Questions!!!

What we want to know is today our plan is switching our cat to wet food who has been a dry food eater his whole life. We are wondering how often we should home test our cat's sugar to see how this transition is going. Should we test once a day, twice a day?????? We also are going to be changing his Insulin from Vetsulin to a different kind of insulin. Should we be doing all of this in one day or should we switch the insulin 1st and then switch the food after we regulate his sugars. We are going to be meeting with our vet to go over things today but we would like some advice first. Our vet's office isn't up todate on diabetic cats.

 

First, congrats on hometesting! This is such an important part of managing feline diabetes. You have to test before every shot - to make sure it is safe to give insulin and in what dosage. Then you need to find the nadir (lowest point the insulin takes your kitty) but that will depend on your cat and on the insulin. So after you decide on insulin, you can start doing some spot checks at +2, +4, +6, +8 etc. (+2 is our universal way of saying 2 hours since the insulin shot) These do not have to be all done on the same day, but over a few days, keeping the data.

The food question depends on the cat. Oliver was thrilled to have wet, had no stomach upsets, and we never looked back. Some kitties will resist the change; some will get stomach upsets if it is all done at once. If you think it may be a problem, you could start slowly. 1/3 wet plus 2/3 of the old food. Then move on until you are eventually feeding all wet.

What kind of insulin do you want to use? Before you see the vet, you might go over to our Insulin Support Group forums. Check out the stickies and posts on the PZI and Lantus/Levemir forums. Those are the three most popular insulins on this site. If you have a preference, print out the info and take it to the vet. Lots of vets are not up to date on Lantus and Levemir; they are human insulins that have now been successsfully used with cats, but are relatively new. Be sure to start low and go slow - this is usually .5 to 1 unit of insulin twice a day.

If you are hometesting, and start with a nice low dose, I think you can do the diet and insulin change at the same time.

 

Thank you so much for the speedy reply. This whole process seems so overwhelming. It is so nice to get feedback form people who have been there/ done that or just have a lot of knowledge on the subject.I hope the vet visit goes good today, from what I've read so far Lantus looks to be a very good insulin??? I think we are also going to buy wellness as our wet low carb food??? Any thoughts on that or would you recommend a different kind??. We have a good Petco in town so hopefully they will have a good selection. Thank you so much for your help in these times. Ryan

 

Lantus is a good choice and many cats do well on it. Read the stickies over on the Lantus board to understand how it works for cat, viewforum.php?f=9

One thing it know is that Lantus is a U100 insulin and you must use U100 insulin syringes. And you buy Lantus from the Human pharmacy with a prsecription. Most people buy the Lantus cartridges or SoloStar pens instead of a 10 ml bottle. This thread has info about cartridges and SoloStar pens: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2337

Wellness is fine. Look for the ones that have the little yellow triangle that says "grain-free". The Wellness CORE varieties are also fine.

Any low carb brand is good. The most important thing is that your cat likes to eat it. Use the food charts find low carb foods: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html Some popular brands on this board are Fancy Feast, Nature's Variety Instinct, Merrick, and Friskies.

 

Since you are giving insulin, you should do the switch of food when you are around to watch the cat, and test every two hours (do a curve) or more if symptoms of a hypo show up. If you are giving a lot of insulin, it might not be a bad idea to cut the dose in half when doing the switch from such a high carb food to a low carb food.

It is better to leave the cat with high blood sugar levels for a day or two then to risk it dropping too low for even a moment.

When my vet gets a newly diagnosed cat, he recommends a food change for two weeks before starting insulin. A lot of cats get regular blood sugar levels (remission) on a food change a lone.

You should wait several weeks before making additional dramatic changes. Do food for a few weeks, then change insulin. Or change insulin first, then change the food. It can take several weeks for a body to adjust to food/insulin changes.

Connie

 

Yes, Lantus is very popular here. And there is an active support group for it, which is a huge help. One caution. Your kitty may test high at the vet. (Noisy, strange people poking, strange smells = stress = high blood glucose.) It is often a problem that vets base the dose on the number they got in their office. The number you get at home is likely to be lower, and need less insulin. If I were you, and the vet suggested over 1 unit, I would just say that I am worried because I have just started this process and I want to start low and then go up, if need be.

Wellness is a great food. Have you seen Janet and Binky's food chart: http://www.felinediabetes.com/diabetic-cat-diets.htm Janet and Binky’s chart Janet has done all the work for us. You are looking for a food that is under 8-10% carbs. (All brands have some higher carb and some lower carb flavors.) We used Fancy Feast, because it was less expensive and Oliver would eat it. Either is fine; the ingredients in Wellness tend to be a little higher grade.

