Panting while playing! Echo scheduled for Fri @3PM

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Traci and Boomer, Aug 3, 2010.

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  1. Traci and Boomer

    Traci and Boomer Well-Known Member

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    Eeek. Another new thing with my new cat. He plays really hard with me and the wand toy. He's got as much energy as a kitten even though he's 1. It's pretty comfortable here temperature-wise tonight, so it's not from the heat - he's just playing so hard he starts panting. Ooohhh, it's scary to see a cat pant. I don't recall my other cats doing this. Is it okay? Anyone else ever see this? I stop playing when he pants right away. It happened the other night when Dave was playing with him too.
     
  2. Phoebe_TiggyGA_NortonGA

    Phoebe_TiggyGA_NortonGA Well-Known Member

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    Dec 29, 2009
    Re: Panting while playing!

    My most active cat will play until he pants -- he just gets all wound up and chases the laser spot up and down the stairs and around in circles. So - when he starts panting, we let him "catch" the spot and rest.
     
  3. feathersby

    feathersby Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: Panting while playing!

    I have 2 that do it. Scared me to feath when the first one started it, but that was over a year ago, and she is totally fine. New kitty does it too, but I am not sure she isn't aping the other as they are best buds!
     
  4. CD and BigMac

    CD and BigMac Well-Known Member

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    Re: Panting while playing!

    It's probably just over exertion from all the fun like Phoebe and Feathersby said.

    If this was my kitty, I'd get him checked out. It doesn't hurt to ask your vet for a thorough going over; lungs & heart.
    I had a kitty that did the same thing and I wish I had been more assertive when I told my vet about it. This was my first pet ever and I didn't know what to expect... so didn't know if it was normal or not. The vet said I was probably seeing my kitty getting scents with her mouth open... called "flehming." But that was NOT what it was.

    Please know that this could be nothing or something simple but it needs checking. Could be asthma or something like that. Or more serious like it was for my kitty, she had a heart problem. I don't want to scare you, but if it is something serious like my kitty had, there are treatments to deal with it. My ex-vet just blew me off. Don't let that happen to you. I would rather be embarrassed at over-reacting than having a treatable problem go ignored.

    Having knowledge is a good thing, so try to find out. (((Traci)))

    My kitty also had a few other symptoms that my ex-vet ignored too. So it wasn't just the panting, but that was the main symptom.
     
  5. Traci and Boomer

    Traci and Boomer Well-Known Member

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    Re: Panting while playing!

    Hi CD-

    Thanks for the info. Maybe I should have posted this on Health.

    Did your cat pant when playing or during "normal life"? My guy was running up and down the couch from the floor to the top cushions over and over. He's got a ton of energy and doesn't stop. He was just at the vet and he did have a heart and lung check - but nothing more in depth than listening the stethoscope though. What else should the vet do? What were the other symptoms your cat had? How often did your cat pant? I'm not too worried about it but I am curious and I will keep an eye on it.
     
  6. CD and BigMac

    CD and BigMac Well-Known Member

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    Re: Panting while playing!

    My kitty panted after running up a tree, up stairs, or after playing with the feather wand thing. She could jump SO high, but then she'd pant afterward. She didn't pant during normal life.

    I'm glad your vet is listening to heart/lungs. Mention the panting and maybe they will listen even harder. :D

    The other symptom my kitty had that was ignored was a very slight seizure. She was playing by my feet while I was paying bills and I glanced down and she was on her side quivering. I freaked and got up to pick her up, but then she stopped and stood up as if to say..What are YOU looking at? I told the vet and he told me she was probably just running in her dreams... kittens do that. I told him she wasn't asleep. He didn't believe me and said something to the effect that I probably just didn't notice since kittens fall asleep so quickly.

    He didn't check her out any more than the usual check-up stuff. I was bewildered. No other symptoms except for the panting after running or jumping.

    When I adopted BigMac and his sister Cappi I changed vets and made them aware of my concerns with heart problems which Maine Coons sometimes are susceptible to... Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy. My vet is aware and monitors with just a good listen and if she hears anything slightly off, then further tests would be done. I think maybe an ultra sound? Anyway my 2 Maine coons are fine and no further testing has been done for them.

    My first kitten... the one whose symptoms were ignored... She died suddenly in my arms at 18 months from a blood clot thrown from her enlarged heart. I'm sure you understand that I really hated to even bring this up, but I have a very hard time when I see or hear about a kitten panting. I'm pretty sure what happened to my kitten is extremely unusual, but being cautious is something I've learned from this personal experience.
     
  7. Jess & Earl

    Jess & Earl Member

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    Re: Panting while playing!

