this, but it is, I believe a crucial part of the overall picture and want to give her the best chance for a solid recovery and enjoyable life.

    Sorry - there is a second question - What do you do give a cat that is not eating well? What can I provide (short of steroids which is the vets only answer) to get one to start eating again. Blood tests and other tests do not indicate any problems.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
  26. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    If it's just mild inappetance, sometimes tuna juice or fortiflora (you can buy this on amazon) can entice a kitty to eat. However, if it's more severe, then I believe Cyproheptadine and Mirtazapine are the two drugs usually prescribed for appetite stimulants. Often in conjunction with cerenia or ondansetron for anti-nausea. So first you give the anti-nausea meds, and then a while later the appetite stimulant.

    I haven't seen Mogs around as much lately, but I'll tag her just in case as she is definitely our expert on meds around here! @Critter Mom
     

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