our kitty Zoe

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Grimreefer, May 11, 2012.

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  1. Grimreefer

    Grimreefer Member

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    May 7, 2012
    Our kitty Zoe will be starting to get her shots to help with her high BG thanks to DCIN :D .
    will be starting insulin and the vet suggested 1 unit BID (twice per day).
    her vet said we should put her on a hard food diet.

    i have tested her numbers a few times so far and she is averaging around 440.
     
  2. MommaOfMuse

    MommaOfMuse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Good starting dose...bad diet choice. The best diet for a diabetic kitty is a diet of low carb/high protein canned cat food. All dry is too high in carbs for a diabetic, and you don't need the expensive prescription stuff either....I have 3 diabetic cats and 11 non-diabetics, everyone here eats exactly what my diabetics eats, just good old fashioned Friskies Pate style canned food. Others here feed Fancy Feast Classics, 9-lives pate style, Evo, Wellness or Merrick there is a chart here to help you pick an proper diet for Zoe Binky's lists you will want to stay under 10% carbs and most of us strive for under 7-8% carbs (third column). This diet has one of my diabetics already in remission and off insulin altogether, one down to a scant .2u on insulin and thelast one who I just adopted getting beautiful numbers.

    Mel, Maxwell, Musette, Autumn & The Fur Gang
     
  3. Blue

    Blue Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Get rid of the dry food! My cat Shadoe could be in the 200s but if she got even 3 little pieces of dry food, her numbers would jump into the 400s.

    That dry food is horrible for diabetics. Just feed wet low carb foods like fancy feast or friskies pates, no grilled or gravy varieties, and also the ones Mel listed.

    Were you feeding dry food before, or just started on the vet's rec, or are you feeding only wet?
     
  4. Grimreefer

    Grimreefer Member

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    May 7, 2012
    the wife would keep a nice sized bowl over flowing with food 24/7. i had been telling her for some time this was not good for our 2 kittys. so i am now taking over the feeding of them. a combo of dry mornings and wet nights
     
  5. MyprettyZoe

    MyprettyZoe New Member

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    May 11, 2012
    I was feeding a half a can of soft food in the AM & the other have in the PM. I just always made sure they had hard food available. confused_cat
     
  6. Doug N Libby

    Doug N Libby Well-Known Member

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    Jan 2, 2012
    HAPPY to hear Zoe will be starting insulin!! Good job on successfully testing, too. Have to agree about ditching the dry stuff. Even without insulin, Hershey's appearance changed drastically just from the food change.

    Sorry if you said and I forgot, but what kind of insulin will y'all be using?

    Libby (and Hershey, too!)
     
  7. Grimreefer

    Grimreefer Member

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    May 7, 2012
    so yippy!!! we got our care package today with lots of cool stuff in it.

    its been about 6 hours from her eating in the morning and i gave her 1 unit of lantus. waited 30m and tested Zoe at 423.

    edit- talk about a pita getting the little needle in the pen thingy and getting 1 tiny unit out, bah.
     
  8. Julia & Bandit (GA)

    Julia & Bandit (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Did you get rid of the dry food? It will keep her blood sugar high and make it difficult for you to regulate her even if you're only feeding it half the time. It's like giving a diabetic child sugary cereal for half their meals instead of all their meals--any continuous feeding of inappropriate foods for a diabetic will still cause problems.

    Some people free-feed canned food if they want their cat to have access to food 24/7. You just add some water so it doesn't dry out. Bandit is a gobbler so I can't do this--but it is also perfectly fine if your cat doesn't have access to food 24/7! You just feed in small, frequent meals, and the cats don't beg for food except right before meal time. I feed Bandit 4 times a day, and that's the magic number where he won't beg. If someone won't be home to feed that often, you can freeze the food and leave it out or put the frozen portion an an auto feeder like this or this.

    Your cats will not starve by not having 24/7 access to food. They may beg at first, but after a week or so they will adjust to the new routine and be fine with it.

    Remember, getting rid of the dry food can cause blood sugar to drop by 100-300 points immediately, and sometimes cats don't even need any more insulin just from the food change alone, so it's very important that you're testing as you remove the food, or a dangerous hypoglycemic incident can occur if you're not testing to see how much the insulin needs to be reduced.

    The very high remission rate with Lantus is dependent on two things--that the cat is on a low carb, canned diet, and that you are making dose adjustments via home testing. Dry food seems convenient, but when you consider all the headaches and problems it's going to give you in the future, it's really far less convenient for you in the long run.
     
  9. Grimreefer

    Grimreefer Member

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    May 7, 2012
    tested this morning at 498... turns out wife was sneaking food to her today.
     
  10. Definitely don't want (or need) to be sneaking food. If you can ditch all the dry food, it's perfectly fine to feed her more canned during the day. With insulin on a 12 hour dose schedule, portion size and meal timing can do a great deal in helping to regulate her numbers.
    How much does Zoe weigh, and is her weight now what you would consider her "ideal" weight?

    Are you getting any tests in between the two shots?
    If that is possible, it will really help in determining if the dose is right or needs to be adjusted eventually. Has anyone talked to you about setting up a spreadsheet for her BG readings?

