Possible Hypo

I'm so glad to have found this forum! Short history. Rocky (male) is 14 yrs old, he's asthmatic and in need of cortisone shots every 6 months. His first shot was in 2005, previously he's been on prednisone tablets for 5 years, but giving him the tablets became an impossible task, stressful both to kitty and us, and he became quite clever in not swallowing the tabs and then spitting them out so his asthma became life threatening. We moved on to the injections, being totally aware of the diabetes risk. We consulted a number of vets and all of them agreed that the asthma will kill him if untreated and that diabetes is easier to treat. So he was diagnosed with Diabetes in April 06 just after his 2nd shot of Cortisone. I started with the injections and within days he became hypo, big scare... I was told to reduce the dose the next day, and the same thing. We then stopped his Lantus, and I took him for fructosamine tests every 3 months, and he was fine until Mar 2010 (all the while receiving cortisone jabs every six months) This time I knew the symptoms and we got him to the vet earlier.

Long story short, I bought a glucometer, also watched the youtube vid that you guys recommended and things have been going better. He's BG went up and down, and I would either reduce his dose or miss a dose if he's BG was normal. In November I was away for a weekend and took him to my sister (who loves him dearly) and she gave him his first dose for the weekend. He was hypo again, I told them to stop all insulin until I had returned. Since then he's BG has been normal. He had a cortisone jab in July 2010.

This month he started coughing again and I took him back to the vet, he was given half a dose of his normal depo-medrol dose. I've been trying to test his BG like I usually do since his cortisone injection, but he's VERY moody and would not let me near him, when I do get a prick there's no blood! So 10 days (yesterday)after his shot I start to notice that he's very weak, he only walks a few paces and has to lie down. I pinned him down and took the blood (it took a couple of tries) and his BG is at 588! I got such a fright, I gave him his shot at 15h00, then another one at 01h00 (10 hours later) and another one now (12 hours) But I have tried about 10 times to lance his ear and it won't bleed!

What am I doing wrong? is there any other way I can obtain his blood for testing? How long will it take for his BG to come down? He also has arthritis and has been on metacam until I read of the dangers and now he has no pain meds, can someone recommend something.

Also, I tested him 90 mins after his Lantus and his BG on came down to 550, is this too slow, is this normal? I use the BD Microfine 0.5ml syringes and he gets 0.07ml every 12 hours. is this too low? Also how many units would that be? I see you guys talking about units?

And food, he's on Hills MD for diabetic cats, he seems to be fine with it. Is this not the right thing? I see lots of people don't like dry cat food. He's very fussy and although he enjoys the MD soft foodies, he get VERY tired of it after about three days and then he refuses to eat. Any other recommendations?

We're in South Africa. I would appreciate any words of wisdom. There a big time difference between our countries so I might not be able to respond immediately unless I'm up at 03h00.

 

Re: New here and in need of some help

First off I would like to welcome you to the board.Your situation is complicated by the fact your cat is on cortisone injections.Many cats (and people) get a form of diabetes after being on cortisone. Does your cat get the cortisone because of the arthritis or does he have another condition?Thank God you are no longer giving your cat Metacam.It is a dog medication and is toxic to cats.

Normal BG in cats ranges anywhere from 50 to 120.This is using the american measurement system. 500 is way too high. I am glad you are trying to do BG testing. Lantus is a good insulin for cats but it has to be given on a regular basis with a consistent dose.You can't just give a cat a few injections of insulin when they show symptoms.It is really no different than a human needing to take insulin on a daily basis.

It sounds like your vet just gave you the insulin without much guidance on how to use it.There is a lot of information here on how to test your cat and do insulin management. I am going to try and get you some more feedback from some other members.Please whatever you do don't give your cat lantus injections every two or three hours. Lantus is a long acting insulin that should be given every twelve hours. If you give it more frequently you could overdose your cat.

 

Re: New here and in need of some help

Thank you for the welcome!

No I got great guidance on the use of Lantus, I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear, and in no way will I inject him every 2 hours. I do it every 12 hours, but because his BG was so high I did cheat a little and inject him 10 hours later last night. I have converted his BG levels to the USA system because ours are different, from Nov last year he's BG has been 108 and I haven't given him any lantus as per his vets's instructions he said it was normal. Until yesterday again.

