Oreo may have bone cancer

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Justgin, Nov 3, 2017.

  1. Justgin

    Justgin Member

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    May 8, 2017
    The limp started about a week before he was diagnosed with diagnosed with diabetes. It lasted only a few days and went away. Then the limp came and went a few more times since then. Now he's limping all the time. It's his left back paw. The vet says diabetes has nothing to do with it. We've tried Cosequin and an NSAID. Neither did anything to help. Todays xrays show what looks like destruction of the bone in the left knee. The side view looks much better though. The vet is not ready to say it's cancer but said it could be. So we're going to have to see a specialist (who thankfully is in town) for a bone biopsy.

    Buprenorphine today and tomorrow for the pain. Hopefully the specialist can see him Monday. My poor baby. Any advice or words of encouragement would be helpful!
     
  2. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    I will keep Oreo in my prayers. Please keep us posted. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  3. Justgin

    Justgin Member

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    Thank you!
     
  4. Tracey&Jones

    Tracey&Jones Well-Known Member

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    Sending positive thoughts and prayers to you and Oreo.

    :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  5. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    Oh, poor Oreo. I hope they are able to make a determination and get it successfully treated.
     
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  6. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Sending positive energy to you and Oreo. :bighug::bighug:
     
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  7. Annette Dickerson

    Annette Dickerson New Member

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    Hoping Oreo's prognosis is good.
     
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  8. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to hear that. It's definitely not arthritis? If it is, ask about giving adequan shots.
     
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  9. Justgin

    Justgin Member

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    Thank you everyone. The vet gave me a CD with the films on it. If i can figure out how to transfer it to a post, I'll post them. I 'll ask about the adequan shots too, thanks. He said it did not look like arthritis. I really hope he's wrong. The specialist will either be calling me next week or conferring with my vet.
     
  10. Justgin

    Justgin Member

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    My vet just called. He said the specialist does not think it's arthritis :( but he won't say it's cancer just yet. He wants to biopsy first, then proceed from there. I really do not want to drag this out with so many vet visits, there have been too many already where nothing has gotten accomplished except pissing him off and making him afraid of me when I bend down to pet him that I might catch him and put him in his carrier. And each time he has come back from an exam limping more than before. This really makes me sad. Oreo is a feral cat. A very friendly one but it stresses him out to no end going to the vet. And his left knee hurts. :(

    While writing this, I just heard from the specialists' office. The secretary said they could examine him and take chest films the same day but would have to schedule him for the biopsy and then the surgery. That's too many visits still. I remember this same person I talked to today was very rude and heartless about 3 years ago when Nat started having a return of his seizures right after an ICU stay there. My mom was dying and I couldn't leave her to bring Nat in, yet this secretary would not even ask the Dr. about increasing his dose without seeing him first. So I increased his dose myself, a small amount, and that helped get his seizures under control. He didn't have a single seizure until the following January. Mom died a day and a half later.

    I really hate having to deal with this office again, but they are close in town. Oreo hates car rides and just being in the carrier in general so I have to do it. I think this Dr. is nice but I don't know if he is good. What should I do? I made a tentative appt for this Thursday.
     
  11. Justgin

    Justgin Member

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    I left out some details above and don't want you to think I was being irresponsible with Nat.

    His seizures started back about 4 days after he got out of ICU, which was near the end of June 2014. He was getting transdermal phenobarb when he came home from there and was doing fine. Then the seizures started again - grand mal just a day and a half before mom died. After the ER vet wouldn't advise anything but bringing him in while my mom lay dying and I couldn't leave, I got a hold of Nat's vet (on vacation) who advised I double his dose and see if that helped. If it did not, I would of course have to take him to the ER. Luckily the double dose did help, and he was seizure free for the next 6 months. Maybe there is a god?

    Maybe I didn't have to spell it out but did not want you to think I was treating him willy nilly.
     
  12. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Noah hates getting the oral BUPE so much it was emotionally painful to give it to him. If that day comes for you and/or there are stomach issues please remember that Noah gets transdermal BUPE and he's been on it for almost a year with no problems. It has to come from a compounding pharmacy (injection BUPE is a vet only thing in Canada) but can be made in almost any strength. It's a creamy paste that is applied to the inner ear. Just tag me if you want any further info.
    I hope all goes as well as can be expected. Love and hugs from all of us.
     