    Carl
     
  11. arozeboom

    arozeboom Well-Known Member

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    Dec 29, 2011
    My husband and I are convinced that the Purina One Maturity Formula dry food the original vet recommended that we fed Ruby is what caused the diabetes to kick in. 4 months of being off of dry food and now eating only canned and she's off of insulin for now. It wasn't a seamless switch to canned. We went thru over a dozen brand and flavor combinations before we found ones that both Ruby and Midgie will eat. Ru is pretty carb sensitive so I stick with under 4% for her. The common recommendations are to stay under 10% - 7%.

    You're still working thru the early stages of this. It does get easier.
     
  12. Grimreefer

    Grimreefer Member

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    May 7, 2012
    And a quick test at 413 and 1unit. she was not soo wiggly this morning. and it is much easier getting the unit set up. i was considering doing a mid day test. might as well start today. i will need to call the vet on her weight info :p well imo she could be in better shape.. the wife says she is just fine.
    ya food. #1 thing price. #2 thing will both the kittys eat it. #3 thing healthy. i know but when #1 is price thats the order.
     
  13. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Until I got it down, I printed Janet and Binky's list off and took it to the store with me each time. If you are looking for inexpensive, try Sophisticats and Friskies. Just be sure to pick the low carb flavors.

    Any dry is cheaper until you factor in the meter and strips and insulin that is required when they become diabetic. :mrgreen:
     
  14. arozeboom

    arozeboom Well-Known Member

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    Dec 29, 2011
    Our girls decided they preferred Fancy Feast over everything else, so the price isn't horrible.
     
  15. Doug N Libby

    Doug N Libby Well-Known Member

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    Jan 2, 2012
    Hershey eats Wellness. We buy the big (12.5 oz) cans online - delivery (no shipping charge) to the house also saves us the almost $4/gal gas. Oreo eats Friskies Pate' that we found to be cheaper at Walmart. Buy the big cans of that, too, but that size is only in a couple of flavors.

    So, the Wellness comes to ~$2.33/can and the Friskies is ~$.50 can for smaller can and $.94 for larger can. We feed ours at the same time, side by side but take up Oreo's food when he finished because his averages 8% carbs and we keep Hershey's under 6% carbs.

    Libby (and Hershey, too!)
     
  16. PeterDevonMocha

    PeterDevonMocha Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    mocha eats special kitty from wal mart .. she loves the turkey and giblet flavor. It is .43 a can for 5.5 oz .. she eats just under two cans a day ..
     
  17. Julia & Bandit (GA)

    Julia & Bandit (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    While dry food appears to be cheaper, it's actually not. There are added costs to it that you need to factor in.

    1. Extra kitty litter. Cats on a canned diet have stools less than half the size than cats on dry foods containing corn and grains--that's because while they may be eating the dry food, their bodies can't use many of the filler ingredients so they just poop them right out. Cats on a canned diet will also eat less food for the same reason.

    2. Insulin and strip cost. A well regulated cat uses less insulin, and generally requires less testing. A cat in remission doesn't need insulin at all. The large majority of cats on a low canned diet go into remission once the diet is changed and if you're dosing Lantus based on your daily home test results. I can tell you form personal experience that it is FAR cheaper to have a cat in remission, with no insulin expense and testing only once or twice a month.

    3. Future vet bills. If you continue to feed the dry, not only are you risking future complications from the diabetes, but you're also putting both cats at risk for other dry-food related problems like kidney disease and urinary tract disease.

    If you get something like the grain free flavors of Special Kitty from Walmart or Grreat Choice from Petsmart in the large, 13 oz cans, it's not very expensive. Both are about 70 cents a can, or 5 cents an oz. An average sized female will eat about 4-6 oz a day. With two cats, that turns out to be about 50 cents a day, or $3.50 a week. When you factor in the additional savings in insulin, test strips, kitty litter, and vet bills--you will find you're spending WAY less feeding canned only.

    So taking all this into account, it would be good to sit down and figure out how much you're actually spending on dry food.
     
  18. MommaOfMuse

    MommaOfMuse Well-Known Member

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    May 26, 2010
    There are 14 cats here, 3 of which are diabetics...all my cats eat exactly what my diabetics eat...Just good old fashioned Friskies pate (Only thing the all agree is edible). Out of my 3 diabetics, 1 is in remission, 1 is flirting with it, and the last one was only adopted as a diabetic a few weeks ago and she is already becoming well regulated and has earned her first dose reduction.

    Then there are my other 11 cats...the overweight ones..lost weight, the skinny minis gained weight, all have beautiful shiny and sleek coats. The litter expense has gone way down (less junk food in less waste out). My one with food allergies that was on daily pred has been weaned off the pred and looks awesome for a 17 year old cat. And my guy prone to urinary crystals hasn't had them since the diet switch.

