PLEASE HELP NEW HERE

insulin and diet
by redchief » Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:52 am

My Missy my cats name is 10 years old She is a long hair domestic cat. She was always a sickly cat since she was a kitten. Always gettinG upper respirtory infections. About 2 months ago she was sneazing alot. I brought her to the vet because of the constant sneazing and i saw blood being discharged from her nose. The vet took xrays and couldn't really find anything. Then I noticed she was drinking and eating more then normal. Well anyway they diagnosed her with diabetes. She was constantly eating and loosing weight. She was a big cat not obease now she is normal as far as weight but she still lost about 4 to 5 lbs she's now 13.5 lbs. The vet put her on Humulin n. had a hard time regulating it shes in her 3rd week of insulin. I also have 2 other cats. the vet put her first on 3 then 4 then 5 now up to 7 units. I was wondering the vet told me not to change her diet but i was wondering what cat food would be the best.. I am so sick that my cat had to get diabetes not cause of me because of her. I hate to see her suffer and she looks so sad. I just want to help her as much as i can. I love her so much. any help would be greatly appreciated not really sure how this works so my email address is vegasboy36 @aol.com (remove space). Please help...................

One last thing I feed them all science diet hair ball control dry. I noticed its real high in carbs? The vets says its ok but i think i should try something low carb. I know i'm all over sorry obout that.


Thanks
Rob

Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:39 am
Private message

 

Hi Rob,

Welcome to FDMB. We can help you get Missy feeling better.

First off, your vet had you start at a very high dose. You have probably jumped right past the best dose for your kitty.

Most vets are "general practitioners" -- meaning that in 8 years of education, they probably spent about 3 class-room hours learning about treatment of diabetes in many species.

Too much insulin can cause high blood sugar by a process called Somogyi Rebound. Basically, when the liver detects too much insulin, it panics and dumps extra sugar into the blood to help absorb the overdose.

Edited to Add: Also stress causes high blood sugar (adrenalin and sugar-energy surge from the fight-or-flight instinct)

In short, the members here have daily experience living with and treating one or more diabetic cats, so collectively we have a lot more experience with treating feline diabetes.

So -- keep doing what you are doing -- research this topic -- so you can recognize when your vet may not be giving the best advice. You don't need to get in arguments -- just have some discussion about how you want to treat your kitty.

In brief - we recommend:
1. Treating with a long-acting insulin like Lantus, Levemir or PZI. Humulin N and Vetsulin/Caninsulin do not last 12 hours in most cats.
2. Start at a low dose and increase in gradual steps to find the right dose.
3. Learn to test blood sugar at home. We use human glucometers available at pharmacies, and prick the edge of the ear for a tiny blood sample.
4. Feed a diet of high protein - low carbohydrate canned or raw food - preferably less than 10% carbohydrates (this is not noted on the label -- need the list)
5. Check for ketones (a urine test with a dipstick from human pharmacy) Presence of ketones is Bad -- trip to the vet before they get too high


Since Missy has only been on insulin for 3 weeks, please DO change the diet to low carb canned food and reduce the dose to start over at 1 unit BID.

There are many canned foods that are low carb -- make sure it is grain free and doesn't have gravy (usually thickened with carb-heavy starch)
Check Janet & Binky's Food Charts for flavors that you can buy in your area -- print and take it with -- the list is so long, it is in TWO pages -- OLD canned food and NEW canned food. So if you can't find the brands you want -- check the other list.

edited...

Just to note: My vet also says food doesn't matter. My cat's blood sugar says it does.

When fed canned food between 2-5% carbs, my two diabetic cats are well regulated on a tiny dose of Levemir.
El Tigre gets 0.25 u BID
Rusty gets 0.5 u BID

When El Tigre gets into Luci's crunchy treats, his blood sugar jumps up 150 points.

Before I adopted El Tigre, he was eating Science Diet Hairball Control dry, and he needed 2.5 units BID.
Rusty was eating a combination of canned foods - probably averaging between 8-12% carbs. He was getting ~1.5u BID

We test blood sugar before every injection, and occasional spot checks during the day.

 

I will give you my typical welcome post. I must point out that I am reporting your post to the moderator, so that they can remove your email address. This is the internet and I would hate for you to get spam messages as a result of posting it online.

So, please don't get upset, when you see this was reported - it was me and only scramble the email addy.
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WELCOME, this forum is a great place to gain knowledge and really learn how to manage feline diabetes. By doing just a few things each day (that really won't take up much of your time at all), you won't need to worry about losing your precious cat, not where feline diabetes is concerned.

There are three key factors to managing diabetes: food/nutrition, home testing and insulin

1) Feline Nutrition: Now, as far as diet - definitely dump the dry food (if you are feeding any) and if the vet recommends purchasing prescription food like DM just say "no thank you". ALL cats, and especially those with diabetes, do best on a species appropriate diet that is high in protein and low in carbs. Dry food DOES NOT fit that bill and DM food, even canned, just really isn't that great as far as quality. Most here on FDMB feed low carb/high protein canned, raw bought from a pet store or they make there own.

