Pita's Dosing Party:12

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Caitlin M, Mar 11, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    So a strange morning on my part. I was utterly exhausted when I got up for Pita so I'm not sure if I did something or it was a technical issue. I filled his syringe and measured the 2.1 units. Normally when I shoot him, I feel the resistance of the plunger as I inject him, but today I pushed the plunger and it quickly shot forward. That's the best I can describe it at least. So I'm not really sure if I injected him correctly. Based on his midday numbers I'm assuming something weird happened because he never went lower than AMPS. I'll chalk it up to the time change and try to make sure it goes correctly tonight!
     
    Rachel and Kris & Teasel like this.
  2. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    That dang time change has messed us all up!
     
    Caitlin M likes this.
  3. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Well, yesterday was interesting! We all woke up late which completely surprised me. Even Matt and I sleep in past their breakfast time we usually get a not so gentle reminder to get the heck up! Not yesterday- I woke up and both fur boys were curled up in bed and asleep. So, I tested immediately upon realizing and he was a bit high (176). I was planning to shoot and readjust time over the weekend, but then Pita decided that since it was now a brunch, he didn't want any. About 40 minutes later he did finally eat but I (maybe stupidly) decided to NS since it was now extremely late. PMPS wasn't quite as bad as I expected- 238. I decided to start at the 2.1 again and see what we got. AMPS was at 205 so I will continue to hold the 2.1 for the entire day today and bump to 2.2 tomorrow as necessary. But yayyy sleep?! :rolleyes:
     
    Kris & Teasel likes this.
  4. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Yes, yay sleep! Just think of it like a fur shot - he'll get back on track, and hopefully the extra sleep did you all good!
     
    Caitlin M and Kris & Teasel like this.
  5. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Not a terrible day of test numbers, but 254 PMPS. I decided based on the midday numbers and this PS, to just go right to the 2.2 units this evening, instead of waiting until tomorrow morning. Maybe too impatient but I don't think he needed another cycle on the 2.1 units. I'll get lots of midday tests tomorrow as well to see how he does after the am 2.2 dose.
     
    Kris & Teasel likes this.
  6. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    I agree. I think you could probably do those 0.1u increases each cycle until he's back on the 2.4u again since he was just there. Or at least until you get a weird PS or mid-cycle.
     
  7. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Well, this has been a stressful and traumatic afternoon for everyone in my household. I worked from 7-9am today and then came home. Matt got woken up by Brat and Pita fighting, so he got out of bed to break them up. He tested and shot Pita, who ate and behaved normally. When I came home, I went on the bed to snuggle with him and as I moved, got an angry meow/hiss at me. I gave him some space and let him sniff my hand because I was unsure of what happened. He had a look that made me worried, so I kept looking at him as I started cooking, etc. He finally jumped off the bed and Matt said 'oh he's limping really bad'. Pita was indeed limping a lot, favoring his left, hind leg. So naturally, I freaked out. I called a vet nearby and they were able to take us right away. It was a battle but we got him into the carrier and went. Now, I've already chastised myself for this and it was still on my list, but I never received any answers from vets regarding Diabetic treatment, so I didn't have one lined up. Regardless, this vet was 4 minutes away and has some phenomenal Yelp reviews (not that it always matters). Everyone there was nice enough and I gave the history of his treatment, etc. She did say she had treated diabetic cats before, but I feel like our convo wasn't as in-depth as I would have liked. She was able to hold and move his leg around, with him only meow/growling once. No ingrown nails or anything, so she said that he would need x-rays done so they could figure it out. Now, I was very vocal about how nervous I was about him needing sedation and she had the concern as well. We decided to get a pain medication, bring him home and get an estimate for the next step. I was sent home with Buprenex (0.6 mg) and we need to give it to him 2x/day every 12 hours for 3 days. I asked and was told it would not interfere with his ProZinc. The estimate we got for the visit to try to find out exactly what's wrong is roughly $450, which we can do (insert my racing mind thinking about if he needs surgery, etc, etc). That estimate includes bloodwork, x-rays and the use of the sedative 'PropoFlo'. I have been Googling, and I believe it is 'safe' as far as we're concerned with a diabetic cat. Again, they told me that they were very aware and cautious about sedation as well, so they felt confident in this type. We came home, gave the Buprenex and he's now hiding under the bed. We'll keep an eye on him for the rest of the day and we'll be figuring out how soon until we bring him in for the x-rays. His BG #'s have indeed been climbing the past few days and I was going to do a curve today to figure out where he was going. That's obviously not happening now, which is fine, but I'm now definitely inclined to think that they've been rising because of whatever the heck has happened to his hip/leg. So, I'm not sure how coherent any of that was, but that's where we are. If I could type all the swearing going through my mind right now, I would. And I'm also trying not to go worse-case scenario and bawl my eyes out.
     
