Pita's Dosing Party: 5

135 AMPS. Decided to NS because I'd like to see if the midday snack will help at all. Since he's been getting it for so long, I feel like it was a pretty big change not to eat it. But who knows! I also go back to work tomorrow so I won't be able to do any testing between PS times.

 

It's been nice that you've been home more during his slide down the dosing scale! Hopefully last night was just weird and he'll get back to those greens today!

 

Maybe he was just stressing about not having it

 

I know even if we have to micro dose again, he's still doing great so I can't be sad!

 

He does have a bit of a history of roller-coastering up and down and up and down on the dosing, doesn't he? I really do hope he can hang onto the NS's though! Have you been setting the feeder to give a +9 snack during the night? It seems to be really helping with your PMPS's.

 

I have been! So hopefully he'll go back down.

 

+7.5 was a nice 72. Will have snack at +9 and I'll be home for PMPS. Fingers crossed!

 

I'm trying to figure out what this means for our kitties. If they are above 120 at pre-shot, but are in greens on their own the rest of the day, do they need insulin? Should we be giving them something so that their pre-shots are under 100? 120? But if their pre-shots are under whatever number, then we shouldn't really be shooting anyway, should we? So it ends up in cycles of sometimes giving a little insulin, and sometimes not?

I think I could get away with giving Sam small doses right now because he's only getting into the high 90's on his own, but Pita is dropping into the 60's and 70's by himself, despite the pre-shot numbers, so I don't know if you could safely give him any insulin anyway, especially since you're going back to work and can't monitor.

This part is so perplexing!

 

You took the thoughts right out of my head and made sense of them so much better than I could! I forget which member it was, but they recently went into remission and I looked at the SS one day. There were a few mid/high 100's in the 14 days where she didn't give insulin and he still made it through without any doses. I agree though, if he's getting this low, I don't feel like I necessarily need to dose him! We'll have to see PMPS but I also agree that since I'll be back to work tomorrow, I'd be hesitant to dose on a 130's in case it drops him below 50. I know last night and this morning are the highest he's been with no Insulin but yeah...he's still getting low on his own. :: Shoulder shrug::

 

101 PMPS. No shot. Will test before bed! I'm so sad I have to go back to work. I actually liked getting all these midday numbers and he's doing SO well with them. Oh well, real life calls Oh! I also think that snack definitely helped!

 

So I've been digging around and reading a lot of threads and spreadsheets for OTJ kitties. What I'm finding is that over on the Lantus forum, they really push for kitties to run between 50-80 without insulin. It's a little trickier on Prozinc since we have smile curves instead of flat curves. We can't dose our kitties as low as they can on Lantus since we don't usually shoot on greens, and if we do we have to be very very very careful about it. From what I've read over in Lantus, the lower you can get the pre-shots before stopping insulin, the better chance that the remission will "stick" instead of just being temporary. Apparently letting a kitty hang out in the lower blues leaves them more susceptible to relapse. So while you can call a kitty OTJ with pre-shots in the lower 100's, it might not be as successful. That seems especially true for longer-term diabetics and kitties on their second diagnosis. Pita isn't exactly long-term yet (under six months), and is on his first diagnosis, so he has a better chance of continuing to work his way down than Sam does.

Also, I still don't know how you could safely be dosing Pita right now anyway with the mid-cycles he's getting on his own. Even a drop would probably send him into the 50's. So I kind of think for Pita you need to just keep watching and hoping that the pre-shots come down. And keep an eye on the mid-cycles whenever you can to make sure they are still dropping. Since Sam isn't getting those mid-cycle drops like Pita is, I think I'm going to give him a few more days, and then probably start Lantus to see if I can't get him into some better pre-shots that might give a better chance at long-term success. If he drops lower I'll stay with the NS's, but if he stays where he is, I think we've got enough room for some safe downward movement now.

I'm sorry you have to go back to work! Time off is so lovely!!! And it has been nice to get a really clear picture of what Pita's doing in the middle of the day right now so you know how low he's getting. Have a good first day back!

 

Hopefully Pita does just come down gently on his own!

Lantus for Sam might be the best tactic since you have it already....and as you say they can shoot lower than we can so maybe that will help push Sam back into...well I won't say it, but you know!