    I have to agree, this is something I'd get checked out. No one can say that a cat is fine until s/he's had an echocardiogram and a chest x-ray. You just can't, I wish there were an easier way but there isn't. Even if a cat doesn't die or develop further symptoms of heart disease during his/her lifetime, a cat who pants during exertion (this is called exercise intolerance) may have a heart problem. (Just because a cat has heart disease doesn't mean it will cause his/her death later on.) It sounds likely that you have a young cat who over-does things but you should consider an echocardiogram to rule out underlying heart disease.

    I'm sorry, it's probably the last thing you want to hear, but I am just being straightforward. I wouldn't get upset about it yet as the chances are that it's over-exertion rather than true exercise intolerance, but I'd definitely get it checked out.
     
  8. WCF and Meowzi

    WCF and Meowzi Well-Known Member

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    Re: Panting while playing!

    Us too. We packed Cali up and drove her to the cardiologist a couple of months ago, because we wanted the all-clear before she went under anesthesia for a dental cleaning. She had shown signs of exercise intolerance after playing too hard, while she was younger. There hasn't been any sign of it in the last year or two, so I felt a little foolish telling the cardiologist that, but we weren't taking any chances. He did an echocardiogram and told us her heart is in excellent condition :)
     
  9. OLM Catnip Cottage

    OLM Catnip Cottage Well-Known Member

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    Dec 30, 2009
    Re: Panting while playing!

    Traci,

    Like everyone said, it could be nothing... but I agree with Carolyn. I would have Merlin checked out - heart lungs. Other things can cause panting when exerting themselves... Things that can be controlled with medication and treated, but can also end up badly if ignored.

    Feline Heartworms, asthma or heart issues (like hypertrophic Cardio Myopathy, common in Maine Coons and other big cats) can cause panting, coughing and/or vomiting. A good workup should at the least include x-rays.

    I'd schedule a vet appt.
     
  10. MommaOfMuse

    MommaOfMuse Well-Known Member

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    May 26, 2010
    Re: Panting while playing!

    I have 3 here that will play so hard that they start panting as well. But like everyone else it was something that I had checked out, because better safe than sorry. The funny thing is that it is all 3 of the Meezers that will do that and they are all neutered males. We had them checked from whiskers to tail and they checked out clean, just live balls of fire when they play. Wonder if it is just a male meezer trait? They also only did that until they reached about 2 years old then it suddenly stopped.

    Mel & Muse (GA)
     
  11. Traci and Boomer

    Traci and Boomer Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: Panting while playing!

    Hi Everyone-

    Thank you for your concern and your information. I'm pretty horrified to say the least. We first saw him pant with Dave a few nights ago. I've only had him for a week and a half and already I'm faced with this. He also still has loose stools. I'm crushed. Regarding the loose stools - it's better than full-on diarrhea that he had when I first got him. He eats fine but the poop isn't perfectly formed. I had stopped giving him his meds for a couple days and then I gave him a pill yesterday again. I will give him a dose once a day until it's better. He wasn't sick at all at the shelter.

    I am so sad about this. I will call his new vet and I will tell his former foster-the owner of the shelter to get her opinion. So the suggested test is a chest x-ray and echocardiogram? I feel ill.
     
  12. PeterDevonMocha

    PeterDevonMocha Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: Panting while playing!

    I know that our civvie twix will pant when she plays hard. That is when we know play time comes to an end. We have never had her checked out at a cardiologist office or anything. In fact, now that I think about it, I haven't ever even mentioned it to her reg vet. Usually within less then a minute after we stop playing she stops panting. Of course, she is also a big time panter in the car and will foam from her mouth uncontrollably.
     
  13. Carrie & Trouble

    Carrie & Trouble Member

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    May 12, 2010
    Re: Panting while playing!

    Trouble pants when he plays hard or when it is really warm outside and he has been lounging in the garden. It never crossed my mind that it could be something medical. Keep us posted if you decide to visit a vet.
     
  14. Traci and Boomer

    Traci and Boomer Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: Panting while playing!

    Hey all-

    This post should really be on Health, shouldn't it - especially since others are popping up with the same issue. Does anyone know how to make this happen?

    Also - I have a call into my vet about this. My BF and I also have a vet friend. We are asking her opinion too.

    Thanks to the folks who told me their cat does this too; it's quite a relief. I'm interested in seeing how many other cats out there do this.
     
  15. LynnLee + Mousie

    LynnLee + Mousie Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: Panting while playing!

    just remember, it's always a good idea to know than not know. so don't get too upset. i know what you're thinking but don't okay ((traci))

    not that it really means much but fwiw, i actually do have a heart kitty. a kitty with a really bad heart, so much so that the cardio doesn't think he'll see a year old :( buttttt, despite what the science says, he races around and plays as much as any kitten i've ever had and he hasn't panted not once yet so it's another one of those ECID things
     
  16. OLM Catnip Cottage

    OLM Catnip Cottage Well-Known Member

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    Dec 30, 2009
    Re: Panting while playing!

