Ottawa vet bills

Hi,
My cat Skinny just diagnosed with diabetes. Despite his name, he is overweight and 12 years old.

We have taken him to hospital over Xmas. And there they said it will take about 1000 dollars for the initial tests and insulin. I dont understand what this is for... We already had a bloodwork done which showed his diabetes was 24 (is this high?) what further tests do we need and why? Vet also told us he is likely to need 2 injections per day.
I am taking him to our own vet on Friday. And I will get him help. But I can't afford the 1000 dollars. I will need to get in debt for that!! I was hoping I would get some help from you guys. Is this bill realistic? What other tests shud I agree to? How much is insulin?
Also does it have to be injections? I am not sure if I can inject him. I know I sound silly but I can't even look when the vet does it. Let alone doing it twice a day! Are there other options?? Please help!! Skinny is my heart and soul. I cant come to think myself about a life without him

 

ok. i would ask the vet for a breakdown of what that $1,000 is supposed to be for.

my cat went in for a dental cleaning, and when they did the pre-op bloodwork they saw he had high glucose. that was all they did to determine my boy was diabetic. so i dont know what that 1K could be for at your vets.

there are different insulins, some pricier than others, but none are crazy expensive.

two injections a day is the norm. its terrifying to contemplate until you start doing it, get used to it, and then its really not a biggie. usually they're dosed in their scruff and they dont even feel it. hang on its going to be ok.

the only way you might not have to give him insulin shots is if 1. he actually doesnt have diabetes, which i'm assuming he does have it, or 2. if a change in his diet might be all he needs to get normal glucose levels. food can have a huge affect. so, what does skinny eat?

 

Is your vet also a used car salesman? Something's not right. We're on our second diabetic cat, the first needed a simple blood and urine test. The second peed on the exam table and our vet scooped some up, looked under a microscope and saw sugar crystals. For some reason some vets lose their marbles if you go to another vet, like your a traitor! We live in Canada so we got a meter for free, it's the test strips that cost a bundle. Our insulin is $29 a vial and syringes 100 for $30. Don't worry about injections. I get the kind of migraines that make you vomit and I've managed all right. We also do not use the syringes the vet charges too much for. That's a longer story, feel free to use the "start a conversation" option to contact me about that. It's like e-mail but just between us and we won't know each others real e-mail addresses. And.... you have come to the right place. No one here is going to laugh at you and no question is too stupid. There's a lot of members that have been here for years.

 

I see the title of your thread is "Ottawa Vet Bills". Are you in Ottawa, Ontario? If so, did you have to take your kitty to an emergency after hours clinic in Ottawa? I'm asking all this because I live in Ottawa and my regular vet works out of one of the main ER/ICU/after hours clinics here. My cat was diagnosed there in January of this year and I can tell you that it didn't cost me $1000 to get the insulin treatment under way.

What initial tests are they referring to? Did they tell you that your kitty would have to go in for a day to have blood glucose monitored on whatever they choose as the starting dose? I didn't have to do that. I tested my kitty at home after a week on insulin.

Different insulins are different in price. Many vets will start a cat on Lantus (glargine) insulin which can be sold to you in a small vial (3mL) that costs about $45 - $50. ProZinc is another insulin that's used and it is more expensive - about $125 per vial.

This is the norm. Cats metabolize insulin very fast so one dose a day wouldn't be enough to control blood glucose for 24 hours.

Yes, the best treatment for cats is injectable insulin. There are some oral meds but they don't work well. Many people here were terrified of needles and giving injections at first and very quickly learned to do it comfortably.

Other costs that you can expect:

• blood glucose testing kit - many people here use human meters because the test strips are much cheaper. Many vets will sell you a pet meter and it works well but its test strips are crazy expensive.
• syringes - they come in boxes of 100 and might be cheapest at the Walmart pharmacy. At the vet clinic or most other pharmacies they're about $25 per box.

Let us know the details after you've seen your vet: what insulin has been prescribed, what dose, whether you'll test blood glucose at home, etc.

I'm quite sure that the vet will provide a cost breakdown for all the tests and supplies if you ask for it. My vet provides an estimate beforehand if a treatment process is going to be expensive.

 

Thanks for the prompt response. Skinny has been trying to lose weight and prevent diabetes for a while. So he is already on diabetic wetfood. These are small cans and he has one in the morning. He then gets 1/4 cups calorie reduced dry food at 5 pm and a half a cup of same dry at 10pm.
So how much did you pay for the vet? And how about insulin?

 

Human insulins can be bought cheaper at a pharmacy. Ask your vet for a script.

In no time whatsoever, you'll be a pro at giving insulin. (The pills were a waste of valuable time and money for Rover.)

Home testing is imperative to lower vet costs.

 

i guess canada uses european measurements - 24 mmol is high glucose. to us in the states thats around 450mg/dl.

hate to harp on this some more, but which brand of canned diabetic cat food? believe it or not there is a prescription one my vet put me on which is actually high in carbs.

others are going to poo-poo that skinny is getting any dry at all, even reduced calorie. dry food isnt ideal for diabetics. the extremely low moisture works against a condition that is already dehydrating, and its always got too many carbs unless its a freeze dried 100%meat/organ specialty mix. and a cup a day of dry is a lot.

vet bloodwork was a couple hundred with the exam. i pay $60/month for our insulin, and we're not on the least expensive.

there is an insulin supplier up there in canada called mark's marine pharmacy. some people here buy from them, as its cheaper than usa sources.

