? Really horribly confused and need your help

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Misterbeesmom

Misterbeesmom

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first off, i cant figure out whats going on with mr b in terms of what dose to give him. we've been on BCP PZI for 16 days. prior to that we were unregulated for 10 months on lantus, and had a very short stint on vetsulin which was just awful.

second, i cannot figure out how to enter the PZI dosing from 9/15-9/25 in his ss because we initially were dosing anywhere from 6-12 hours. i tried to record it and it just added frustration on top of frustration. i'm a mess today so please bear with me. i'm so frustrated that i feel i could vomit. we're coming up on a year since his diabetic dx.

so in the ss, i have entered when we started dosing at +12's which was 9/26.

i realize this isnt much history but i'm asking if you'd be kind enough to look and tell me what you think.

overall what seems to happen is we get into the blues, and then we start getting higher numbers after 1 good run on that dose. after seeing the blues briefly on 4u back on 9/23, he went up into yellow, then got stuck in pinks and reds and i got nervous i was giving him too much insulin, so i dropped to 2u which brought him down into yellow again, then after 1 run of that he hit the pinks again. so, did a little increase yesterday, saw yellow, then pink, and now today the red is back at +3 which is well into the hours where we should see onset. i cannot test again until later this afternoon.

is this bouncing? do i increase or decrease or stay put if its bouncing? is it something other than bouncing? i am sooooooo confused and nauseous i dont know what to do.

this is a relatively quiet board so i'm going to post on main forum as well.
 
Your spreadsheet looks pretty good - lots of yellows and blues. The cycle today could be a bounce from yesterday's blues. (It is important to figure out what your cat's bounce pattern might look like - they are not all the same). If he is going to surf in higher ranges the day after blues, then you know to expect that. He may not be a cat that bounces for pmps after a cycle of blues.

One thing that might keep you from stalling with low preshots is to skinny up the dose for yellow pre shots under 250 or so but continue with the dose on the higher yellows and pinks.

It can be helpful for you to post daily with your numbers and get feedback. Many members here do that and watch each other's spreadsheets to get more insight into how the insulin might work in a particular cat. Maybe check out some of their spreadsheets today and see if anything similar clicks about your kitty.
 
I'm not an expert but here are some thoughts on what I see since 09/15:
1. Mr. Biddles has been on PZI only 16 days. This insulin is in and out, unlike Lantus. He needs time for his body to get accustomed to a different action.
2. Some cats are jumpier than others and won't easily give up their dosing "secrets". Mr. B might be one of them - too soon to tell.
3. Not sure I know what you mean about changing doses from +6 to +12. Time of day? At any rate, 12 hours between doses is usually best for PZI although it's more forgiving about dose intervals than Lantus is. This can be explored later if needed.
4. I've looked at the recent data on your SS and I see that you've changed doses quite frequently in response to his numbers. Because he's still adjusting to PZI it might be better to keep a dose longer until you get a better picture of how he'll handle it.
5. Although a unit of insulin is a unit of insulin, the dosing for Lantus might not transfer to similar for PZI because of depot effects, etc.
6. The array of pinks and reds might be suggesting too high a dose.

My cat was on Lantus for 2 months at the beginning but it didn't work well for him. He's still unregulated - have a look at his SS. He's very unpredictable but I plug away at it and I've learned tons about him. :)
 
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We've been bouncing for weeks....up, down, up, down.....had a really good blue day, a couple of days ago, then back up to pink and red.....it's very frustrating, but I started looking at other spread sheets, and I'm trying to learn how to read mine, and what to do....learning to analyze the info......tough call on the dosage for sure!
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Your spreadsheet looks pretty good - lots of yellows and blues. The cycle today could be a bounce from yesterday's blues. (It is important to figure out what your cat's bounce pattern might look like - they are not all the same). If he is going to surf in higher ranges the day after blues, then you know to expect that. He may not be a cat that bounces for pmps after a cycle of blues.

One thing that might keep you from stalling with low preshots is to skinny up the dose for yellow pre shots under 250 or so but continue with the dose on the higher yellows and pinks.

