Samson does not seem to be responding to PZI

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by SamsonsMom, Jun 27, 2017.

  1. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Hi all, my cat has been on PZI for nearly two months now but his BG numbers are not looking very good. I started him at 1 unit, increased to 1.5, and finally this past week increased to 2 but he still rarely drops into yellow numbers. In his appearance and behavior, he seems somewhat better: his oily, dandruffy fur is back to normal, and some hair loss that occurred on his hind legs (which is what led me to bring him to the vet and get the diabetes diagnosis in the first place) is growing back in, and he seems more playful and active than he had been pre-insulin. Still, I don't understand why his BG hasn't dropped more. He eats pure protein (either raw meat or limited-ingredient wet cat food, duck flavor) so it's not his diet. Can someone talk a look at his chart and help?? Thanks :D
     
  2. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    I know this is all feels like a lot sometimes, but if you want him to make progress, it requires regular testing, consistent shot times, and dose adjustments. Along with the great things you're already doing with food choices and monitoring other health factors.

    If you'd like to see him make some progress, I'm sure we'd all be happy to help you! But we need a bit more data. Most of the time you get pre-shot tests, which is great. However, the dose is determined by knowing the mid-cycle numbers as well, and there aren't a lot of those to work off of.

    Do you work outside the home? If so, what is your shot time AM/PM, when do you leave for work, and when do you go to bed? We can help you structure a bit more testing, and then hopefully figure out how to help Samson make some progress.
     
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  3. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    The short answer is that you haven't found his "good dose range" yet. He's given you the odd blue and one green. That's typical of a kitty who isn't regulated yet: their responses can be a little erratic. I agree with what Djamila has said about the need for more data. We all know how demanding this is but it's the best way to move Samson forward. We can help! :)
     
  4. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Hi guys, thanks for your responses! I work at home, so I can try to be more diligent about getting a mid-cycle test. Is that the most important piece of data that's missing?

    As for other q's: I dose on a regular schedule, typically 9 am/9 pm.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2017
  5. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    If you can make a point of grabbing two tests between +3 and +8 in the daytime and one before bed test for, say, a week, that would really help to build the picture. It'll also get you into a good testing groove that becomes part of your regular routine. You can start this while you're giving 2 u. My guess is that after about 3 days or so of doing this we'll know whether the 2 u dose is high enough. We might also get an idea of how bouncy he is - or not. That's the value in more data. :)
     
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  6. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Dosing for Prozinc is based on the difference between the pre-shot number and the lowest point in the cycle (nadir). So both of those numbers are important in order to know what to do. The problem is that they can vary from day to day, so multiple days of data are taken into consideration in order to decide what to do.
     
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  7. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    It's great that you work at home so you can get some more tests in! That makes life a little easier. As Kris said, grabbing some tests between +3 and +8 will help...and if you try getting them at different times of day for the next few days, it'll help build a really good picture of what's going on.
     
  8. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Thanks all!
     
  9. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Hi SamsonsMom and Samson!
    Just checking in on some members who haven't posted recently. Looks like the 2.5U is too high now, are you thinking of trying 2.0U for a while or even 1.75U? Update when you can :)
     
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  10. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Bumping this post looking for advice :) I have been doing my best with home testing but haven't been perfect. Samson's numbers still don't seem great after 3 mos. of PZI treatment. I am moving out of the country Sept. 1 and entrusting his care for one year to a friend who is subletting my place, so I need to find the correct dose for him before then - though I would have long ago :( Can you guys take a look at his numbers and let me know how I should proceed with the dose? THANK YOU!
     
  11. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    @Yong , I never saw this post, I am so sorry. Why does 2.5 seem too high to you? Yes, of course I would consider the 2 unit dose if it is better. Thanks!
     
  12. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Back when I posted that you were having much lower PMPS numbers which can sometimes indicate a dose is too high :). I'd say try the 1.75U as best you can. But try to get the PS numbers since 2.0U has gotten him to a lime green. What syringes are you using? Do they have half unit markings? It makes those 0.25 increments easier ;)
     
  13. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Thanks @Yong! Can you give me an idea of what kinds of numbers I should be expecting in the AM, nadir and PM? I have no idea, which is why I keep messing with his dose. Or at least what kind of pattern they should be following? I kept increasing his insulin because his numbers still seemed high and he is still drinking and urinating with abandon. Can you explain why a higher dose is not necc. a good idea in this case? THANKS! PS. Yes, I have the syringes with half-unit markings!
     