    I know that this can sound quite frightening. But try not to get ahead of yourself.

    Merlin IS a rescued cat. It is quite common for rescued cats to have some remaining medical or behavioral issues from their hard days that led to their need for rescue. Quite often, it can take weeks to months even to resolve, but after placement with a good family in a good home, they DO resolve. I advise all my adoptive parents to bring their cat to a vet for a checkup within 2 weeks of adoption, but I also advise if the cat is adapting well and no issues arise that cause concern prior, to WAIT 2 weeks because often issues arise after placement that we had no way of seeing.

    Good stress, bad stress - stress is stress and moving to a new home is stressful. That in itself can cause things to show up.

    Now all that being said, Merlin may quite well be fine and perfectly normal. Probably is! But it is wise of you to pursue more information and possibly x-rays to relieve your mind and ensure that he has no more significant issues that require treatment.

    Even IF he has issues, that doesn't mean the worse. I.e., Jacob came in here with a positive FIV diagnosis, uncontrolled diabetes, a heart murmer and some heart thickening.

    After about a month with me, his diabetes went into remission. After 3 months, his heart murmer was low-grade and the heart thickening appeared to even been lessening a bit, definitely not getting worse. The stress of being homeless and living in a vet's office contributed greatly to aggravate underlying weaknesses in his body. With a good home and good care, he is a new cat. So, I just continue like I am, give him medicine daily that he is wonderful at taking and my vet will keep an eye on him with an evaluation every 6 months. He will most likely live a long, normal life.

    So even the worst case scenario need not be that scary or bad. It is just information and information is important to keeping your baby healthy and happy with you for a long, blessed life.

    The chances are that Merlin is perfectly normal and healthy, and talking to your trusted vet will just confirm that.
     
  17. Hillary & Maui (GA)

    Hillary & Maui (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: Panting while playing!

    Get some tests, get some answers and only then will you know what you need to and be able to take action if needed and look don't get worked up over the what if's. I understand how you feel, but right now, you need answers and nothing more.

    Take care - and I'm over here sending good test result vines for Merlin.
     
  18. Jess & Earl

    Jess & Earl Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: Panting while playing!

    Wow, you brought them all in for an echocardiogram? If only there were a group discount ... !
     
  19. Heather & Angel (GA)

    Heather & Angel (GA) Member

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    Jan 16, 2010
    Re: Panting while playing!

    Traci,

    Merlin is your adorable little Siamese?? Hmmm...

    Maybe this will give you hope, though -- I recently took one of my civvies for a thorough checkup because of her history of lymphoma. I've always worried because when she gets really excited, she pants. It's only happened a few times, but I was concerned that it was a sign of heart problems. The internist said that based on the chest x-rays, she suspects that the panting is from asthma and not a heart problem. She said that if it gets worse, they make kitty inhalers now for asthma treatment.

    I hope Merlin is okay! Do you know his history, before you adopted him?
     
  20. MommaOfMuse

    MommaOfMuse Well-Known Member

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    May 26, 2010
    Re: Panting while playing!

    No they didn't get echocardiogram, just a good going over at the vet and only 3 out 10 or 11 if you include the drooler.

    Mel & Muse (GA)
     
  21. Jess & Earl

    Jess & Earl Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: Panting while playing!

    Oh I didn't understand. That would have been a mighty investment :)

    For the record, there is no way to rule out structural cardiac disease (such as HCM) except by echocardiogram. Your vet can only say your cat does not have heart disease if s/he has an echocardiogram done. Even chest x-rays will miss mild/moderate disease in some cases. It would be nice if there were a way to say "no heart disease" based on listening to the heart and a physical exam, but there isn't. Echocardiography is the only way.

    For example, I have my cat Dillon and a foster cat. Does the foster cat have heart disease? I don't know. I certainly don't think so, and have no reason to believe he does, but he has not had an echocardiogram so the best I can say is that he is not symptomatic for cardiac disease and I have no reason to believe he has it. Dillon has had an echocardiogram so I can say that he does not have heart disease.

    I'm not saying this to imply that anyone's cat does have heart disease, I'm just saying this for the sake of general knowledge. If anyone suspects cardiac disease, go for an echo to rule it out.
     
  22. Traci and Boomer

    Traci and Boomer Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: Panting while playing!

    Hi Jess-

    Any idea how much an echocardiogram would cost?
    Does the cat need to go to sleep?
    This would that be the best test?
    I have a call into my vet but have not heard back yet.
     
  23. Traci and Boomer

    Traci and Boomer Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: Panting while playing!

    Hi! Yes, this is Merlin my new little Siamese that I've had for a week and a half.
    He was checked by a vet in the Siamese rescue and my own vet and neither suspected anything/mentioned anything about heart problems. The woman at the shelter never witnessed any panting, however, he didn't run around like a bat out of hell there. :lol: I'm glad your civvie (Merlin is a civvie too) doesn't have heart issues.

