Raw Diet-Is this better

Several responses to my question on Wellness cat food said they give Raw. I don't want to sound dumb here but what does that entail? Just raw chicken and hamburger? How much would I feed Harley? With canned cat food I know what to do. With raw food I would be blind and isn't there some vitamins and minerals that need to be supplemented?

Pattie

 

start with http://www.catinfo.org run by Dr. Peirson (who posts here as Dr. Lisa)
You can also check out

http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm
http://feline-nutrition.org/

 

Basically "RAW feeding" means just that: uncooked meat. There are different ways to feed your cat a RAW diet.

One is to feed a commerical brand of RAW. These have all the vitamins and minerals that your cat needs. There are many brands out there, some are grain-free. The food is typically nugget or patty shaped. And you can choose between frozen RAW and freeze-dried RAW. Nature's Variety is one brand you can feed: http://www.naturesvariety.com/rawCAT There are many others. Just ask if you want suggestions :smile:

Another way is to use a pre-mix with raw meat. The pre-mix contains all the vitamins and minerals your cat needs. You just mix it all together and feed. http://www.felinefuture.com/ and http://www.knowbetterpetfood.com/home are two pre-mixes. If you're in the US or Canada, you can request a free sample of Feline Future to try: http://www.felinefuture.com/?p=1031 The Feline Future web site has some RAW recipies that you can use as well as a cooked meat recipie that you can use to transition your cat over to RAW.

A third way is to make RAW food yourself using a nuutritionally complete recipie. Dr. Lisa's web site has a good one that you can use: http://catinfo.org/makingcatfood.htm Catnutrition.org has another one: http://www.catnutrition.org/recipes.php Buying uncooked meat in bulk and spending hours in the kitchen grinding meat and measuring vitamins and stuff and mixing and portioning out the food doesn't appeal to some people.

There is a "frankenprey model" that I think is just feeding whole uncooked meat (ie an entire chicken or an enetire rabbit, etc) with no added vitamins/minerals. You can Google that for more info.

 

I've used commercial raw foods and am now learning to make my own. I'm following a friend's recipe, which works for her cats and my cats seem to like it as well. I also provide canned food as choices along with the raw.

Maybe one day, we will go 100% raw, maybe not, either way, knowing it's an option is a good thing.

 

I use the commercial premade raw. Only Mr. Darcy likes raw so it's simpler for me, I just place a frozen medallion in some water, after a little bit it's thawed and juicy and he can eat it all day. He gets canned also, but loves the raw as a treat. There are some days when he wont eat canned and then gets about three medallions, I guess it depends on his mood

As an FYI only, Mr. Darcy went off the juice by switching originally to canned fancy feast gluten free.

 

I started feeding Pablo the raw diet Dr. Lisa discusses on her site a few weeks ago, and he loves it. My other cat loves it too, so it's a hit at my house!

There are numerous benefits, most of which you can read about on Dr. Lisa's site, but these are my two reasons I'll keep feeding raw for the foreseeable future:

1. I control the quality of the food my cats eat. There aren't all those impossible-to-pronounce additives and preservatives, and the meat is fresh and not some kind of by-product or organ.
2. There is very little poop in the litterbox!!! :lol: When I was feeding canned food, I felt like I was scooping the litterbox of a labrador. Now, Pab only goes a few times a WEEK instead of a few times a day. Totally worth it!

And take it from someone who hates to cook and rarely touches raw meat (I'm a former vegetarian and I just don't know what to do with the stuff usually!)...it's easier to make your own than you'd imagine. The first time I made a batch, it took me about 3 hours from start to finish. It gets faster as you go, though. The biggest investment is the the grinder, but I plan on doing this for a long time, so the cost really is minimal compared to high-quality canned food or commercial raw.

I never thought I'd be the "type of person" who made their own cat food. I always thought people who made raw food were all health freaks and tree-hugger types. Apparently I was very, very wrong.

 

Is regular 'grocery store' raw ok for them if just testing the waters, so to speak?

I understand the need for supplemental nutrients if this were the primary diet, knowing it to be nutrionally deficient without them. But if I am still feeding canned primarily, just trying to see if he even will respond to raw at all, is there anything wrong with using regular boneless chicken or turkey breast meat, or ground chicken or turkey breast?

I have often wondered why when I read about people making their own, that they order the meat from certain online sites catering to this. Is that meat any different than what I can get at regular grocery store?

Is it better or necessary to find hormone free, organic, natural, etc...? Or will the pedestrian stuff do?
(I've also had this question even relating to cooked if we want to add some to the canned to 'up' the protein a bit)

I thought I might see if Hank would try some maybe as a treat or snack, but also if my wet food hating dry carb addict Elvis would respond.
At this point, I would have no intention of doing it as the staple of their diet. But if they like it, might try to work some in.