  8. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    :bighug::bighug::bighug: Poor you! Could he have hurt his leg jumping off the bed after fighting with Brat? Were you noticing some gimpiness before that? I hope this vet turns out to be a good fit for you and Pita but what an introduction! :(:confused:
     
  9. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    I'm not 100% sure on this. He was walking normally this morning as I got ready for work and Matt said there wasn't any limp when he tested him and he jumped onto the bench fine for his shot. (The fight was before that). If I'm being honest, about a month ago I thought he was limping a tiny bit but Matt didn't think so. So, he could have been slightly limping a month ago, but then it seemed to stop. This was all very, very abrupt today.

    I just had my worst-case scenario break down and don't exactly feel better, but at least this round is out of me. He's also now sleeping on the bed.
     
  10. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Is his leg painful if you move it gently? Does his knee seem to bend a bit outward sometimes as he walks? The kneecap can have a problem where is doesn't track properly some of the time: https://www.petmd.com/cat/conditions/musculoskeletal/c_ct_patellar_luxation
    Teasel's brother has this. It was very intermittent early on but now it happens often. It doesn't seem to bother him too much but he's very gimpy when it's out of whack. There's a surgery that can be done but it doesn't always work well or it creates a worse problem than before.
     
  11. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    It almost looked to me like he leg wasn't quite straight when he walked almost like pigeon-toed person. I was/am worried it's a hip thing, but it could be a knee thing. The vet was bending and touching a lot before he made a sound and Matt and I believe it was when she got around his hip area. I'll inspect more the next time he's up and walking.

    he actually just meowled on the bed and we both jumped up. I think he tried to move his leg and it bothered him. I'll be calling the vet soon to schedule the appointment ASAP. If he's yowling as he sleeps on the bed I won't wait a few days before we bring him back.
     
  12. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    The out of kilter knee can certainly affect the hip. It sounds like another vet appointment sooner than later is a good idea.
     
    Caitlin M likes this.
  13. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    UPDATE: He rolled onto his back for Matt to pet his belly and he just sat up and used that leg to scratch his head. So the full scratching motion was just used it the same speed as usual, to scratch his head. We will monitor very closely!
     
    Djamila and Kris & Teasel like this.
  14. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Oh Caitlin, first of all, hugs to you! It's so hard when our babies don't feel well!

    I have so many questions about this. First of all, both of my boys have had x-rays and haven't needed to be sedated. Am I understanding that correctly that the vet wants to sedate just for the x-rays? Did she explain why that's necessary?

    Second, 0.6mL of bupe is a big dose. Sam is prescribed 0.15mL for his pancreatitis and I usually only give half of that at a time. I know he's a little extra sensitive to it, but I'm concerned if the size of that dose is appropriate since they are both about the same weight.

    Also, Sam went gimpy for a few days years ago and after a couple of days rest he was just fine. Since Pita and Brat just got in a fight, he may have just strained something. Definitely go with your gut if you feel like it's more serious than that, but I wonder if giving it at least 24 hours and see if he shows any improvement?

    If they are going to sedate him, I wonder if you could get that dental done and have them take the x-ray while he's under? I'm more inclined to blame that for the rising numbers than a sudden onset leg injury. But again, you've always had good mama sense, so if you think there's something else going on, then it's worth pursuing it.
     