    Eta: he was a stray so I don't know anything else.
     
  24. LynnLee + Mousie

    LynnLee + Mousie Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: Panting while playing! Does your cat pant?

    i could double check our bill when i get home tonight but Fuji's visit cost around $700. mind you that was around $145 for the initial consult fee, the echo and some x-rays too. (shhhhhhh, fiance doesn't know the numbers. LOL! )

    if i remember correctly when i called to inquire and set up the appt if i remember right the quoted price for just the echo was like $395 if i remember correctly.
     
  25. WCF and Meowzi

    WCF and Meowzi Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: Panting while playing! Does your cat pant?

    Jess, what are your and Dr B's thoughts on the Idexx Cardiopet ProBNP test, 1) as an initial screening tool without an echocardiogram, or 2) as a subsequent screening tool on a regular (annual?) basis after a full cardiac workup (incl. echocardiogram) has been done at least once to rule out congenital heart disease? Age- or health-related heart disease can still develop in later years, despite a clean bill of (cardiac) health at the time of the initial workup, right?
     
  26. Jess & Earl

    Jess & Earl Member

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    Re: Panting while playing!

    They are expensive! I am not sure the costs in your area, maybe 500-600.

    Nope.

    It's the only one to definitively rule out heart disease...

    Since he is otherwise well (I assume resting breath rate of ~30 breaths per min, right?) I don't think this is OMG Urgent -- if he were in congestive heart failure he'd be in trouble all the time. YOu'd basically be screening for heart disease to help him stay healthy, if he does have it, or to wipe your brow if he doesn't.

    If he comes from a heartworm-endemic area I'd test for heartworm as well. A long shot, but the test is pretty cheap IIRC.
     
  27. Traci and Boomer

    Traci and Boomer Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: Panting while playing! Does your cat pant?

    How do I count his breaths-just watch the belly? Is there an accurate way to do this?
    Sorry if this is a dumb question.
    Is it 30 breaths per minute when he is at rest?
     
  28. LynnLee + Mousie

    LynnLee + Mousie Well-Known Member

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    Re: Panting while playing! Does your cat pant?

    i was told to check Fuji's when at rest. count for 10 seconds, multiply by 6

    just so you know, my lord is that hard to do. not count, but to get a young cat to rest. :)

    and yes, i counted the chest/belly as it rose & fell.
     
  29. Jess & Earl

    Jess & Earl Member

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    Re: Panting while playing! Does your cat pant?

    I can't speak for him ... I can tell you that the test is plagued with false negatives and positives -- some cats in fulminant heart failure due to HCM can test negative, whereas cats with normal hearts can test "positive". It seems to be most accurate in cats with very severe disease; these cats probably have symptoms or show signs on x-ray anyway, so the value of the test is questionable.

    Of course. I was going to put that caveat in my comment about Dillon but didn't want to make things complicated. It would be unusual for a cat of Dillon's age (~10 years old) to develop idiopathic hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, however. Cats can suffer secondary heart problems from uncontrolled hypertension and hyperthyroidism, and as a consequence of acromegaly. In some cases we only discover a cat's hyperthyroidism or hypertension because of their subsequent cardiac issues.
     
  30. Jess & Earl

    Jess & Earl Member

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    Re: Panting while playing! Does your cat pant?


    I missed this, Cindy -- what were the results?
     
  31. LynnLee + Mousie

    LynnLee + Mousie Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: Panting while playing! Does your cat pant?

    jess, i can't remember the technical terms right now (painkillers are working for me) but basically he's got a mitral valve problem on the left side (not opening all the way), causing backup on that side, then he's got thickening on the right side (dual chambered right ventricle they said) and there's a hole between the two sides towards the top (can't remember what they called that)

    science says he should be dead but life doesn't say the same so as long as he's averaging 60mph around my house, he'll get his meds and enjoy life. when/if he starts deteriorating, we will do what he needs.
     
  32. Jess & Earl

    Jess & Earl Member

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    Re: Panting while playing! Does your cat pant?

    Cindy, wow. Major kudos to you and your DF for taking care of this little guy.
     
  33. Traci and Boomer

    Traci and Boomer Well-Known Member

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    Re: Panting while playing! Does your cat pant?

    Cindy-
    This was one of your little treedwellers, right?

    My goodness, I am not ready for all this again. My vet never returned my call. Maybe she thinks it's no big deal? I'm going to call again.
     
  34. LynnLee + Mousie

    LynnLee + Mousie Well-Known Member

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    Re: Panting while playing! Does your cat pant?

    yeah Traci, this is the littlest one and the first one we caught, the one fiance ended up naming Fuji.

    like i said earlier, don't fret just yet ok. it most likely is nothing.
     
