Old Newbie ... Introducing Syd

Discussion in 'Welcome to the Group - Post an Introduction Here' started by LauraJ, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. LauraJ

    LauraJ New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2018
    Hi all. Syd is not my first diabetic (he's actually my third sugar cat), but it's been years since I've had one so I'm a newbie all over again.

    Syd is a 13-yr-old blind brown tabby, indoor only cat, 15lbs. Besides the diabetes, his blood panel is fine. He's a healthy boy.

    And now I'm dealing with a vet that I strongly disagree with. Syd's blood sugar was 147 in May. I brought him in to see the vet in early December, though, because he was drinking far too much water, and I knew what that probably meant. This time, his blood sugar was 407. I was shocked. So he had me start with Lantus 1 unit, twice daily and wanted Syd switched to a veterinary diet.

    Instead, I switched Syd to a grain free diet, slowly replacing dry with wet only. Getting closer. But his numbers weren't budging. After A month, I inched his dose up to 1.5 units twice daily. We're now up to 2 units twice a day. I've gotten his numbers down to around 330 range, but they won't budge lower.

    The vet said it's perfectly fine for Syd to live out the rest of his life in the 300+ range, since sugar cats don't live long anyway. As you might imagine, this upset me greatly. I have gotten previous cats to live happily in the 100-150 range. I strongly believe that allowing Syd to remain in the 300 range is exactly what will shorten his life. But this vet isn't willing to let me increase his dose until I try Syd on a prescription diet for at least two weeks and then run another curve.

    Unless the vet food (which I have little faith or trust in) works a miracle, I don't expect his numbers will drop. But I said I would try. Meanwhile, I am going to bring Syd in for a follow-up with another doctor and explain my qualms. I've already printed a lot of documentation from catinfo.org and resources found at DCIN. I also have my previous curve records for my last diabetic.

    Am I on the right track, or should I trust this doctor more?
     
  2. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2017
    Welcome! I would not waste my trust on that vet. I think going to another doctor is exactly the action I would take. I hope the next one has more sense.
     
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  3. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    Trust your instincts on choosing a vet. Some things never change. Hi Syd! :bighug:
     
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  4. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    Just think, if you had not deleted your account you would now be a Super-Senior-Member! Don't you get a gold watch by now? :rolleyes:
     
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  5. LauraJ

    LauraJ New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2018
    Well, my email address changed between now and then so I probably still would've lost my super senior status , and this doctor makes me feel like I'm starting all over. I keep kept thinking, when did diabetes become a death sentence? What changed since the last time I had a diabetic? When I mentioned that I was also going to start Syd on B12 injections, he was a bit taken aback, but then said that it would probably help him eat the prescription food better.

    I can't tell you how much I appreciate just having a couple of people tell me that I'm not losing my mind, and that it is not yet time to go shopping for urns for my cat.
     
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  6. Lisa and Witn (GA)

    Lisa and Witn (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
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  7. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    More like a couple of thousand! It's tragic veterinary medicine hasn't progressed much since the last time you were here. I think I became a well known member after 3 months. "Well Known" for what is for others to decide. Sudden mood swings/funny/not so funny/symptoms of bi-polar/chronic over-posting/ following and then un-following members just to make them nuts. Don't dig too deep into "Recent Activity", you might not like what you see. I think surgeons call that "Peek and Shriek".:rolleyes:
     
  8. Sandi & Whisper

    Sandi & Whisper Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Agree, agree, agree, agree!

    Find a new vet. Trust your gut. Period.

    Welcome to you and dear Syd!

    Best,
    Sandi & Whisper.
     
  9. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    "following and then un-following members just to make them nuts"
    Alert/ Noah is now following you.
    Alert/ Noah is not following you.
    etc. etc. :banghead: ;) :blackeye: :( :oops: :rolleyes: :smuggrin:
     
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  10. LauraJ

    LauraJ New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2018
    Food before yesterday: Since the day of Syd's diagnosis, I switched to grain-free. I've been playing with brands because he's fussy, but he likes the grain-free Beyond dry. Canned has been trickier. We've been through Solid Gold, Tiki, Weruva, pate Fancy Feast, Soulistic, Wellness, Blue Buffalo, Instinct, BFF, etc. I keep 1/2 cup of grain-free dry out for Syd each morning. It's in a deep bowl, making it less accessible, but at least it's there. Moving him to canned only has been problematic because if he doesn't want to eat it, he just lets himself starve. Treats consist of freeze-dried chicken or bonita flakes.

    As of last night, though, I've moved him to a prescription diet. As I mentioned before, I don't have a lot of faith or trust in prescription cat food, but I agreed with the vet to give it a 1-2 week trial. This weekend I'll run a curve and see if the numbers move. If nothing else, at least my having tried their recommendation will remove the argument from the table. I can say I tried. Syd likes the ProPlan DM Savory Morsels and Royal Canin Glycobalance morsels, and Pro Plan DM dry. So this is what he'll eat for a week or two until I can prove that the prescription food is crap or I'm proved wrong and he shows improvement.

    I've also made an appointment with another veterinarian that I've used in the past and I trust. Unfortunately, he's in the same practice. Hopefully he's got an open mind. Among other topics of discussion, I want to rule out any possible contributing factors. While his full blood panel looks good, he's got arthritis in his hips. I'm concerned that discomfort alone could affect his numbers. Of course he hates Cosequin. But his being stuck in the ~330 range despite change in diet and increase in insulin makes me want to be sure nothing else is going on.
     
