Prescription diet versus Fancy Feast

Hi,

I am crazy with all the different options on the internet about feeding a diabetic cat, but here is my situation. My cat is 14 years old and is newly diagnosed with diabetes. He is presently on Glyburide as I chose to dry him on oral and change of diet first. I switched him over to Fancy feasts. Talked with my vet the other day who said that they have found eating the fancy feast causes urine crystals to form in male cats and therefore I should put him on prescription diet. Okay, so I bought some Hills m/d canned and Purina MD canned and well, he does not care for it and will not eat it now. Does anyone have experience with fancy feast causing this? What do I do now when he won't eat? Thanks for listening. :smile:

 

I never heard of FF causing crystals. I feed mine both FF and Friskies.

 

Ive never heard of that. My parents feed all 3 of their cats fancy feast with no problems, I dont feed mine fancy feast because it has higher phosphorus and Hidey has beginning kidney issues.

 

Thanks for the replies. Not sure if my cat has kidney issues? How do I find out? Are there symptoms besides the diabetic ones? Or a blood test?

 

Hi and welcome Corteza!

The Fancy Feast classic pates specifically are the diabetes friendly option, while the many other options are probably the ones your vet is most concerned about... My cat is male and had large bladder stones in the past (struvite crystals), has diabetes (currently in remission) and was also fed Fancy Feast classic pate (for 1 month). I'm sure during your research you came across http://www.catinfo.org that has chockful of invaluable information which specifically addresses feline diet and urinary tract health issues. Key takeaway based on your question (lots of good takeaways so you should definitely check out the link):

While feeding my cat Fancy Feast (classic pate Turkey & Giblets) for the last month during his OTJ trial (no insulin), he did beautifully. I had no issues w/ urinary tract issues (albeit it was only 1 month of feeding Fancy Feast) where his litter behavior was perfectly healthy. I just transitioned my cat to commercial raw chicken and canned Wellness Chicken as kitty just doesn't find Fancy Feast Turkey & Giblets as appetizing. Most cats LOVE Fancy Feast Classic Pate from what I've read, but the Turkey and Giblets Classic Pate in particular doesn't seem to be liked by many cats...I think it has to do w/ the fact that it does not have any fish in it...but it's also why I chose the Turkey flavor since fish also has higher phosphorous content/higher bone content.

I ended up donating all of kitty's prescription urinary health canned food but he's been off of it only for a month. I will check in and see what his next urinalysis says when I take kitty to the vet in 6 months. I hope my story helps you!

 

Your story was great and thanks for sharing! I cannot find fancy feast with classic on the label....is it also under a different label? Have a wonderful day and I am glad that your kitty is doing so well. :smile:

 

Kidney issues are diagnosed by blood work, although Im not certain about the kidney issues. He has to go in for his yearly soon and I will have them recheck.

 

Where do y live? In the USA it is called Classics. In other countries it says something else.

 

I live in Canada.

 

also, if I wanted to substitute FF for another better quality canned cat food, does anyone know what would be comparable in taste? confused_cat

 

There is no way to determine what tastes better to a cat other than to try it on the cat.

In Canada the USA Classic FF are called something different. I can't find the Canadian FF site so I do not know what it is called in Canada.
What is the pate Chicked called in Canada?

 

Thanks for trying. I seem to have a different problem right now. My cat is just not eating. Even giving him his favorite, tuna, he just drinks the juice. I don't know what is going on as he was eating pretty good a couple of days ago on the FF. Took his blood and it is higher than before. Just kinda feeling like my best buddy is fading on me and I just don't know what to do to help him. Thanks for listening.

 

I have a diabetic cat and a urinary issues cat who has had crystals. I have them on the same diet. The other thing you should look for in a canned wet or raw food is low phosphorus. Continuing the rest of the quote that was previously given:

The food list on http://www.catinfo.org lists phosphorus in addition to carbs. A lot of the Fancy Feast are rather higher in phosphorus. Wellness Chicken and Turkey are another option, as are others. If you buy them in the tall cans, they are fairly economical.

Good luck getting your kitty to eat. Try sprinkling freeze dried chicken breast on top, or catnip, oregano, parmesan cheese sometimes work. Some cats also love the taste of FortiFlora.