  14. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    No specific numbers per se but we aim to try to get similar AMPS and PMPS numbers without dropping them too much for nadir. This can cause somogyi effect or what we call here "bouncing", which can make some kitties feel icky. Are you testing him for ketones? Weekly testing is recommended if he is not prone to developing or post-DKA. How many hours after PM shot do you go to bed? Getting some before bed tests could help see where he's going overnight as most kitties naturally run lower cycles at night for an idiopathic reason :cat:. Also, for higher dosings, sometimes too much insulin can look like too little. So try your best to get those AMPS and PMPS readings and if you can, try for some test during his PM cycle :). Since you're up to 2.5U, back down to 2.0U again for a few days and we'll re-evaluate ;)
     
  15. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I like Yong's suggestion to go back to 2 u for a bit to see if the bouncing settles down.
     
  16. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Thanks guys, I will try this!
     
  17. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Hi guys, I'm back from vacation and trying to test Samson like WHOA. But he's been on 1.75 the entire time I've been away and his numbers are NOT where I want them to be. I'm very very concerned because he was DX'd like 3 mos ago and hasn't shown a lot of improvement on ProZinc. I am moving out of the country in 3 weeks and NEED to figure out his correct dose before then. Should I switch insulins??

    BTW, I found this chart for Lantus users re: what a cycle looks like and it's VERY HELPFUL. Does one exist for PZI users? Tx!

    Example of an ACTIVE, but NOT necessarily typical Lantus cycle:
    NOTE: Until kitty is pretty well regulated, the description below is NOT not what you'd consider a "typical" Lantus cycle. It takes time and patience for kitty to achieve a "typical" cycle! The example below is what you're working towards (a nice shallow curve). A relatively flat cycle is the ultimate goal.

    +0 - PreShot number.
    +1 - Usually higher than PreShot number because of the last shot wearing off. May see a food spike in this number.
    +2 - Often similar to the PreShot number. Onset begins around +2 for most cats. You'll probably see an active cycle if the +2 is the same/similar OR lower than the preshot number. Continue testing!
    +3
    - Often lower than the PreShot number.
    +4 - Lower.
    +5 - Lower.
    +6 - Nadir/Peak (the lowest number of cycle. NOTE: ECID. Not every cat has a mid-cycle nadir. Adjust the hours on this example to fit your cat.)
    +7 - Surf (hang around the nadir number).
    +8 - Slight rise.
    +9 - Slight rise.
    +10 - Rising.
    +11 - Rising (one of the quirks of Lantus/Levemir: some cat's blood glucose numbers dip around +10 or +11... not to be confused with nadir).
    +12 - PreShot number.

    EDITED TO ADD: Samson's fur is still of poor quality (thin, dandruffy) and he's still drinking too much water and urinating too much. I am freaking out.
     
  18. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    More or less the "ideal" by the book curve should end up about the same as the one described for Lantus, minus some lingo ;) like surfing. A quick glance at your SS suggests to me, his dose may be a teeny bit higher and it might be time to revisit the 1.5U. Try to get the AMPS and PMPS consistently next few days and squeeze in some before bed tests so we can see where he's going at night. Most kitties tend to run lower at night for some idiopathic reason :). Just to be safe, when was your last ketone test on Samson?

    Once his numbers get under better control (doesn't mean regulated) his coat should start looking better again and symptoms settle down some :bighug:. But we do rely on the data to tell us what's going on with him as well as how he's feeling :bighug:.
     
  19. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Hi @Yong, thanks for your reply! OK, I can switch back to 1.5, but it looks like I was doing that dose throughout June with too little effect? Although I wasn't very good about getting PMPS numbers then - I can be better now. Should I switch to that dose tonight? @Kris & Teasel - do you want to weigh in, too? Thanks! :D
     
  20. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I'll be different: that 1.5 u dose got some good numbers but it was quite a while ago now. I'd stay with 1.75 u for a few more cycles to see what happens - maybe a full curve on the weekend?
     
