Salem #2

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by AmyB, Aug 16, 2019.

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  1. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Well are you jumping up and down for joy? I am! I thought Salem looked to be on a mission and today seems to suggest he is. Fingers crossed tomorrow is another skipped shot for all the right reasons. :joyful:
     
  2. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    I would say I'm more cautiously optimistic lol. :cat: I'm really hoping it will be! He's doing so much better than I ever expected so I'm just taking it one day at a time and letting him do what he's doing.
     
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  3. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Ok I understand the "cautiously optimistic" but it's still great progress. Celebrate.....got any chocolate?!!
     
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  4. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    I do! I will eat some in celebration lol (even though I eat chocolate all time in general, it's a weakness).
     
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  5. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    He shot up to 159 this morning. :( I wouldn’t think he would be bouncing at all? So I’m not sure what to think. I’m going to just give the .1 again and see how he does just in case.
     
  6. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    My guess is that he still needs that little teensy dose to keep him in good range and that AMPS is just a product of the missed dose last night. He's so close so just hold the course for now. :)
     
  7. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    Yeah that’s the plan. I double tested against the Relion and he was 111 on it. So maybe the AT2 was running high. I need to find somewhere to order a small amount of syringes bc I’m running low and I don’t want to buy from the vet because they sell like 100 of them at a time and I don’t want that many.
     
  8. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Can you buy syringes without a script in Tx? I think you can but there may be a limit on them without a script. Some states limit it to 10 syringes, but a trip to a couple of pharmacies would get you through another week and half roughly if that's the case.
     
  9. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    I think so? I don’t need very many at a time (I hope) so I’m just going to try and get a few. I guess I’ll try and get some U100’s so I can more accurately shoot the lower dose.
     
  10. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    You'll have to get U100's because U40s are strictly veterinary use and aren't available at local retailers.
     
  11. CandyH & Catcat

    CandyH & Catcat Well-Known Member

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    Walmart's .3 U-100 syringes have half unit markings -- those are about as cheap as you can get, approx $12 plus tax if required

    also see the PM I sent you
     
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  12. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    An update: I tested Salem on the Relion at +6 and he was at 66 down from 111 this morning so at least he’s dropping. I’ll see what he is tonight. I’m almost out of AT2 strips again and of course amazon can’t have them here until Friday.
     
  13. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Just switch over to the Relion for now. Good you did the test with the Relion this AM. Liking that 66. :D
     
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  14. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    Here’s to hoping he’s not super high tonight. I think I’m going to try and get some U100’s tomorrow because eyeballing the .1 makes me nervous. I’m trying to make it the same every time but it’s difficult when it’s such a small dose.
     
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  15. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I used calipers and a light table when I started getting to those teensy dose. They are indeed a PIA.
     
  16. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    Welp I just tested on the Relion and he's at 53. Not sure what to do honestly. Maybe this morning was some kind of bounce or something?
     
  17. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    No panic! He's at about +11 now right? While the duration of ProZinc can be as much as 14 hours, it's unlikely Salem is going to go hypo. Give him a bit of LC food and he'll be fine. Obviously you won't be giving him any insulin tonight. I'm personally loving this..... YEAH for Salem and you Amy, You've have done wonders with him. :joyful:
     
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  18. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    No I'm not worried lol. He just got fed so hopefully he'll eat a bit. He's been kind of running around being excited which is fun. He's really keeping me on my toes! Honestly I couldn't have done all this without your help and this site. I'm just so glad I educated myself on all of this but I can't imagine having done anything else with him. My cats are my babies lol.
     
  19. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I know that feeling all too well! They are remarkable creatures...so mysterious and fun!

    You obviously jumped into this with both feet and it's paid off in spades. I'm so very happy for you. I know how I felt when my girl was doing so well.
     
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  20. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    Yeah he's doing so well, I just hope this continues. I'm scared he's going to run high again tonight but we'll see I guess.
     
