Received this private message from a new member

@Calicos are Best
Hello everyone, I am new to the Feline Diabetes Community! I have a calico kitty who is in need of some advice. I usually find threads on here that are extremely helpful, but I am struggling with my own kitty now. I just created an account today and was hoping to get some sound advice with some of my own questions. I would be so grateful to any input anyone can provide!
- My cat was diagnosed with diabetes in December of 2016.

- After reading on the Feline Diabetes site, I found that Classic Fancy Feast was the best diet.

- My cat only had to be on insulin for 9 days, then went into remission for 10 months!

- From October 2017 - January 2019 I have been struggling with her diabetes. (for about a year and a half) I would check my cat's blood glucose 1-2 times a day. I would only give insulin as needed. If the number was too low (under around 250s) I would not give insulin. If the number was too high I would give 1 unit.

- This past October 2018 my cat had to be hospitalized. I changed her diet for 1 month to the Hill's Diet m/d (glucose/weight management) My vet recommended it and I didn't really want to go on a prescription diet, but I didn't know what else to do.

- At the end of October my cat became very sick. She puked all over the floor. The following 4 days she would not eat, sat up like a meatloaf, became very lethargic, and hid in the house.

- My cat's diagnosis was pancreatitis. I was so worried that she was going to die. It cost me thousands of dollars I could not afford. I am still paying it off.

- The doctor at the hospital advised that my cat should be on a prescription diet again. She said that the new diet did NOT cause the pancreatitis.

- I told my doctor that I would prefer a food that was affordable and prescribed. She suggested a Kitten diet. I went to the stores and found a Kitten diet by Fancy Feast.

- Since November 2018 I have been feeding my cat, 3 cans of Kitten Fancy Feast. (1 1/2 cans in morning and 1 1/2 cans at night) She would also get 1 unit of insulin in morning and 1 unit at night.

- I was told by the vet there was no need to check the blood every day. They advised to start doing Blood curves instead. I kind of like knowing the blood curve numbers. It's just that the strips are so expensive!

- I have done 3 blood curves since my cat came home from the hospital at the end of October. By the 3rd blood curve in the beginning of January the animal hospital Dr. advised my cat did not appear to need insulin at this time.

- I stopped the insulin as advised on 1/7/19, but was hesitant. I decided to listen to the Doctor.

- On January 11th I made a 14 hour drive to be with family. My mother is very sick and family needs support at this time. I brought my cat because I can't afford to board her and I don't know anyone who would be able to care for her properly.

- On January 14th my cat got sick. She took the drive down here well. She ate food and was acting normal for 3 days.

- Tried to give my cat water and food for 2 days. She did not improve. I took her to my parent's vet on January 16th. They gave her fluids, injections of antibiotic, anti-pain, and anti-nausea. I was sent home with a bag of fluid to try to keep my cat hydrated. The blood work was showing this was a diabetes issue. They didn't have the blood testing kits for pancreatitis. This vet suggest doing a Royal Canin diet called glycobalance.

- January 17th, my cat did not appear any better. Still not eating, not drinking, and sitting up like a meatloaf again. In the area I am in, there are no animal hospitals open 24/7. I found one 1 hour and 20 mins away. Took and admitted her there.

- January 18th - my cats is finally eating! Doing better. The hospital has her on a Hill's Diet called ID, which is for Digestive Care. They believe she has a bladder infection due to her diabetes being out of control.

Planning to pick my kitty up later tonight at the hospital!

***** CAN ANYONE SUGGEST ANY FOODS FOR A DIABETIC KITTY WITH DIABETES AND PANCREATITIS? ****

My cat goes between 8 lbs and 10 lbs. When she is sick she can get down to 8. I have been trying to maintain the 10 lbs.

***** WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK OF:
Hill's Diet ID Digestive Care and Royal Canin Glycobalance? ****

***** WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK OF THESE DIETS I HAVE SEEN OTHER SUGGEST:

Weruva
Tiki
Wellness
Evo
Life's Abundance "Instinctive Choice" ? *****

******** Thank you in Advance for any advice anyone can provide!!!! This community is Amazing and I have been reading threads on here for a couple years now! ******* I am sorry this post is so long! Going to be running errands. I will be checking throughout the day and hoping to hear what you guy say!!!