As an augment, I wasn't sure how strict the preparation would need to be. Seems the other necessary vitamins & nutrients would be obtained in their main diet.

betty

 

It's fine :smile:

Nope :smile: An occasional piece of raw meat as a treat is fine if you are still feeding canned food. I think some people here feed mainly canned food and supplement with occasional raw.

Some meats you can buy online are probably organic free-range hormone-free and you can buy more "exotic" meats online, such as rabbit and venison. A local butcher shop or specialty market such as Whole Foods may sell "exotic" and organic meats and can also order you specialty meats and items.

http://www.hare-today.com/ is one online place that sells a variety of meats for RAW pet food making.

[/quote]

I guess it's just personal choice. Some people feel that organic all natural is best for a variety of reasons. Others can't afford the organic stuff or just can't buy it in their area and so use the "regular" stuff in the supermarkets.

You can try commerical freeze-dred RAW to start, if you want. Some cats accept that more readily than frozen or fresh RAW. Freeze-dred RAW has the texture of freeze dried treats such as Halo Liv-A-Littles so some cats just think they're eating a familiar treat :smile: There are various brands out there. Just make sure it is grain-free and does't contain hidden carbs or sugars. My cat loved Stella and Chewy's... for dogs because he wouldn't eat the one for cats :roll: http://www.stellaandchewys.com

 

I don't know that raw is "better". I would trust the commercial raw. I'm not comfortable making it myself. Neither Pooka nor Isis would touch it, so it didn't work for me anyway.

 

Betty-

I had a lot of the same questions you had. My BF used to make his own raw with supplements he bought following a dog food recipe he had from a vet book, so I've seen it done. Back before there was any diabetes in my house I did make one of the cat recipes and my cats wouldn't touch it.

Fast forward Boomer has both diabetes and IBD so I think raw is a good option. I bought Nature's Variety chicken medalions - they already have supplements in them and are low carb too. I zap it in the microwave for about 10 seconds and he'll eat it with freeze dried chicken on top. I'll cook it less over time. Hopefully he'll eat the stuff someday and I can get him off his IBD pill. I also jusdt ordered a sample of the Instincts that was listed by Squeem. You send them an email and they'll send you a sample - this is the poweder you add to your own meat. I requested the one with chicken liver because if you don't get the one with liver you have to add it and there's no way I'm messing with liver!!! I assume I'll have to cook this a little too. Boomer didn't take to raw (BIG SHOCK :lol: )

 

When I requested one last year, I received three 8 gram samples: the regular, the beef liver, and the chicken liver.

I used the Feline Future cooked meat recipie since my cat didn't like raw. Basically you just simmer finely chopped or ground meat until cooked through and add in one of the samples and mix together. My cat loved it. I used ground chicken, 8 oz for one batch I think. I only gave him a spoonful of the mix per day as a treat. The rest of the batch kept in the fridge for a week.

You can slowly decrease the cooking time until your cat is eating just the raw meat.

 

Harley has both diabetes and IBD. His bg have been high - even on 6 units lantus. That's why I want to know about the raw diet.

Pattie

 

Hi, Harley and Pattie ;-)
I know I replied to your other post & more than likely mentioned Raw (have not went back & looked)
I have Baby & Sadi. Baby has Feline Diabetes & I have successfully switched her to 90% Raw Diet. If it were up to her, she would eat only Raw. I have to leave out Wellness or a canned food when I am at work because Raw cannot sit out all day -- in most instances she waits to eat until I get home (which I don't want her to do) but she loves Raw that much. In my opinion - Raw is absolutely awesome, any kittens that know no different that I have in the future - I will only feed Raw. I am not necessarily right, but offering my input. I feed Nature's Variety -- I tried Primal, but that was too rich for Baby. Whatever you choose, I have no doubt will be right for you, each kitty is different.

 

:0)
We are also new to all of this ~~~
Our Bonnie came to us feral, we just put out bowls of dry food.. and now know over time that we were not helping in the "long" run.
We are switching to a raw and wet diet, which has put her into a "honeymoon" !!
One trick we have found is we buy a raw cat meat diet (free range chicken/ turkey. Or fish and chicken) from our local pet feed store and then add a raw food supplement called "instincts". I have heard that you can also buy meat from your grocer but par boil it first to kill any surface bacteria, and then grind.
http://www.felineinstincts.com/
- we spoon the raw meat mixture into ice cube trays and leave a little room. After it freezes, we add a 1/4 inch of water to protect the raw food from freezer burn. We take a cube of raw food out in the morning - we run it under hot tap water to wash off the ice and put it out on a plate with a dollop of canned low carb cat food (with the cube of the frozen raw meat) when we leave for work.
When we get home... the raw food is always gone ~ !
But we are finding that she likes both raw and canned.
I feel it is something you have to find out with time and experimenting, what will work for your dear cat.
Read everything you can - everyone in here is so so helpful - really gave us a feeling like we were not alone in tying to find the best for our girl.
:0) All our best ~
Bonnie's folks ~ :0)

 

If you are NOT grinding, but just cutting up some pieces or buying pre-ground at grocery store, should you then Par-boil it first also?


i like the ice cube tray idea. That's a good one if we ever decide to go further and make batches. At this point, I'm just thinking about adding some extra protein to their canned diet, boil some chicken for snacks, maybe give some raw ground turkey or chicken from the grocery store.