He gets cortisone shots for his Asthma, it's quite severe.

I've done some more reading and the weakness seems to be neurophothy, but my only concern is how to do the home testing with a very unwilling cat. I'd like to add that he's very spoilt and so used to getting his own way and I know its my fault. I babied him from the start since we can't have children of our own. How do I change this?

I've also done some further reading on food. In South Africa we don't have half the variety in pet food that you guys have, but we do have Fancy Feast so I will try and introduce it to him slowly. I know he will love it, but I'm afraid of having another hypo incident.

Must say I've learnt a lot from this board today! Thanks!

And apologies for the use of the candle, I didn't know it was for kitties who passed away. What a sweet gesture. Thanks for changing it.

 

Re: New here and in need of some help

I have both an asthmatic and a diabetic cat, but I want to address the asthma. Rocky needs to get off the shots and get on inhaled steroids immediately. It's the only thing that will accurately medicate his asthma without causing other side effects. My Jack almost died in my arms because his asthma was so bad. He had to spend days in an oxygen tent. Pills and shots did nothing. The only thing that helped was the inhaled steroids. Jack hasn't so much as coughed in over a year.

You need an aero-cat inhaler: https://www.vetrxdirect.com/product/vie ... 7QodolZtHA - I don't know anywhere else to get an aerocat inhaler except online. This place gives you $10 off a $50 order, so that helps with the price.

And then you need the inhaled meds: http://www.4cnrs-asthma-allergy.com/flovent.html - You may be able to get flovent from a pharmacy there. I don't know how South Africa works with meds, but this is where many people buy their inhaled steroids for their cats. With Rocky's situation, you need to start him on the Flixotide CFC Free 250mcg Inhaler, probably 2 puffs twice a day until his symptoms disappear. Then you could cut him back to one puff twice a day. Like a lot of insulins, this med has a 12 hour duration.

Lastly, here's some reading you can do about all of this: http://www.fritzthebrave.com/index.html

And here's their group where I'm sure you could get more questions answered about the inhaled meds: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/feli ... haledmeds/

 

Re: New here and in need of some help

Thanks Kirsten,

Ah yes, I have done the the inhaled steroids. He absolutely WILL NOT tolerate it at all. I have tried everything I can. Even the vet got scratched visiously when he tried to do that. No one would believe me when I said that he attacks me when I even come near it. I can only get it on him when he's in the middle of an attack. He seems to be very afraid of the noise of the puffs. But saying that. I am in the process of trying to train him with treats to be more used to the lance's and glucometer strips, if it works, I will definitely use the same approach to train him to accept the inhaler and hopefully he'll be off the shots. Thank you for the links!The inhaler the vet gave me was a baby inhaler, looks almost the same, just with a teddy bear motive? Do you think it's the same?

 

Re: New here and in need of some help

Yep, baby inhaler is basically the same thing (at least to my knowledge they're very similar). I know some people have had success by putting treats in the mask and letting the cat eat the treats out of it. Also, you could press the inhaler down before putting it on him. You lose some of the meds that way, but it might help him not to have it "puffed" right on his face.

 

Re: New here and in need of some help

Are you still using Lantus? It isn't my insulin, but my understanding is that it doesn't work very well unless you give it every 12 hours and consistently- day in and day out. It builds up a shed and if you skip the shot, the shed is deleted. If you give insulin more often, you overlap and that can cause problems. Here is some information on the shed: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=150

As far as getting the blood sample, are you warming the ear? It was vital to us. You can make a rice sack out of a thinnish sock, fill with raw rice and knot. Warm in the microwave until very warm but not hot. Hold next to the kitty's ear for 30-45 seconds. Are you aiming in the right place? You are looking for the capillaries that run off the main vein which runs down the edge of the ear: Where to poke Once you see where you are going to want to poke, put a small smear of vaseline there so the blood can bead up. You can also milk the ear, smoothing the ear from below where you poked to move the blood up. And what size lancets are you using? 25-26 gauge lancets are thicker and work to make a bigger hole for new diabetics.