 

I switched my boys recently to an all canned diet (Fancy Feast Classic paté) with some cooked chicken and turkey in between. Max's numbers have improved a lot in the past two or three days. Like they say here...ditch the dry food. It's not great for diabetic kitties. Can't weight in on the pancreatitis as I (fortunately) haven't had to deal with that yet. I don't have picky eaters either! There are certain things Max won't eat (like his vitamins, ugh) but he'll gobble down any kind of meat and just about any kind of canned food. Is your girl picky? That might make things more difficult.

 

lol, no my kitty is not a picky eater. She is always hungry. Especially at dinner time. Her tummy has a clock in it like most kitties! Then she starts meowing a lot, telling my family and I, "feed me, feed me, I'm a poor hungry kitty!"

I used to feed my cat some kind of dry food formula for hairballs. I think it might have been purina. (not prescription) When she got diabetes I switched to the Fancy Feast Classic pate. It seemed to work so well for some time. Her diabetes has gotten worse. She is so fragile that I am not sure what to do. I have read about people on here who have done raw meat diets. I am not sure if that sounds like something I could do? I would worry about salmonella and other things going wrong.

If Fancy Feast is not an option with a cat who had Diabetes and Pancreatits, what would you guys suggest?

Here are the last 2 blood curves I did...

3rd Blood Glucose Curve: (1/3/19)
*gave 1 unit of insulin at 8:26 AM

8:20 AM - 66
10:25 AM - 263
12:26 PM - 269
2:20 PM - 197
4:25 PM - 135
6:25 PM - 68
8:11 PM - 42



2nd Blood Glucose Curve: (11/21/18)
*gave 1 unit of insulin at 12:42 PM

12:36 PM - 373
2:35 PM - 335
4:40 PM - 226
6:30 PM - 142
8:33 PM - 126
10:30 PM - 145
12:32 AM - 201

 

You gave her insulin when she was at 66? That seems a little low to be giving insulin, imo. I'm no expert, but it looks to me like she dropped way too low after being given the shot and her body went really high to make up for it.

 

That's why the doctor at the hospital recommended to stop giving my cat insulin with the last curve I did. Now that I have stopped it seems to be out of control. On top of the stress of traveling and not being home. I used to check my cat's blood every day. The doctor's advised against that and recommended curves every so often. Then she directs what should be done next.

This is the schedule I had been doing after she was hospitalized (October 2018 - January 2019)

In the Morning = 1 unit of insulin w/ breakfast
In the Evening = 1 unit of insulin w/ dinner

(12 hour apart meals)

 

Definitely test before each shot to see if it's necessary.

And maybe she should be eating smaller meals throughout the day?

 

@Calicos are Best
First of all welcome to FDMB. I'm so sorry to hear that your kitty is not well.

I agree with Giomax that it's concerning that your cat was given insulin at a reading of 66 and also the BG reading that evening of 42. 66 is too low on a pet meter and 42 is definitely too low no matter what meter you are using. If that is the case, that may be part of the reason the diabetes is difficult to control. That said, in order to be of more help on the diabetes issue, please let us know what insulin you are giving, and what glucometer you are using to do home testing.

It would be helpful if you could set up a signature including your kitty's name, age, sex, date of diagnosis, insulin, glucometer used, current diet and any other health issues (i.e. pancreatitis). You can also include a general location (so any supply suggestions can be pertinent to you) and if you'd like to share your name or how you would like to be addressed. Setting up a signature will give those offering assistance the info they need and will keep us from asking you the same questions over and over.

To set up a signature, hove your mouse over your user name in the upper right corner. Select signature from the left side of the menu that pops up. This opens a text box where you type in the information you wish to share. Once you are happy with your signature, scroll down and click on the Save Changes button. If you need any help, let us know.