Good luck at the vet. You are way ahead of the game because you have done your homework and know what questions to ask and what to look out for. You may get lucky and have an enlightened vet who is up to date on FD. If not, just remember that you are your kitty's best advocate, and you are the one responsible for his/her care.

 

I can't say thank you enough to everyone who has taken the time to help my wife and I out with our cat Hoyt. There is soooo much to learn about FD. As of right now, we switched Hoyt's diet to 100% wellness canned food from Science Diet/Hills dry. Today we had a good meeting with our vet and he gave us a new perscription for Lantus instead of what was perscribed earlier (Vetsulin). Between the new diet, new insulin and an extra ammount of snuggling hopefully Hoyt is on the right track. We also bought a home BG test kit with all the fixings so we can keep an eye on his BG at home. Again thank you everyone and please keep up the great advice!

Also, how do I attach a pic of Hoyt to this site. I want everyone to see the kitty they helped out!

 

Welcome to our FDMB family and be patient with yourself. You sound like you really love your cats, so you have come to the perfect place. Get some chocolate, sit back and get ready to read. Also, remember Every Cat Is Different. (ECID) Also, remember opinions may vary sometimes on this board, so you may get different views. Unfortunately, that is human nature.
Sorry this is very long, but there is a lot to say! Also, remember we were ALL newbies once and are feeling just like you are right now! OK……..breathe………. :RAHCAT

You do not need any type of prescription food or “special” diabetic food. Janet & Binky’s chart is on the top of this page! Low carb is best for diabetics. I try to stay around 10% or under. I feed Whiskas, 9-Lives and mostly Friskies. Diabetes is very treatable and does not cost as much as you would think. If you are giving a high dose of insulin and feeding dry, be careful with switching to canned food. You MUST reduce the insulin at the same time you switch to canned food.

Please create a profile if you have not already done so. It will help us to help you. We need to know what kind of insulin you are on, what needles you are using (U-40 or U-100), what are you feeding, how much insulin you are giving and when, BG test results, etc. There are many people on this board from all over the world, so it will be helpful to know what area and time zone you are in.

Remember that your cat is YOUR cat, and YOU are paying your VET to help you take care of him; diabetes was probably a day or two worth of notes when the vet was in college; it is probably NOT a day-to-day existence with his own cat trying to maintain a quality of life. Sorry to say, but I would have overdosed my guys on insulin if I followed my vet's advice. Vets, unfortunately are not as knowledgeable as they should be on diabetes. I try and make my points to my vet with my opinions about MY cat, but if he refuses to listen, I say thank you, you have had a lot of schooling, smile and then do what I know is best for my cats myself.

Sometimes, as I did, you have to take a leap of faith and trust these people on this board who deal with diabetes day in and day out. Trust me. You will not be disappointed. OK………..breathe again……….get some chocolate…….. cat_pet_icon

Also, please realize that it takes insulin about a week to settle. START LOW AND GO SLOW!! The usual starting dose from our experiences is 1u twice a day for at least a week. Insulin in cats is NOT and I repeat NOT based on weight. This is a misconception that a lot of us have gotten from our vets here. pc_work

You have to be patient, as I also had to learn!! Do not adjust the dose upwards based on one test. Don’t freak out based on one test result. As long as the levels stay on the high side, keep the same dose twice a day for at least the initial week period and you should see improvements. When you have some time (hee hee), read my profile.

If you are not hometesting already, you really need to start!! Hometesting is VERY important. Think of it as a human diabetic does. *If it were you or a child of yours, you'd be testing blood glucose levels at home prior to each shot; you'd be working with your doctor to determine a proper dose based on those shot results, correct?* Some vets do not agree with hometesting and I cannot for the life of me understand why. Most vets, sadly are not knowledgeable enough in feline diabetes. Insulin is a VERY powerful drug and you NEED to hometest before giving a shot. This is very important. The vet would rather have you bring the cat to them, stress it out more, which may spike the levels anyway and then they can charge you $$. Hometesting saved me a lot of money and it is VERY important for you personally to know the cat’s levels and how it is reacting to the insulin before you shoot so you do not pass up your ideal dosage.

Thanks to everyone's help here I learned to home test 2 cats and they both got off insulin within 3 weeks with diet change…but of course, they reacting both DIFFERENTLY with the process. If I can do it with 2 cats twice a day (and more on curve days), ANYONE can do it. It does NOT hurt them as much as you think it does. It just stings for a moment and then it is gone, you can try it on yourself. Also, put pressure on the ear after poking and it should minimize the nub. They won't mind it once they start feeling better. I use the True Track meter (CVS or Walgreens brand) which I love. And, the strips are also reasonable. Also, remember to give them a treat after the test. Here is a link to a member videos on hometesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ6iXetR398

I would not feed DRY food if at all possible. Of course, it is better than nothing – you MUST get them to eat if you are giving insulin, but if there is any chance, get them off the dry. I took my guys off dry and within a month they were off insulin. Again, remember that switching from dry to wet can cause a drop in blood sugars, so you MUST reduce insulin at the same time to make sure you are not giving too much insulin. I truly believe also that I saved some of my many others from developing diabetes. I also saved so, so much money changing them all to regular canned cat food.
When Blackie and Jackie got diagnosed, I was afraid to start shots. The people on this board made me realize it was no big deal. (They went on PZI insulin around 3-25-06 and went off on 4-18-06! Please also realize that diet plays a BIG, BIG part in insulin needs. I switched my cats off dry food to all wet and I was never so happy. It was a challenge to try to regulate 2 cats at once.