 

Re: New here and in need of some help

Welcome to FDMB.

In addition to all of the information here on the Health Board, you may want to navigate over to the Lantus forum and take a look at the informational posts -- the ones with stars on them -- at the top of the Board. I suspect you will find a different perspective on dosing. We base our use of Lantus on a well researched protocol developed at the University of Queensland -- the Tight Regulation Protocol. We are very numbers driving on the Lantus board. If you can start a spreadsheet and track some of your cat's numbers, we can lend you a hand with any dose-related questions you may have.

Lantus doesn't work the way you were trying to get it to work. As a long-acting insulin, giving a shot to try to pull down high numbers doesn't usually have that effect. Rather, it shifts around the nadir, so you have way too much overlap between shots, multiple nadirs, and an increased risk for a hypo event. To yank down high numbers, you need to use a short acting insulin.

The only other suggestion than what people here have noted about testing is that some cats do better with testing on a paw pad. Using treats to reinforce testing as a positive experience helps, if you're not already doing this. Most of us have found that one ear bleeds better than the other.

 

Re: New here and in need of some help

Hi I am glad you are getting some more feedback from some other people.Sorry about the misunderstanding. Instead of thinking you gave the second injection two hours early, I thought you gave them two hours apart.Hopefully we can get someone here who can help you convert the european dosage to the american system of insulin units. There is a link to do that somewhere but I don't have it.

You might even want to start another post asking for help converting dosages.Then you could get some more specific advice on insulin dosage.I know there are some people from the UK and Australia who also post on this board.

 

Re: New here and in need of some help

A 0.5 ml insulin syringe is what US people call a 1/2 cc insulin syringe.



0.07 ml of insulin is the same as 7 units. It's a huge dose for most newly diagnosed cats.

No, dry food isn't good for any cat. It's one reason why some cats end up diabetic in the first place. Not even the prescription stuff is good. http://www.catinfo.org has good info about proper diet.

Canned food is fine for your cat to have but I wouldn't ditch the dry food cold turkey with that huge amount of insulin. First learn how to test your cat's blood glucose levels at home. Warming the ear up really well will help. You can also try a paw pad. Then work on the diet slowly because a big change can result in a big drop in blood glucose levels and the current insulin dose may end up being too much for your cat.

Not all canned foods are ok for diabetic cats to have. "Low carb" is best. Use this food chart: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/nonusfd.html Hopefully there is a brand listed on the chart that is available where you live. Look at the column for carbs and feed the ones that have a number 10 or less.

Feeding raw food is another option. There are many recipies out there but not all are suitable for diabetic cats. The one at Catinfo.org is a good one.

 

Re: New here and in need of some help

Kirsten & Sam: Yes I do press the inhaler before putting it on him, I found this to be easiest, but still need to be super careful of his claws! He's viscious when I do something he doens'nt like! He's just had his cortisone shot so I have at least 3 months to try and get him used to the inhaler, I will use treats, but I've found he's way to clever for that and won't take the treats if I put it in the mouth piece of the inhaler. But I will certainly try every single day to get him used to it.

Sue & Oliver: Yes I'm suing Lantus. I don't normally stray from the 12 hour routine, but I was so panicked yesterday I decided to give his 2nd shot 10 hours later. his 3rd shot was 12 hours and his 4th is due tonight at midnight. While I was waiting for replies I did some more research and filled a sock with rice and heated it. He allowed the sock but not the Lancet. I also want to add that ordinarily he is quite ameanable to me testing his BG, but when he's not feeling well he does not tolerate it at all. I do use the torch to locate his veins and I am quite adept at being ablet o draw blood but it just seems as if his blood has dried up? But when I have help (my hubby or sister wrapping him in a blanket to keep him still, I was able to do so this evening). Not sure about the size of the Lancet, I use the Accu check brand and we have no choice in the size of the lancet. But will check and see if I can find a bigger one.

