Regulating Reegan

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Cobrakent, Feb 11, 2018.

  1. Cobrakent

    Cobrakent New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2018
    New to this in cats! Had a step daughter that was diabetic I helped raise so I know some. Going to the vet every Wednesday and testing at home every other day AM and PM. He’s now on two units AM and two units PM. Big running low to mid 300 AM and low 200 PM with Atk2. I’m guessing most people test from the ear. I just have a hard time so that’s why I only test twice a day every other day. Think maybe another.5 unit in the PM shot might bring down the AM numbers? Anyway glad for all the good advice.
     
  2. Smokey and Jessica

    Smokey and Jessica Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2018
    Hi! I’m new here too so I don’t have a lot of advice, but I can tell you one of the most common things I read is that you have to test during the day too and you can’t base a dose, or especially dose change, on just am and pm tests. I’m sure the more experienced people here will chime in and give you all the good advice soon!
     
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  3. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Welcome! :) If you're posting on this forum you must be using ProZinc, right?

    This gets expensive. If you can work on your testing skills and his cooperation it'll help you and him a lot.

    Congrats for testing at home! You have the basics under your belt and just need to refine the process. Here are some things that can help with testing:
    • warming the ear well: a lot of us use a "rice sock" - old, clean sock with about 1/2 cup uncooked rice in the toe, tied off and heated in the microwave until very warm but touchable (try it on yourself)
    • using thicker gauge lancets - 26 to 28 gauge work better than the finer 31+ gauge that come with many test kits
    • giving low carb treats like freeze dried meat - eg. Pure Bites - before and after each test
    • setting up a whole pleasant ritual around testing - same place, lots of positive attention, treats given liberally, etc.
    Any reading you've done here will tell you that we're big advocates of a structured testing routine to keep your kitty safe and to help assess a dose's effect. Here's the basic routine we recommend:
    1. test every day AM and PM before feeding and injecting (no food at least 2 hours before) to see if the planned dose is safe
    2. test at least once near mid cycle or at bedtime daily to see how low the BG goes
    3. do extra tests on days off to fill in the response picture
    4. if indicated by consistently high numbers on your SS, increase the dose by no more than 0.25 u at a time so you don't accidentally go right past a good dose
    5. post here for advice whenever you're confused or unsure of what to do.
    You'd be guessing at the effect without having test data to back up your decision, unfortunately. We also recommend increasing by no more than 0.25 u at a time (eyeballed on a syringe with half unit marks) so you don't zoom past a good dose. Cats can be extremely sensitive to very small dose changes even though vets advise 0.5 u or even 1 u dose changes.

    Here's my best advice:
    1. Work on your home testing skills so you can get the routine I described above up and running.
    2. Read about ProZinc and how to use it best: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...prozinc-pzi-insulin-for-diabetic-cats.164995/
    3. Set up the online Google sheets spreadsheet we use here and log all the data you have so far and what you get going forward. It's the first thing we want to see before giving dosing advice: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
    4. Consider switching your kitty to low carb wet food only if he eats any kibble at all, even prescription kibble for diabetic cats. Friskies and Fancy Feast pate versions are fine to feed and easier on your wallet.
    Another thing you can do to help us advise is to set up your signature text (the light grey text under a post) with the following info:
    • your kitty's name, age and date of diagnosis
    • the insulin you use
    • the glucose meter you use
    • what you feed him
    • any other health issues/meds he has.
    To set this up, click on your name at the top right of the page, click on "signature" in the drop down menu and fill in the text box that appears.
     
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  4. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Hi Cobrakent, and welcome! It is a lot to get used to at first, and can be a process to get into the routine, but I'm sure having a background in how diabetes works in humans will help.

    Great job getting started on home testing! Can you tell us a little more about the trouble you're having? We have all kinds of tips and tricks to help you and your sugar cat to get into the routine.

    I would not recommend changing dose at this time simply because we can't be sure how the insulin is impacting your cat while at home. Numbers that are done in the vets office are often stress inflated, and if we base dosing on that, you can end up giving too much insulin and sending your cat into hypoglycemia.

    We all use a cool color coded spreadsheet to keep track of our data, and it really helps in finding patterns and figuring out when a dose needs to go up or down. If you have a Google account (gmail), you can get it set up and linked quickly. If you have any trouble with it, post here and ask for help and we can have someone get it going for you.

    Here is the link: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

    At the top of the Prozinc forum, there are some threads labeled with a yellow "sticky" icon. Read through these and make a note of whatever questions you have, and then ask away! It gives a base understanding of how all of this works, and then we can help with the fine tuning and understanding the ins and outs of it all.

    Here is a link to the first one to get you started: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...prozinc-pzi-insulin-for-diabetic-cats.164995/

    We're all here to help, so let us know what you need!
     