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  13. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I think I'm missing something here. Your post from September 1st talks about knee pain, possible arthritis and back scabs from a food allergy. Now x-rays show a bad left rear knee but only from one side. Was there any mention of blood work re T-cells/white blood cell count? How are they making a connection to cancer? Secondly I understand why they want a biopsy but where does surgery fit into this? I know a soft tissue needle biopsy can be done under local anesthetic in 15 minutes, I do not know how they would examine a bone/knee but you said "They could examine him and take chest films the same day but would have to schedule him for the biopsy and then the surgery." The surgery for what? Has the suspected bone cancer spread to his chest or is the knee a separate issue? I'm sorry to drag this out but I'm reading posts and replies from almost 10 weeks ago and it's late so I'm probably missing some details.
    I really do feel your pain about vet visits. Noah cannot be crated (this started when he was 2 years old) so he goes to the vet for life and death stuff, it's that bad. We wrap him in piddle pads and a beach towel and will run red lights if we have to because I think he'll have a cardiac in the car. We've also had a dog and 2 cats that were misdiagnosed when it came to cancer so frustration with vets and even oncologists is common here. Can Oreo be sedated before travelling? Our vet gave us Valium for our dogs fear of thunder and fireworks but would only give us Gravol for cats.
    Lastly, and I'm not being morbid, there comes a time in every animals life when either nothing more can be done or it's just cruel dragging them from vet to vet for no good reason. Our beautiful dog was diagnosed with cancer by a vet, a radiologist and finally an oncologist. They were ALL wrong, it was an ulcer and she lived almost another year until her dementia got too bad. It's a good thing they told us chemo and surgery were not options. (friggin' boneheads) I can't even talk about the two cats or I'll be crying for an hour. Noah has cardiomyopathy and an enlarged heart that has pushed through the cardiac sac and needed all his teeth pulled years ago but wouldn't survive the surgery. But he's still here and quietly gets his insulin twice a day.
    This my friend is what BUPE was intended for. Magic crystals and homeopathy don't work on pain like that. Noah knows who he is, where he is and gets down the stairs just fine. I even catch him eating kibble once in a while. If Oreo's pain is not due to cancer but just a really bad knee and/or arthritis and you think his life is worth living then let him live pain free. If I were you (and I'm not) I would go over your copy of Oreo's report word by word with the vet and make sure they know he has cancer as opposed to suspect (a nice way of saying a good guess) he has cancer. Then make sure he signs the report. As for the seizures I can't even go there. Does anyone else know why any cancer would be linked to a seizure? You and Oreo belong to each other, I hate to dump this in your lap but only you know what's right.
    Everybody else... Sorry for being negative but losing an animal to guesswork and the subsequent pain is not something I ever want to see repeated.
     
  14. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    I had Leo on bupe after a surgery this year. It worked well for him. He was diagnosed with small cell lymphoma - the only 100% way to diagnose that is with a biopsy. Otherwise it is guess work. Some cancers are different, but biopsy is usually definitive. Glad to hear that Oreo's seizures are gone.

    My Mom is gone too. There was good and bad about it. But you still miss them when they are gone.
     
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  15. Becky & Baby Girl Kitty

    Becky & Baby Girl Kitty Member

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    Just many special prayers for you!! If only we could all have great vets close by! I hope you find the answers & are at peace soon.
     
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  16. Justgin

    Justgin Member

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    Gosh I really do need to clarify. Sorry for the confusion but thanks for asking too. Thank you everyone for your support.

    While talking about Oreo, I had to mention my other kitty Nat in the conversation. He is another kitty entirely and only Nat has ever had seizures. Not Oreo. Oreo never had seizures.

    About Oreo, I noticed a slight limp in April about a week or two before his dx of diabetes. I had wondered if the two were related - limp vs diabetes. At first I THOUGHT the limp was on his right front side, but I was wrong.

    Years ago Oreo got into a fight with one of the others (I had 6 at the time) and when I got home I saw a bite wound in Oreo's right shoulder and a few spots of blood from his ear and he was holding up his right paw. He could walk on it but he limped. Oreo was an alpha cat and regularly tried to teach the others a lesson. However one of the others (I think it was Ned) cleaned Oreo's clock one day out in the garage while I was home. So I think maybe Oreo and Ned got into yet another fight that day while I was gone and came back seeing Oreo with a wound and limping.