  15. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    I just spoke with Matt about the sedation/x-rays and here's what we remember. She asked us to help lay Pita on his side so she could contort and look at his leg. Now, maybe when he's sleeping he will, but pita obviously wasn't quite willing to just let us plop him onto his side. Therefore, she said he would need to be sedated so they could move him and get the x-rays where needed. Does that make sense? I'm obviously not sure how x-rays work for cats, but if he needs to be completely still and on his side, I'm not sure they'd be able to do it. As far as the Bupe, well, CRAP. He weighs 16.9 (so 17 lbs). We gave the full dose so we'll do our best to see how he reacts to it. Yes, we're planning to see how he does the next 24 hours and go from there, but I'd still be hesitant to leave it alone if it got better. Regarding the dental-she didn't even look at his teeth (probably because it wasn't a routine visit) and I didn't mention it. Things with that though, I'd be worried about cost, since the MA estimate was over $1,000, I'm not sure we'd be able to swing it. Also, I wonder if they would do a dental, even if they don't look at his teeth beforehand? I can call and ask. Ugh, it just sucks because I don't fully trust her, because I haven't dealt with her before this and of course I'm not a vet so I 'have' to try to believe what she's saying is true. FFFFFFFFF
     
  16. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Oh geez! Nevermind on the weight. Sam is only 11-12 pounds. I really thought I remembered them being about the same size!

    From what I've read, the recommended dose is 0.01-0.04/kilo. At 17 pounds...that's 7.7kg, so the dose would be 0.077 to 0.3, although symptoms trump dose size, so you can give more than 0.3 if he needs it to keep the pain manageable.

    That's a good point about the cost of the dental - especially since he hasn't been her patient she would have to do a blood panel and physical first anyway, so probably better to let that go for now. I was just thinking how to avoid both the expense and the experience of sedating him twice.
     
    Caitlin M likes this.
  17. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Ok, of course I've been Googling every single thing since we've been home. I know there are always just as many opposite answers to what we find, but this is making me feel a bit better regarding the Propofol:"

    However, some leg X-rays, such as those involving the hips, require sedation regardless of temperament. It’s imperative your cat remain perfectly motionless during hip X-rays, therefore a light sedative is necessary. Propofol is an ultrashort-acting intravenous anesthetic with a 5- to 10-minute duration of anesthesia after induction, with the patient being remarkably alert on recovery. Because of its short duration of action, it is ideal for short procedures and sedations.
     
    Djamila likes this.
  18. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Oh Caitlin, I'm so sorry! I hope that Pita is fine. I tend to think it's some sort of strain or whatever from the fight with Brat myself, but as Djamila said, your mama sense trumps! If the stuff they are going to give is like a gas, my kitty may have had it before. They give it to Elektra and she's usually fine. It lasts about that time frame and then she's a little sleep after, but fine by the time we get home!
     
    Caitlin M likes this.
  19. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Please do keep us updated on how he's doing. I kept finding myself thinking about him when I went back to work earlier. Funny how we can worry over people (and cats) we've never met! Sending healing vines to Pita and peaceful ones to you. I hope a good night's rest and some pain meds help bring him quick healing!
     
    Caitlin M likes this.
  20. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    This makes me feel better, thank you for sharing Rachel! I
    I absolutely will! I'd like to video him walking just so you can all see. He seemed to be his usual sleepy, purring self before I left for work again. We'll be giving the second dose of Bupe tonight and see where his PS number is as well. Thank you so much for your thoughts, I can't tell you all how much I appreciate them.
     
  21. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Hello all! I went to work from 7-9am and Pita was up and moving a bit before I left. When I got home he was sleeping but I had to wake him up for the Bupe. Which, by the way he HATES. He's never been easy to deal with giving any medication to, but omg it breaks my heart. I have to gently do the sitting on him thing while I push the syringe into his mouth (feeder syringe). He starts drooling and snapping his face back and forth. Then after we're successful he gives me this face that I swear is him plotting his revenge. But oh well, it seems to help! Compared to yesterday, he's walking so, so much better. Matt and I are obviously still going to do the x-rays just to see what we find, but I'm inclined to think if it was broken or fractured he wouldn't be doing this well. So hopefully, fingers crossed, say our prayers, it won't be anything too bad.
    Also, got a better AMPS than the past few days, but I'm still unsure if I should continue to increase every three cycles. Thoughts?
     
  22. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    A couple of nights ago you got a green on a 2.5u, so I am inclined to say hold, but here's no data from most of yesterday. Did you skip the PM shot?
     
  23. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Oh shoot! No we didn't, I evidently didn't add it in. Okay, all corrected!
     
  24. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    I'm not sure I'm going to be able to explain what I'm thinking very well, so bear with me....