For the pancreatitis, sometimes a low to moderate fat diet is suggested but I think this is largely dependent on the cat. Any dry food the vet prescribes is too high in carbs for a diabetic (Glycobalance dry and Hills ID dry and wet are definitely too high in carbs) and contain ingredients less than ideal. There are many food options out there that are low in carbs (under 10%) and Fancy Feast Classics (pates in Canada) are one of the favourites amongst our members here. I see no particular reason why FF would not be suitable but I have no experience with pancreatitis.
Did the vet ever mention DKA (Diabetic ketoacidosis) when your cat was hospitalized in Oct/18 or in Jan/19?

I know the vet told you not to test your cat, but curves while giving you a snapshot of one day of BG readings, do not IMHO give you enough data to make decisions about dosing. If kitty is having a particularly good or bad day BG wise, your view of kitty's insulin needs can be incorrect leading to too much or too little insulin being given. Testing daily before giving insulin to ensure it is safe to do so, and at least once each 12 hour cycle will give you a much better idea of how kitty's BG is being controlled and allow you to make safe choices about dosing and keep your kitty safe.

If you do a search for pancreatitis, you will likely find more information on diet choices.

 

Thank you so much for the warm welcome and all the info! I just created a signature. Thank you for the step by step instructions! I don't know how to navigate on here so well. Yes I do believe when my cat was hospitalized they did mention Diabetic Ketoacidosis in October 2018. I am supposed to pick her up tonight and I can mention if they think that could be going on now.

I used to be more strict and would check daily on my meter, but my vet makes me feel like I am doing it compulsively and that most people do not do this. They said most people bring in their cats to do blood curves/bloodwork/meter check, etc.

I was definitely someone who would check and give insulin according to the number on the meter, but again my vet told me not to do that.

I agree about dry foods! I think that I want to STAY AWAY from them. I haven't given my cat Lily any dry since she was first diagnosed in 2016.

Does anyone have any opinions about these foods?

Weruva
Tiki
Wellness
Evo
Life's Abundance "Instinctive Choice"

-------> Thank you for the suggestion about smaller meals throughout the day, Giomax! That is something I can try. Only issue with that being if it is a day I am not home all day.

Here is my signature information:

Cat: Lily, 7 yrs 11 months, female, 12/17/16 diagnosed w/ Diabetes, Insulin: Lantus, Meter: AlphaTRAK 2, Current diet: Kitten Fancy Feast Classic diet (chicken, turkey, tuna, salmon) Other health issues: Pancreatitis, Bladder infection

 

When I had that nice long chat with my vet yesterday he recommended Glycobalance or RC for diabetes. I told him I wanted to stick with all canned to avoid the carbs, and he said that both prescription diets come in a canned or a dry variety. I asked him what the difference was between the prescription canned diets and the Fancy Feast canned diet. He looked up the nutrition information on both and ended up realizing that there was little to no difference between the prescription diets and the canned FF. He said I'm fine sticking with the FF.

 

This is a very common opinion amongst vets however, if you were to ask them if they would give insulin to a baby without first checking to see if it was safe to do so, my bet is they'd agree that at a very minimum, testing before giving insulin is imperative. And the only way to know how well the insulin is working is to get tests over time during the middle part of the cycles. No 2 days are identical and testing is the only way you will ever know if the current dose of insulin is bringing BG down to desirable range or if it's causing BG to drop too much or not enough. It appears the 1u dose is too high and testing daily would have given you that information sooner than periodic curves.

Given you are using a pet meter and that Lily's BG went very low on the 3rd of January before both her AM and PM shots, I would suggest you start testing again before every shot and until you have more data, I'd suggest no shot unless her BG is at least 200. I'd also reduce the dose to 0.75u and monitor Lily to see how low that dose takes her by getting some mid cycle tests.