    So this April when I saw the limp come back, I at first thought it was the right front because of what happened years ago. But over the past few months as this current limp worsened it became obvious it was his back left. Does that make sense now?

    He just had films done on his back legs last Thursday. The left knee looked porous, like there was bone missing. I'd try to post them here but I can't even see them myself on the DVD.

    I was just hoping that his visits could be consolidated as much as possible. What sounds good in your head doesn't make much sense when you type it out. That's why I posted here, to get some clarity.
     
  17. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I can't see why a scrap years ago would come back as a limp now unless there was some serious damage to ligaments, cartilage or nerves. You would have seen that slowly getting worse over time like my knees. Were any other joints x-rayed to compare them to the left knee? How old is Oreo?
    What symptoms started your vet down the cancer road? I've seen too many cases where no other diagnosis fits so cancer is used as a catch-all diagnosis. Depending on the cancer Oreo needs some basic blood work, x-rays and then a biopsy. I still don't understand where the chest surgery thing comes from. And surgeons just love to operate, it's what they do! You'll be better off doing as much research as possible first; symptoms concerning eating habits, mood, mobility and what his bloodwork should be. I use PetMD and that's where I found our dogs cancer symptoms mimicked those of a gastro intestinal cyst. It turns out that's exactly what she had. Go to your vet with a well thought out list of questions, especially the "If he has 'A' then why doesn't he have 'B'? I know Oreo hates travelling but if you can get this done in one shot it will be a lot easier on both of you. With our dog we were told to just "accept it and move on" and that I was grasping at straws but you have much more time to think this through than the vet. It's not the vet's fault that in the back of their mind they know the clock is ticking. They want to care but it's a business.
    What I said about BUPE. Noah is now a drug addict but so what? I have neuropathic pain and some days take enough Percocet to choke a horse. Do I want to be miserable and live to 100 or function like a human being and live to 90. I'm a special case because my liver and kidneys are 100%, I can hit baseballs opposite field, operate power tools and there's never been talk about my drivers license. Oreo isn't a textbook cat, none of them are. Maybe he doesn't need to be cut open for something that isn't there. You're his caregiver so put your foot down and expect real answers, not drama and guess work.
    This is where other members with real world experience come in. Never get snooty when you get corrected and be open to other possibilities. If Oreo has some 1 in a million condition (like me) look at it this way. Whatever the odds someone always wins the lottery right?
    Finally, I really do feel for you. We lost eight cats and my Mom in less than 3 years. I know it's tough but we're all here to help you get through this.
     
  18. Justgin

    Justgin Member

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    Oh geez, this is getting too complicated. I'm not going to explain any more than I did, but honestly where did you get "chest surgery thing"?? I never mentioned such a thing. Please go back and reread what I said before commenting. Thanks. I reserve the right to get snooty and correct anyone who relentlessly nitpicks or puts words in my mouth that were never said. In spite of that, thanks for your support Noah & me.

    And thank you everyone else for your love and support. For now I will go along with the plan to have him evaluated by the referral vet tomorrow afernoon. My vet isn't in today but I will see about getting something for nerves so Oreo can tolerate his visit tomorrow.
     
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  19. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, this is what concussions do to you. I personally can't stand having people misquote me and now I'm doing it to you. What does my signature say? "A terrible communicator, I always mean well." Sometimes meaning well isn't enough. I hope we're good.
    :banghead: :blackeye: :( :oops: :oops: :oops:
     
  20. Justgin

    Justgin Member

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    Ok we're fine. I don't really understand about the concussions, tbh, unless they were repeated ones you didn't have time to heal from in between. Did you have a stroke from these concussions?

    I've been thinking about the referral visit tomorrow. This vet has already seen Oreo's xrays from 1 week ago and given my vet his opinion. So if this vet only evaluates Oreo and says come back next week for a bone biopsy, I'm going to be FURIOUS!! It's hard on Oreo to go anywhere. It's hard on me as well. I'm not young and Oreo is not small. He's 17 pounds. Last Thursday I hurt my back getting him into the carrier to go see his regular vet for the xrays, so I want to ask this vet if I can bring Oreo in one morning NPO and let him evaluate him AND do the biopsy if he feels it's necessary. I know good and well that human doctors like to drag out appointments like vets do but that's just not going to happen here. If he refuses, I'm going to see if I can get another vet (the one he saw 2 weeks ago for a 2nd opinion) to do the biopsy.
     