Sienne & Gaby: Thank you for the link, will check it out and do more reading on tight regulation. Thank you for the info on Lantus, for some reason I thought all insulin was the same and expected his BG to come down immediately, now that you've explained it, I'll be more patient next time. Thank you! I am seeing the vet tomorrow and will ask about a short acting insulin as well.

Janelle & Nomad: I found the link to the USA conversion and I did have it right his BG was 580. Scary stuff! I nearly had a heart attack, I thought he was going to die in a matter of minutes! Good grief I was panicked! I tested again this evening (6 hrs after his 3rd shot) and his BG is between 125 and 130 (7 mmol/L) so looking better, but he's still very very weak.

Squeem3: Thank you! OK so 7 units? Gosh that seems high, although I must add that he was on 5 units in 2006 until his Diabetes resurfaced again in 2009. He was hospitilised for 7 days, had to have a drip and everything, and they had him on 7 units, until his BG settled and they moved him down to 5 units. I used the 7 units because his BG was so high. If his BG is better this evening I will use 5 units instead. In terms of food, I was contacted by someone who lives here in SA and I will be buying him soft food from now on that's low in carbs and high in protien. (Of course I will be testing him more often, I don't want another hypo incicdent.) As for raw, or even cooked meat, Rocky must be the fussiest cat on the block, he hates any type of meat, either raw or cooked, But with some research and determination I might be able to convince him other wise.


Guys thank you SO much for the feedback! Never in a million years did I expect the support I got today, I really felt so lonely in this. I'm taking him to the vet tomorrow. He seems very very quiet and depressed and he spends a lot of time cleaning his genitals so I'm thinking he might have a UTI on top of everything else. I will keep you posted.

 

Re: New here and in need of some help

If his bg is in the 100s, you do not want to give insulin. We urge newbies not to give insulin under 200. How many hours time difference from the East Coast US? I would really like to see you get some advice, based on your current number, before you shoot. I am confused. Is he moving from the 500s to the 100s in one day?
Can you give us a "picture" of your most recent numbers using this format?


amps # units of Lantus given (amps is morning preshot number)
+3 # ( if you got a number 3 hours after the shot)
+6 #
pmps # units of Lantus given (pmps is the evening number before the shot)



So it might look like this (made up numbers)
amps 350 2 units of Lantus
+ 245
+6 200
pmps 340 2 units of Lantus



I don't think Gabby meant you should get a short acting insulin also. Giving two insulins is very difficult and certainly not recommended for a new diabetic. Lantus is a great insulin but it is different and does require a different protocol with the shed.

 

Re: New here and in need of some help

Hi Sue,

Yes his number went from 560 (upon perusing the conversion link) to 125 in 30 hours. Unfortunately the first successful test was only in the afternoon (I didn't want to shoot before I knew what his BG was, since he was OTJ since Nov 10 and his values were constantly normal). This is what it looked like.

24/01/11: 15h00 - 560 - 7 units Lantus
+1: 550
25/01/11: 01h00 - No reading - 7 Units Lantus
25/01/11: 13h00 - No Reading - 7 Units Lantus
+6 125
+12 35

I just tested him again and it had dropped further to 35, 12 hours after his shot. When I saw it had dropped to 125 at 6+ I knew I would not inject him if it was still that low at 12 hours. I can't believe it has dropped even lower, I sort of expected it to have risen in the 2nd half of his 12 hour cycle. My logic tells me that if it acts in 12 hours, you should have a peak about midway and then it starts rising again. Obviously there's more to learn. I've also never watched his BG like a hawk as I do now. Also another part of the reason I panicked is because he lost 500g of weight, I weighed him on Sat and then on Today and he had lost. On Sat he had actually gained 100g from his Vet visit the week before, and I thought he was OK BG wise.

I will not give him a shot tonight at all. We will test him again in 6 hours time before hubby has to leave for work.

He's not really newly diagnosed. He just seems to have hit a hurdle this time around. Normally I am able to handle things quite well. But I'm glad I found this site. There's a lot of things I didn't know. I'm not sure how I came across this site this time because I've googled countless times before and never found this site. And I'm pretty sure my Vet will not give me a short protocol insulin on top of lantus or even in place of it, I meant I would just ask him about and see what he says.