  21. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Amy, he has been progressively going lower and lower and it may be that the dental helped him turn the corner. I doubt he's going to suddenly go high.... He may go up a bit but he won't go up much. I really do think he is on mission and is very close to completing it. :cool:
     
  22. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    I hope so! I just worry I'm not helping with the occasional giving insulin but his numbers are so low I can't give it all the time. I also think he's lost a little bit of weight which will also help.
     
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  23. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Amy, insulin is a hormone Salem is producing himself. You have been supplementing while his pancreas has been on hiatus and not working up to snuff. Not giving it when numbers are low is the only thing you can do......it means his body is taking care of business and he doesn't need the additional supply. You are doing exactly what you should be doing.
     
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  24. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    Yeah, that makes sense. I guess I still get confused on how exactly it works and I just don't want to create some kind of imbalance? I should probably read up some on insulin. I know human diabetics can have different amounts but the vet kept talking about how you can't do that with cats. Either way, I'm not giving it when he's low so here's to hoping he'll stay low.
     
  25. (GA) Gypsy's Parent

    (GA) Gypsy's Parent Member

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    If you give insulin when Salem's body is able to make enough to function properly, you *would* be creating an imbalance. My kitty appears to be in remission with just a change in diet. I'm very excited to see another kitty show remarkable progress to green! The folks here have made that possible.
     
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  26. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    Okay just tested using the Relion and he's at 80. I tested at +3 last night after no shot and he was at 63. I'm concerned his pancreas just isn't working enough. Should I go ahead and give the .1 today?
     
  27. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    Just tested again and he’s at 76 on the Relion so I’m just going to hold off and see what he does today. He might go high but I can deal with that if it happens.
     
  28. (GA) Gypsy's Parent

    (GA) Gypsy's Parent Member

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    I think 80 is way low to be shooting. Salem might go too low and then you worry about hypoglycemia, which is much worse than a bit higher insulin. When you are dealing with numbers in yellow and pink, you are less likely to cause hypo with insulin. But when you start getting into blues, you need to have some curves to know that Salem isn't going to go too low. I liked the phrase I saw "It's OK to go too high, but never a minute too low".
     
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  29. CandyH & Catcat

    CandyH & Catcat Well-Known Member

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    it gets easier once you have enough data to know how Salem reacts to food and to insulin doses .. at this point I'm guessing his pancreas is "trying it out" so encourage it by skipping doses when it looks like he can manage on his own
     
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  30. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    Yeah I'm still not sure how he's reacting to the food? I'm worried he's not processing it on his own, but he doesn't seem to go up much from eating so who knows. He just kind of slowly gets higher.
     
  31. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Amy, Salem is in totally normal range. No insulin should be given at those low numbers because he just doesn't need it. He IS producing his own and using it well or he wouldn't be in such good numbers.

    With some longer lasting insulins you can shoot those low numbers because those insulins are better at holding BG than pulling it down. ProZinc while an excellent insulin for cats, is still an In & Out insulin that works a bit quicker and can drop BG a bit swiftly. Giving insulin when Salem is holding those great numbers without it, would not be safe. IF his numbers increase then you can re-visit the situation but he's staying in dark green which is perfect. It doesn't get better than this! Enjoy, celebrate.....he looks terrific.

    For some reason I did not get alerts for your recent posts. HMMM? If you have questions, please tag me so hopefully I get the alert. Thx.
     
  32. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    After no insulin this morning he's sitting at 59 at +6 :D I'm going to keep not giving insulin as long as he doesn't go up and see what happens.
     
  33. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    PS tonight is 60 on the Relion so he’s not getting anything. :)
     
  34. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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  35. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    So at this point should I start considering this an OTJ trial? My other concern is I'm still planning to take them out of town with me this weekend and I don't know if the stress will raise his BG at all. They're pretty used to traveling since I've taken them both on trips since they were kittens but it's still a bit stressful I'm sure.
     