Welcome to the Sugar Dance. flip_cat
Welcome to the Vampire Club.

If I can do it, ANYONE can!!!
It does get easier. Trust us.

You need to test BEFORE you shoot. It usually goes: Test, Feed, Shoot



There's a saying something like "better the sugar level is too high for a day than too low for a minute".

 

Glad you had a good visit and got Lantus.

If you are going to start insulin and change to wet food, you have to start hometesting now! When we changed Oliver over from Science Diet to Fancy Feast, his numbers came down 100 points overnight. If we hadn't been testing, we would have given him too much insulin.

I had thought this morning that you were already hometesting. Do you need some tips/websites to look at? You really need to have a reading before you give the next shot of insulin.

 

Tomorrow morning will be Hoyts first shot of Lantus. He currently has a belly full of wellness canned and in the a.m we will take a BG test to see where he is at. Our vet was really excited we were willing to home test our Hoyt. He recommended us calling him or stopping in once in a while to go over the numbers. I will get our profile set uptonight or tomorrow morning. Thanks soooo much. There is no way I could be going through this without the help from all of you. I am so lucky to have found this website.

 

If you've not already come across the site developed by Lisa Pierson, DVM is is an incredible resource for information on feline nutrition. She gives information on transitioning from dry to wet along with answers to questions you probably haven't even thought about yet.

 

With Hoty eating wet food for a day, I woke up this morning was ready to feed him, but wanted to do a quick spot check to see what his BG was. Did the test.......137 .... :shock: ...just yesterday it was 414 and he was still drinking lots of water. So basically we cut the carbs from his diet (Hills r/d) and he dropped that much and hardly touched his water dish during the night.. Needless to say we decided not to start him on Lantus this a.m. with a BG of 137.

We have a kitchen FULL of cans of wellness food and will continue to spot check him to see what his BG is. So far looks GREAT. As far a cal. intake. a 12.5 can of wellness has 500 cal , we did some research and with a gradual weight loss in mind we are thinking 250 cal per day. Does this seem to low to you guys, In the past when he was eating sooooo much, his food dish was always full of Science Diet Lite....I looked up the cal. per cup and I could not believe it, Hoyt was eating somewhere in the 450-750 cal a day. I can't imagin how many carb's we was taking in-I feel so bad. I wish I would have learned about this a long time ago. I makes me want to go to the store and stand in the cat food isle and warn everyone I see. Anyway, this reading of 137 has been the first good news I've see/heard in 4 days now so hopefully we onto something here. Thank you so much again to everyone here. I know I've said it before but there is no way I could do this without your help. Ryan, & (Hoyt)

 

Hey hi! What an awesome catch you did there on that test! GOOD CALL!!
I know what u mean by comparing what we all "use" to feed our cats,, especially with dry food...mine got very big and then very thin very fast til DX day.

As an example, my nondiabetic kitty eats one can (5.5oz) of wellness a day. This is good for her size and weight, she's not a fussy eater anymore since being on a wet food diet. I switched her the same day as Luna. I'm not about to have two diabetic kitties, know what I mean?

I often stand in the pet food store and wanna grab other people's dry food purchase and throw it against the wall, lol..but I'd prob have to pay for it - and why should I contribute anymore $$ to the dry food companies anyway?

I really hope you get more spotchecks in there and see how the day goes for Hoyt...post your updates here as much as you want.

There is always a chance some kitties never really need insulin, just a diet change.. and I hope yours is one of them, but you do need to keep an eye on them for any rises.

I believe non diabetic range is between 60-120, hoping others will help out with that.
Good job!

 

> with a gradual weight loss in mind we are thinking 250 cal per day

I'd suggest letting Hoyt eat however much he likes for a week or two. His body's still thinking it's diabetic at this point and still thinks it needs to eat a lot of food to get enough nutrition. If you let him free-feed for a week or so, his appetite should come down on it's own, without subjecting him to food stress. Then, once he's settled into being however diabetic he's going to end up being, then you can start restricting his diet if necessary. But many cats' appetites decrease once they get onto a good diet, you just have to give them a chance to adjust.