  35. Traci and Boomer

    Traci and Boomer Well-Known Member

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    Re: Panting while playing! Does your cat pant?

    I spoke to my (very kind) vet. She doesn't think it's necessary because his heart and lungs sound fine. She also said that 2 of her cats pants sometimes when playing. She says if I'll sleep better that I can do it. It would be about $300. Then my BF's vet friend said "panting in cats isn't normal" ....ummm....okay - two total opposite opinions from two vets.

    Now here's the question: what if i do this procedure and his heart is fine but he's still panting? Does that mean I'll be chasing my tail trying to figure out what other kind of ailment this could be? Or is he just a panter?

    I've got some people telling me that I'm making this into a huge deal and that I should just forget about it. Then I've got the other side telling me this could be serious. How the heck should I know what to do? I feel guilty and like a bad mother if I don't do it and like an overreactive dope if I do. And....this has nothing to do with a REAL problem I have - his diahrrea issue. He still hasn't had a normal poop and it's been almost two weeks. He will not eat any "good" canned cat food. And will not touch any "good" dry food unless it's mixed with the "bad" wet food. I feel like a total failure who is not equipped to deal with this. I obsesss about all of it and don't know which way to go. I've got the shelter woman telling me to go back to feeding him what she fed him all "good" wet and dry. (He won't eat ANY of it) Then I have my vet saying that she feeds Purina One. :?:
    We're going to talk again later to try to figure out what route I want to take. I'm utterly confused and frustrated.
     
  36. LynnLee + Mousie

    LynnLee + Mousie Well-Known Member

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    Re: Panting while playing! Does your cat pant?

    my personal opinion? like you need another one :)

    for your peace of mind, given what you've been thru, if you have the $$, i'd do it or have it done soon if you can.

    if it shows nothing, it shows nothing and you get that peace of mind knowing he's just a panter :)

    if you don't do it, it will eat at you and drive you completely freaking bonkers.

    for us, knowing what we were dealing with was worth spending the $$ even if we didn't get the best of news and a lot of people would consider it a complete waste of money to get checkups and meds and such given Fuji's prognosis. but, like i said before, right now he doesn't seem to know he's sick so he will get whatever he wants as long as he wants it.
     
  37. CD and BigMac

    CD and BigMac Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: Panting while playing! Does your cat pant?

    (((Traci))) I had a very kind vet tell me that my kitten was fine too. I believe that vet truly meant it. But in my case he was wrong and it was a horrible mistake and I paid the price in heartbreak. Perhaps the odds are that my first vet would have been correct 90% of the time and my kitten was in the wrong percentage. I don't know.

    Many people here are telling you that their kitties also pant when they are over-exerting so it probably can be normal in many cases. But at least 2 of us (Cindy and Mousie) and I have had kitties with heart problems. Mine was playing one minute and dead the next. It was devastating and I'll never get over it... I've moved on, but I cannot ever forget the warning signs. I don't think I had discussed what happened to my first kittie on the board until I saw your post about Merlin's panting. I couldn't forgive myself if I didn't tell you what happened to my Kayte.

    Oh, Traci, of all the people here... it just made me ill to think it was you that I had to tell my story to... I really agonized over this. But I still think I'd rather you be sick with embarrassment and a little poorer - rather than sick with grief. There are treatments and medications for heart disease and my kitten could have lived a more full life had she been diagnosed and treated promptly.

    I still think my kitty was in a small percentage and that Merlin is probably just fine. But the only way to know, is to get the echocardiogram. If the heart is fine, then the panting might be just a kitten thing that he outgrows. At the worst it may be something else minor, but first I'd want to know about the heart.

    Again I have to say; Merlin is probably fine, he's a young kitty in a happy new home and very excited to be playing with you and Dave. Perhaps you can monitor him for a while to see how he does and how much exertion it takes before he starts panting. That could tell you a lot.

    I really didn't mean to scare or upset you. I'm so sorry that I did. Please keep us updated. :YMHUG:
     
  38. Iorwen & Tray

    Iorwen & Tray Well-Known Member

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    Apr 25, 2010
    Re: Panting while playing! Does your cat pant?

    my sister's cat pants after playing she brought him in when it first happened to the vet but he also told her it's normal. My cat just sits with his mouth agape when he's exerted himself too much.
    I hope Merlin is fine.
     
  39. Traci and Boomer

    Traci and Boomer Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: Panting while playing! Does your cat pant?

    Thank you! May I ask what Fuji's symptoms are/were other than panting? I am getting the feeling that the little guy's prognosis isn't good from what you've said. God, I am so sorry to hear that! Poor thing. Of course I'm glad he has you.

     
  40. Traci and Boomer

    Traci and Boomer Well-Known Member

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    Re: Panting while playing! Does your cat pant?