    When we adopted our last sugarcat Autumn I was told that she was a dry food addict so I picked up my first bag of dry in 2 years (since we adopted our first diabetic) when she proved that she absolutely loved her new canned diet and didn't need a slow transistion off the dry, I decided to get rid of it by feeding it to the non-diabetics. What a mistake, my allergic guy started to rip his face apart again...the litter boxes reeked and were full mere hours after cleaning them so I went from cleaning 16 litter boxes twice a day to 4 times a day, and going through litter like it was water. Yes, we spend a lot of money on catfood here but we have a lot of cats, and I don't spend near what I was buying dry & litter to keep up with the dry diet eliminations as well as since we switched the diet I've spent far less at the vet's with sick cats. Not to mention the reduction in cost of insulin and syringes, test strips etc because 1 diabetic is getting 1u bid and 1 is getting a tiny microdose as well as the 3rd one has been off insulin for 2 years this coming Nov. 1st.


    Mel, Maxwell, Musette, Autumn & The Fur Gang
     
  19. Grimreefer

    Grimreefer Member

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    May 7, 2012
    did a afternoon test just now getting around to posting it. 200

    special kitty is a no go. its from walmart people!! the dog food killed dogs. and so the wife will not feed it to her kittys.
     
  20. So that was how many hours post shot? Can you lay it out like this (until we can set you up with a spreadsheet)?

    AMPS (meter reading, dose amount) 498 1.0u
    +6 (or how ever many hours since the shot, meter reading) 200
    PMPS (meter reading, dose amount ) ???

    That's just a format that will help up wrap our heads around the numbers :smile:

    Carl
     
  21. Grimreefer

    Grimreefer Member

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    May 7, 2012
    568 1u
    doing 12h for shots.
    i post as soon as we do it.
     
  22. Grimreefer

    Grimreefer Member

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    May 7, 2012
  23. How many days has she been on the Lantus now?

    Carl
     
  24. Ry & Scooter

    Ry & Scooter Member

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    Dec 10, 2011
    I know the Menu pet foods recall was scary. That mostly affected gravy and sauce-type foods. The regular canned Special Kitty was not recalled, however the high carb gravy pouches were.

    The FDA's 2012 Recalls and Safety Alerts will show you on how many manufacturers have issued recalls for whatever reason already this year. Some of them are even considered good food manufacturers, ie. Solid Gold, Wellpet, and Canidae. Some pet food manufacturers even share manufacturing facilities, or work contract with each other to manufacture the food.

    There is a contamination risk associated with every brand of food, not just the stuff Walmart sells.

    Friskies and Fancy Feast are manufactured by Nestlé Purina Petcare Company. Maybe those would be a better option if you're still uncomfortable?
     
  25. Grimreefer

    Grimreefer Member

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    May 7, 2012
    395 1u

    5 days.
     
  26. Grimreefer

    Grimreefer Member

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    May 7, 2012
    518 1u
    12h posting a bit late net has been up and down.

    started giving her b12 the other day.. only way i know how is like a dog pop it in the mouth and keep it in there till she swallows/eats it.
     
  27. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Can you crush the mb12 and mix it in her food? Thats what I did with Trouble and he never knew the difference. Forcing a kitty to swallow a pill could stress her out and that could raise her bg numbers. Swallowing a dry pill could also get stuck. Are you able to syringe some water in her mouth to help the pill go down?
    Thank you so much for being proactive with your kitties health needs.
    jeanne
     
  28. Grimreefer

    Grimreefer Member

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    May 7, 2012
    2 cats not able to feed them seperatly and keep sane.. well as little sanity as we have left
     
  29. Grimreefer

    Grimreefer Member

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    May 7, 2012
  30. Ry & Scooter

    Ry & Scooter Member

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    Dec 10, 2011
    Why did you go straight from 1u to 2u? That is DOUBLE the insulin dose. We generally recommend increasing by .25u increments at a time. Have you done any mid-cycle tests? To see the full picture on how the insulin is working you need to get at least one test around the nadir time, or 4-6 hrs after each shot.
     
  31. Grimreefer

    Grimreefer Member

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    May 7, 2012
    91
    goodness but that was a damn big drop. had wife read long email. .25 huh....
     
  32. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Please test your kitty again in 10-15 minuets. That is a huge drop kitty is likely to go lower.
     
  33. Grimreefer

    Grimreefer Member

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    May 7, 2012
    181 she is just enjoying the sun.
     
  34. jt and trouble (GA)

    jt and trouble (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    ok sorry I panicked I would rather err on the side of caution than say nothing. My apologies.
    jeanne
     
  35. Venita

    Venita Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    It really does help all of us to understand and assist your care of Zoe if you use the "+ hour" of "AMPS/PMPS (meaning +12 hours)" conventions.

    This is a global community. What might be 8:30 am/pm to you may be 10:30am/pm or 12:30 pm/am, or 4:30 pm/am to others of us. And other people asking for help have other local times.

    Most of us set this clock's internal clock for the posts to our local time.

    Please help us help you and Zoe by giving us her shot and test times using the global clock conventions.
     
  36. Do your syringes have half-unit marks on the scales? If not, they are available. If so, that will help you to eyeball a dose adjustment of .5 or .25 units.
    Glad to see Zoe's number came back up some.