Here great links, one is to a food chart put together by one of our board members that breaks down the carb % and protein % of most of the commercial brand foods. You want to keep the carb % below 10% and around 7% is great. The other link is to a site by a vet "Dr. Lisa DVM" ... who also posts on this board from time to time ... there is in-depth info. there about many things, including nutrition and how to make raw food.
Nutrition/food info

The good thing with feeding your diabetic cat this way, is that it is ALSO good for any non-diabetic cat too. All your cats can safely eat the same food without worry and it may save you some costs and headaches of having to do separate feedings and keeping track of what they are eating.


2. Home testing: It is impossible to convey the value of testing your cat's BG (blood glucose) level at home. Some vets will "suggest" this, but most won't even mention it. They will send you home with insulin and an amount to shoot and maybe some instructions about hypoglycemia (blood sugar dropping to a dangerously low level).

Well, the thing is, human diabetics don't EVER give themselves insulin without checking there BG to make sure it is safe to do so, so why shouldn't it be the same for our kitties. Here on FDMB it is. You will notice that the vast majority of people here test their cat's BG at least 2x/day (before giving each shot to make sure the level is safe enough) and periodically at other times to see how the cat is responding to the current dose. We use a human glucometer, test strips and lancets - which are all very readily available and easy to use.

Our kitties get lots of love and treats for "putting up" with this and most of them actually come out to be tested on their own 'cause they want those treats . Here is a collection of great links that "Carolyn and Spot" pulled together about hometesting. See what you think ... it truly is the best way to not only keep Your cat safe but also really get a handle on this disease and help him to live a healthy life with FD (feline diabetes).

Home testing Links

3. Insulin: There are several types of insulin available. Many people, myself included use Lantus or Levimer both of which are great insulins. They are gentle insulin and given twice (BID) per day in 12 hour increments. Or you could also choose PZI or the new version called Prozinc.

Please read up on the insulins available, here is a link to the Insulin Support Groups:

Insulin Support Groups

However, one caveat and again this shows how these three things are inter-related:

If you are feeding dry food or even a high carb food, BEFORE removing these foods, please make sure of your insulin dose as it will most likely need to be reduced, so as to avoid a possible hypoglycemic situation due to the removal of the dry/high carb foods that will lower the BG’s and reduce the amount of insulin required. Again, another reason why home testing is important.

I know this all seems like a lot, and that's because it is ... there is a learning curve here. But as long as you are determined and keep at it, you will have it down before you know it and you'll be seeing the results in Your cat' overall health and happiness. Ask all the questions you can think of - that's why we are here!

Also, if you haven't done it yet, take the time and fill out your profile. It will help when others come on and read this. Also, let us know where you live - city/state as there are probably people in your area who can provide on the ground support and help you to learn home testing, etc.

 

Hi Rob and welcome to FDMB.

Your vet started your cat at a very high dose and like Phoebe said, you may have missed your optimal dose. A lot of vets seem to try to dose by weight, however in cats that does not work. Right now, because you are feeding dry food, that has most likely been protecting your cat from becoming hypoglycemic. However, that will not work long term.

Humulin is a fast acting but short duration insulin. Some cats do well on it, however most benefit from being on a longer acting insulin. Some good long acting insulins are Lantus, Levimer and PZI. If you can get your vet to change your insulin to one of these, for the Lantus and Levimer, ask for a script for either the cartridges or pens. The initial cost is more than the vial, but you get 5 of them, which in the long run saves money.

The dry food is most likely contributing to the difficulty you are having regulating your cat. Most of us feed our cats either canned food or raw. Many of us feed our cats either Fancy Feast or Friskies canned food. You do not need prescription food. However, before you change your cat's diet, it is extremely important that you lower your dose considerably. The majority of us only give our cats 1 or 2 units twice a day. And those of us that are at 2 or higher, started at 1 unit and gradually over several weeks increased it to the level we are at now. If you do not lower your dose, but change the diet to a low carb diet, you have a very high risk of your cat becoming hypoglycemic at it's current dose.

Caring for a diabetic cat is not difficult and is a learning process for the owner and sometimes the vet. Every cat is different. You will soon learn what works best for your cat and we are here to help you do so. Don't be afraid to ask any question, no matter what. Our advice may be different from what your vet says, but remember, many of us have several years experience in the daily care of diabetic cats. Our advice is not meant to be anything negative towards your vet, but to encourage you to question and research in order to give your cat the best care that is possible for you.

 

A new article to share with your vet:

http://aahanet.org/resources/DiabetesMgtGuidelines.aspx

 

I do also think 7 units is high. We started on 3 went to 4 all the way to 7. Her sugar was still real high.. On 7 units its still around 150. I did notice that when I give her the shot. She get very tired and sleeps alot. I get a bit nearvous how she lays as of late on her side motionless Almost likes she's dead............. Get nearvous call her name and she wags her tail. Call her again and she raises her head. I do have a One touch bg meater. never used it yet little nearvous about pricking her ear. I think she would be ok she such a good girl when i give her the shot. She almost wants it. She waits for it.

 

It seems like they would hate having their ear poked, but they really do get so they don't mind. They know a treat is coming right afterward. Here is a site with some good beginning info: http://www.sugarcats.net/sites/harry/bgtest.htm and a video that shows you how: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8

The way you describe her behavior could indicate that she is getting too much insulin, but there really is no way to tell unless you get a blood glucose reading. Please give it a try - it's amazing how much more in control of this whole thing you will feel.