  36. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Change can definitely elevate BG slightly for a period of time like in the car. Bet if you checked Nyx before and during the trip, his BG would be up too. If you know there is a stress factor and BG comes back down to those beautiful numbers then you can ignore it. It's not like that stress is going to knock a cat in remission out of it. That is temporary normal stress. An infection on the other hand is affecting the body chemistry in many different ways and can knock a cat out of remission....big difference.

    I think I'd give it a couple more days before starting a trial to make sure you continue to get green pre-shots. The one reading that makes me say that is the AT2 159/Relion 111 AMPS on the 28th. That is a bit high on the AT2 for an OTJ trial. The very odd very low blue on the Relion is fine but if the pre-shots are still a bit high, you may need to do the mini dosing a bit longer. See how he does over the weekend. Take your supplies with you to head off MURPHY. If you continue to get green pre-shots for the next few days, you can include today in the OTJ trial count. If you get blues and aren't sure if it's stress or not, better to start the count when things are back to normal. You want a strong remission that's going to last.

    If you do get a blue pre-shot this weekend it may be from stress so check him again once the stressful stuff is over and he's had some time to cool his jets.
     
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  37. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    So he’s at 78 this morning so I’m going to continue with the no shot. It’s a little higher than I’d like but I think he comes down a bit after eating so I’ll check this afternoon.
     
  38. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    78 is a perfectly good BG. It's not high at all. BG goes up and down and we never know what our diabetic cats norms were before their diagnosis. He may just be up a teensy bit because he wants his breakfast. ;)
     
  39. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    They’re only slightly spoiled. :cat: So if he runs a little higher this weekend due to stress should I still give any insulin? I’m nervous to do that bc he could drop down.
     

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  40. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    UMMMMM! Slightly spoiled you say? Looks a bit more than "slightly" to me. :p They are so gorgeous. Saw some absolutely beautiful little black kittens last night at PetSmart and wanted to bring them home so bad. But I don't have room for 4 more (not enough laps and hands to go around) and I couldn't bear to split them up the way they were cuddling with each other. Getting too old for kittens anyway. My next adoption will be a senior kitty in need of a good home with lots of TLC, happy to lounge the time away getting snuggles and scritches and purring in return. :woot:

    I would not jump back onto the insulin unless numbers increase substantially like over 120 for an extended period of time without dropping. Me thinks you are worrying far too much. Salem will be just fine and he'll do his Momma proud this weekend. ;)
     
  41. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    So I feel as though either my AT2 runs high or the Relion on runs low. I got more strips for the Alphatrak and he's sitting at 100 on that and 60 on the Relion meter. Obviously I've been using the Relion the past few days and he's been following the same pattern of numbers so maybe he just runs a little high? I might test Nyx against the AT2 too to see. The one time I tested him in the middle of the day he was at 95 so maybe it's just the meter?
     
  42. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Amy there is nothing wrong with either meter. That difference is very similar to what I get with my Freestyle human meter and my AT2 sometimes. I've also had them read very close to one another. Salem is just fine and in good numbers. Remember at any time one meter could reading high while the other reading low within the variance allowance for all meters which can make the difference look larger than it really is.
     
  43. CandyH & Catcat

    CandyH & Catcat Well-Known Member

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    those two meters will rarely agree -- they will each give you the same shape of "curve" but because of the way they check the blood, there will be a difference and the ReliOn will almost always give you a lower number -- but then what "normal value" for a cat is, is DIFFERENT for those two meters, actually different between one marketed "for animals" and one primarily sold to humans -- it's not apples and oranges, more like oranges and tangelos ... similar but not the same

    it's confusing for us, and probably for you too, to go back and forth between the two types; unless your vet REQUIRES tests with the AlphaTrak, my opinion is, stick with the ReliOn, use the ReliOn scale of what is good BG -- and partly because the procedures we follow here were all worked out using human meters
     
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  44. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    Yeah I'm trying to look more at the overall pattern of what his BG is doing? As long as he's staying about the same on both meters I'm not going to be too concerned.
     