 

Hi thank you so much for info! Yes I have had the diagnosis at Ottawa vet hospital on Xmas day. I had taken him for his paw which he could not stand on. Since then his paw healed itself and he is walking fine. But now we are left with diabetes. They recommended me to test for UA, BG, bloodwork and radiograph.

My husband is gonna be away for 3 weeks in March. He can do the injections when he is here. But I absolutely cant. I cant really explain this. I have a huge fear of injections. And I have passed out before just watching it on someone. I wonder if I can do drops while he is away and continue with injections after he is back.

I actually have a human glucose meter. I was diagnosed with gestational diabetes when I was pregnant. I hated every min of it when I was pregnant and now my worst nightmare came through anyways maybe we can use it for my kitty? I had to use it 4 times a day. How much does kitty need? And where do we get blood? In his paws?
And what would happen if I miss this step again when my hubby is away? Because even when I was pregnant I could not do it to myself. My husband got my blood for 4 months from my finger when I looked away and cried...

 

I am not too sure if I ever will be pro. I know many people here were hesitant of needles but I have a phobia. this is like the worst nightmare for me. My husband hopefully can do the injections as he is claiming he can but I do need a "backup" option if he can't. Especiallt since it is twice a day!
I will definitely ask for a perscription from vet. I already think my vet is over priced. Thank you

 

Our diet was created by the vet actually. Because he was over weight 24lb they told me he cannot be starved and he needs more calories than a normal cat.
Should I maybe give him 2 cans of wetfood until vet? BTW, our cans are smaller. One can is probably half the size of tuna cans

 

I'm not in Ottawa but where I'm at in Nova Scotia the vet charged around $500 for the day I took Boo in for diagnosis because of massive weight loss and excessive thirst. Boo's blood glucose then were high around 30. Your cat's level of 24 is also very high.

Its possible to treat the diabetes yourself with the help of others here if diabetes is the only problem. I assume Ontario may be the same as Nova Scotia whereby you don't need a prescription for lantus insulin.

Basically I paid about $73 at WalMart for a box of 100 blood glucose test strips for the Freestyle Lite meter. It takes very little in terms of a drop of blood for the test with this meter. The meter will get thrown in for free if you ask about it. I think a box of 100 BD usltrafine II 3/10ml syringes cost about $36 or so. I forget what the box of 100 lancets cost but you need those as well.

Testing for ketones also needs done sometimes and you can get those at Walmart where you dip the stick in urine you collect from the cat or you can use a meter similar to testing blood glucose. Basically you can test for ketones when you want to and don't need to catch the cat when in the litterbox. Those strips for a Freestyle Precision Neo meter(takes a large drop of blood)are about $25 for a box of 10 at Walmart and I think $22 at shoppers Drug mart. However to get a free m eter you probably need to buy a box of 100 blood glucose test strips. This meter also can test for blood glucose levels as well but it takes a much larger drop of blood than the Freestyle Lite meter so I much prefer using it. But you can still get a free Freestyle Precision Neo meter to test for ketones if you live in Canada by filling out a form at the companies website here: https://www.abbottdiabetescare.ca/

I got mine within a week of ordering.

So if you want to keep expenses down I'd go to WalMart and get 10ml vial of lantus(probably not necessary for prescription) for around $80 and keep it in refridgerator, mine has lasted 7 months now and still seems to be effective. Also get a box of 100 test strips for a meter and ask to get the meter for free. Mention its for a cat and what they might recommend. My pharmacist recommended the Freestyle Lite because it takes a very small drop, I'm happy with it.

also go to site: https://www.abbottdiabetescare.ca/ and get free Freestyle Precision Neo meter sent to you. It also came with ten free test strips for blood. None comes for testing ketones with it. So once you receive this in mail just goto WalMart or another pharmacy and get a box of 10.

Check around for prices as they differ considerably. 100 bg strips at Walmart for me were about $75, Lawtons I've purchased for $76 or $79 and Shoppers wanted about $100 I think or maybe it was $90/ I forget. The ketone strips at Walmart for the Neo meter were about $26 and about $22 at shoppers. I believe the dipping ketone test strips would cost you less.

The people here can get you testing a lot more effectively and safely than paying most vets for guidance.

 

Thank you soooo much! I definitely needed this support.

My vet finally called me back just now. The technician told me that we absolutely need a bloodwork to check all his organs and see if his liver is malfunctioning. She said it will cost 250 for the blood work and 72 for the consultation. She said this will be repeated in 1 week and then at 3 weeks. So in first month I am looking around 1100 if I am lucky (
She said insulin shots will be 80 dollars for 3 months. So vet bills kill it. Maybe I should go to another vet!!

@Kris & Teasel what do you think of this prices since you are in Ottawa and just paid these last year as well?

 

I sure hope so! I actually have a glucose meter and strips. But my vet just told me not to do it myself. She said you are going to hurt the cats ear and then we will have to treat that and it will cost too.
I am not too sure if I trust my vet Now...

Also she said there is a pill I can feed my cat for 3 weeks. I am also thinking of boarding him but it is also expensivr and not to mention more stresful to him! I wonder if there is anyone I can hire to give him shots. Oh man...

 

In terms of food, I feed my two cats about 6 to 7 cans of Fancy Feast pate's a day. so that's at least3 to 3.5 of those cans for Boo as he always eats his share and bullies his way to eating most of the other cats if I don't stand by and do security work. I usually use half a 5.5 oz can of friskies pates now, rather than Fancy Feast though.