    Carl
     
  37. Grimreefer

    Grimreefer Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2012
    344 1u

    nope its a thin little 30u thing with 1u marks and big 5 count numbers
     
  38. Grimreefer

    Grimreefer Member

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    May 7, 2012
    387 1u

    feeding is over to fancy feast pate with some dry to nibble
     
  39. Numbers are better in that you aren't seeing 400s and 500s mixed in with 90s or 100s, so the 1u dose on a consistent basis are better than mixing 1u and 2u. Do you think you can eyeball in .25 or .5 unit increments with those syringes?

    Can you get a mid-day test about 6 hours after the morning shot today?

    Carl
     
  40. Grimreefer

    Grimreefer Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2012
    312 1.25u

    well we had a fun time trying to get a midday down today... did not want to bleed dont blame her we keep using the same ear as the other one is dark cant hit the vein.
     
  41. Ry & Scooter

    Ry & Scooter Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    Hmm... you are not supposed to be aiming for the vein. You are aiming for the "sweet spot" between the vein and the edge of the ear. If you hit the vein, it bleeds.. a LOT. And you will probably end up covered in it when they flick their ears. I know I have. :lol: And always make sure you are warming it up beforehand.

    Here are some pics that may help:

    Laur and Danny's Famous Photo of "The Sweet Spot " http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m267 ... etspot.jpg
    Another great closeup of Danny's famous ear http://s196.photobucket.com/albums/aa31 ... 6-6-09.jpg
    Both of Danny's Ears - Comparison Picture http://s196.photobucket.com/albums/aa31 ... 6-6-09.jpg
     
  42. Grimreefer

    Grimreefer Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2012
    369 1.25u

    oh well now you are right at times we get blood all over at others we have to retest 2 or 3 times from too little. ya do a rubbing of the ears she likes it and it warms it up and get it flowing.
     
  43. Grimreefer

    Grimreefer Member

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    May 7, 2012
    172

    the tip area works well at least it did just now.
     
  44. Good deal. It seems that it gets easier as time goes by. Either their ears "learn to bleed" better, or we get better at testing. I would stick with the 1.25 unit dose for 5-7 days, and get mid-cycle tests as you can. Eventually we'll see a pattern in the numbers that will indicate if the dose needs to go up or down.
    Zoe's numbers at this point don't look terrible. Does she seem to feel any better?
    Carl
     
  45. MyprettyZoe

    MyprettyZoe New Member

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    May 11, 2012
    At times she does seem to feel better & at other I see her legs shake. I worry that she won't be there in the morning.
     
  46. Grimreefer

    Grimreefer Member

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    May 7, 2012
    139 1.25u
     
  47. Holy cow... any way you can test if you happen to be online? That number was unexpectedly low for a preshot number. Zoe might be going lower overnight, and checking to see if she's dropped in the past three hours would be a great thing.

    Carl
     
  48. Grimreefer

    Grimreefer Member

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    May 7, 2012
    398 1.2u
     
  49. Grimreefer

    Grimreefer Member

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    May 7, 2012
    i am able to test around 3 hours the evening as well.
     
  50. MommaOfMuse

    MommaOfMuse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Something that is jumping out at me right now that no one seems to be mentioning...Zoe is on Lantus right?

    What I am seeing here is that you keep changing up her dose based on her preshot readings...this NOT how Lantus works the best it needs a consistant dose given 12 hours apart and held for several days for the "shed' to build up, dose changes are based on the LOWEST part of the cycle usually around 6 hours after the shot is given.

    We also advise with newbies that under 200 either you don't given insulin or you stall without feeding and retest in 30 minutes to see if they are high enough to given insulin in the first place.

    I would also help us help you and Zoe if you could give us numbers in this format

    amps (reading before morning shot)
    +1
    +2
    +3
    +4
    etc which is how many hours passed since the shot was given..we have folks all over the world here so it is hard for us to tell when exactly you got those readings in regards to when the shot was given.

    Example Carl is in SC (Eastern Standard time) & I'm in Nebraska (Central Standard TIme) and then there is Ann who is in Denmark, but if we all use the same format I just gave you above we can all speak the same language in regards to timing of readings and shots.

    Mel, Maxwell, Musette, Autumn & The Fur Gang
     
  51. I created a SS for Zoe's numbers and you can see the link below my name. I plugged in all the data you have posted in this thread. If you have any numbers other than what you have posted, just let me know and I can add them. As you post more, I'll update it. Eventually you could do this yourself, but for now, I have no problem keeping up with it.

    Carl
     
  52. Jennifer and Spot (GA)

    Jennifer and Spot (GA) Member

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    Apr 4, 2012
    Gosh Carl, you are so nice!
     
  53. Grimreefer

    Grimreefer Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2012
    439 1.25
     
  54. Grimreefer

    Grimreefer Member

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    May 7, 2012
  55. Grimreefer

    Grimreefer Member

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    May 7, 2012
    519 1.2u

    i think she was nibbling dry all night.
     