I am not trying to alarm you but the cycle you had during the curve on the 3rd of January could have been catastrophic. The higher BG readings between 10:25 and 4:25 are indicative of her defense system going into action and pumping out stored glucose to keep her safe and fight the insulin activity. The fact that she again dropped to 68 at 6:25 and then to 42 at 8:11 indicates the 1u dose is too high and Lily's glucose stores may be getting depleted as normally a bounce from a low number would last longer than a few hours. Thankfully you were there to monitor her but if she had been alone and not had access to food, she could have gone hypo which can be fatal if not dealt with quickly.

We have a colour coded spreadsheet available here for tracking Lily's BG readings that gives you a very visual way of tracking how Lily is doing. The links below given instructions on how to set up a spreadsheet and how to use it. It's very easy to use and will automatically colour code the readings you enter. SPREADSHEET SETUP INSTRUCTIONS and HOW TO USE THE SPREADSHEET. If you need help setting up the spreadsheet, just ask as we have folks here who can do it for you.

There are different varieties of foods under the brand names you have listed and they do have some foods that are just fine for Lily but without more specifics, it's difficult to say for sure. There are several food lists available depending on your location. HERE is a link to the available lists. Dr. Pierson's lists tend to be the main lists used here but is based on foods available in the US.

I hope you got to bring Lily home last night and she is doing better. Please keep us posted!

 

Thank you so much for this information MrWorfman's Mom!!!! This information was very helpful for sharing Lily's BG numbers. I saw it first thing in the morning! Yes Lily got to come home last night! Very happy about that. Still concerned about what to do on the diet. The Hospital only gave me enough food for 2 days. They advised to feed her the canned Hill's id Digestive Care OR the Science Diet sensitive stomach and skin.

Lily stills seems fragile and I am very scared she may have to go back to the animal hospital. I will try my best to keep her better. I am supposed to give her 1 ml of amoxi drops every 12 hrs and give her insulin as needed when I check with the meter before meals. I spent most of the day trying to fill in those spreadsheets! I made two and put them in my signature to share with anyone who can help. I didn't put all the information for checking BG #s that I have. I tried to shorten the records and just show glimpses. This really takes a long time to put together. I am glad I did though!

Lily's #s Before Hospital Oct 2018 | Lily's #s Oct 2018 - Jan 2019

 

Great job getting all that info into the spreadsheet. I know it's a PIA to get historical data input but that gives you lots of useful data and going forward it's very easy to use and with the colour coding you get a good visual perspective of how things are going.

Glad to hear you got Lily home but it sounds like she still needs some time to recover. Did the vet say exactly what they think the problem is? What was the Amoxicillin prescribed for? Is Lily eating on her own or does she need to be persuaded?

I suggested dropping the dose to 0.75u but I see Lily is eating the Hill's ID which is almost 25% carbs. With that high a carb load in the food, Lily may be OK on 1u but I would definitely monitor her to see how low that dose is taking her during each cycle. Since you only have a couple of days of the high carb food, and Lily was doing well on the FF Kitten food before, perhaps try adding that into the mix a bit. If Lily has an infection (assumed due to the amoxicillin) then her BG may start to lower on its own as the antibiotic starts to clear the infection so if you can get some BG tests randomly between +3 and +7 post shot over the next couple of days, it will give you a better idea of how Lily is processing the insulin. If you are working during the day, I'd definitely reduce the dose to 0.75u (you'll need to eyeball that dose on a syringe with half unit markings) and test when you can. It's also a good idea to take a reading before bed each night so that you get some night time data as many cats tend to go lower overnight than they do during the day.

In the next day or so, I think we should get you over onto the Lantus forum where there are lots of very experienced folks to help and help is usually always available there.

Keep the questions coming and we'll have you and Lily feeling much better in no time.

 

Lily had a bladder infection. The Dr. thinks that it happened because Lily's diabetes was out of control and probably the stress of traveling and being in a different home right now. Drove 14 hours to get down south. I'll be in my family's home for a little while. My mom is very sick and I want to spend as much time as I can with her.