 

Re: New here and in need of some help

If he is at 35, you need to do some intervention now! This is a hypo number. What is your number in metric?

Edited to add. I hope I am just misunderstanding your number. But if he is at 35 in US numbers, he is in danger.

 

Re: New here and in need of some help

Oh no, metric number is 2.

Syrup now????

ETA: Eeek! He has been eating high card kibbles since I saw the number was so low, but because he's not disorientated or woozy and clumsy I didn't panic

 

Re: New here and in need of some help

I would give a little syrup, yes. That's 36 in American number and very low (hypo).

Put it on your finger-tip, then rub it on gums inside of mouth.
Not necessary that it be swallowed.

Do you have any high-carb food handy and will kitty eat ?

Feed some, but don't stuff the cat...you might need to keep feeding.

 

Re: New here and in need of some help

Don't panic. Breathe. First, put a 911 on your post and change the subject to possible hypo.

 

Re: New here and in need of some help

I would go ahead and be generous with the syrup on his gums. You will need to test again in a few minutes to see if he has come up yet.

 

OK! Doing it now.

Yes he's been eating high carb kibbles.

 

Re: New here and in need of some help

OK, I've done the syrup. Will give him a couple of minutes and test again

 

Re: New here and in need of some help

Great. You will need to test again soon. You said you were having some trouble testing him. We wrapped Oliver up in a towel. You can put him between your legs or on a chair so you can lean him into the arm if you anticipate him moving on you.

He is acting okay? This is good news.

 

Re: New here and in need of some help

It doesn't look like the 911 and subject line worked. Go back to your original first post of today. Choose Edit. Add the 911 and the Hypo and then choose Submit. That should work, I think.

 

Re: New here and in need of some help

hi, just walked on and saw this. do i understand this was a blind shot...so we are not sure what his # was when he received the 7U? this could take a while so don't let him get too filled up on the kibble. do you have any high carb gravy foods...the syrup wears off pretty quickly and the kibble takes a while to meabolize

 

Re: New here and in need of some help

Yes, Lori, blind shot. And some real strange numbers on Lantus - from 500 to 100 and lower.

 

There, your 911 worked. Say, what is your name, Rocky's mom?

 

so just waiting to see the next test?

 

this is definitely a hypo

35 12 hours since the last shot is not good news and is in all honesty a result of an overdose because of that large quantity of insulin you are giving. i will have to go back and see why or how you got to such a large dose but until we get some things figured out, DO NOT give him anymore insulin ok. and definitely not 7 units.

let me see if i can figure something out.

at roughly 3 pm on the 24th, you shot 7 units of lantus
at roughly 1 am on the 25th, you shot 7 units
and at roughly 1 pm on the 25th you shot another 7 units.
it is now roughly 1 am or shortly after where you live yes? and time for a shot? which you are not going to give right now. :smile:

overdoses of lantus toss the whole 12/12 thing right out the window ok. overdoses of lantus can cause low numbers for much much longer than 12 hours sooooooooooo we're going to need you to test, feed, test, feed etc....until he's in much higher numbers. then, once you get him there, you are going to skip the next shot and let his system clear out some (unless we find ketones/ dka history). and yes, i'd use some syrup to get him up out of this extreme low. once up even into the 50's or so, then you can drop the syrup and just use food

 

1am? geez, get the coffee going. good thing it mid afternoon here so you won't find yourself alone for any of it.

 

I cannot believe I overdosed him!!!!

But because his number were SO high it seemed like the natural thing to do. In the past I'd give him 5 units when his BG was 16, and 7 units did not seem to high for a BG of 31???

OK so no sleeping tonight its now 01h38 AM. I will test every 30 mins and give him syrup intermittendly.

My name is Elize

ETA: Yes Cindy you've got it right.

I did not know it can last longer in his system.

 

See no DKA history but has hypoed before. Is asthmatic.

 

Elize latest #?

 

You need to test every 15 minutes until we get to a higher number, Elize. No worries - there will be people here to help.