    -On 3/15 you were at 2.4u and he was getting some nice mid-cycle numbers
    -On 3/17 you had a NS which usually throws them off for a couple of days. When you resumed insulin after the NS, you dropped down to 2.1 instead of 2.4u. So the fact that the mid-cycles were higher isn't surprising - he was getting less insulin.
    -On 3/20 and 3/21 you reached 2.4u again and that PM dose on 3/20 was the green.
    -On 3/22, he got hurt so we could expect higher numbers, although there are no mid-cycles (you had enough going on!) to verify, but I would guess he wasn't showing you any pretty greens when he was hurting and spent time at the vet.
    -Today is 3/23, and he's feeling somewhat better, but still on pain meds. Inflammation raises numbers, so what you're seeing right now is probably temporary - and as his leg heals he'll get some better numbers again.

    So my thinking from all of that is that his numbers aren't actually creeping up. There was a NS and then less insulin, so I think that's what has made the numbers higher. Now piling onto that the inflammation from his leg injury. I would bet in the next couple of days as he heals things will start to look better again, but he'll still probably in the 2.4-2.6ish range where he's been for the past month.

    As for if you should increase or not, that's tricky. When Sam is having a pancreatitis flare, I do increase his dose to try to stay on top of it, but then I monitor a little extra because when he starts to feel better I need to be ready to lower it again. So it's kind of a guess. 2.6u wasn't really enough today, but I would keep that dose for tonight and get a mid-cycle if you can, and then if the AMPS is on the higher end you could try a little more, if it's lower you could stay at 2.6u for another cycle. I think you're just going to have to kind of guess-and-check for the next few days.

    How's that for not very helpful? :confused:o_O:rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2018
  25. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Hahaha oh Djamila! I love the in-depth thought process. There really are so many things but it's always helpful for that outside eye to weigh in! I'll stick with the 2.6 tonight and definitely get at least a before-bed test. I'll be able to test a ton this weekend so I'll plan that as well. But yeah, it sucks that his leg probably isn't helping at all! I'm in the same thought as you are with Sam though, that if they keep creeping, I'll increase the dose to at least match what he's giving. Then after all this leg stuff clears up (positive thinking) I'll lower and adjust from there. See, I think I understood everything you said?!! :joyful:
     
    Kris & Teasel and Djamila like this.
  26. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Exactly! :D
     
    Caitlin M likes this.
  27. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    How's Pita doing today?
     
  28. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Gosh, before his PMPS I would have said great! His walking is actually back to normal so that's good. I'm going to call the vet tomorrow and get her opinion on how soon to being him back in. My concern is thinking 'oh he's walking fine again, leave it alone' and then in another month something horrible happened again. I'd rather spend the money now and make sure things are okay, even if he seems back to normal.
    Into PS- ugh?! I was hoping to get way more midday tests this weekend but unfortunately that didn't happen. I'm stumped on what to do and a bit baffled by how I handled the last NS. Why did I start so low again?! So yeah, I gave 2.6 tonight but am guessing I need to increase again.
     
  29. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Merp! Well that's quite a jump! Wonder if he's still feeling a bit of pain from the leg and that's what caused such a high number? Really it could be anything...contraband, pain, "Oh look a squirrel"....you know how it is. Give Pita a day and see how he is. It probably is increase time based on his other readings...he's not going down a lot. But maybe talk to the vet about the leg first and see what they suggest about bringing him back in. Is he still on the bupe or is he done with it for now?
     
    Djamila likes this.
  30. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I'm glad his leg seems better. :)
     
  31. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Bupe is done.
     
  32. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    He could be walking on it again, but still have some inflammation. I do wish his numbers were coming back down though. Keep us posted on what the vet says about a re-check. Hugs to you and Pita!
     
    Caitlin M likes this.
  33. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Well, I'm not going to jump for joy quite yet, BUT the 2.8 units seems to be giving pretty nice numbers again so far! So yay! I just hung up the phone with the vet. She was pleasantly surprised that he's walking normally again after a full three days of Bupe. She agreed that if it is definitely back to normal, we can dismiss the x-rays for now. We decided to give him Bupe once a day for a bit longer, then give him 5-7 days without it, to make 100% that his walking is okay again. If we see even the slightest limp, we will bring him in for x-rays immediately and go from there. The amount of time she just spent listening to me on the phone and working with me actually makes me pretty comfortable, so hopefully, we can just stick with her for the Diabetes. I'll ask her a couple key questions, but I think she may be good for us.
     