So, yes the amoxi drops are for an infection! You are correcto mundo! I will be giving Lily 1 ml of the amoxicillin in the morning and night until the medicine is gone. There was sugar in her urine also. We didn't do a pancreatitis test as she had bloodwork done the day before the hospital at a vet. I asked if they could just treat her by keeping her hydrated. I asked them to use pain medicine to treat her too. No point in spending money for them to tell me it is pancreatitis again. I just assumed it was diabetes or pancreatitis, or both together. They helped me so much! I was able to get her eating again for a 5th of the cost!!!! The vets where I live charged me thousands in October and I am still paying it off. Thank God for compassionate people who can help you in a time of need and not break the bank!

I went to some local pet stores today! I got some Weruva cans of wet food. I had to try the cans because I would like to order on Chewy. No sense in ordering a whole pack of food until you are certain your cat likes the food. I figure it would be nice to try and see if Lily might like a new diet. If the Kitten fancy feast makes it difficult to juggle diabetes and pancreatitis in a cat, Maybe if I find the right brand that will work better. I have some cans of Wellness cat food, science diet, and authority.

I've gone from Purina Hairball formula dry & Fancy Feast together ----> Fancy Feast alone ----> Hill's md diet glucose management ---> Kitten Fancy Feast

Right now while Lily is recovering I am trying to do Hill's id digestive care. She doesn't really like it though. I mixed it with kitten fancy feast this morning and she picked at it. She can tell the Hill's id was in there. I just gave her a small amount kitten fancy feast alone on the side of some hill's urgent care ad and she ate a couple bites and started hiding again. Today I gave her 100 cc of fluid before I went out to get more food. When I came back she was much perkier! I had been gone for hours.

Yesterday Lily's BG was:
1/20/19 - 8:39 AM = 310, gave 1 unit of insulin, 1/2 can Hill's id, she picked and ate most of it, NOT ALL.
1/20/19 - 1:32 PM = 337
1/20/19 - 8:45 PM = 279, only gave her 0.5 unit of insulin as she was picking at her food, didn't want her to not have insulin, and didn't want to give her too much.

1/21/19 - 8:53 AM = 453, gave 1 unit, took a FF can and put 1/2 Hill's id and 1/2 FF, mixed them and Lily did not like, brought out FF unmixed and Hill's ad and Lily picked at the food
1/21/19 - 12:42 PM = 456, gave Lily 100 cc subq's, she was dehyrated
1/21/19 - 4:32PM = 373, brought out some FF unmixed and Hill's ad, Lily finished that food from the morning. Lily is perkier!!!

I will have to play with the dosages of Lantus like you said! Once Lily is eating more regularly it should be much easier! The Lantus forums should be very helpful. Thank you for your continuous help and encouragement! Makes this process much easier when you have people on here who are so knowledgeable. You guys give way better advice than the vets or animal hospitals!

 

So glad to hear Lily ate on her own and is perkier now. I can "hear" that you are feeling better too! It's so hard to see them under the weather and not know what to do to help them. Bladder infections are a common problem for diabetics due to the sugar in their urine when unregulated. I'm sure as the infection clears, Lily will continue to improve. Just a caution to make diet changes slowly to avoid any further upset.

If you want/need assistance with dosing, then the Lantus forum would be the best place to continue from here. If you have questions about diet for example or other more general topics, the folks there may be able to help or you can post here in Health to get a broader audience for your query. I'll be keeping an eye out for you and Lily in the days to come. When you post over in Lantus, it would be a good idea to add a link to this post in your new Lantus post so folks can get some history and background to understand what has been going on with Lily. To do that, simply copy the URL from this page, select the link in the menu bar at the top of the message text box that looks like the link of a chain , paste the link into the field that pops up and click on insert.

 

Good advice not to change the diet abruptly. I didn't know that bladder infections were common. Very interesting. I wonder if Lily had any in the past that I wasn't aware of? I will have to post more on the other forums as more questions come up. I know there will be on going challenges, as I see everyone on here faces some.

Thank you for looking out for Lily & I!!! We appreciate your help greatly. You are a very kind person. You must be a great Kitty Mom yourself! I have learned so much in the short time I have joined this Community.