    Hi CD-

    Oh, I know how hard it must have been to tell me your story about sweet little Kayte. It sounds like a horrible experience. My new vet happens to be a vet who does ultrasound and she could do this. She said he'd have to be shaved under the arm but that about it. I'm leaning towards doing it now. I do have the money though my head is spinning that this is "already" happening. I'mm going to talk to her again later.

    On top of this I'm obsessing over his poop issues. The new vet isn't big on feeding the expensive foods and the shelter lady is. The vet said that the expensive food may be "too rich" for him and the shelter lady said the cheap food may be "too rich" for him....hmm. The shelter lady keeps reminding he wasn't sick when he was there! That's true, but he won't eat any of the food she fed him now. So what should I do-leave it out and have him not eat? Try some other foods? Never adopt another cat as long as I live?

     
  41. LynnLee + Mousie

    LynnLee + Mousie Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: Panting while playing! Does your cat pant?

    Fuji was, as you know, living in some trees with his brother. we were coaxing them down to eat and such and one morning he was sitting at the back door. just sitting there. when i approached to see if he would run away, he didn't. what i noticed was that you could see what appeared to be every heartbeat. in other words, his body was beating....if that makes sense.

    i got fiance over and he agreed the kitty had something wrong so we caught him and took him to the vet. turns out what we were seeing was his very rapid breathing (roughly 100bpm that first day at the vet's)

    mind you he was not open mouth panting or anything.

    vet said grade 4 heart murmur, bad constipation, etc....and we all came to the decision that we could pts or see a cardio and see exactly how bad it was.

    after being un-constipated, you'd never think anything was wrong with him and within days his breathing was down to 60-80bpm so we decided to give him a chance at least since he was happy and see the cardio.

    and yes, his prognosis is poor. the cardiologist said she doesn't expect him to see a year old. if he lives longer than that it would be a medical miracle....as Jess can attest to (which, btw Jess, if you are still reading, the paperwork says mitral valve dysplasia-mitral stenosis, double chambered right ventricle, ventricular septal defect, enlarged left atrium, congestive heart failure)

    but, his breathing at rest runs about 40-45bpm now and he takes on every breathing thing in the house on a daily basis, runs as fast as the rest of the cats, eats like a horse, destroys at least 2 toys a week, and loves to be cuddled so as long as he continues in that shape, we're letting him. we also have his brother with him and i think that has probably helped him. his big brother is extremely patient with him too because seriously, the little Fuji-man is quite the handfull when he wants to play. LOL!!

    he takes several meds every day but he doesn't know it. he's discovered that pill pockets are even better than Jack In the Box hamburgers and would eat the whole bag of them if i'd let him so we carry on. he gets lasix, atenolol, and enalapril every day, and a itty bitty bit of baby aspirin every other day. i also give him extra taurine every day and he loves to eat raw chicken hearts (which is really strange given i give them to him to help his own heart LOL!)

    he did have a couple wierd very scary coughing episodes before seeing the cardio which she said would be fluid build up but that stopped after going on the lasix
     
  42. MommaOfMuse

    MommaOfMuse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Re: Panting while playing! Does your cat pant?

    (((((Traci)))) If it helps I have 10 kitties all from various backgrounds, they all refuse the "good" food, and will only eat like Merlin the Cheap canned stuff. So at this point I feed them what they like. They are healthy and happy. Okay a couple are real piggies and slightly over weight but happy. All three of the Meezers will occasionally pant when they play hard, and one seems to pant but when we listened really close he wasn't panting he was purring his little brains out but was purring so hard that he would do it with his mouth open. But if you have the $$ to have Merlin get the Echocardiogram then do it, I don't think you would look like an overreactive idiot, just a concerned Kitty Mom, and at least it would be one more thing to cross off the list. Even with our Onyx before we found out he has allergies we started crossing of the Well its not that list. If the test shows nothing then it can go under the Well it isn't that list. And peace of mind is priceless.

    Mel & Muse (GA)
     
  43. D and Noisy

    D and Noisy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: Panting while playing! Does your cat pant?

    Hi Traci, I'm so glad you have a new friend. Reading your thread here was very interesting. Shortly after Noisy died, 3 feral kittens and their momma appeared in my alley. I call them Noisy's parting gifts or The Cowboys. Anyway, the whole crew pants when playing hard. It has been hot here so that could be a contributor to our panting crew. At first, I was concerned about it but shortly after resting they stop panting so I thought things were ok.
    It sounds like your vet has a good price for the test. Hope all comes out well. I send a kiss to Boomer, who is likely eating dinner with Noisy right now.
     
  44. Traci and Boomer

    Traci and Boomer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: Panting while playing! Does your cat pant?