 

lantus has a cumulative effect, meaning it builds up in the system and works better as it does so, sooooooooo, the 21 units you've given him in the last 36 hours or so are all starting to run together now and you are seeing the effect of it.

the asthma and the steroids make your situation a bit different to handle but once this is over and you stick around, there are people here who can help you figure out how to handle the two together.

most most most important thing to remember though is one number is one number. never react to one number by shooting more and more insulin. yes the steroids are going to make his BG's higher, but it's better to have a breathing cat with higher glucose levels than not so let the guys and gals here help you figure that part out once this is over with.

 

OMG...I am really glad you got to this site last night.If you don't have karo sryup pancake syrup, maple syrup or even jam will work.We had another cat go hypo and die over the weekend.We will all keep posted!!!!!!!

 

Aaaargh! I have one test strip left!!!!!!!

I used quite e lot today and since I was here babysitting him the whole day I didn't go out. I never thought I would run out or that I would have to test him every 15 mins.

I found some wet food, he's eating it now.

Should I use the last strip now or give it an hour?

 

Do you have 24 hour drug stores open? And someone who could go get the strips for you. This is not a one strip deal. You will need to be testing for several hours.

Did you get a test after the 35 so we have some idea where we are?

 

i don't suppose there is an all night pharmacy you can get some strips from...this will be near impossible to manage without testing...in a worse case scenario i'd test now to make sure your rising ..if not karo and get the number of an er vet in case...and if rising than continue in small doses to feed the high carb food...DO NOT fill him up...he will need to eat for awhile.

 

Cindy, you make a lot of sense. I shouldn't have acted to swiftly but because he lost weight, urinated a lot and looked so off I panicked.

OK, I'm trying to calm down, I will stay up with all night, its almost 02h00 and hubby needs to sleep, I'll test him again at 02h00 and hopefully his numbers have gone up.

I did not know Lantus has a cumulative effect.

Yes I got a test after 35, it had gone up to 40. (2.2)

The only emergency pharmacy is in another city. I will test him in 5 mins at 02h00 exactly and see what the strip says.

 

crap! if he's not showing any symptoms, maybe wait on that last strip. an hour might be too long though.

is there ANY way to get more strips? call someone maybe?

 

Saying a prayer for you and Rocky.

 

Know any diabetic friends who might be staying up late and could lend you a meter with strips?

 

cindy waiting could be dangerous cause if he's not responding to the carbs and sugar we should know by now...if he is...even a bit she can just wash rinse repeat...only without the wash.
in english this means just stay with him..feed gravy like high carb in small amounts every 1/2 hour or so. and if he's gone lower at next test have the phone of an er vet at the ready so they can advise.
if we were stranded in the snow or something we could get thru this without the strips...

 

if he starts showing symptoms keep rubbing that karo on gums as it will absorb.
got any ice cream or whip cream...

 

Tell us what kinds of food you have - some dry? some wet - is it low carb or high carb. High carb usually has some gravy.

 

Is there an all-night pharmacy near you.

WHAT CITY, STATE, COUNTRY do you live in (not the USA, I presume ?)

 

If negative on all that...any chance to go to an ER 24 hr. vet hospital

 

Sam loves whipped cream. I can always get him to eat that, so if you have any handy, that might help. How's Rocky looking?

Karen - I believe she's in South Africa.

 

OK girls I just tested his BG is 5.9!!!!! so about 105 in your measurements!!!!!!

I have a headache from hell!!!!!

Next time I will remember that a breathing kitty with high sugar is better than a hypo kitty.

What do you think???

Is he out of the woods?

He doesn't like syrup but he gets it!! I can be strict sometimes, so even if he fights me I can force it on him. Fortunately I had the foresight to clip his nails yesterday when he was so weak!

 

Oh rats, half-way around the world. I figured far away.

 

That is much better but you are not out of the woods. The syrup brings them up fast and then they can go back down again. Do you have some of the gravy food? I would feed him a little of that.

Have you come up with any way to get more strips? Or another meter that has strips.

 

I've removed the 911. I think he's out of the woods.

I will set my alarm for every hour to check on him. I'll probably be awake but just in case I do fall asleep.