 

Sam has been having a few low cycles, and then a few high cycles, so I am trying to wait this out for a couple of cycles to see if he drops again. If he hasn't dropped in the next couple of days, we're busting open that L pen. (sorry for hijacking your thread, Caitlin).

 

Good plan! Maybe just showing it to him will help.

 

Wave it around in front of him a little....

Yes, sorry Caitlin! I kind of jumped in and hijacked it.

 

No worries!

 

190 AMPS. Giving .1 and forgoing the gym this am so I can at least get a +2 before work. We'll see what it does again!

 

+2 was 136. Feeder is set for +9. Will see him when I'm home!

 

I know you're looking forward to it! Have a good first day back!

 

Looking good on this tricky part of the FD journey!

 

Oh no! Pita!!! Of course he does a 190 as you head back to work for the day! Good call on the shot/dose today, but I'm sorry it messes up your count

Have a good first day back at work!

 

Thanks all!

 

140 PMPS. Better than this am! Going to stick with the .1 for now still.

 

154 AMPS. I'm a bit mad at myself because I slept through my alarm to test him last night, so I honestly have no idea how low he's getting. I will do everything I can to take one tonight. Holding the .1 because I'm not feeling too confident .2 would be good yet. And of course this happens when I'm back at work and can't midday test! Oh cats....

 

They always know how to confuse us...but they're so cute you can't get mad at them!

Sometimes you need a little sleep Caitlin, it's okay!

 

+2.5 was 88. I don't know what to make of this. I gave food before I left.

 

I think Pita will be fine (always a fan of leaving food though!). If you look at the AM cycle on 6/26, he didn't drop much after the +2.

I think sticking with the 0.1 (or less) is the way to go until the weekend. You have enough data from last week to know that he's responding to just a teeny tiny amount of insulin, and to know that he's able to bring himself down pretty well, so regardless of the pre-shots, I wouldn't raise the dose.

 

Thanks Djamila! I agree about not changing doses until after this weekend when I'll probably do a curve also. Always exciting!!

 

Come on Pita!

 

165 PMPS. Giving .1 and definitely plan to do a curve this weekend. He's acting like he was with no shots in the fact that he's waiting for his brother to eat first. When his numbers and dosing was higher, he would either eat at the same time, or barge in first and Brat would wait. But he's waiting/second to eat again. Just an interesting observation. Part of me doesn't even want to shoot tonight just to see what happens.

 

Interesting for sure!

 

Last night's +5.5 was 61. 86 AMPS, no shoot, +2.5 was 90.

 

Getting back on track!

 

Lol yes it seems so!

 

138 PMPS. My gut told me to NS, so I'm just gonna go with it! Im working late tonight so I'll do a test before bed.

 

112 at +4. Hmm, where is this heading.....?!

 

Looks like he still wants a tiny bit of insulin.

 

AMPS is 111. I'm not comfortable shooting at this low in the 100's if I'm gone all day.

 

All right Pita, coming on back down!

 

I wonder how low he got last night, but only went up to his +4 from PMPS! It's been a crazy week so far!

 

Looks awfully good to me - mind you I'm immersed in the colours of the rainbow most of the time.

 

What in the.....!!!???? 227 PMPS. The last yellow he had was the end of June. Just strange to see. Will test before bed tonight and definitely, definitely doing a curve this weekend.

 

What are you doing Pita???

 

I'm so stumped because his behavior is back to his pre-diabetes days! The way he's eating, his playfulness, it's all just a tad bit different than he had been when he had higher numbers. Aaaahhh!!

 

I should say that I know his numbers have been great lately so I understand one higher number probably won't change his behavior. It's just all an interesting place we're in!

 

Hopefully it'll just be a one off. Usually when they start down the scale like he has, they have fits and starts where they get some higher numbers...unfortunately remission doesn't usually happen all at once. With luck, this will just be one yellow and more blues will follow!

 

I think I just assumed it would happen all at once, so that gives me so much hope! Thanks Rachel.

 

Pita has also shown this pattern before. He went down the dosing scale for awhile, then back up higher, and then slid way down this time, so this may just be part of his up and down pattern before he slides right off the end. Hang in there!