Boo weighed 30 lbs shortly before he started looking sick, he was at 13.5 lbs when diagnosed this May. He's back to a lean mean 20 lbs now. I'm guessing he eats at least 12 oz a day, or about 4 fancy feast 3 oz cans of pate.

 

You won't hurt your cats ear. There are videos linked from somewhere in the help sections here. its actually quite easy for me anyway. Boo has very pink ears and I can easily see the vein that's referenced in any photos that show you where the sweet spot is. Basically between the vein and the edge of the ear. Most recommend I think 28 gauge lancets. The freestlye lite comes with a lancet device that you can set to 1-4 in terms of depth. Cold ears are a problem, so just remember to check for cold ears and if not warm enough you need to warm them first.

 

Here's a page for help with testing on ears.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/bg-test.htm

How big of a drop of blood does your meter say it requires. The Neo I have but only use for ketones requires 0.6 and the Freestyle Lite says it needs 0.3 but from my experience the Lite requires just a tiny drop and the Neo requires maybe 5 times more and not just twice as suggested by the 0.6 versus 0.3 requirements.

 

Actually it is cheaper in the long run to buy a box of 5 - 3ml pen refills and use them as vials. The expiry is usually a couple of years off and there will be considerably less chance that you will have any insulin waste. The initial cost is more because you are purchasing 15ml (1500 units)rather than 10ml (1000 units) but overall it comes out cheaper. I'd be a little dubious about insulin that has been open for 7 months even when stored in the fridge. You didn't say what insulin your vet intends to prescribe but guessing based on cost it's ProZinc and I don't know of anywhere other than through your vet to get that type. It comes in 10ml. vials and often results in a lot of waste if kitty only needs a small amount of insulin. Human insulin like Lantus or even Levemir can be far more cost effective.

If you let us know where you are located there may be a member in your vicinity who could recommend someone to help you while your husband is away or even to come help you themselves.

 

Vets will often want a full panel of bloodwork if they think there might be several things going on or if they want to rule out a variety of things. Sometimes a cat with diabetes will also have liver, kidney and/or pancreas problems that need to be treated separately. Diabetes is a complicated disease that can have many effects.

The full blood panel is usually in this price range. The vet consult fee can vary a bit from clinic to clinic but only by $10 or so.

I'm unclear about what you mean. Full blood panels aren't usually repeated this often.

If you mean a total of $80 for 3 months, that's only about $27 a month for insulin. I don't think that's expensive.

The first thing I was told by my vet at the Ottawa Veterinary Hospital was that I needed to learn to test BG myself. She said that taking my cat there every so often for a day of checking would be far too expensive. I had a separate appointment where I was taught to do injections and how to prick the ear to get a tiny drop of blood to test blood glucose.

That's probably the oral diabetes medication that I mentioned when I answered your first post. It's rarely very effective. The vet might have suggested it if you conveyed to him/her that you're terrified at the thought of needles and injections.

All this would increase the cost of treating your cat ++++++++++. The insulin, syringes and BG test strips are regular costs that continue over time but they're not that high. The place where you can save a LOT of money is by learning to test BG at home and give injections on your own.

Here's my take on it:

• Right now you're confused, frightened and overwhelmed by the diagnosis of diabetes. We understand because we've all been there. You'll have tons of support and help here any time you need it.
• You have a lot of fear associated with injections and needles. Many people came here feeling exactly the same way and if you put up another post asking for tips on how to overcome that, I'm sure you'll get good advice. I guarantee that if you face this head on, maybe with a friend or your husband beside you at first, you'll conquer this fear and will be able to do what you think is impossible for you right now. It's absolutely essential to have this skill to help Skinny. You can't rely on someone else to do it because there will be times when you're the only one there with your kitty. I know he means the world to you. Keep that in your mind as you work on this.
• There is a cost initially to properly diagnose diabetes and any other underlying problems. Diabetes can't be effectively treated if there are other issues going on at the same time. It's a whole body disease. There are unscrupulous vets out there but most are professionals who care about their patients and want to do what's best for them. We're lucky in Canada that our own medical care is covered so we have very little idea about the cost of professional medical services and treatments. When it comes to pets, you see what this costs in black and white.
• This disease is manageable and we can help you every step of the way if you're willing to take on the challenge.

 

If the vet expense situation is similar in Ottawa as it is around Halifax, then you can reduce big expense items by traveling an hour or more from city. For instance many in Halifax travel an hour to Truro or an hour and a half to New Glasgow.

 

That can certainly help. Sometimes, though, you need care sooner than later so it's good to have a relationship with a trusted clinic closer to home.

 

One thing we strongly recommend here is removing all dry food from your kitty's diet. All kibble except one or two brands that I don't think are available in Canada (or can only be shipped from the US at a very high cost) is far too high in carbs. The wet food doesn't have to be expensive prescription food. Grocery store types like Friskies or Fancy Feast pates (no sauce or gravy versions - too many carbs) are absolutely fine. Big way to save money.

Removing all dry food from the kitty's diet can have a major impact on blood glucose so it's best done before insulin is started. If you learn to test blood glucose at home you can see the effect of this dietary change. Another reason to learn to test at home. Some cats can be controlled with a low carb wet food diet alone but testing is needed to see if that's going to be true for Skinny.

I switched one of my non-diabetic cats to a low carb wet food only diet at the beginning of July and he's lost almost a kilogram so far.