  11. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    @Sandi & Whisper re post 9
    making you nuts yet?
    Alert/following, Alert/following, Alert/following Too much time on my paws!
    nuts01.jpg
     
  12. Squeaky and KT (GA)

    Squeaky and KT (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Hi Laura!!!

    If the DM says 'selects', it's the gravy food and is high carb. RC Glycobalance is high carb and the Proplan DM dry is high carb. Those numbers aren't going to move down with any of those singly much less all together.
     
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  13. LauraJ

    LauraJ New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2018
    That's what I suspected, but the vet doesn't want to work with me unless I prove to him that he's wrong. I'm giving it until this weekend and then I'll do a curve. If his numbers are higher, the trial ends right then and there. So after Syd's trial, is there a brand/variety you would recommend? Keeping in mind that Syd turns his nose up at most paté wet food.
     
  14. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    ProPlan DM Savory Selects canned wet food is about 10% carbs as fed. The DM pate style wet food is about 6% carbs as fed. That DM data is from the ProPlan reference sheet that I read at my vet clinic. Many of us feed Friskies or Fancy Feast pates.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
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  15. Sandi & Whisper

    Sandi & Whisper Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    No concerns here, I like nuts. Cashews are my favorite :p
     
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  16. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    I like Pecans, I just took one away from you.
    You'll get it back tomorrow. :rolleyes:
     
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  17. Myagi and Heidi

    Myagi and Heidi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2017
    Laura, welcome to you and Syd! I hope all goes well with the new vet!. Not sure even if your curve shows some improvement that I'd want to keep working with a vet that sounds so contentious and inflexible. Don't forget - you've already said this isn't your first rodeo! Cat-Riding-a-Horse-1.jpg
     
  18. Lisa and Witn (GA)

    Lisa and Witn (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Laura, where do you live? (City, state, country only)

    We may have members near you that can give you recommendations for good vets in your area.
     
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  19. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    @Sandi & Whisper , just sent you a Pecan. This time you can keep it, I've got enough already so don't feel obliged. o_O
     
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  20. LauraJ

    LauraJ New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2018
    Hi Lisa
    I'm in Connecticut. I'm going back to my old vet on Jan. 25th (Dr Micinilio). He's much more current with veterinary standards of the century, he's an excellent diagnostician, and he's worked with me in the past. I won't badmouth his coworker, but I'll explain that I was uncomfortable with the other vet's recommendations (including telling me that Syd wouldn't live long with diabetes), and lay out the treatment I'd like to follow. Fingers crossed.
     
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  21. LauraJ

    LauraJ New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2018
    Do you have a recommendation about the percentage of carbs I should try to stay under?
     
  22. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
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  23. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Jul 7, 2016
    Hi Laura - welcome to the group (I was busy this week). Good suggestions above. I would certainly consider not going to that vet.

    Kudos to you for taking care of an old, blind, and diabetic kitteh. You must have a lot of patience and a huge heart to go with it.:bighug:
     
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  24. LauraJ

    LauraJ New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2018
    Hi Jeff - Thanks for the welcome. Syd is seeing a different vet on the 25th. Meanwhile, he's been on the vet diet since Monday so they can't accuse me of totally ignoring their advice. I'm going to run a curve tomorrow to see what effect the food has (I expect the numbers will be worse, but at least that will prove my case and I can go back to a healthier diet for him). On Sunday, I'm also going to start him on B12 shots.

    I love older kitties, the less- or un-adoptable ones. Too many people look right past them, but we have the ability to make their last years their best years. As for Syd, I want many many more years with him, which is why I'm being more belligerent about following suspicious and uninformed veterinary advice. Vets have a great ability of bullying their clients, even if they don't mean to, and I'm too easily intimidated. But the advice I've gotten here makes me feel so much more confident about speaking out and taking control, so thanks to you and everyone who's provided suggestions.
     
  25. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2016
    I agree with you about the vets. It seems odd they spend all that time at vet school and some of them come out without knowing diabetes in detail. I have learned a lot on this forum. Certainly about Acromegaly. And the help I got here basically saved Leo's life. Plus the information allowed me to verify opinions from the vet, just like you are doing now.

    That is just great there are people like you (and on this forum) who adopt older un-adoptable kittehs. Our kittehs' time will come in the future. We will adopt older kittehs too.

    As you end up staying on the forum, we usually coach people to move to the Main Health subforum, or to one of the insulin subforums.
     
  26. LauraJ

    LauraJ New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2018
    There is a veterinarian in Florida who used to write really great blogs, and some were fairly critical of her field. She said said that feline nutrition is woefully under-represented in vet school curriculum, and she believes that part of that is because companies like Hills, Royal Canin, etc. provide so many scholarships to vet students. The prescription food companies also hold annual conferences, thus wooing vets for the rest of their careers. There doesn't appear to be a lot of incentive for vets to become nutrition experts, except for the those like Dr Lisa who take it upon themselves. And even she admits how hard it is to get the real nutritional values from makers.

    I feel for you regarding acromegaly, which makes diabetes (and nearly everything) harder to treat and control.

    Once I've got my groove on, I'll move on to the appropriate forum. Thanks again.
     
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