    Rachel and Kris & Teasel like this.
  34. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Awesome news about the vet AND Pita! Hope the limp was just a passing thing. 2.8 does seem to be giving some nice numbers!
     
  35. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Hey, if you squint a little that was almost a green! I'm so glad to hear he's still walking okay even without the bupe for a little bit, though I think a little dose for a few more days sounds like a good idea. It's also great to hear that she seems like she might be a good partner in his care. Now fingers crossed that Pita and Brat can play nice for a little while longer until Pita is back at full strength!
     
    Caitlin M and Rachel like this.
  36. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    I'm feeling a bit crappy. His numbers don't seem to be getting much better and I'm so sad. I feel like since we moved he hasn't been doing as well and I feel like it's my fault. Am I not increasing enough, is he not as happy here... The thoughts suck this am. Any thoughts on his dosing? Thanks all.
     
  37. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Take heart, Caitlin. :bighug: Yes, there are more colours on his SS (but it's not horrible by any means) and your dose is increasing. He's also bouncier than he has been in the past. FD is such a dynamic process and most of them go through better or worse periods. I can't recall if a dental checkup/procedure has been discussed recently. That can be awfully expensive but it can have a major impact on regulation. Sometimes, though, real world finances put a huge constraint on what we can do. His recent leg injury didn't help either.

    You could try 3 u soon. You were at that dose and a bit higher in early Feb.
     
    Caitlin M likes this.
  38. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Thank you. I know overall he is still doing well and I am thankful that he hasnt had as rough aa journey as I know some cats have had. I'll definitely increase the dose either this evening or tomorrow morning. He does still need a dental/extractions but unfortunately, yeah money is the issue. I'd have half available on my Care Credit (assuming he won't need leg/hip x-rays). I think the best plan is to see what happens with his leg and in a couple weeks if he didn't need x-rays, I can see if the vet would do a payment plan for the remainder of a procedure.
     
    Djamila likes this.
  39. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    +4 was just at 78. So now I'm not sure about increasing!?
     
  40. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Might have stopped bouncing so I'd leave the dose alone for now. Cats! :confused:
     
    Caitlin M likes this.
  41. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    You can only do so much. For now dose around the issues.
     
    Djamila and Caitlin M like this.
  42. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    I'm sorry you're feeling kind of down, Caitlin. I totally get it! You should see the times I've vented about my kitties issues...it helps sometimes!

    I really don't think the blame is on the move. That could have made him higher for a few days, but I really don't think it would cause him to stay high. I think it's more likely the leg injury/dental issues. As Kris said...you can do only what you can do. You just gotta dose around it until you can do something about it.

    Please don't blame yourself. I know that's easy for me to say, but really, I don't think this is your fault AT ALL. Come vent whenever you need to!
     
    Caitlin M and Djamila like this.
  43. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Yes to everything Kris and Rachel said, so I'm just here to leave this: :bighug:

    And also to say that I feel your pain. I think we both got spoiled from months with long columns of blues and greens on a teeny tiny dose. This new phase of the journey is rough. :blackeye:
     
    Caitlin M and Kris & Teasel like this.
  44. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    What would I do without all of you?!! Thank you so much for the kind words and understanding (as always). :kiss:
     
  45. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Hi everyone! Hope things are going well.
    Pita has a couple more days of Bupe left, then the 5 or so days without to see his walking. He's been (knock on wood) doing perfectly well and hasn't had any issues.
    Numbers wise, I'm pulling my hair out. Any feedback on whether to possibly reduce or just keep increasing would be greatly appreciated.
     
  46. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Edit: test was late this am because he gave Matt a hard time. He's now snuggled in bed and hasn't eaten. It may also be a NS for the am....I don't think anything is necesaneces wrong- he does this on occasion also.
     
  47. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    You've got some great green nadirs on your SS. There's a bit of bouncing into yellow but I like what 1.2/1.4 u is doing.
     
  48. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Thanks Kris! I think I misunderstand your units though- we're giving 3.2 units currently.
     
  49. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Oops! You're right - 3 u. :confused:
     
  50. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    :p so you think stick with the 3.2 for a few more days or go up to 3.4?
     
  51. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Either/or. Your call I think. Or split the difference - 3.3.
     
    Caitlin M likes this.
  52. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Caitlin - when he wouldn't eat this morning, was he just not hungry at shot time and he ate later, or has he been slow to eat all day?
     