 

Yes his pattern, each lower time getting closer so maybe the next one he will side into remission

 

Happy Friday everyone! 142 PMPS. I'm home all night and am doing his curve tomorrow. My question is, should I give .2 this evening and get a test before bed/maybe run the risk of a bounce? Or give .2 tomorrow morning and at least see where he goes throughout the day? I think I should maybe go back to .2 again....?? Yeah, any advice would be lovely!

 

Why not just stick with 0.1 because it's less likely to result in a NS at the other end?

 

Haha, and here I was just ready to climb back up in units. I can definitely do that. What are your thoughts on giving .2 again Kris?

 

Your SS shows that 0.2 u has resulted in a NS at the next dose time fairly often. I suggested 0.1 u to try to get his numbers to a place where you can give that tiny dose both AM and PM. My feeling is that more consistency in PSs and dose given is the way to go. Having said that, I'm no expert on easing a kitty into remission with micro doses.

 

That all makes sense actually. So maybe by continuing micro doses, he may slide into remission? I'd prefer to keep him steady and consistent rather than bouncing, so let's see what tomorrow brings!

 

Remission does seem to be a possibility looming over the horizon for Pita. He's the only one who can do it, though.

 

Lol true, true

 

Heyyy Caitlin, does your little ice pack in the WO pet feeder last til it opens for Pita? I bought one since I'll be working soon but the ice pack is sooo tiny and extra one's are almost as much as getting another feeder! Haha!

 

I totally agree with Kris about holding the dose tonight and then doing the curve. But....I'm wondering if a small increase might add some duration and help to bring the pre-shots back down again. This is a little tricky, and takes some monitoring (I know....work...), but I noticed in June with Sam that a little increase in dose didn't seem to bring his nadir down much lower, but it did make him stay low a bit longer. Too much of an increase totally backfired though and pushed him higher, so there's a bit of finesse involved (okay, it was total guessing).

 

Heyy! Yes actually, it does! I know, it doesn't look like much, but if I freeze it when I'm home from work, by the time I put it in the feeder in the am, it's still very cold to the touch when I'm home again. Hope that helps!

 

Hahahahaha oh I love that this made me laugh at such an early hour. That's pretty cool that you figured that dosing/staying low out with Sam! After today I'll make the call of going back to .2 maybe for tomorrow. It won't be a curve per say, but I can also get multiple tests during the day to (hopefully) feel a bit better for Monday's dose.

 

AMPS was 214. +2 was 204. +4 was 101.

 

Total guessing is a big part of figuring out dosing but we pretend we know what we're doing.

 

So he's still getting big drops on a tiny bit of insulin. If you decide to try 0.2, it could go either way: it might lengthen the cycle, but it also might drop him into a hypo, so please be careful if you decide to try it since there is definite risk involved. Especially since Pita tends to nadir whenever he feels like it, it could be tricky to monitor.

 

Good to know! Yes it doesn't look like much! lol. Another quick question, I missed the hour I really wanted so had to keep going counter clockwise but I think it's now set for 2 days . Do you know if you rotate it past the max time of 48 hours if it resets to the preferred lower time? Basically, is there a way to reset the timer? lol It did open for the +1 test I over set it for but it's still ticking

 

It doesn't reset itself. It'll keep going around and around, so you need to manually find the time you want. You can rotate it around as many times as you need! I've gone past the hour I needed, and you just keep going. It doesn't hurt it so long as you rotate the correct way!

 

+6 was 66

 

Ok that's what I thought. I'll have to let the 48 hours or however many days I might have set it for, countdown . They should've made the timer like the kitchen one's; you can force them to get to 0 . Maybe I'll reconsider making one with that kind of timer

 

Which feeder are y'all talking about?

 

Ok, slow down Pita . Wonder where he went last night and this morning is a little bounce

 

I'm confused now! You don't need to let it run down on it's own, you can constantly keep resetting it! I could set it for 2 hours from now, have it open and then reset it for another 2 hours. If it's the same one I have you can keep rotating it all day if you wanted.

 

I wonder/have a small feeling that he's been doing this for days!