 

Thanks for the info. Looking into wellness and Innova. Yeah, he vomitted a couple of times last night...i think empty stomach and meds. Today is a new day, he had a bit to eat, not a lot but some. Praying for a better day!

 

Pick up urine testing KetoDiaStix (or generic) for monitoring ketones and glucose in the urine. See my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools for tips on the urine testing, as well as some other measurements you may wish to make to monitor his health.you need to be sure he isn't throwing ketones and going into diabetic ketoacidosis.

Also, lets get you started using our grid to record your glucose tests. It will help us give you better feedback. Instructions are here.

Understanding the spreadsheet/grid:

The colored headings at the top are the ranges of glucose values. They are color-coded to clue you in as to meaning.

Each day is 1 row. Each column stores different data for the day.

From left to right, you enter
the Date in the first column
the AMPS (morning pre-shot test) in the 2nd column
the Units given (turquoise column)

Then, there are 11 columns labeled +1 through +11
If you test at +5 (5 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +5 column
If you test at +7 (7 hours after the shot), you enter the test number in the +7 column
and so on.

Halfway across the page is the column for PMPS (evening pre-shot)
To the right is another turquoise column for Units given at the evening shot.

There is second set of columns labeled +1 through +11
If you snag a before bed test at +3, you enter the test number in the +3 column.

We separate day and night numbers like that because many cats go lower at night.

It is merely a grid for storing the info; no math required.

After you've set that up, you can put it in your signature, along with other details that may help us give you feedback.

Go to the top left of the screen.
Click on User Control Panel.
Click on Profile
Click on Edit Signature
A text box displays.
This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
Add any other text, such as
your name, cat's name,
city and state,
date of Dx (diagnosis)
insulin
meter
any other pertinent issues like food issues, allergies, IBD, etc.

 

See cat-info.org for an objective look by a qualified veterinarian at the so-called "prescription diets" that vets sell at their clinics. Below is our experience with urinary tract issues and prescription diets.

Houdi's story:

One of our boys had a severe urinary blockage last December - his bladder was full of tiny stones. He spent 3 days & nights in the hospital getting his bladder flushed out. (And we spent $2000 - Merry Christmas!) His bladder had literally turned into a little sand bag. A vet of more than 25 years experience said she had never seen that much "sand" come out of a cat before. The vets were pessimistic and warned us to expect a relapse. They told us to put him on Royal Canin Urinary S/O canned, which we did. We also supplemented with a small amount of Hill's Prescription Urinary dry.

When I took him to our regular vet to get tested 3 weeks later, his urine was still far too concentrated and full of crystals, despite the prescription diet. The vet's exact words were, "Get more water in this cat or you'll lose him."

We abandoned the prescription diet since it wasn't working, completely removed all dry food from the house, and began feeding Wellness Grain-free or Performatrin Ultra Grain-free canned 3 times per day, for all 3 of our cats (what's good for the goose...). He liked these foods much better and therefore ate more, and of course consumed more moisture as a result. We also began adding two full measuring tablespoons of water to each meal (for each cat) and mixing it well with the canned food. After two weeks we took Houdi in for another test. The vet said his urine was very dilute, no crystals, and 'You're doing a great job, keep doing what you're doing."

It's been 9 months now since his last test and Houdi has been fine. He pees regularly, always large amounts (no small clumps), and there is no straining or hesitation or licking afterwards. He never lingers in his litter box anymore.

I realize I have not told you anything here that Dr. Lisa Pierson has not stated on her site cat-info.org., but I wanted to throw in my own personal experience for reinforcement. She says urinary tract issues usually boil down to a single word - 'water'. My experience with Houdi and a prior cat whom we lost to UTI has borne this out. Had we done the same thing for poor Zeus (my wife's beautiful 4-year-old Himalayan whom we had to put down due to repeated UTIs, blockages and extreme suffering, despite feeding Hill's & Royal Canin "prescription" foods for urinary tract issues for most of his tragically short life), I'm convinced we could have saved him. It's a tough lesson to learn.

Canned food is far far superior to any dry food, but by itself it isn't enough. And the so-called "prescription diets" are not the best option by far, despite being sold through vet's offices. You want something higher in protein and lower in carbs than those foods. You need to add water to the food. Aim for six tablespoons per day. That added water will have a far greater impact on their urinary tract health than the type of food you give them. However, as someone else has mentioned, (and Dr. Lisa also mentions on her site) you should avoid foods that are higher in phosphorus, as they may make stones more likely. That means no fish or sea-food in the ingredients (other than fish oil).