 

Unless the initial bloodwork shows a problem, I don't see why they would do full panels week after week. They will only need to do a blood glucose reading (in house). Also, take a copy of whatever bloodwork you had done at the hospital with you.

 

Hi everyone,
I am so glad that I have written here. @Kris & Teasel @babyBoo @Red & Rover (GA)
You guys have been a great help and I cant thank you guys enough.
I donated kitty's dry food so he never gets it again. I went to go get fancy feast for him but they were 5 dollars for 4. I pay 28 dollars per 24 case for the Royal cannin diabetic food. I was gonna save 2.50 for the case. For this time I just got diabetic food because I could not find fancy feast classic. I only saw pate, grill and another one which I forgot the name of but was mixed with veggies. I am gonna check online and some pet stores to see if those are cheaper and if I can find the correct one. I just checked loblaws and shoppers for now...
I talked to vet technician again while I was buying our food from them and she said they strongly recommend the full blood work for all three that they will likely to perform within this month at 320 per cost. I am not sure if that is needed. I am also gonna take my human glucose meter there tomorrow so they can teach my husband how to check for his sugar. Technician was against it but I think vet might have another idea.
BTW I have 3 different settings of how much blood I can draw. I don't exactly know the numbers but I will research it tonite after 7 month old baby goes to sleep. I was so stressed for kitty, now baby is stressed and fuzzy because of me! What a Christmas we are having...
I am still terrified of needles. And I know you guys are all telling me that it will be okay but this is the most scary part for me. I found a cat hotel. They charge 15 bucks per night and have 2 hrs of playtime, bigger rooms, feed diet food and do the shots. Seemed like they were really experienced with diabetics cats. I think I am gonna leave my black bear there. I promised my husband that I will try to learn it. But I am not sure if I can. I just went through pregnancy and I passed out everytime they draw blood from me. I was diabetic myself and I could not even dare piercing my finger. I had a coworker help me with that at work and my husband at home. I know its stupid, but this is how I am
It is still a bit out of budget for now. Especially now that I am on mat leave. But worst comes worst I will put it to credit card and pay it off when I am back to work. Anything for the fury baby!
Happy holidays everyone. And thanks so much for all the encouragement. I think I am a bit more hopeful now. At least I stopped crying!

 

In Canada it's not called Fancy Feast Classic. Yes, those little cans are fairly expensive. I give Friskies to Teasel - pates only. They're much cheaper and are larger cans. Many people feed that to their diabetic kitties. Loblaws has PC brand low carb wet food (pates) that some Canadians use.

I still don't understand this. I would speak to the vet directly and ask for a complete printed document of what blood work they want to do and a cost breakdown. Also push to get a clear explanation of the reasons.

I'm not sure why the technician is telling you this. It's very easy to do. Does the technician get extra money for doing it if your cat is at the clinic for testing? Talk to the vet and tell (not ask!) him/her that you want to do this.

I think you mean that you can set the lancet to different depths to get blood. I don't use the trigger device to get blood because it makes a noise and I can't see where the needle is. I put the lancet needle into the trigger as a holder and then I freehand the poke. This lets me control where the needle goes and how deep and there's no noise to startle the cat.

I promise this will get to be routine for you. Right now the IDEA of doing it is scaring you. There are ways to practice before you try it on your kitty. I suggest you put up another post with a question mark asking for ways to learn and not be afraid. There are many people who were in this position at one time.

Is this because you have to go away for a while? It would be extremely expensive to do this every day.

He can help you at the beginning. Think of it as doing what you need for your much-loved kitty. And yes, you CAN do it!!

 

FF pates are what you want. They are called "Classics" in the US so that name is more common here but it's the same food. I'm not sure what FF would cost $5 for 4 cans but the pates are usually available at Walmart for a very reasonable cost often 68 cents a can. Pet Smart costs a bit more but they have sales every so often with good prices almost comparable to Walmart.

Another option for food is the Loblaws PC brand Meaty which is even more economical. Here is a Canadian food list you might find helpful. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...0KlRA2ZVTk_tYNVRaoG_3Dfy64/edit#gid=964479244

If I am understanding correctly you are talking about the lancing device that came with a glucometer. Those are depth settings. Often when starting out you need to set the depth higher and as time goes on and kitty grows more capillaries in their ears, you can back the depth down a bit more.

The early days can be very stressful but it does get so much easier in a short time. Your path may be a little bumpier due to the pointy objects involved but you can do this. We have faith in you! Now have faith in yourself!

 

The best price I get for fancy feast is at Sobey's usually 60 cents a piece for 5-6 or more. But the Friskies pate's in 5.5 oz are about 68 cents there, or about two meals for the price of one fancy feast. Walmart used to have fancy feast 10 for $6, not sure of today's price.

 

I can sort of relate to her feeling of never being able to use the syringe. My wife mentioned when we got kitties she hoped they never became diabetic because she wouldn't be able to dose. The day I took Boo to vet thinking he might have diabetes she said that if so we would need to talk about putting him down because she knew she couldn't dose him for sure now not only because of the fear of needles but as she acquired cancer recently she would never have the energy to even catch him if needed.

Also she had a butterfly installed for "breakthrough pain" injections of dilaudid and she was never able to use the syringe herself. Even completely out of breath and in severe pain she would wake me up to give the shot as she refused to do it herself.

I'm almost willing to guess that Skinny's mom never will get used to using a syringe either if her phobia is just as strong.