  56. MyprettyZoe

    MyprettyZoe New Member

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    May 11, 2012
    Carl - can you email me the excel sheet you are using and I'll pop Zoe's numbers into it as we test???
    Thanks, Jennie
     
  57. Grimreefer

    Grimreefer Member

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    May 7, 2012
  58. Jennie
    yes, i'll email it to you after work tonite.
    carl
     
  59. Grimreefer

    Grimreefer Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2012
    441 1.5u
     
  60. Jennifer & Saima (GA)

    Jennifer & Saima (GA) Member

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    Aug 16, 2011
    Just to make sure I am reading her SS right--did you shoot a 61 on Saturday evening and then not test afterward? That seems really low to me but maybe you are getting advice from others, and I am certainly not qualified to give it. I just wanted to bring that up and bump this in case anyone more experienced has input. You are starting to get lower numbers so it seems to me (again, I'm not trying to tell you what to do) that I typically see people testing much more if cats' numbers are low, and maybe not shooting depending on the #. Hypos are potentially extremely dangerous.
     
  61. Great point, Jennifer. There were a couple of low preshots (two nights in a row, the green and the blue numbers) that would be considered "low" to shoot a dose on. Not saying that you wouldn't shoot lower numbers, but normally you would want to make sure of a couple of things.
    1 - try to make sure that the number is on the way up before giving the shot. You can stall for 15-30 minutes without feeding, and then test again to see if the number is rising.
    2 - If you do shoot a low number (like below 200), do your best to get another test by +2 hours after the shot, to see if the number has gone even lower. That way if you see her number dropping, you can intervene by feeding a bit, or if it's really low you can use karo syrup to boost it up quickly. The danger with shooting low numbers is that the cat can become hypoglycemic, which can be harmful or deadly if it isn't caught in time.

    Please try to get tests in between shots when possible, especially if you see low numbers at shot time. It's those mid-cycle numbers that determine if the dose is too high, too low, or just right.

    Carl
     
  62. Jennifer & Saima (GA)

    Jennifer & Saima (GA) Member

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    Aug 16, 2011
    I came here to check back in, and am seeing a couple more shots given at lower preshot numbers with no midcycle tests to follow up. Carl had some advice regarding this in the previous post, so I am just bumping the thread in the hope that you will see his advice.

    Hypoglycemia incidents are potentially deadly, and I don't want anyone to ever go through the pain of losing their cat in that way, so that is why I am being a bit of a pest about this to make sure that you are at least aware of the issue and the possible dangers.

    ETA: These are recent shots, so I know it's possible you have more test numbers that aren't in the spreadsheet yet.
     
  63. Yes, please get some tests in between shots, so you can see if Zoe's BG is going too low from the shots you have been giving with those low preshot test number. Her dose may need adjusting, but you can't know that without tests "in the middle", and shooting insulin on those lower numbers can be dangerous.

    Carl
     
  64. Grimreefer

    Grimreefer Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2012
    just now
    313
    7h
    164
    12h
    579
    12h
    120
    8h
    497
    7h
    94


    a quick update. the chart should be uptodate. i am not keeping track of the records the miss's is. i will get her to post the updates here as well.
     
  65. MyprettyZoe

    MyprettyZoe New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2012
    Last night: 58
    This AM353, 1.5U
     
  66. Nice to see you posting !
    The higher number this morning is due to Zoe not getting a shot with that low number last night. You did the right thing skipping that shot.
    We could all be more helpful if you can help us. We need to know what the insulin is doing in between shots.
    Please try to test her at +6 hours after her morning shot for several days in a row. It is impossible to know if the dose is right without some tests in the middle of Zoe's shots.

    Carl
     
  67. MyprettyZoe

    MyprettyZoe New Member

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    May 11, 2012
    Zoe tested at 92 this am, yeah!!
     
  68. Jennifer & Saima (GA)

    Jennifer & Saima (GA) Member

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    Aug 16, 2011
    I am thinking you guys have probably been consulting with your vet and other folks here and discussed a dosing strategy? I just ask because to me I would still be super leery of shooting her normal dose into some of these preshot numbers and not getting any midcycle tests. I know work schedules and stuff can make this very difficult, and I know she has done fine so far, but hypos are so serious and can happen at any time, without warning--including if she starts getting better and needing dose decreases. The preshot number is just a snapshot in time and may not give you enough warning if she is going to get too low.

    I'm assuming you guys have a plan that you are working though. This is only my 2 cents. I'm sorry to nag but it worries me. I think it is important not to get complacent about shooting insulin just because it has been OK so far. I have only been on the boards since last August and in that time frame several cats here (that I know of) have died after going hypo. It's horrible and I wouldn't wish that on any pet or pet owner.

    How is Zoe feeling? The numbers that you do have are looking like an improvement so I bet she is feeling better. :D
     
  69. Caryn and Powder

    Caryn and Powder Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2012
    My powder was on dry food his entire life and when he became diabetic in january 2012 I too was confused about the whole food issue. I got on this site and followed the advise of the people on here. I started home testing, switched his food to fancy feast classics and within 1.5 months he was OTJ. I cannot tell you how grateful I am. It is very overwhelming at first but if you can start doing the right things early on there is a good chance you can get your baby into remission. I definitely say, stop the dry food! It may be difficult at first but she will adapt. Hang in there!
     