  53. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    He evidently wasn't hungry at shot time. I tested him at +6 and he ate his snacks then ate the wet food right afterwards. He slept and snuggled on the bed before the +6.
     
  54. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    He actually just sat by the food and meowed. It really is his snack time, so I put it down and he's eating. How dare I almost forget!
     
  55. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    They do have an uncanny ability to tell time!

    Okay, I was just wondering if the high numbers might be something like pancreatitis, but if he ate well later he probably just wasn't hungry.

    Was it Matt who was taking care of t/f/s this morning? Was anyone around between AMPS and +6? Sometimes a kitty doesn't want to eat when their numbers get higher. If he'll eat a couple of treats, and if someone is around, it's usually okay to go ahead and give the injection and then just keep an eye on things. I use treats as my "test" because if a kitty is really sick they won't even eat treats. If Sam will eat treats then he gets his shot.

    If he still won't eat regular food by +2, then you can start monitoring and feeding whatever will entice him. But at least with Sam, so far I've always been able to get him to eat by +2. You wouldn't want to risk that if no one is there to monitor and bribe him if needed though.

    As for the dose, I can't decide what to make of that pink this morning. Sometimes Pita just does that. It could be a bounce from an overnight low. Or it could be he needs another increase. I think I would wait and see what tomorrow brings before the next increase. See if he gets back to down to his usual yellow/blues. He did hit a couple of greens at this dose so he's not doing that badly. If he stays high tonight and in the morning then go to 3.4u.

    I definitely understand the "pulling my hair out" feeling (and crying a little in my case). It's so hard to see them getting these numbers and these high doses. I just keep reminding myself that Sam (and Pita) needs as much insulin as he needs, and I can't get upset that it's more than I wish it was. Hugs to you! Your dosing looks really good, so just hang in there and keep giving him lots of love and snacks. :smuggrin::bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
    Caitlin M likes this.
  56. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    137 PMPS. I'm thinking a reduction?!! Hopefully someone can help soon. Thanks!
     
  57. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    According to past PS #'s, he hasn't had a number like this since only getting 3.0 units. Wondering if I should lower to that. Now that I look, he had PS #'s like this in early March, at the low 2's unit. Aaaahhhhh!
     
  58. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Okay, this may turn out to be a horrible mistake but I just feel like I should dose lower :confused: think I'll do 2.2 Gah, I may be acting really dumbly but only time will tell!
     
    Magic Johnson likes this.
  59. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    I think that was fine. Mama sense is a thing...I've dosed based on it before. And besides, all data is good data right?
     
    Magic Johnson and Caitlin M like this.
  60. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Wait..Pita got a 137 after a cycle of no insulin?!? Well, I think that answers our question about if it's too much too litttle or just a weird cycle with those pinks. Looks like too much and he's dumping glucose. Good call on lowering. Of course how much lower is the big question. I think you chose well for last night, but the next few days may require some guess work. Oh Pita....you're not making it easy on your mama!
     
    Magic Johnson and Caitlin M like this.
  61. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    154 AMPS. Oh gosh I think he was dumping glucose and maybe not feeling well! Gah. Well, we shot the 2.2 again and I'll get one or two tests before I go back to work.
     
    Djamila likes this.
  62. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Well look at that! I'm guessing he hasn't been too much for long. He's been injured and on bupe and now he's feeling better. Needs can change pretty quickly as they heal. I wonder what his night cycles have looked like since the AM cycles haven't been giving much indication. Too bad we can't just go without sleep....:rolleyes:
     
    Caitlin M likes this.
  63. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    56 @ +5. Matt will test again in an hour so we'll see where he goes!
     
    Rachel likes this.
  64. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Woah! Okay, Pita, guess you're trying to say you're feeling better?
     
    Caitlin M likes this.
  65. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Well, I'm so confused about what to do with his dosing. I'm still giving 2.2 units and he's getting some really good midday numbers. PMPS have been a tiny bit higher. It feels so counterintuitive but I'm going to drop it to only 2 units and see what he does. May be a huge mistake but I'll go back up if needed. Oy!
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2018
    Magic Johnson and Djamila like this.
  66. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Well reducing definitely brought his PS numbers down, even if the nadir was a little flattish. His numbers are a little odd right now, but for what it's worth, I think you're doing a great job of tinkering with it to figure out what is best for him. :bighug:
     
    Caitlin M likes this.
  67. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Well, numbers have been pretty good overall! However, now I'm back to what to do with dosing. Stay at the 2.0 units for a while longer, bump up to 2.2 again or go against all odds and try 1.8? I know there's no clear, definitive answer regardless of my data, just a couple opinions because I'm just stuck. Thanks all!
     