 

@Kris & Teasel @MrWorfMen's Mom @babyBoo
Thank you all for responses. I have taken kitty to the vet and we are already out of $550. But at least we found out kitty has diabetes and uti, but his kidney and liver are fine. I will need to take him back on Tuesday so we can start the insulin.
They have shaved his neck and his paw to draw blood. My hubby was inside with kitty and my little one screamed so much. I was outside with my infant son waiting for them to finish up with needles. But when I heard kitty cry, I passed out with my 7 mo son in my arms. Thank God this guy next to me helped us out and my baby was OK. They almost called 911. Emberrasing... Anyway, I am pretty certain I wont be able to do injections.

My husband will. And the only problem is when he is out of city for 3 weeks. I am gonna board kitty then. It is expensive but I am not gonna risk his life over My fear. That is the safest option.

I talked to vet about using glucometer. And he said that it is not very detailed. He basically refused to show how to use it to my husband. He told me, with that device I will learn "stressed level glucose" and since kitty will be stressed every time he is getting pinched, the results will be high and not trustworthy. Vet said he will perform the blood test 2 more times in 1 week and 3 weeks. After that it will be every 6 months and they dont really need to repeat it, or know the glucose levels.
By the way, kittys glucose level was 25 today

So far I paid 340 for examination and blood test. Another 150 for antibiotics for his Uti and 50 for a bag of diabetes dry food.
They changed kittys diet too. Now he gets a small can of Royal cannin diabetic food in the morning. 1/2 cup of dry food at 5 pm and another can in the evening. I am not sure why they are giving me dry food. I repeatedly asked for it and all I got was that this dry food is specific with no carbs and that it is good for kitty.
I got another appointment on Tuesday. Where I will get injections and husband will learn how to inject him. I am not too sure at this point if I should ask them about the fancy feast replacement or just do it without telling them...
My credit card bill is skyrocketed with holidays and bills and all. Since I am on mat leave, I won't be able to pay this out for a long time either.

Anyway, blood screening was done with 2 tubes of blood my husband told me. And they check glucose levels, kidney and liver malfunctioning. This is it. Oh they told me there are two types of glucose level they check. Apparently they could figure out how he was last two weeks... I felt more confused coming out of the vet. I am gonna post what our bill looks like in a second.
Next time I have been told it will be only one tube and only for glucose. Not sure if the price is any different. Gonna try taking pictures in next posts . Lets see if it will work.

 

Seriously, I would get another vet. My vet was helpful and encouraged home testing. Recommended web groups and two sessions with vet tech using meter. He shouldn't get any dry food at all, unless its that zero carb stuff you need to get in US. Blood tests are usually done from the ears. Unless your cat has some type of ear trouble. You use the glucometer with the cat, same as a human. Just that you prick sweet spot of ear instead of a finger.
A pharmacist can get you a meter for free with a 100 box of strips if your meter requires too much blood. What brand and model is yours anyway?

You don't actually need a vet involved for treating diabetes, There's no prescriptions required for anything in Nova Scotia anyway. There are plenty of youtube videos available to show you almost anything you need to know. Plenty of people here to guide you as well.

UTI may need a vet involved, I have no knowledge on that.

 

Vet bills

 

And here is my little one after his hard day. Just look how bad his neck is. And I need to do this twice more this month!!

 

But how would I know how much insulin we need to give? I mean this stuff can put him to shock and kill him

 

This is the Dry food. It does say it is low on starches. But there is some carbs in it

 

Well won't being at the vet be a "stress level reading". And after 1st 2 checks then every 6 months????? Sometimes I wonder if the doctors actually hear what they are saying.

 

That's where FDMB comes in. Advice based on years of actually doing this on a daily basis. Not just once every 6 months.

 

I hear what you are saying. I am just wondering if I am in a money trap. I am already worried about my fury one and to top it off after paying hundreds of dollars I am not sure if I am getting the correct treatement for him...
Ps. I never heard my cat more hurt and scared then today. His stress levels should have been over the moon. But the vet says with this detailed blood test they can differentiate between the stress levels and pure glucose levels. I never heard of a such thing...
But when I had gestational diabetes they also did a blood test and collected two tubes of blood rather than just using the glucometer. So thete must be some difference. Its just I never questioned it then... I wish I did

 

If your using lantus there are a lot of stcky posts to read to get started.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-glargine-levemir-detemir.9/

The SLGS ( start low go slow) method would be good to start with. If your cat is average size or better, it recommends 1 unit of U100 lantus insulin twice a day. Test at preshot and about +6 for estimated nadir(low BG occuring in cycle. and reduce on next dose immediately if under 90 is tested.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/lantus-levemir-start-low-go-slow-method-slgs.129446/

A lot of those top of list ingredients look high carb, I doubt that its actually lower than high card fancy feast gravy lovers, And the gravy lovers is used to increase BG fast if needed sometimes. But I don't no for sure, maybe its near zero but i highly doubt it.

 

All I can say is that I totally disagree with your vet about blood glucose testing and feeding dry food to a diabetic kitty. That is NOT what my vet said. She promotes low carb wet food only and owner doing blood glucose testing at home.

 

I am not really using anything now.. I have never hold insulin in my life. Even when I was diabetic... I just dieted and walked it off you know...
And today they took kitty in and took blood. We came home and they called us in a few hours. My husband rushed there to get his antibiotics and dry food before they closed down for three days. He got there so last minute they didnt even get his money yet. The 250 dollar bill was added to our next appointment.
So at this point I have to go back at least another time. My hubby will learn how to do the shots. And that is 75 bucks more right there. I dont expect anything else until another week. Then it will be 340 again...