  70. MyprettyZoe

    MyprettyZoe New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2012
    My darling Zoe's number still are up and down, although not the amount they were.
    6/14pm 106
    6/15 am 92
    6/15 pm 353
    6/16 am 208
    confused_cat
     
  71. MyprettyZoe

    MyprettyZoe New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2012


    We did stop the dry food. She likes it much better :mrgreen:
     
  72. MyprettyZoe

    MyprettyZoe New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2012
    She seems to be doing better & some of the muscle in her hind legs seems to be working better. She was able to jump up (and hog) my computer desk chair.
     
  73. Ry & Scooter

    Ry & Scooter Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    Can you please try to get some tests in between her shots? We can't really give you an explanation for the numbers without knowing more information. If you could try to get at least one test 4-6 hours after every shot, that would help us see the full picture of how the insulin is working.

    What I feel is that she may be getting too much, shooting a full dose at 92 could have made her hypo, which in turn would raise her blood glucose significantly for a few days. Can't say without mid-cycle tests. confused_cat
     
  74. Ry,
    There are a few mid-cycle numbers on Zoe's SS, which you can see in my sig.
    I would love someone to help me make any sense out of Zoe's numbers...

    Carl
     
  75. Grimreefer

    Grimreefer Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2012
    ya her numbers go up and then drop. i have no freaking idea whats going on. i was just checking in to see how the wife was doing with posting here and i see..... ya nothing. ok so zoe numbers go from 300+ down to under 100 often. she is not eating as much as she was so she is nibbling all day night. as far as i know she is keeping the log numbers up to date i will check that as well next.
     
  76. Jennifer & Saima (GA)

    Jennifer & Saima (GA) Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
    I feel like to really figure this out, you're probably going to need more data. Do you have a day off from work at any point in the week where you could do a curve (a test every 2 hours for 12 hours)? Or, could you try to set an alarm at night (or in the day if you work nights) and grab a quick test in the middle of each nighttime cycle for several days in a row? (Obviously, if someone is home during the day, it would be easier to grab the midcycle tests then... just depends on what works for you.) This would tell you if she is going low, or at least hopefully show you more of the pattern. My 2 cents.

    I'm glad Zoe is feeling better!
     
  77. MyprettyZoe

    MyprettyZoe New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2012
    6/20 pm 84
    6/21 am 274
    6/21 pm 55
    6/22 am 307
    6/22 pm 67
    6/23 am 293
     
  78. MyprettyZoe

    MyprettyZoe New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2012
    6/23 Noon 247
    6/23 PM 293
    6/24 AM 92
    6/24 Noon 87
     
  79. MyprettyZoe

    MyprettyZoe New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2012
    6/23 PM 297
    6/24 AM 87
     
  80. Zoe's Mom,
    First off, I have to say that Zoe's numbers lately are very, very encouraging! There are dozens (at least) of people here who after seeing those numbers would switch places with you in an instant! Thanks for getting some mid-cycle numbers lately too, because those are extremely helpful when trying to figure things out.
    Any tests that you can get between shots is great data to have.

    I'll post more later tonight,
    Carl
     
  81. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I want to echo (loudly) what others are saying about the amount you're testing.

    Lantus is a long-acting insulin. Dosing is based on the nadir -- or the lowest point of the cycle -- not on your pre-shot tests. To use Lantus safely and effectively, you need more information than just the pre-shot test. You need to know when Lantus onset begins, when the nadir occurs (because it's not always at +6), and how much duration you are getting. Typically, this means you need to get a curve. At the absolute minimum, you need to get at least one test during BOTH the AM and PM cycles.

    Right now, you don't have any idea how low Zoe's numbers are going. This is particularly concerning over the PM cycle since many cats experience lower numbers at night. If you can get tests at random times -- when you come home, before you go to sleep at night, before you leave the house -- it will help to fill out the gaps and give everyone more information so they can give you better help.
     
  82. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    looking good here!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

    since you've recently had to skip shots, how about reducing the dose to 0.5 unit?

    hopefully, reducing the dose to a half unit every 12 hours will allow you to shoot zoe every 12 hours.

    in addition to testing zoe's blood sugar at shot times, are you able to test about six hours after giving the morning shot and once right before you go to bed every night?

    what do you think? do-able? :mrgreen:
     
  83. MyprettyZoe

    MyprettyZoe New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2012
    6/26 AM 218
    6/26 PM 128
    6/27 AM 246
    6/27 1:30p 91
    6/27 PM 40
    6/28 AM 322
     
  84. Jennifer & Saima (GA)

    Jennifer & Saima (GA) Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2011
    Whoa... 40! :shock: That is crazy. Slow down there, Miss Zoe!

    What do you guys think about Jill's advice to cut the dose? I am going to assume people would still advise you never to shoot a 40, but it looks like her numbers are going down in general, and that means caution (both in terms of dose and getting as many tests as you can) is probably warranted. I also think I have heard (although I could be wrong, and hoping someone else will chime in here) that Lantus works best on a consistent dose. So maybe 0.5u all the time would be better than adjusting based on the preshot? You would still have to get midcycle tests to make sure she is not going too low.