  68. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Hmmm...you could try a fat 2 for a few days (because why not just split the odds :rolleyes:) and see what that does?

    There's really no way to know what Pita is going to do. That 2.2 wasn't really giving you bad numbers...so that could be a good option too. I might go fat 2 for a bit and see what happens and if it doesn't bring the numbers down some, go back up to 2.2?
     
    Caitlin M likes this.
  69. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Hello everyone! First, thanks @Rachel for the fat 2 auggestisu. It seems to be good!
    Second, I wanted to see if this was a reoccurring thing and it definitely has been. Pita has been SO much hungrier lately at night. He has his breakfast and snack at +9 during the day. After dinner though, he demands a snack around midnight and now also around 5:30am. I've been honoring it all and using the timed feeders because those times suck for me. He drinks a bit longer when he gets water but nothing even close to before he was diagnosed. I do think that may be from the weather. All other behavior is normal. I'm trying to remind myself that this is still the first year in LA, so he also may be getting used to the weather, air changes, etc. I'll weigh him today but just wanted to throw it out there because of course it also makes me a bit nervous. Happy Saturday!
     
  70. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    @Rachel are you available?! Got an 80 PMPS- first strip was 85, second was 76, so that's the median. Really not sure if I should just NS or reduce to a Fat 1. Any suggestion?
     
  71. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Oh wow. How late can you stay up?
     
  72. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    I don't think I'd NS if you can avoid it. Can Pita have food overnight?
     
  73. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Okay. That was my original thought also so I may just do the Fat 1? I can either stay up late/get up to test. Yes, either way he has a treat snack at about midnight then a wet snack around 5:30am. But when I test tonight I can steer if need be.
     
  74. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    I think a fat 1 sounds like a good option. You'll probably be able to tell by +2 what direction he's headed tonight. Fingers crossed he just holds steady so you can sleep!
     
    Caitlin M likes this.
  75. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Thanks Djamila! So good to hear from you. Hope you and Sam are both doing fantastic!
     
  76. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    It's good to be back! I've been on vacation/work trip for a few days and then trying to get caught up on everything. Sam did well with the pet sitter and is now trying to walk across the keyboard while crying in an attempt to convince me that if I don't give him some treats right now he will die. This despite two full plates of perfectly good food sitting just a few feet away. :rolleyes:
     
    Caitlin M likes this.
  77. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    LOVE THIS!!:cat:
     
    Djamila likes this.
  78. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Oh wow! So sorry I wasn't here Caitlin...glad Djamila was though! Her advice was, as always, perfect! Looks like it turned out good. :)

    Djamila, that is HILARIOUS!
     
    Caitlin M and Djamila like this.
  79. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    That was a lovely flat cycle last night. Well done! Did you have to steer him much, or was his regular food/snacks enough? I'm wondering if it might be worth considering reducing him a bit this morning and see how he does. The cycles right before yesterday didn't indicate needing to reduce, but even with that reduced dose last night, he didn't rise. Maybe a 2 or a skinny 2 (depending on how fat your fat 2 has been). Or you could keep the fat 2 and just keep an eye on the next couple of cycles?
     
  80. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    No steering on my end last night! I'll be at work but Matt will call me after his AMPS so I'll see where he settled for dosing then. I do agree that a reduction may still be needed.
     
  81. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    105 AMPS. Told Matt to give 1.5 units. I don't feel comfortable giving 2 and I think he needs more than 1. So we'll see where he goes.
     
    Djamila, Rachel and Kris & Teasel like this.
  82. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Looks like that 1.5u did well for him yesterday!
     