 

Which vet are you going to? I am going to Britannia heights. Its close to bayshore mall as I live near by.
I wonder if I should try another vet... Kitty has been going to the same one over 5 years now but we didnt need much. Just our yearly vaccinations...

 

But I would seriously start asking around cat diabetes message boards(here and elsewhere), as well as people you know in the area that may recommend a good vet that recommends and works with home testers.

Also, goto a few pharmacies in your area with a notebook and ask them not only if they know of good vets for cat diabetes home testers, but what types of meters do their cat diabetes clients use, what type of insulin, syringes, lancets, ketone strips, they use. What are the prices involved. Strips will be one of the biggest expenses, so you want low cost per strip as well as low blood draw required.

My pharmacy at WalMart says they have quite a few cat diabetes customers. I imagine most of your pharmacies will be the same and quite helpful. So take a notebook with you to a few and post here on how you think you want to procede before you buy anything. You will likely get a lot more help yhan your vet. Usually someone here around the clock that can be of some help.

 

My vet is at the Ottawa Veterinary Hospital where you had to take your kitty on Christmas day. They are a regular vet hospital as well as a 24/7 emergency ICU practice. I've been a client there for 32 years.

 

So I already have contour next ez from Bayer. I have 200 strips or so already paid for from my gestational diabetrs days. It draws 0.6UL blood. And vet said it would work but it will be useless for us as he needs the detailed blood work....

 

I'm sorry if this seems rude but this is nonsense to me.

 

Well I should call them and ask about if they agree with these treatements I guess. But they are the ones who told me that I would need to do a series of tests in the first month and that it will cost me 1000 dollars or so initially. So far they havent told me anything different from my vet. Maybe with the exception of dry food...

 

I feel quite confused too believe me and I even took my glucometer with us today hoping we would learn how to do it at home

 

If all blood work was okay today, the only blood work needed in the near future is a blood glucose test - one, just like you or your husband will do at home, with a glucometre.

The longer term blood test is called a fructosamine test. This tells you what the glucose levels have been like (on average) over a period of a week or two. If home testing is done on a regular basis, there is no need for frequent fructosamine testing.

Prescription cat food can be returned to the vet. The company allows for that. The 2nd, 3rd, and 4th ingredients are carbs.

 

I opened it up, but they might still take it back... Sometimes my vet does.
I am so confused now. Are they trying to keep my cats glucose level high? Cause they told me to buy this today. I have given away my dry food so my cat never eats it. I was shocked but the package says diabetic food on it so I thought what do I know... I am just following what my vet suggest. And if u check in my earlier post they did do fructosamine test. Thanks for telling me what it is. So the other test geriatric test same as what we wud have done at home? Because that thing is 150. Plus the vet visit of 75. So it will save me 225 to do it at home!

 

It may be that they are taking into account your nervousness about testing and want to do lots of tests and appointments to make sure everything is good cat-wise. *trying to think of something positive about your vet*

If you want to spend less money, then your husband will have to learn to test and shot (and maybe you will get used to seeing it done and be more comfortable with it). During the testing and shooting, your cat might protest vocally. It's not a scream of pain, it's a protest. The cat will adjust (and will you).

The geriatric blood panel is for a general outlook on your cat. It has to be done at the vet's, and you had one done showing that there are no other problems with the cat at the moment. There is no need for another in a week or two. The vet might want to poke your cat's ear (or shaved spot) and take a good glucose reading on their own machine. That's it.

 

Opened food can be returned. "Cat won't eat it." Vets have an arrangement for returns with the food companies.

 

No, the geriatric blood test is one that's done on older cats to look at how the cat's body as a whole is doing. This is not a test you can do at home. Vets often do this to get a baseline idea of your older cat's health so they know whether it's diabetes alone that is the problem or whether there are other health issues as well. Other health issues can affect the treatment of the diabetes.

 

The correct treatment for diabetes is the correct food, insulin and most important home testing.

I understand your skepticism about doctors versus people who are not vets and you never met giving advice.

I was the same way. I read through this site and a lot of the different posts for days before I joined. After all the vet went to school. People here could be crazy cat people (no offense, but you all know the internet is full of craziness).

The night I joined Smokey was hypo and I didn't know it and was about to go to bed. I was just logging off and remembered someone said it was good to get a before bed check. Smokey didn't respond to popping of the food can lid, actually he hadn't moved in awhile. So I tested and wham symptomatic hypo. The people here (sorry I wish I could remember who you all were that night, but the posts don't go back the far) helped us get through the night AND without a hypo kit or car to get to ER (and I didn't even know where it was). It was late night no one open. And as we were only (I think) into hour 4 since injection, we had hours to get through. If not for these wonderful people knowing FD backwards, Smokey probably would not had survived.

Sometimes you have to smile at the vet and agree, but realize some things they tell you just don't make sense. You do need the doctors for other illness that will come along and they will.

Read through different posts, get a feel for what really goes on. You will be quite surprised.

 

Your meter will work, just needs a real good size blood drop. Sometimes its troubling to get a good small drop even if ears are cold. Ask your pharmacist about meters that only require 0.3 of a drop and the prices of the strips for a box of 100. Usually you can get its meter for free if you buy 100 strips. My meter is a Freestyle Lite, I like it but several members here quit using it because it reports the high numbers to low. Ask what else they have that takes the 0.3 drop and what the strip prices are?