    By the way, do you guys have any questions about what you need to do if she goes into low numbers during a cycle? Again hypos are very dangerous so it's good to be prepared. I am not experienced with handling hypos myself, but many people here are.

    The additional testing data is cool. Hoping others will be able to lend expertise based on this. :mrgreen:
     
  85. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    hi jennie! thank you for posting more numbers. zoe is doing very well! however, i am very concerned about her dose. she's getting too much insulin.

    please drop the dose to 0.5 unit (a half unit) even if the preshot number is high. a little bit of lantus is powerful enough to pull down numbers from the 300s.

    since you've recently had to skip shots, please reduce the dose to 0.5 unit.

    hopefully, reducing the dose to a half unit every 12 hours will allow you to shoot zoe every 12 hours.

    in addition to testing zoe's blood sugar at shot times, are you able to test about six hours after giving the morning shot and once right before you go to bed every night?

    what do you think? do-able? :mrgreen:


    Be prepared:
    (you can click on the links typed in blue below)
    HYPO TOOLBOX
    LIST OF HYPO SYMPTOMS
    TREATING HYPOGLYCEMIA


    DON'T PANIC! or HOW TO HANDLE LOW NUMBERS
    First, try to not panic. Post to the Lantus Insulin Support Group or on the Health Board. Make sure your subject line indicates you are concerned about a possible hypo and/or add the 911 icon to the first post in your condo. People who are experienced in dealing with low numbers will be there to help. After posting, remember to refresh your browser periodically to see if people have replied.

    It’s important to recognize that just because your cat may be experiencing low BG numbers doesn’t mean that your kitty is critically hypoglycemic. Many cats will have low numbers and never have symptoms. It’s important, though, to bring those numbers up into a safe range. ALWAYS make sure you have a stock of test strips, high carb (HC) canned food that contains gravy and is over 15% carb such as Fancy Feast grilled, marinated, or Gravy Lovers varieties (see Janet & Binky's Food Chart for a full list of options), and/or a simple sugar solution such as Karo/corn syrup, honey, maple syrup, etc.

    If your cat is experiencing symptoms, especially if those symptoms are severe, you need to rub Karo syrup, honey, or maple syrup on the gums or, if symptoms are very severe, administer rectally and get your cat to the nearest 24-hour emergency facility. Take the bottle of syrup with you to administer on the way if necessary. (Note that it is rare that we see episodes of symptomatic hypoglycemia with Lantus and even rarer to see severe symptoms. But, you need to know what to do should they occur.)

    The symptoms to be concerned about include but are not limited to:
    • staggering, uncoordinated movements, 'drunken' walk, wobbling, balance problems
    • ataxia - usually lack of muscular coordination, but maybe changes in head and neck movements
    • disorientation (yowling, walking in circles, etc.)
    • twitching
    • stupor
    • convulsions or seizures
    • coma
    If your cat is testing in low numbers and you are not getting a quick response to your post, there are several things you need to do. (Low numbers are under 50mg/dL or 2.8 mmol/L.)

    • Depending on how carbohydrate sensitive your cat is, feed approximately a teaspoon or less of food with high carb (HC) gravy or HC food only. (If you have a cat with GI issues, using syrup plus LC food is an alternative.)
    • Test again in 15 – 20 min. Depending on the numbers, give more HC food.
    • Repeat the above steps every 15 – 20 min. until your cat tests in the 50 mg/dL (2.8 mmol/L) or above range for 2 consecutive tests. Continue to feed in small amounts to keep numbers in a safe range.
    • Test in 30 - 40 min. and repeat the test and feed process until there are 2 consecutive tests where numbers are stable or rising.
    • Test in an hour and follow the same steps.
    DO NOT become complacent. If number have risen after one or two tests, it’s important to continue testing. Numbers may bobble up and down as the HC food and/or Karo wear off. DO NOT get one test where your cat has risen from low numbers into the 50s and go to sleep or leave the house. You are putting your cat in a risky situation. When in doubt, leave HC food out.

    In the case of an accidental overdose or should there be symptoms of hypoglycemia, even if you have caught this in the early stages, you may need to monitor for literally 16 or more hours. Lantus and Levemir are long acting types of insulin. This means if your cat is over dose, you will need to stay alert for hours in order to closely monitor and to keep your cat safe.

    Please post your numbers. Those people who are helping you will not abandon you. In fact, they are staying up with you. The experienced people will even work in shifts to make sure your cat is safe and you have the support you need. Remember to refresh your browser to see new posts and keep posting so we know all is well.

    ~ written by Sienne and Gabby
     
  86. MyprettyZoe

    MyprettyZoe New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2012
    6/28 pm 117
    6/29 am 64
    6/29 11am 66
    6/29 1:22pm 80 :mrgreen:
    6/29 PM 63
    6/30 am 107
    6/30 pm 151
    7/1 am 223
     
  87. Wow, those are very nice numbers, and all on 1u doses at shot times. And you've been able to get some mid-cycle daytime tests too!