  45. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    If you graphed the two sets of readings for an entire cycle curve testing every 2 hours the curve would look very very similar for both meters with the pet meter curve being higher overall. It has to do with blood composition and the algorithms in the meters that calculate the plasma BG.
     
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  46. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    So PS this morning was 73/121 which I’m not going to worry about bc it’s consistent with the last few days. Should I even bring the insulin with me? I’ll be gone until Monday night and even if he goes up I didn’t want to give any since it would likely be from stress.
     
  47. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I think the way he is going, you're fine to leave the insulin home and just take his testing kit. Have a great weekend away with the fur kids. :D
     
  48. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    So I haven't been on in the past two days, mainly bc I haven't been testing him since he was so stressed to be somewhere new. I managed to get one yesterday afternoon at about +3 and he was 65 on the Relion so I figured he was probably fine. PS tonight was 74 on the Relion/122 on the AT2. He might still be slightly elevated from the car ride home since he did not enjoy that. He had fun getting to explore a new house though and they were okay for most of the trip but I'm glad to be back home!
     
  49. CandyH & Catcat

    CandyH & Catcat Well-Known Member

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    no cat is normal, but he's pushing it:D:D:D -- LOL
     
  50. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    He had a fun time exploring underneath my parent's old house for about 10 minutes- stressing me out in the process. :D:D I'm going to go pick up some Revolution just to be safe bc who knows what critters were under there.
     
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  51. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Glad to hear your weekend went OK and Salem had some extra fun even though it wasn't fun for you! Sounds like BG is holding well. YEAH! :D
     
  52. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    Well, bad news, Salem went up this morning to 119 on the Relion and 189 on the AT2. He was doing so good so idk what happened. Should I give a .1 shot? He hasn't had any insulin in almost a week so I don't know how it'll affect him.
    @MrWorfMen's Mom
     
  53. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    No. Can you check him again about 3 hours after his morning meal? See if BG has come down. You can get blips like that periodically and it could just be he saw/heard something that spurred him into "hunt" mode before you tested.
     
  54. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    Yes, I will do that! He just ate so I'll test again in 3 hours.
     
  55. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    Well it must have been something weird because he’s dropped to 53/93 at +3. Food seems to bring him down pretty significantly. I’m also trying to give them smaller meals throughout the day to help with that.
     
  56. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I knew he wouldn't let you down! :cool:
     
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  57. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    PS tonight was 62 on the ReliOn. He was being difficult and I couldn't get more blood for the AT2. I'm happy with the 62 though.
     
  58. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    He’s a bit higher than I would like this morning at 143/82. Food should bring him down at least. I’m more concerned about the fact that they somehow managed to get fleas over the weekend so I’m picking up medicine today to get rid of them. I wonder if the scratching and itching is aggravating him.
     
  59. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Those numbers are still fine and I'm sure the itching could aggravate them enough to elevate BG. Just do the food check again. I'm sure he's just fine.
     
  60. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    Well I can’t check today bc I’ll be at work all day but I’ll check him tonight after I give food. He’ll be fine while I’m gone at least.
     
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  61. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    PMPS is 70/119. He's also mad at me for putting flea medicine on the back of his neck. :rolleyes:
     
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  62. CandyH & Catcat

    CandyH & Catcat Well-Known Member

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    Revolution? yeah, for a little while they are uncomfortable, but it's SO NICE to have them protected
     
  63. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    It's actually something called Bravecto? It's the same thing but it's one dose that protects them for three months instead of three separate doses. We think my aunt's dog gave the cats fleas this weekend which I'm mad about but hopefully I can get rid of them fast.
     