    Merlin has an appointment scheduled with my vet's husband (vet too) for 3PM tomorrow. When I make a decision I don't waste time. They will shave one of his under arms and do the ultrasound. This will cost $300. But I will know.

    Dave and I have been researching panting and there's a lot of mixed opinions and information out there. It seems that a good amount of cats do pant. The thing is, that I've had cats for 18 years and I don't recall seeing any of them pant, so when he did it I was freaked. We played with him tonight and he did pant. He calms down within 10 seconds. When he sees the toy sometimes he pants just seeing it. Dave is a dog person and he thinks Merlin is excited when he sees the toy and the panting is out of excitement. I saw him go from completely at rest to panting as soon as Dave showed him the toy. It was shocking. So he pants while playing with the toy and sometimes just SEEING the toy and getting excited.

    Food/Poop Update
    It's firmer on the meds but still not perfect. Today I gave him "good" wet food with a tiny bit of "bad" on top and he ate it all. I'm getting better at this! So that's what I think I'll do - still give him the junk but only as a topping. I feel more hopeful. I also got a couple more cans of "good" food that were on the shelter's recommended list. They keep a pretty long list of foods rated by what the cats will eat at thier shelter. Hopefully Mr. I Only Like Cheap Food will like these and it will agree with his belly better.
     
  45. Jess & Earl

    Jess & Earl Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: Panting while playing! Does your cat pant?

    Hi Traci

    I want to address this:

    Some of the advice mentioned in this thread that people have gotten from their vets makes me want to bang my head on the wall. There should be no mixed opinions or conflicting information on cats that show exercise intolerance (panting during exercise). These cats may be over-exerting themselves or they may have a heart or lung condition and you cannot tell the difference without echocardiography and x-rays. I wish I had one of these magic stethoscopes that would allow me to listen to an animal and declare him or her free of heart disease. I could put my cardiologist out of business. So, the safest thing to do with cats that pant while exercising is to screen them for heart disease with an echocardiogram. There is no substitute for this, no stethoscope magic, nothing but echocardiography.

    Now, if the vet says that it *could* be this but it's most likely just over-exertion and there is no way to know without an echocardiogram, and offer to refer for an echo if the people want to pursue it, that's perfectly reasonable. It is probably going to be over-exertion but the family deserves the chance make the choice of whether or not to pursue diagnostics. A few weeks ago we had a 9 year old dog who came in with end-stage heart disease. All over the dog's record we could see that the vet noted the heart murmur every year for years, and the family said the vet was "monitoring it". These people are devoted to their dog and would pull the moon from the sky for her, and certainly would have gone to the cardiologist years ago if given an option. They didn't know that listening to the heart once a year was not going to help. So they now have a dog who is in the last stages of heart failure and feel like the rug's been pulled out from under them. This is why I get so hot under the collar about mis-information or lack of information.

    So panting during exercise can be a sign of a heart problem and should be checked out. Normal cats will pant when overheated (room temp is high) or under stress (car rides are classic). These cats may still have heart disease, but panting in these situations is something that any cat would do if the temp was high enough or the stress was bad enough. Bottom line: exercise intolerance is an eyebrow-raiser much more so than panting during heat or extreme stess.

    Last thing on the echo: as you know I work with a cardiologist and appreciate the difference between an echo done by a specialist and one done by a general practitioner. If the GP tomorrow sees something worrisome, I would recommend that you have any follow-up evaluations done by a cardiologist if there is one within reasonable distance. I know of a traveling cardiologist in the Boston area who is good, and Angell also has a cardiology dept. I'm sure things will be fine with Merlin so I'm just mentioning it just in case.
     
  46. Jess & Earl

    Jess & Earl Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: Panting while playing! Does your cat pant?

    Sorry, a few more comments.

    This kind of ignorance drives me absolutely nuts. If all vets had to tell people that their previously asymptomatic always-been-healthy cat is in severe heart failure as often as the cardiologist does, they would sing a much different tune.

    If it's fine then it is most likely just over-exertion. If he's breathing fine at rest and not coughing/wheezing, it's reasonable to chalk it up to over-exertion.

    What would the naysayers say if you had a cat who started drinking a lot this summer and you considered having bloodwork or a urinalysis done? You'd be performing a screening test to see if there was any other reason -- besides it being hot as the devil out -- for your cat to drink more. You're doing the same here, it's just that the test is more of a hassle and considerably more expensive ;-)

    I suggested this before and will suggest it again ... I would feed him the same food (brand and flavor) day after day until the poo resolves. Doesn't matter what it is (good/bad/cheap/pricey), just as long as he'll eat it consistently give him that and only that. Let his gut get into a routine again since it seems clear that the hubbub started when he got stressed and had a major diet change. Just my $.02 ...
     