    Anyone looking at the SS (in my sig)... does the 290 look like a bounce maybe? Would you stick with 1u, or maybe a little less?

    Carl
     
  88. MyprettyZoe

    MyprettyZoe New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2012
    7/1 pm 223
    7/2 am 290
    7/2 pm 150 (.5u)
    7/3 am 343
     
  89. MyprettyZoe

    MyprettyZoe New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2012
    7/3 PM 94
    7/4 am 293
     
  90. Hi Jennie,
    I know it's instinctive to want to adjust the dose based on the number you see at shot time, but try to stick with the .5 for a few days. And if at all possible, each day get an additional test at +6 during that period. We should be able to determine a pattern from that. Her numbers are good ones, and you're doing well with her!

    Also, you can tell a great deal just from observation. Is she eating well, drinking less, peeing less compared to when she was first diagnosed? Is she pretty active and generally look like she feels better?

    Carl
     
  91. MyprettyZoe

    MyprettyZoe New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2012
    7/3 am 343
    7/3 PM 194
    7/4 AM 293
    7/4 PM 112
    7/5 AM 107
    7/5 PM 197
    7/6 AM 106
    7/6 11am 114
    7/6 PM 172
    7/7 am 132
    7/7 pm 78
     
  92. MyprettyZoe

    MyprettyZoe New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2012
    She isn't drinking as much & her kitty box isn't as full each morning. I think she's using her hind legs better (Al doesn't). She's feeling better, although a little freaked when my 1 yr. old neice started crying. (not a normal sound in our house) :mrgreen:

     
  93. MyprettyZoe

    MyprettyZoe New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2012
    7/8 AM 219
    7/8 PM 238
    7/9 AM 88
    7/9 PM 215
    7/10 AM 131
    7/10 PM 123
    7/11 AM 111
    7/11 PM 58
    7/12 AM 196
     
  94. Hi Jennie

    Good report, and great looking numbers! PLEASE see if you can get some daytime or nighttime test in the +5, +6, or +7 time frame? It could be that the current dose of .5 is exactly right. But it could also be that it needs to be just a little higher or lower. But it's impossible to know without those extra tests exactly which way to go.

    You two are doing a great job with Zoe!

    Carl
     
  95. MyprettyZoe

    MyprettyZoe New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2012
    7/12 PM 107
    7/13 AM 84
    7/13 PM 225
    7/14 AM 212
    7/14 PM 301
    7/14 PM 225
    7/15 AM 212
    7/15 PM 108
    7/16 AM 181
    7/16 PM 84
    7/17 AM 53
    7/17 PM 121
    7/18 AM 220
     
  96. MyprettyZoe

    MyprettyZoe New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2012
    7/18 pm 125
    7/19 am 86
    7/19 pm 83
    7/19 2hrs. l8tr 133
    7/20 am 136
    7/20 pm 94
    7/21 am 68
    7/21 pm 219
    7/22 am 57
    7/22 pm 113
    7/23 am 129
    7/23 pm 100
    7/24 am 75
    7/24 pm 191
    7/25 am 48
    7/25 pm 144
    7/26 am 131
    7/26 pm 120
    7/27 am 56
    7/27 pm 94
     
  97. Hi Jeannie,
    Wow, what beautiful numbers Zoe is showing you! And I see that you have skipped shots when the numbers were low, and she hasn't climbed back up to higher numbers afterwards.
    I'm wondering if you would like to try something different?
    The next time she needs a shot, can you eyeball a lower dose? I know it's hard to see even .5 in the syringe, but do you think you could do half of that and give her .25? I really think there's a good chance that she may not need insulin too much longer.
    Carl
     
  98. MyprettyZoe

    MyprettyZoe New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2012
    7/28 PM 61
    7/29 AM 172
    7/29 PM 150
    7/30 AM 65
    7/30 PM 74
    7/31 AM 175
    7/31 PM 115
    8/1 AM 53
    8/1 PM 167
    8/2 AM 79
    8/2 PM 213
    8/3 AM 90
    8/3 PM 62
    8/4 AM 151
    8/4 PM 75
    8/5 AM 142
    8/5 PM 152
    8/6 AM 181
     
  99. Happy Birthday, Jennie!

    How's Zoe doing?

    Carl
     
  100. MyprettyZoe

    MyprettyZoe New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2012
    8/7/2012 109 0.25 69 0.25
    8/8/2012 115 0.50 116 0.50
    8/9/2012 63 0.25 139 0.50
    8/10/2012 164 0.25 217 0.50
    8/11/2012 42 0.25
    8/12/2012 124
    8/13/2012 124 0.50 107 0.50
    8/14/2012 43 0.25 166 0.50
    8/15/2012 68 0.00
    8/16/2012 43 0.00 102 0.25
    8/17/2012 42 0.00 134 0.25
    8/18/2012 50 0.00 100 0.00
    8/19/2012 42 0.00 102 0.00
    8/20/2012 126 0.25 105 0.00
    8/21/2012 68 0.00 100 0.00
     
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