Thank you so much for your help. I'm seeing the Vet 1st thing tomorrow morning.

 

Definitely get a little gravy food into him if you can. Keep those numbers from falling back down.

 

Elize, you are NOT out of the woods. Syrup can really raise their levels fast and then they can crash. I would not go to sleep yet.

 

Do you have an emergency hospital or vet? If you are out of strips and no way of getting more, itmight be probably the smartest and safest option at this point.

 

Eliza unfortunatley dear woman you are not out of the woods with that particular insulin..what you have is just a sugar high..it won't last...
i know the headache must be awful...and likely all of us comin at you does'nt help.
keep the food machine going hon, we've seen this before with Lantus and in an hour he could be back down to 35 again. :roll: it is more than 50/50 that he will.

 

NO. HE IS NOT OUT OF THE WOODS. This may be a food spike from the high carb. Just so you are aware, a true hypo on Lantus can require 16 hours or more of constant monitoring.

If there is any way to get strips, get them. If there is anywhere open, even if it means buying another meter, you need to be able to test if at all possible.

If you can't get strips, your safest bet may be to go to an emergency vet and have them monitor your cat until they feel it is safe for him to be back home. Without strips, there is no way to manage this at home.


However, we don't know if this is a true hypo or if your cat was simply running in low numbers. A 35 at 12 hours could be a late nadir. If you were shooting overlapping doses, we don't know what's going on. It could be a hypo or it might not.

I know that you said you have had good instruction and are knowledgeable in the use of Lantus. However, I want to underscore that once this situation is under control, that you read the starred sticky notes in the Lantus forum. I'm not convinced that you have all the information you need about the use of Lantus at your disposal.

(NB: in my earlier post, I was NOT suggesting that you use a short acting insulin. If you think Lantus can be tricky, a short acting insulin used incorrectly can be lethal.)

 

folks let's work with what she had.. it's 2am and the nearest pharmacy is an hour away. things like this can happen. or worse. keep the food coming..small amounts, morning will be here soon and it's possible that she may aquire strips then.
until then..Eliza keep him eatting and awake. do you know the carb count of the canned food you have? do you even have canned food?
if not...find something other than sweets in your house he will like that we know to be high carb.
let's acknowledge her limitations ok.

 

She is not shown as on the board anymore. I sure hope she didn't go to sleep.

 

and she's gone....
we can't jump of folks in this kind of emergency. don't you think it's best to work with what she has then to overwhelm and guilt her for what she cannot do.
hope she comes back soon.

 

OK, I've just now had time to read all the posts and responses.

I found some soft jelly foods ( I thought I had given it to my sister fortunately I didn't)

I have high calorie kibble (Whiskas)

I have syrup.

I will stay up and feed him intermittently small doses and give him syrup a little a time.

There is no-one in both our families or circle of friends who are diabetic.

I will leave for the pharmacy at 05h00 (it's in 2 and a half hours) for more strips, I will test him when I come back. (it's not safe to travel at night here) No way hubby will allow any midnight trips with our high crime rate. If I had a pharmacy in my town it would have been different.

I will keep you guys posted.

As for the DKA, he was admitted April 2009, he'd lost weight and hiss diabetes had resurfaced and on his invoice it said also said asthma, I can't remember the exact circumstances as we had just lost our 4th baby and I was knee deep in grief. Although they never tested his ketones ( I checked his invoice) he did need a drip and there was a day or so where it didn't look like he was going to survive. In the midst of all this he had an almighty asthma attack which they tried to ease with the inhaler, but had to give him a cortisone shot (the vet was freaked out! for the 1st time they believed me when I told them his asthma was bad, Why do people not take me seriously?)and he took a turn for the worst.

I'm thinking although not dianosed as such it could have been DKA? But we'll never know because he was never tested.

I am going to ask the vet to test his ketones in the AM as well as looking to see if I can find a ketone testing device.

 

No test strips, then I would say take kitty to ER. You are not going to keep kitty safe by stuffing kitty with food and not testing.