Reading all those stickies in the lantus forums will be helpful, even if you decide on another insulin. Personally I think lantus has been good.

 

Agree here. My vet said to stop dry. I did cold turkey. Wasn't told to monitor. BIG MISTAKE.

 

The second test they're talking about is called a Fructosamine test.....and yes, it will give an average blood glucose over the past 2-3 weeks BUT an average is fairly useless because it can't tell you if your cat is going from 400 to 40 and back to 400 again in the same cycle

Again, you don't need your vets permission to do this!! After we got our script for insulin (which you don't need since you live in Canada) my own cat has never been back to the vet for her diabetes! I do what the people here told me to do until I learned enough to feel confident in my own decisions

And we've been at this dance for almost 4 years.....the only time China's gone to the vet was for dental work and when she was sick with an upper respiratory infection. ....Yes, the vet she saw knew she was diabetic, but I didn't ask for her opinion and when she gave it anyway, I nodded my head, took my cat and went home...and continued to do what the people here taught me to do

 

I just don't get it. When I took Smokey from my parents and went to Smokey's vet to get supplies because was coming with me out of state, his doctor didn't even make sure I knew how to give insulin. Luckily I did, but he didn't know that. Considering we were in emergency mode because Smokey hadn't received his insulin for months AND he knew we were leaving in a hour, they were make appointment for next week and we will go over everything. I'm not driving 8 hrs for that.

Called my vet from the car. He waited 5 hrs for us. Did complete blood panel. Shaved him down because of the entire matted body. Got vaccinations updated. Dewormed and flea treatment (slightly anemic from fleas), made sure I knew how to give insulin and read syringe. Everything in one 2 hr visit running past normal closing time. He never charged us for any of it. So I don't get why anyone has to go back in a few days to a week to learn. Is it because they are to booked to show you then??????

 

My diagnosis appointment lasted about three or four hours vet came back said its was likely diabetes but had to check with other vet there that was more experienced with diabetes. When she came back she had a paper with some instructions to help, including several cat message boards and that i would need to home test and give injections. she had a paper describing the insulin, syringes,to get at pharmacist. then brought in two vet techs that showed me how to give the shots. She said start with one unit, it should be quite safe for Boo as he is large and they start even their average cats on one unit. they had me give shots for a couple of days and then come back and a vet tech checked BG then a vet told me to go buy a meter at pharmacist and strips and come back next day and a vet tech would show me how to test.
That happened and they said do a curve in two weeks and call in results. By then I had learned quite a bit from this forum including to test a lot more frequently which would keep Boo safer and gather more information to help get a better dose using either the SLGS or TR methods advocated and documented here someplace.

That was the last I had to contact the vet for anything and Boo is doing very well. Not regulated or in remission but he was a big overweight (30 lb) cat that dropped to 13 lbs quickly because of diabetes. He's quickly bounced back to a healthy looking big cat at 20 lbs within 2 months.

 

@babyBoo @Woodsywife
See these kinda things make me think my vet is just after money.
I was in the vet for nearly half an hour. They took the blood for 20 min and I asked questions for 10 min. The technician and the vet together did not answer any of my questions! They kept telling me we do not know for sure that the kitty is diabetic and what they tested in the hospital could have been just stress... Technician kept telling me "you ask good questions but we do not have answers yet". I have been told to feed him as usual including dry food and then that the test results will be in on Tuesday.
We came home; and a few hours later vet called. Told me the cat is confirmed diabetic and has uti. Told me that I need to feed him 2 cans of wetfood and 1/2 cup dry food. It was 5:30 then. He said I should hurry up and get antibiotics and dry food before they closed down at 6. So my husband rushed there and I had no time to discuss anything.
Now all that discussion will happen on Tuesday. I also assume I will get my injections and they will teach how to give it to cat. So your 3-4 hrs is divided for us and of course they charge 72 dollar vet visit fee each time!
Not to mention I now have dry food to feed cat and no injections. And logic says I am just increasing his blood sugar levels and not decreasing it. And it feels crazy. You guys experiencing this before think its crazy. Yet I am so scared to do anything else because this could be life and death for my little one!
By the way my kitty dropped from 24 lb to 15 lb in 3 weeks.

 

here's one of many video's on how to inject cat.

 

I will make my husband watch it. Sorry I cant tell you enough how scared I am of needles. They terrify me!

 

Has the regular vet or the ER vet given you any of the BG reading numbers?

 

Yes. ER vet said 24. My vet said 25. I think it is mmol/L

 

Thanks. Canada operates with world numbers. Most of the numbers you see when you read other threads will be in US numbers. To find out how your cat compares, multiply by 18.

For example, 24 x 18 = 432

Once you get to the spreadsheet part, the numbers should convert automatically. Setting up a 2017 spreadsheet is something you can do beforehand. If you have difficulty, just yell. There are a couple of spreadsheet gurus.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

A notebook to keep track of everything right now would not go amiss either.

 

Yes it is scary. A UTI can cause elevated glucose and stress from being at vets can elevate it also. Since you haven't started insulin yet, you could try changing the food (no dry) first and low carb wet, from now until your visit. It can start to help kitty now.

 

I agree with woodsywife. Start the low carb canned. You might want to start testing, setting up the spreadsheet so everything is ready.