It can be helpful for you to post daily with your numbers and get feedback. Many members here do that and watch each other's spreadsheets to get more insight into how the insulin might work in a particular cat. Maybe check out some of their spreadsheets today and see if anything similar clicks about your kitty.
Click to expand...

? thanks but we have no blues on ss on PZI. you must be looking at our old lantus stuff (?) during a brief run of good luck before it went off the rails again ( i stopped recording in ss at that time), leading us to vetsulin and then to PZI. our current data isnt pretty.

thank you i will post daily his #'s and keep up with ss again.
 
Misterbeesmom said:
first off, i cant figure out whats going on with mr b in terms of what dose to give him. we've been on BCP PZI for 16 days. prior to that we were unregulated for 10 months on lantus, and had a very short stint on vetsulin which was just awful.

second, i cannot figure out how to enter the PZI dosing from 9/15-9/25 in his ss because we initially were dosing anywhere from 6-12 hours. i tried to record it and it just added frustration on top of frustration. i'm a mess today so please bear with me. i'm so frustrated that i feel i could vomit. we're coming up on a year since his diabetic dx.

so in the ss, i have entered when we started dosing at +12's which was 9/26.

i realize this isnt much history but i'm asking if you'd be kind enough to look and tell me what you think.

overall what seems to happen is we get into the blues, and then we start getting higher numbers after 1 good run on that dose. after seeing the blues briefly on 4u back on 9/23, he went up into yellow, then got stuck in pinks and reds and i got nervous i was giving him too much insulin, so i dropped to 2u which brought him down into yellow again, then after 1 run of that he hit the pinks again. so, did a little increase yesterday, saw yellow, then pink, and now today the red is back at +3 which is well into the hours where we should see onset. i cannot test again until later this afternoon.

is this bouncing? do i increase or decrease or stay put if its bouncing? is it something other than bouncing? i am sooooooo confused and nauseous i dont know what to do.

this is a relatively quiet board so i'm going to post on main forum as well.
Click to expand...

Are we looking at the same SS, Jen? I don't see any blue on 09/23. My comments are based on what I see on/after 09 15.
 
Becky Smith said:
We've been bouncing for weeks....up, down, up, down.....had a really good blue day, a couple of days ago, then back up to pink and red.....it's very frustrating, but I started looking at other spread sheets, and I'm trying to learn how to read mine, and what to do....learning to analyze the info......tough call on the dosage for sure!
Click to expand...
its hard to remain optimistic, isnt it? i'm finding it is. when i saw the yellows the other day, i exclaimed to myself, "well tomorrow's numbers are going to be shite!" and sure enough they were.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Are we looking at the same SS, Jen? I don't see any blue on 09/23. My comments are based on what I see on/after 09 15.
Click to expand...
i didnt record it cuz i dont know where to put the info when i was dosing at hours other than +12. i was dosing every 6 - 8 hours on average at first. how to record that on ss i have no idea. the color coding wont work if i put anything else in the field than numbers.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I'm not an expert but here are some thoughts on what I see since 09/15:
1. Mr. Biddles has been on PZI only 16 days. This insulin is in and out, unlike Lantus. He needs time for his body to get accustomed to a different action.
2. Some cats are jumpier than others and won't easily give up their dosing "secrets". Mr. B might be one of them - too soon to tell.
3. Not sure I know what you mean about changing doses from +6 to +12. Time of day? At any rate, 12 hours between doses is usually best for PZI although it's more forgiving about dose intervals than Lantus is. This can be explored later if needed.
4. I've looked at the recent data on your SS and I see that you've changed doses quite frequently in response to his numbers. Because he's still adjusting to PZI it might be better to keep a dose longer until you get a better picture of how he'll handle it.
5. Although a unit of insulin is a unit of insulin, the dosing for Lantus might not transfer to similar for PZI because of depot effects, etc.
6. The array of pinks and reds might be suggesting too high a dose.

My cat was on Lantus for 2 months at the beginning but it didn't work well for him. He's still unregulated - have a look at his SS. He's very unpredictable but I plug away at it and I've learned tons about him. :)
Click to expand...

ok will hang in there with doses longer before increase or decrease. its really, really hard to see him in the pinks and reds and basically do nothing except wait. i cant stop crying today!!!!
 