 

well if you can't get out than not stuffing but keeping the food going is the best you can do.. we can only do our best Eliza.
we will be here.
altho' i won't as i have to leave in 10 minutes.
please don't panic or suffer guilt, i know what it's like...if you can't get out than hypo's have been handled in far bleeker circumstances than this...you may have been snowed in or such.

 

Don't worry Lori, I'm not over sensitive, I know everyone is just concerned.

But I'm signing off now, hubby needs to sleep (he sleeps in the spare room) I will stay awake with my cat and monitor him. He has been hypo before so I do know exactly what to look out for, but saying that, I WILL KEEP UP HIS FOOD AND SYRUP intake.

He will be OK.

I will let you know as soon as have more news and I'm able to test again.

I have phoned the emergency number at my Vet's practice. I'm waiting for their response. We don't have open clinics anywhere near us, I am dependent on my vet's emergency number.

 

staying calm and focused is key here. breathing, explaining things and keeping things un-chaotic will make this a lot easier.

elize, i understand about the safety concerns. i have several customers who do missionary work in south africa and have encountered some extremely dangerous situations so, like i said above, we probably just have to work with what we've got for now.

as long as you can stay awake and keep an eye out for symptoms like stumbling, glazing eyes, twitching, hiding, etc.....we can most likely do this. it is only 4:45pm here where i am so i can easily stick around for several hours. if you want to read, ask questions, or just chat, we're here to do that with you to keep you awake ok. if you don't want to hang around the board, please check in as you can and certainly if you see any of those symptoms k

 

You will do the best you can with what you have, Elize. It sounds like it would be too dangerous to go anywhere. Just be sure you feed small amounts so he doesn't get full and refuse to eat. Put some syrup on if you see any symptoms. We will holding you close and hoping hard that things will be fine.

And don't give insulin tomorrow - even if he is sky high. Which he probably will be with all the high carbs he is getting.

 

Not sure this helps, but we have another member in South Africa - Hout Bay area...? "Jack & Jane"

Might be like saying Pennsylvania and Florida are near each other because they're both in the US, I'm sure South Africa is a huge place.... but Jane may know of places to get strips in a hurry for future reference. In the States, many of us have Walmarts somewhere within reach.

 

Nina:

Linda/BearMan put a call out to Jack and Jane this morning.

 

Hi,
Glad that went OK!!

Our cat was on Hills m/d dry for a short time -- and getting 8 units BID. We pulled him off the Hills and put him on Fancy Feast and his insulin requirements dropped very rapidly to less than 3 units BID. It required a lot of management and testing and early intervention to prevent hypos. Far easier is to make the change in food gradual (but that's not necessarily easy). If he's off insulin at the moment, then great time to change food now and start back at a low dose. Plenty of advice on details from others here.

The other huge difference is that it was very difficult to control Ocat on the Hills m/d -- wild swings in BG at any time of day. Once on Fancy Feast there was a world of difference, besides the huge reduction in insulin required, the wild swings were completely gone and his diabetes was completely under control very quickly and his insulin requirements dropped almost every day for some time after that.

Good luck!
-Craig

 

Hi all,

OK Rocky looks a lot better! We managed to get some tests this morning and tested and his BG was 140 (7.8). Unfortunately Jack & Jane live in a different province and they are very far away from me. I'm just getting ready to go to the vet. I will keep you posted on what he said.

PS. The rice sock works so well!

 

Wow! that's not a bad number given how long it's been since the last insulin was given. interesting.

glad to hear you guys came thru ok. i'm heading to bed myself now but will anxiously look for an update when i get up in the morning

 

Elize,

So glad you both made it through the night.

Be aware that you got a low number considering all the carbs he had yesterday - not a shootable number. When cats are tested at the vet, their numbers can be much higher that they are at home. Stress raises bg levels and most cats are stressed at the vet - with the strange noises and smells and people.

Watching for your post vet post.

 

:smile: :YMHUG: o and amen.

 

Just want to mention now that it's wise to have plenty of strips on hand.

Always have at least one extra package of strips.

You might check if there is some sort of mail-order source in South Africa.

Sometimes it can be cheaper to buy several packages at a time,
mail order, and keep a supply on hand.

If no mail order source, then stock up each time you get to your source.