 

As a retired R.N., this is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Your vet is either totally out to lunch or he is picking your pocket BIG TIME! There is absolutely no way to determine how much glucose in the bloodstream is "normal" and how much is from stress. A lot of what he is suggesting in the way of bloodwork points to someone who is padding his/her pockets at your and your cat's expense.

Vets get precious little training on nutrition and most of it is provided by the food manufacturers so it's totally a marketing ploy. Then the vets sell the food in their offices marketed as Prescription food to make more money from markup when the ingredients are no better and often far inferior to many better retail brands. A glance at the label on that so called diabetic food stood my hair on end. Your cat is a carnivore. They do not need or thrive on Corn gluten, barley, wheat gluten, or soy protein. And the only reason they can label those foods as Prescription is because they do a bit more testing to produce paperwork for the priviledge of marketing it to vets but in reality, there are far better and more economical food choices available at your local pet stores.

In fairness to your vet, he/she may have wanted you to try the diet change to see if that brought the BG numbers down before starting insulin. This makes sense but then telling you to feed dry food seems to negate the point of doing so.

 

Just before my cat was diagnosed I took him to the vet for an an appointment where blood work had to be done because my cat wasn't feeling well and they had to find out what was going on. When those results showed he was diabetic, I had a separate one hour appointment a few days later where the need for a wet low carb food was discussed, I was shown how to inject, test blood glucose, and was given instructions on doing a blood glucose curve at home. They wanted this done 7 to 10 days later and I was to email the results to my vet. I left that appointment with pages of reference material and links to websites with good information.

 

Horse feathers!

The only time my Saoirse ever had tatty ears from getting her BG tested was when staff at the practice where she was first diagnosed ran curves for her at their offices - and that's because they were trying to draw samples from the wrong part of the ear!

I actually saw them performing one test: two of them were trying to hold her! Granted, Saoirse was a little more anxious than in a home setting but please? They they made a complete hames of trying to get a blood droplet and my poor girl was completely traumatised by the whole affair. (((Saoirse)))

If the testing is done in a similarly cackhanded way by the staff at your vet's practice I can understand her reservations about testing at home, but after acquiring a few simple skills a home caregiver would probably buy and sell them when it comes to testing technique.


Mogs
.

 

DITTO! My Menace came home from ER with a huge scab on her ear. Looked like they had used a harpoon on her ear despite stating , "she bleeds well" on the written report. She has scar tissue at that spot. The rest of her ears are as pristine as they were before her diagnosis because I use proper technique and don't try to rush the process.

 

@Critter Mom @MrWorfMen's Mom

They draw blood in from his neck and his paw. And they literally tortuted My little one. Not to mention now he is sore and cold on those spots since they shaved his neck and paw.

 

Louie is currently under the care of the Feline Diabetes Remission Clinic at the Royal Veterinary College in London, they are recognised as one of the leading expert centres in feline diabetes in the world. Here's what they did when I took Louie to see them 1 week after diagnosis Dec 7th.

1) took him off dry food and put him on Purina DM wet food. Dry food is banned.
2) changed his insulin type
3) did every blood test he needs
4) showed me how to use a glucometer and test him
5) advised me to start filling in the spreadsheet on this message board
6) told me it was imperative for me to test at home
7) showed me how to plot his curve using their free cellphone app

since then he has been diagnosed with acromegaly but that was something they picked up straight away and tested for because of their suspicions (further proof they absolutely know what they are doing). He is going for a CT scan on 5th January to look at his tumour with a view to having it removed. They have said they DO NOT need to do bloods again because the bloods they have are perfectly adequate. I have shared my spreadsheet with the vet who is looking after him at the RVC and also his curves. She emails me with advice regarding numbers, curves and any changes in insulin. She is requesting I do my own testing as and when I feel necessary but to plot a curve at least once a week. She does not need to see me, in fact she's gone to Slovakia for Christmas and New Year so is advising me from their. If it wasn't for the acromegaly I would not necessarily need to see her at all.

What I'm trying to say is that is how one of the worlds leading experts on feline diabetes sees how the standard treatment and testing should be. I would seriously think about changing you vets, either they are not confident enough in their abilities to treat Skinny or they are after your money.

 

Seems like I am the only one who is going through re tests a few times!
I have another appointment with them on Tuesday. I will go through these with them and try to come up with a reasonable treatement for skinny. If it doesn't work out I will definitely need to changr my vet. This is becoming too much!

 

Just a thought. Is there a reliable neighbour or a friend close by that could go in with you and your husband for the appointment? Initially, it would be good to have someone close by who is willing to help out on a regular basis with the testing and the injections when your husband can't.

 

I'll never get this although I have to admit, my girl is pretty laid back in the big scheme of things when at the vet's. They take blood from her leg and no shaving is required. She protests being held in an undignified position but certainly doesn't sound like she is being tortured. My old guy on the other hand is a red flag cat. He climbs the walls and they usually take him to the back to get blood and I have heard him yowl too if he has not been sedated but again he has NEVER been shaved and he is a long haired cat! I'd be looking for another vet ASAP if I were you. It sounds to me like the folks you are seeing are money hungry, rushing patients through and padding the bills to boot IMHO.

 

I'm sorry, but I didn't read this whole thread. However, I too was always afraid of needles and injections. The first week that I had to give insulin injections to Leo - that was very challenging. But over time, I overcame the phobia, and now it is just part of our daily procedure. I hope you can become used to it too.