  47. Traci and Boomer

    Traci and Boomer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Thanks Jess. Here's the update: his echo is at 3. Luckily I had a half-day because way back when i was going to help transfer a DCIN cat who no longer needs it. Last night we played with him and he panted. It was hot, however, he's panted when it was cool in the house. That face he makes is SO freaky. He started panting just LOOKING at the toy when Dave was playing with him. He be perfectly calm, not panting and Dave took the toy out and as soon as he saw it, he'd pant! I'm freaked out. This is definitely different for me. BF thinks he's excited to play. (he's used to dogs) Maybe he is just excited, but it's not anything I've ever seen before.

    Regarding his food, he's pretty much had the same thing (whiskas and friskies pouches and Evo dry) since he's been here. I've put out a few other wet foods that he won't eat/won't eat much of. Yesterday I decided to change it a little - I'm leaving him some dry EVO out and giving him "good" wet with a tiny bit of the "bad" on top as a teaser. Since the woman from the shelter says he wasn't sick on the foods she gave him for 3 weeks: Evo wet and dry, California Natural wet and dry, I'm going to go back to that. Yesterday he ate the Cal Natural wet as long as it had some "bad" on top. I'm going to keep doing this and wean him off the "bad". I hope that he'll continue to eat for me and start pooping normally.
     
  48. MommaOfMuse

    MommaOfMuse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Crossing all paws and fingers that the test will come back completely normal and you just have a meezer that just gets really excited about finally having beans of his very own to play with.

    Mel & Muse (GA)
     
  49. Traci and Boomer

    Traci and Boomer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Thanks Mel. I can't believe I'm doing this, but I don't want to worry every time I see it. I'm a worrier about my cats. I'm not a perfectionist about much in life, but I've come to realize that when it comes to my pets I'm a complete maniac. I literally can't rest or think straight until I've got things under control. I've got a "cat fund" I can dip into for this expense so I'm okay there, it's just that I'd really like a HEALTHY cat! Wouldn't we all? Pet sickness turns my entire life upside down.
     
  50. MommaOfMuse

    MommaOfMuse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    I know what you mean hon, I will let everything else slide if it is a choice between getting the critters what they need or getting something for me. But I'm the mommie and that is what the mommie does. Up until Muse, I have been blessed with healthy happy kitties and droolers, but Muse taught me so much even in the short time she lived after being DXed. She taught me not to go on blind faith in my vets, she taught me I was far stronger than I thought I was, and unfortunately too late for her to take tons of pictures. The few I have of her are more precious than words. And the most important is that she taught me to be a better fur-mom and not to over look anything that isn't absolutely in that animals character. I would rather spend a fortune to run tests that come back completely normal than to question every cough, sneeze or habit change. And if friends and family don't understand to bad for them, these are my babies, I would do it for my human children so it is what I do for my furry ones. At least the human ones can tell me if they aren't feeling well, my furred ones can't.

    Mel & Muse (GA)
     
  51. Hope + (((Baby)))GA

    Hope + (((Baby)))GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Hope did nothing but stop needing insulin so off we went. Her IM spec caught a weird beat so to the Cardiologist....same building. Echo, EKG, etc. and found the Restrictive Cardiomyopathy. She is still at the same stage when she was dx'd over 3 years ago because it was caught early and the meds are working well. When the Idexx Cardiopet ProBNP test came out I also requested that so we have a baseline to look at and may just check it once a year. Also, chest x-rays may catch some things but that echo and ekg can also be a huge benefit. Mishka gets checked twice a year with both docs and full bloodwork. Hope is done more often. Vinnie went in when I first adopted him because being a feral (?)such a love, and coming from the streets I wanted to make sure everything was okay. His heart is excellent so that is relief. When in doubt, always do an echo and ekg and chest x-ray. It truly pays to have early knowledge of potential heart problems.

    FWIW, cardiologist uses the ProBNP test a lot more on dogs and if questionable about a dog being in heart failure, it can confirm it quickly. IDEXX labs is in their basement.
     
  52. chriscleo

    chriscleo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    sending good luck vibes for you and merlin.
    we went thru this with cleo (maine coon). took her to a board certified cardiologist for the echo and her heart turned out perfectly healthy. hoping you have the same luck. (((HUGS)))
     
  53. Steph & Cuddles (GA)

    Steph & Cuddles (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Sorry I'm late to the game, but Kami used to do that when she was a kitten. Usually that just told me when I needed to stop playing with her, or take her toy away! If they do it for very long though, I'd get them checked out. She only panted for a short while, then stopped. (never panted more than about 5-10 seconds at a time) I was told if it continued, it could be serious.. but once she grew out of her 'kitten crazies' the panting went away!

    Here's a rare pic I got of her panting. It never lasted long, so I was surprised I got this one! If he does it more often, or a lot though, I'd get him checked out.


    [​IMG]
     
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