To summarize:

1. Feed nothing but canned food - no dry
2. Add six tablespoons of water daily and make sure they're taking it all in - this is easier if you feed at least 3 meals per day.
3. Aim for foods lower in phosphorus - that means no fish or seafood ingredients other than fish oil

Sorry for the long post, but feline UT issues are a subject dear to my heart. Having had experienced both success and miserable failure on this front, I wanted to share my experience.

 

Please don't apologize for the long post. I was thankful for you sharing your story :smile:

It is very interesting to me how similiar vets are becoming like medical doctors who prescribe the medication/brands who represent them and pay them the most instead of really taking care of the patients. I guess I was somewhat naive to think that a vet would be better because they were dealing with animals. Of course, when a real emergency presents itself a vet or doc can be valuable.

Having a diabetic male cat and worried about his urine tract, providing the right diet all around is important. So, this information is valuable to me. I will take your suggestions and begin to practice them. Unfortunately, my cat is a tuna lover and most of the FF that I was feeding had fish in it. I will try to break that habit. Many thanks and blessings to you, your family and cats. :smile:

 

Rhiannon posted a filtered shortcut list of canned low carb <8% and with associated phosphorous foods from Dr. Pierson's original nutrition chart.

From Rhiannon's shortcut list, I picked those that were near <250mg in phosphorous levels and flavors I think my cat would like:

0% - Natura Evo chicken and turkey 155
5% - Natura Evo 95% duck 251
3% - Nature's Variety Instinct Grain free Beef – 248
2% - Nature's Variety Instinct Grain free Lamb 262
1% - Nature's Variety Instinct Grain free Duck 191
8% - Wellness Core chicken/turkey/chicken liver 215
5% - Wellness Core Turkey & Duck 265
5% - Wellness Core Beef , Venison & Lamb 171
4% - Wellness Beef and chicken 226
4% - Wellness chicken 219

Hopefully your cat will do better on Wellness or Innova. Please let us know how your cat progresses (what is your cat's name BTW?). *Crossing fingers for you and your cat*

 

Thank you. My cat's name is Nelson. Today he managed to eat a bit more, not to where he should be but an improvement over yesterday. Thanks for the support it means a lot :smile:

 

Good to hear Nelson is eating a bit more. :YMHUG:

I noticed that you are giving your kitty oral meds. Have you read this page on oral medications? The key take away is that they can further damage the cat's pancreas. Cats have the unique ability to go into diabetic remission under the right conditions. If this is your goal, you might want to talk to your vet about giving insulin instead. Lantus, Levemir or PZI are all good options. Lantus and Levemir are available over the counter at any pharmacy in Canada. You don't actually need your vets prescription but it is good to have their support.

 

Thank you for your thoughts. I realize that insulin maybe the way to go, however, along with the side effects of oral meds, there are also the dangers of not giving the right amount of insulin as well. I am not very confident when it comes to injections and have just recently been able to prick Nelson's ears for blood testing. I am preparing myself that if after 8 weeks, which is the prescription's end, that I may have to start injections. Any further suggestions in maintaining on injections of course would be appreciated. Thanks again. :smile:

 

Best advice when it comes to starting insulin is start low and go slow with it. Most cats should be started on either .5u to 1u twice a day and monitored at home periodically through out the day. You can always increase the dose later if it isn't enough to bring the blood sugar into the desired range but you can't get it out of the cat once it is shot.

Also you will want to have put together a hypo kit just in case you do get a low reading and need to intervene to bring the cat back up into safe numbers. Some of the basics for a hypo kit are : High carb gravy food, Karo syrup/pancake syrup/honey to get the numbers up quickly. As well as an extra package of test strips, oral syringe, and even a back up set of batteries for your meter. (Never want to not be able to test because of a dead meter or no strips).

But if you are home testing and comfortable with that process, low readings are easily handled without endangering your kitty.

Mel and The Fur Gang

 

Thanks :smile: Lots of incredible support!

 

When you first get the insulin syringes it can help your confidence to practice injecting water into an orange or an apple. Helps you to get the feel for things.