  64. Diane Tyler's Mom

    Diane Tyler's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Poor kitties, does the medicine kill the fleas that are on them. Do you have to clrean their bedding or anything like that
     
  65. CandyH & Catcat

    CandyH & Catcat Well-Known Member

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    yeah, must wash everything he touches with hot water, put in dryer or outside on clothesline in the sun

    not a bad idea to dust him (gently with a mitten) with food grade diatomaceous earth, to kill the live ones which may not immediately die from the Bravecto; horrid little things will eat up your ankles otherwise
     
  66. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    Yeah I’ve been washing everything and I vacuumed and cleaned a bunch. They’ve had fleas before and I got rid of them so hopefully there aren’t that many of them this time. They should all die from biting them now.
     
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  67. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    Ugh I feel so bad for him he keeps scratching everywhere and I can't tell if it's from the fleas or if the medicine is bothering him. His skin doesn't look red so maybe it's just the fleas.
     
  68. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Probably the fleas. Annoying little monsters. What about Nyx? Is he scratching too?
     
  69. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    Yeah he’s scratching some too but not as much as Salem. I have to take Nyx to the vet in the morning because they wouldn’t give me medication for him without seeing him. But I need to get this taken care of.
     
  70. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    What???? The vet gave you flea meds for Salem but not for Nyx. That sounds like a money grab to me. Of course you'd need to treat both cats. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
  71. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    Well they don’t want to give it until he’s had his yearly exam which I was meaning to do anyways but still. I’m probably going to try and find a new vet after this which is annoying but still.
     
  72. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Ok. I suppose that makes sense. Poor Nyx if you couldn't take him right away. :blackeye:
     
  73. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    Yeah there’s no point in giving one cat medicine and not the other so I’m taking him first thing in the morning. Which means I’m sacrificing my own sleep but oh well. :arghh:
     
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  74. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    PS today on the Relion was 75. I didn’t test more because Salem is Not Happy today. I don’t know if the medicine is bothering him or what but he’s been hissing at nyx since I got home from the vet. Maybe nyx smells like other animals? Hopefully he’s just throwing a tantrum and he’ll calm down.
     
  75. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    Tonight's PS was 98 on the AT2 and 59 on the Relion so he's still holding steady aside from that one high reading the other day. He's officially been without insulin for just over a week now and while I wish he was a little lower, I also don't know what his "normal" is so as long as he's mostly below 100 and acting fine I'm not going to worry? I just want to keep track of the patterns right now and make sure he's not steadily going up or anything.

    Since he's so young are there things I should be looking out for as far as keeping him OTJ? Obviously dental is one and hopefully an annual exam is enough for keeping up with that, plus me just monitoring.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019
  76. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Salem is looking great. You can get the odd higher reading for all sorts of reasons. You never know if Salem just saw a bird, was hunting a fly, had a dream about chasing a squirrel...cat stuff. They go into hunt mode and their BG elevates so a lot of stuff can set them off. Checking +3/4 post meal for lowered BG if you get a higher than desired reading will tell you if pancreas is still working.

    There is nothing special to do other than continuing with low carb diet, checking BG at least monthly and as you mentioned, yrly checkup and making sure dental checks are done. If Salem seems off for any reason, get him to the vet sooner rather than later because infections can knock them out of remission so better to get them checked early. Otherwise, just treat him as you do Nyx.
     
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  77. (GA) Gypsy's Parent

    (GA) Gypsy's Parent Member

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    I'm worried about Gypsy losing weight, so when I am home, I give her more food later in the morning. When this happens, her BG seems to be higher in the PM. I guess the increased BG isn't surprising with extra meals. Salem is looking really good!
     
  78. AmyB

    AmyB Member

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    I have the opposite problem, I need my cats to lose weight lol. I give them the same amount at mealtimes but for whatever reason he runs a bit higher in the morning. It's consistent and he always drops during the day//night so I'm not worried. It must just be his natural levels or something. He's been sticking under 100 on the Relion for the past few days.
     
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  79. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Amy, can I ask you to start a new post in the ProZinc forum the next time you post and tag me. This one is getting incredibly long and we really should move this over to ProZinc forum so we can show Salem off to others. ;):p
     
    Jill & Alex (GA) likes this.
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