There are plenty of places around here that sell free range, organic, etc..but obviously it's pricier and I don't ususally eat it myself. The feed store is another idea that hadn't occured. I'm just thinking for price and convenience, if it is safe and just as acceptable, to just pick some up for them there. I can buy the family packs and we'll share!


betty

PS: i was not able to find link on the felineinstincts site for samples

 

I've read (from links given to us by users in this forum) that buying grocery store ground meats is not good because humans will be cooking this meat -
- but for raw meat for our animals there could be bacteria hiding in there...... .
Best to buy ground meat already prepped to be eaten raw for pets - or clean and grind your own.
Gia and Quirk gave me a good url to read...
http://www.catinfo.org
:0) All our best !

I'm editing to add these links from raw pet food dealers close to me (Bay Area in California).
And again I'm new to this, and want the best for my pet, and also want to learn more about humane animal farming.
Anyone with info on these dealers or others is most appreciated.
http://www.radfood.com/
http://www.primalpetfoods.com/

 

Betty-
I copied this from the Instincts site listed above in Squeem's post:

<<Samples are available in North America only. Request a sample by emailing our US licensed manufacturer and distributor at jim@knowbonespetsupply.com and include your name and mailing address. We will send a free sample - shipping included! All inquiries are confidential and your information will NEVER be shared with a third part. One sample per household only.>>

Send this guy an email to get your free sample!

 

I never fed a raw diet, but I did give Angus hunks of raw chicken breast fairly frequently. The one thing to watch for buying meat from a grocery is that a lot of the "family packs" are injected with brine. Check the package to make sure it does not say something like "contains up to 15% of sodium solution".

See this link:
Chicken tax

 

No need :smile: A cat's digestive system can handle raw meat. If you are concerned about bacteria or growth hormones, you may want to buy organic free range meat.

Here: http://www.felinefuture.com/?p=1031

 

Brand Names

Harley lives in Minneapolis and when I went out to look for commercial raw foods, they contained grain, cranberries, etc. Does anyone from Mpls. know of brands without extra stuff in it.

Pattie

 

Unfortunately, many commerical RAW foods contain some amount of fruits and veggies and other "useless" ingredients.

Here are some grain-free RAW brands you can try. Some are available as both frozen and freeze dried. Each web site has a store locator search you can use to find a local store that sells the product. You can also order online from places like OnlyNaturalPet.com

http://www.naturesvariety.com/rawCAT
http://www.bravorawdiet.com/
http://www.rawadvantagepetfood.com/forcats.html (PDF list of all the products and ingredients: http://www.rawadvantagepetfood.com/Deta ... -_2010.pdf)
http://www.primalpetfoods.com/
http://www.natureslogic.com/products/cp.html
http://www.stellaandchewys.com/index.html (the feline frozen diet isn't listed on the web site but you can order it from here http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/ ... 00012.aspx)

I haven't checked any of the above for hidden carb sources like potatos or starches or sugars like honey so be sure to read the ingredient list.

 

:0)
Bonnie's switch to wet started about two months ago. We put both raw and canned on a plate. At first she ate the canned... and little raw.
Now she eats only the raw with relish, and leaves the canned :0)
We buy ready made raw cat food at our local feed store (added those product lincs in an earlier post) and add Instincts.
We also treat her with freeze dried liver and wild salmon (halo offers the salmon!).
I have heard it is dangerous to buy grocery store ground meats...
- if you don't have a supplier near you - better to buy whole raw meat and cut it up yourself.
http://www.catinfo.org/makingcatfood.ht ... f_Dry_Food
We are still learning every day that goes by...
- we wish you all the best !!!!!!!!
Bonnie's family ~
ps - we also learned that using paper plates is a lot easier than cleaning old raw food off dishes. Just toss after 12 hours. We also keep the tossed stuff in a bag in the freezer till garbage day :0) No flies... no ants !
- we also found that you can puree raw meat in a food processor, and don't need a grinder :0)

 

Wow, you have gotten tons of resources to read!

So you can add this one to your list too:
http://www.knowwhatyoufeed.com

This is a good option if you are interested in making your own raw or cooked. It is a good product that has a great tool in the website that allows you to build your own recipes if you desire. One of the problems I've found with the raw with bones recipes is a) the unknown nutrient profiles b) most tend to have a fairly high amount of phosphorous. The above web site and product allows one to have a much better idea of the nutrient profiles of the food they are feeding.

Cooked food is another option and this is what I do for H for a couple reasons.