Misterbeesmom said:
i didnt record it cuz i dont know where to put the info when i was dosing at hours other than +12. i was dosing every 6 - 8 hours on average at first. how to record that on ss i have no idea. the color coding wont work if i put anything else in the field than numbers.
Click to expand...

I think the folks who are more knowledgeable than I am about PZI would say that's it's best dosed at 12 hour intervals or very close to that. I know that some people who use Lantus for TR will dose more frequently in response to BG on their frequent tests. My understanding is that PZI isn't most effective used this way. I'll defer to the experts on this though.

Overall I think that consistency is key right after diagnosis or any major change is made, like a different insulin.
 
Misterbeesmom said:
ok will hang in there with doses longer before increase or decrease. its really, really hard to see him in the pinks and reds and basically do nothing except wait. i cant stop crying today!!!!
Click to expand...

@Sue and Oliver (GA) might have more to say that will be helpful, Jen. Anything you can do to try to stay calmer while we put our heads together will be good for you and Mr. Biddles. I truly understand how you worry about him.
 
I apologize, I looked at the last numbers I saw before a blank space on the spreadsheet. Is there any way to move your PZI section up or start a new spreadsheet with PZI numbers? Sorry. Disregard my previous post.

So, moving forward. I think I'd hold the dose for 3 more cycles (our dosing increases tend to be every 6 cycles, every three days) and if he is still in the red and high yellows, increase by 0.25. It may be, that with all the bouncing and three different insulins, he just needs slow and steady increases until he reaches the point where he breaks through any insulin resistance.

I can understand your frustration. But scattering all through those sheets, he is responding to insulin. We just need to see what he needs on ProZinc.

I assume you've read the sticky on ProZinc. If not, they are in my signature in blue.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I think the folks who are more knowledgeable than I am about PZI would say that's it's best dosed at 12 hour intervals or very close to that. I know that some people who use Lantus for TR will dose more frequently in response to BG on their frequent tests. My understanding is that PZI isn't most effective used this way. I'll defer to the experts on this though.

Overall I think that consistency is key right after diagnosis or any major change is made, like a different insulin.
Click to expand...

dosing every 6-8 hours was driving me crazy anyways, so between that and mr b maybe getting a little too much insulin that way, convinced me to get back to dosing every 12, or approximately 12 at least. i havent had a good nights sleep in ages, so i'm not at my best.

thank you for your responses!
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
I apologize, I looked at the last numbers I saw before a blank space on the spreadsheet. Is there any way to move your PZI section up or start a new spreadsheet with PZI numbers? Sorry. Disregard my previous post.

So, moving forward. I think I'd hold the dose for 3 more cycles (our dosing increases tend to be every 6 cycles, every three days) and if he is still in the red and high yellows, increase by 0.25. It may be, that with all the bouncing and three different insulins, he just needs slow and steady increases until he reaches the point where he breaks through any insulin resistance.

I can understand your frustration. But scattering all through those sheets, he is responding to insulin. We just need to see what he needs on ProZinc.

I assume you've read the sticky on ProZinc. If not, they are in my signature in blue.
Click to expand...
ok super thank you! ok i really needed some fresh eyes and experienced feedback.

thank you will hang in there and not switch doses so quickly. i have a very hard time being patient when i see him struggling with his back legs, and drinking and peeing all the time. i've been patient for 11 months trying to get him well and its making me crazy. this would be easier if i didnt love him so damn much.

i did read the sticky. i had printed out your protocol for reference.
 
Have you added methylB12? Here is a link to neuropathy

http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Neuropathy

I know it's hard not to worry. But, if you can take some deep breaths and figure you are helping him by giving him insulin and making sure he stays in safe numbers, it may help. I know it seems like a long 11 months but in that time, he has been adjusting to different insulins, doses and levels. If you'll let us, we will try our best to help.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
I know it's hard not to worry. But, if you can take some deep breaths and figure you are helping him by giving him insulin and making sure he stays in safe numbers, it may help. I know it seems like a long 11 months but in that time, he has been adjusting to different insulins, doses and levels. If you'll let us, we will try our best to help.
Click to expand...


i will try! thank you
 
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