    Caitlin M likes this.
  83. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Hello all! Well, it's been a crazy ride the last couple days for Pita. In a good way. Gave a Fat 2 this am because he was getting a bit higher, but I know his dosing hasn't been consistent because of that green PMPS the other day. Anywho- he had steady but lime green midday numbers today. I steered him the whole time and he's finally above 50 so that's good. I'm guessing he's going to have a low PMPS as well unless he bounces. Assuming he doesn't bounce and I just get a low PS again, I'm already unsure of what to dose. I'd like to avoid another few days of inconsistent dosing on my part, but I know sometimes that can't be helped. So any and all input will either be great or not help my decision at all :joyful:
     
  84. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    What about something around the 1.7 or 1.8 range? And if you're worried about inconsistent dosing, look at my spreadsheet. It's a giant mess lately. :oops: It will make you feel better. Knock on wood, I think I'm finding the sweet spot (at least for a day or two until his needs change again).

    Thankfully Pita tends to take his dose changes in stride and doesn't overreact to them. I agree that 1.5 wasn't enough, but fat 2 is too much. Pita is okay in those high limes, but you needed to steer, so he needs a reduction. If you're hunch is right and he ends up with a low PMPS, then maybe do a bigger reduction for tonight depending on just how low the PMPS ends up being, and then try something between the 1.5 and the f2 for tomorrow morning?
     
    Caitlin M likes this.
  85. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Wow Pita! Hmmm...I'd definitely reduce. He seemed to get pretty good numbers yesterday, so maybe 2 for a similar number or 1.8 for lower? It's hard to know what to do! I think if it was me, I'd do 2 for a 160 or higher and 1.8 for lower. Of course, if he hits something like that green, you'd want to go even lower...so basically I'm no help at all. :p
     
    Caitlin M likes this.
  86. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    LOL...you are always helpful, @Rachel !!! I hadn't really thought about trying different doses like that with Pita, although now that you mention it, I think Caitlin did try that a loooong time ago, and it worked alright with him, didn't it?
     
    Caitlin M likes this.
  87. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Youre right, it was a long time ago so I'd have to look at it again.
    You're always a help Rachel! I do like that idea of dosing based on PS range. I guess we'll see what happens tonight first!

    Thanks SO much ladies
     
  88. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    95 PMPS. Looking at the other night, maybe 1.4 or 1.6.....Anyone....?
     
  89. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Thinking of trying 1.6 and I'll obviously get at least one test before bed/during the night!
     
  90. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Errrrr, or is 1.4 maybe better?! I'm looking at the past couple days and just can't decide! Will wait another ten minutes in case of help and then I'll just roll the dice!
     
  91. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    What about going with a 1u like you did the other night?
     
  92. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Or maybe that's too cautious. Maybe a 1.2? Geez this is hard! Why don't they come with instructions!!!
     
    Caitlin M likes this.
  93. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    I just had the feeling that it wasn't actually enough because the next few PS kept getting higher..? Also, if I try the 1.8 for 159 and lower/2.0 for 160 and higher, I think maybe somewhere above 1.0 would be best for anything lower than say, 100 or so? Frick why is this so hard for me tonight.
     
    Djamila likes this.
  94. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    I may just do the 1.4 and if I need to steer tonight, I'll know to try 1.2 next time there's a lower PS like this.
     
    Djamila likes this.
  95. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    It just makes me nervous to send him low again after being down there all day today. Plus you need sleep. So maybe 1.2 to 1.4, but I think I'd lean toward the lower end. Even if he's a little higher tonight, he's still in good numbers, and then you won't have to stay up all night testing.
     
    Caitlin M likes this.
  96. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    As long as you're okay staying up, then 1.4 makes sense. I'm just such a baby about getting enough sleep! :rolleyes:
     
  97. Caitlin M

    Caitlin M Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Haha I really am too, so you know what, 1.3 tonight it is!! :p
     
    Djamila likes this.
  98. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Lol...always the middle way! Somehow it's comforting to split the difference on these nights when it's hard to decide. I hope he surfs safely for you tonight so you can get some rest!
     
    Caitlin M likes this.
  99. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Lol! I love splitting the difference...it's a good way to go when you don't know how to go! Yeah, you know I usually wouldn't suggest a sliding scale, but with Pita, it just seems to make sense. You know that if you skip his shots, he'll get off track and he's doing SO WELL...plus you have so much experience at this, that it's a lot more safe for you to decide to shoot on lower numbers. Basically, I don't really like sliding scales, but for some people they just work best!
     
    Caitlin M likes this.
  100. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    He looked good last night! Looks like that dose was about as perfect as you could you wish for. Good job to both of you! :):cat:
     
    Caitlin M likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page