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  21. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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    It's not about me but a quick explanation about concussions etc. They're cumulative, you never really heal. One piles up on another and another. I also had a brain aneurysm, like the bulge in a garden hose, that partially bled. That was fixed with a scope and I was home the next day. That's why I misread things and can't keep facts straight. But the human brain can perform incredible feats of self healing. It's also why I sometimes look like a smart-ass and can't find the right words, especially for people that don't know me.
    We have a guideline here not to scare away people from their vets even if we're right but these vets you're seeing are clearly lacking in compassion. My vet only has to see me dim the lights (migraines) and see tears welling up to know neither the cat nor I are doing well. There are medical things that have to be done but someone has to clear a block of time and give both of you a break in between the poking and prodding. Oreo is not a piece of meat to be dragged from vet to vet. Medicating him and waiting 30 minutes in a quiet room won't affect the results of a biopsy or x-ray. He can also look at the x-rays and biopsy results before you arrive, they don't need to show you what they see while Oreo gets more agitated by the minute. If it helps we wrap Noah in a big towel and even shade his eyes if we have to. And they don't need Oreo there to explain things to you. If it is cancer and there's no hope what harm can it do to get Oreo looped on drugs? The poor guy was born feral and trusts you but he's not a case study for your vet. Stand up for yours and Oreo's rights to a dignified life, no matter how long that is. @JeffJ administers chemo at home. I don't want to give you false hope but not every situation call for cats to be dragged kicking and screaming to a place they hate. And maybe it is just arthritis, keep a positive attitude.
    See what I mean about not finding the right words?
    :banghead: :coffee: :bighug: :bighug:
     
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  22. Justgin

    Justgin Member

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    Ok thanks for the explanation. I had a concussion when I was about 8 yrs old when I took a tumble down the steps. I ended up doing somersaults down the entire length of the stairs, lol. At age 11 I had a more serious concussion from a fall off a bike, went over the handlebars. That time I passed out and remained kind of dazed for about an hour or so. I was at my friend's house for a sleepover. Her dad was an eye doctor so he evaluated me and took me back home immediately, as I was fairly banged up and had a black eye, multiple abrasions on my arm and legs.

    That same night our next door neighbor who was an orthopedic surgeon came to our house to evaluate me and make sure I was ok. Doctors did home visits back then and I think they should now. Back in the 60's and 70's parents didn't take their kids to the ER for every little thing unless you broke a bone or were bleeding badly, so I never had a CT. I get agitated easily. I also don't communicate well. I get off track easily trying to thoroughly explain. But I do not know if this is because of those two falls or not. I had plenty of time to recover from one before the other happened.

    Back to Oreo. Just got off the phone with the referral clinic. After explaining again to the secretary, she asked him if the biopsy could be done the same day as the eval. and he said yes! So now his appt is next Tuesday morning. Since he is diabetic I will feed him and just bring him in as normal because they can't sedate him. I hate that I have to drop him off and leave him until the vet has time to examine and do the biopsy. I wanted to be there for that. He is calmer when I'm in the room, but it looks like this is as good as they will be able to do.
     