 

It's a Wopet automatic feeder!

 

Can someone remind me how to attach a pic?

 

Pet feeder. When I was looking at one, Caitlin was looking at the same one but got it first. I said I'd get one when I got a job

 

Bottom of text box when typing reply is a button "upload a file"

 

Ohhh true but I figure that might drain the battery more so I'll let it get back to 0 and stop counting down

 

It's okay. I have a wopet as well, but mine doesn't have a dial - it's got a little panel with buttons.

And sorry, I meant "feeder" not "meter" Typo

 

oOoO fancy . You have the circular one right?

 

Yes. It works great for four feeds, but the other two are useless because the cats can get into them. They just have a sliding door, and it slides right open!. Technically there is a little catch on it, but it took Sam all of about 3 seconds to unlatch it. Then one compartment is open, and the one next to it is open about 1/4 of the way which is plenty for a kitty paw. They think it's a game and end up eating more than they need just for the fun of getting all the food out.

 

Thanks Yong! I never even thought of the running down the battery thing. I also made sure I have a ton of extra batteries and listen to the ticking. This is the one I have.
Something I wondered today: I usually put the feeder with their bowls for when it opens. However- since I've been home the past two weeks, I opened it myself at the +9 and made sure Pita had some. I'm very curious as to whether he's been getting it this week I was at work. Sometimes if he's under the catio he won't hear it open and Brat will eat all of it (I really don't want him gaining more weight) and Pita won't eat any. I'm wondering if/how much that's happened this past week and if that is maybe affecting him as well. Anywho, I plan to put it out today and tomorrow to make sure he eats.

 

Yup same one I got . It's still ticking and at the 44 hour mark

 

128 PMPS. Should I give .1?

 

Nevermind! Considering he was at 218 this morning and .1 brought him here, I'm going to NS tonight. But yay curve!

 

+4.25 was 112.

 

103 AMPS

 

100 @ +6

 

142 PMPS. Gonna go with a NS, see what tomorrow brings.

 

107 @+2

 

121 AMPS. NS. Will test tonight!

 

288 PMPS. Like a dummy I didn't set the feeder to the +9 mark. Either way, I know it might seem stubborn, but he's not acting 'high' like he used to with this number, so I'm just going to NS and see what happens. This is not me pushing for remission, just an experiment/gut feeling. It could fail, but that's okay!

 

Nevermind, I totally second guessed myself and just gave the .1

 

Haha it's so easy to second guess ourselves!

 

161 AMPS. Gave .1 units and set the feeder correctly to +9

 

Apparently I set mine for at least 4 days so it' s still ticking away!

 

Hahaha!

 

Hey all! It's been an exhausting week so TGIF! Pita has been doing well although I know I've been a bit all over the place with dosing. It's made me nervous to even give the .1 with a mid-100 PS before work, because I know how quickly and low he's dropped in the past. I'll be home more of the weekend though so I'll get some extra tests again. I know I had been given advice, but does anyone have a recommendation for a new no-shoot number? I think that's why I've also been iffy about dosing, but again, I've NS on some "higher" 100's and still had good PS numbers after. Oh Pita!

 

Hi Caitlin! Apparently my feeder is still counting down! I KNOW I did not set it for more than 4 days . I know, off topic.

From looking at your SS, I'm thinking 100 is a good NS number but you'll probably have to go with your gut too

 

Hahaha Yong, I have no clue what your feeder is doing Do you mean a flat reading of 100? Gah, that's SO low for me!

 

Cautious advice: base your dosing on your mid-cycle numbers and keep doing what you've been doing

Aggressive advice: at some point with Sam, I noticed that raising the dose a little didn't actually make his nadir any lower, but it did start to bring his pre-shots down. It was like he had a natural floor and would just stop somewhere in the 60's (most of the time). So IF you are home, and IF you can monitor, you could try giving a 0.2u and see what happens. The danger here is that he could actually go lime green. So there is some risk involved in this little experiment to see if it works with Pita, or if he just goes diving. Feel free to ignore this suggestion. And please definitely ignore this is you aren't home or can't monitor. But you already know that part. You're good at keeping him safe. I just felt obliged to write it again for anyone in the future reading this thread.