  5. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    LOL....oops, cross posted with Kris! :D
     
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  6. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    We're good at that, aren't we! :smuggrin:
     
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  7. Cobrakent

    Cobrakent New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2018
    Thanks for the advice! Well he has been running in the low 200’s in the PM tests for awhile now. But tonight is 507:(! Our U40 needles don’t have 1/2 unit marks. But I can get close. Me and him are doing better with the testing. He was purring right up until I poked him. I can test more, just have seen what it does to little fingers over 16 years on my step daughter and she had ten to poke ! Only got two ears :nailbiting:! If I can get him closer to the 200’s on a regular basis I will be more app to test more. Yes we are using Prozinc. Need to look for the low carb treats, Pure Bites if there is others let me know please. Would like to keep him around a few more years!!
     
  8. Cobrakent

    Cobrakent New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2018
    Oh forgot the food. Vet put him on Hills m/d dry and wet. But he was not eating much at all and losing weight. Then I found this site. So now on the Fancy Feast diet for both cats..... they were already getting the ones in gravy for a treat before the diagnosis. But now just the pates, can’t do the beef ones though, he pukes every time. He always did if we gave him to much steak treats before this too. Just been giving them 3oz AM and 3oz PM each. But I think he is still losing weight. But more food means more glucose!! Madison, his sister , seem to be fine with 6oz a day. The cans say 3oz for every 2 1/2 lb of cat. But I think that’s way too much.
     
  9. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    So the thing with the 507 is that it can indicate that he went hypoglycemic during the cycle. The liver then dumps a bunch of glucose to bring the number back into safe ranges which can result in unusually high numbers. We call it a bounce. Of course, it can also be an indication that there isn't enough insulin. So that's why we ask for the mid-cycle numbers. It's the only way to tell if he's getting too much, too little, or the right amount of insulin.

    As for the ears, it's only two ears, but you can rotate the location. I test both the front edge and back edge of both ears, so that's 4, and even within a given side, I rotate between top, middle, and bottom of the "sweet spot."

    Food: how is Reegan's weight? If he's underweight, I would recommend feeding him as much as he wants right now. He likely will be asking for more food than normal because unregulated blood glucose means that they can't use the nutrients from the food as efficiently as a healthy cat - so they are literally starving, not just being dramatic or demanding as cats can be sometimes ;) - he really does need more food than normal. Of course if he's overweight, that's a different story. You might also consider spreading the food out during the day if your schedule allows. Diabetic cats (similar to people) benefit from having multiple snacks during the day to help them keep a steadier BG level instead of dramatic dives and spikes in numbers.

    Many cats will reach regulation better if they get the food they need during the process. If he doesn't get enough calories for his needs right now, you increase the risk of developing ketones which can be very dangerous very quickly in a cat.

    Just a second and I'll make another post with some other treat options...
     
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  10. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Oops. and here is a picture of the "sweet spot"

    upload_2018-2-11_16-10-10.png
     
  11. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Bonito flakes – these are sold in some grocery stores as a human food. They are tissue-paper thin bits of fish and are easy to sprinkle on food to get a kitty to eat. They last forever and are the cheapest option.

    https://www.amazon.com/Kaneso-Tokuy...&qid=1516455184&sr=8-3&keywords=bonito flakes

    The next two are expensive, but they are good quality and they are more what you would consider a typical treat – something your kitty can actually bite into:

    https://www.amazon.com/CATMANDOO-Fr...atcorr&keywords=freeze dried salmon cat treat

    https://www.amazon.com/CATMANDOO-Dr...r=1-6&keywords=freeze dried chicken cat treat

    These are probably my personal favorites as they look like what they are. Sometime a little too much so though in the case of the chicken hearts. It is an actual dried heart. I usually have to cut them into a couple of pieces since they are a little bit big and hard for the cats to bite into on their own. They also have little minnows that are the whole fish. And a variety of other options. Often the dog treats are a bit cheaper, and since it’s a whole, dried protein, it doesn’t make any difference if you buy the cat or the dog versions.

    https://www.amazon.com/Essentials-F...05&sr=1-4&keywords=vital essential cat treats
     
  12. Cobrakent

    Cobrakent New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2018
    Thanks again for the info. I think he was 12.2lb at the vet a week ago. But 14.2 about 4 weeks ago when diagnosed. I don’t think he went low during the day but I guess he could have. I was at work. But on my days off he never acts like he is low. He is leash trained, well he walks me!!, and ready to go for a walk any time I get up and move around. Even if he is napping. Lol! Money is not really an issue. It’s our kids we are taking care of, at least to us! I think the biggest thing that bothers me is now that he’s on all wet food both cats drink almost no water. But they are still urinating so I guess they are ok!!
     

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