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  23. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes they can't have you with Oreo because of insurance purposes if there's a lot of sharp pointy things around. Another reason is that most people would be shocked at seeing their cat get shaved and then wear the Velcro hood so he can't bite the tech. I knew a woman who must have thought they put kitty on a floral print sofa, lit candles and the blood just magically appeared. She never went back. Maybe you can stay with Oreo in his in-between times and even let him out for a walk. Most vets have an isolation room so there's a thought. It's hard to believe they can't sedate him in any form. I had two 14 year old cats on a four hour flight and after a brief cardiac exam they were absolutely looped. That's an extreme example but the stress Oreo is under will take a year off his life. They can do it, they just don't want to be responsible if something happens.
    Concussions. Neurology is still largely a mystery and most ER departments don't want to drag a neurologist from Wing Z just to have you follow a flashlight and answer what day it is. Diagnosis is still just a rough guess and all they tell you is to take it easy for a week. When I crashed in the shower last year we went to the hospital that had all my neurological records. I clearly wasn't after drugs. She tapped my knee with a rubber hammer and suddenly we were in the parking lot, "What just happened?" What really happened was that I cracked 3 vertebrae and no one picked up on that until my family doctor sent me for x-rays. When my aneurysm bled, extremely painful, I was told I had a sinus infection. Our vet is closer than the hospital, next time I'll go there.
    If Oreo is so stressed you're going to have to put your foot down and make it clear it's unhealthy in the extreme to separate the two of you. They won't like breaking protocol so be prepared with a lunch, Oreos food and dish and maybe his favorite basket and treats. They must know by now you're not an idiot or a hysterical old woman. You're the one paying the bill and he's not patient zero of a pandemic.
     
  24. Justgin

    Justgin Member

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    I called to clarify what the girl told me this morning. They do plan to sedate him but they plan to wait until around 12 noon to do that and hopefully discharge him home after 3pm. They said to feed only half his meal, and then give his insulin. I'm thinking of just holding his insulin altogether because I only give 1.5 units now with a full meal. So I should assume 0.75 with a half meal, I suppose. He eats at 8 am, so hopefully 4 hours will be enough to clear his stomach. I hope he doesn't aspirate. Being a nurse of course I know all the things that could go wrong. And even if they let me stay with him I wouldn't be grossed out at any procedure. Maybe when I get there I can ask to stay with him. If nothing else I could just stay in the waiting area and inquire from time to time how he's doing.
     
  25. Noah & me (GA)

    Noah & me (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Let them know you're a nurse, it might help.
     
  26. Justgin

    Justgin Member

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    I will.
     
  27. jayla-n-Drevon

    jayla-n-Drevon Well-Known Member

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  28. Justgin

    Justgin Member

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    Met with the specialist this afternoon instead of this morning. Long story.

    He says he's almost certain Oreo has osteosarcoma. It'll take 10 days to get the results back from the biopsy.
     
  29. Tuxedo Mom

    Tuxedo Mom Well-Known Member

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    :bighug::bighug: AND

    [​IMG]
     
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  30. FurBabiesMama

    FurBabiesMama Well-Known Member

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    Sorry. :( :bighug:
     
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  31. JeffJ

    JeffJ Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to hear about the prognosis. The turnaround time on the biopsy sounds about right.
     
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  32. Tracey&Jones

    Tracey&Jones Well-Known Member

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    Prayers that it something that is treatable.
     
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  33. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry it's cancer. This really makes me nervous for my cat. Chuck developed a limp on his front leg or of nowhere. I thought it was neuropathy but it really hasn't gone away. Some days are worse than others. When I took him to the vet he didn't limp at all... Of course! They felt his legs and didn't feel any injuries but now I'm thinking we should probably get x-rays.
    I'll be thinking of you and Oreo. :bighug:
     
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  34. Justgin

    Justgin Member

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    Thanks y'all. I'm really sad, and I'm not sure it's really hit me yet. StephG I would go ahead with the xrays, the sooner the better. I keep getting reminded over and over that my gut intuition knows best. When I first had Oreo evaluated for the limp, he wouldn't limp for the vet either!! I wanted xrays done that day, but he said to wait and see if Cosequin would work. Nothing they tried worked, including buprenorphine. If I had it all to do over again, I would have had him xrayed in April when I first noticed the limp. It went away though, for a while.
     
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  35. Justgin

    Justgin Member

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    I took Oreo in for his procedure this morning and just now called for an update. Oreo's bone biopsy is finished now. He's sitting up and looking around, according to the tech. Still getting IV fluids and still groggy. Get to go pick him up in a few hours.
     
  36. Justgin

    Justgin Member

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    May 8, 2017
    He's back home now. He was ravenously hungry so he ate and ate and ate. Now he's resting. Every time I come near him to take off his IV bandage he moves away from me so I'll quit trying for now. I want him to rest. Should get the results on or after Nov 30.
     
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  37. Tracey&Jones

    Tracey&Jones Well-Known Member

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    Glad he is home and hungry!

    Now the hurry up and wait begins. :bighug:
     
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