  21. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    @Kris & Teasel thanks, he's been on this dose for many cycles now, though: as I noted in his chart, I was away the past 9 days ( so haven't been testing) but his caretaker gave him 1.75 the whole time. So he's been on that since 7/31.
     
  22. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    You could try 2 u and be prepared to intervene with food if necessary.
     
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  23. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    This is why I'm confused... It seems like Yong is saying the dose is too high and you are saying the dose is too low :( He was on 2 units from 7/15 to 7/24 and that didn't seem to work too well either.
     
  24. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Would it be possible to get a third opinion from another PZI board user/moderator? Edited to add: maybe @Djamila could weigh in? :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
  25. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    We all weigh in with our opinions and they will diverge occasionally. Yong is at work now I think. You could post on the main health forum with a question mark icon added to your title.
     
  26. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Oh yes! I definitely appreciate any and all feedback, just feeling really lost right now because I've tried many doses and none seem right!
     
  27. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I know how frustrating it is but you'll get there eventually. :)
     
  28. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Ugh. This is a tough one. I'm inclined to go with Kris and suggest 2u, but there is some hint that today might be a high flat from a low, which I'm guessing is why Yong said to go with the lower dose. The reason you got two different opinions is because of the gaps in the data. We end up having to just make our best guess. If you can get a test around +4 tonight (after the PM dose), that would really help. If you shoot and then go to bed, maybe set an alarm, or get a +7 as soon as you wake up? We could really use a hint about what's happening overnight.

    One thing I want to point out though is that there is no such thing as a perfect dose. Even if you figure out a good dose for right now, that will change over the weeks and months while you're gone. Your caregiver should really be on the forum and willing to do some testing in order to take care of Samson while you're gone. Or is there any chance you can take him with you?

    Oh, and here is a graph that shows a Prozinc curve:

    upload_2017-8-10_13-32-39.png

    That is from a kitty who was still getting AMPS/PMPS numbers that were too high, but it shows the general shape of the curve. A regulated kitty should be around 200 at AM/PM pre-shot, and a bit below 100 at nadir. If the drop between the pre-shot and nadir is around 50%, it's a good cycle. More than that and you'll often end up with bouncing. Less than that and the dose is probably too low. HOWEVER, you'll usually get flat cycles after a big drop, so your cycle today might mean that there was a big drop last night. Or it might mean that there isn't enough insulin. That's why those mid-cycle tests matter so much.
     
  29. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Hey @Djamila, WOW! Thanks so much for your expansive response. I can get a +4 test tonight - if I'm understanding correctly, you're saying that will help a lot in determining if Samson should go to 1.5u or 2u from where he is now? Do I need additional +4 shots or would the one from tonight be enough?

    also, should I give him 1.5 or 1.75 or 2u insulin tonight? THANKS!
     
  30. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Definitely not a +4 shot. Just a test. I'm so glad you asked for clarification on that! Sometimes communicating over the internet can get tricky!

    We want to see how low he's getting after his normal PM shot. So you would test, give the normal PM shot, and then four hours later, do another test.

    And yes, it will help figure out if his numbers today were because he's dropping lower during the night or not. And that will help us figure out if the dose should go up, down, or stay the same.

    For tonight's dose, why don't you stick with the 1.75u, and then after we see what numbers he gets, we can hopefully have a clearer picture of the next step.
     
  31. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Yes, I definitely meant a +4 test! Oops, looks like I wrote "test" but later "shots"! OK - tonight I'll do 1.75u, and a +4 check on his blood. Will we need more of these +4 tests, or should tonight's suffice? Thanks, I appreciate the feedback so much!
     
  32. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    As often as you can get them, they can be helpful, but sleep is important, too. If you look at my spreadsheet, you can see that I get the AM/PM pre-shots every day, and then most days get a +3 (Sam hits nadir early, so a +3 is usually his nadir). So his shot time is at 4:30am/pm, that way I can get a +3 before I leave for work at 7:30am, and then in the evening the PMPS and somewhere between a +3 and +5. Having mid-cycle tests during both the morning and evening cycles is really important since some cats respond differently at night, and also because one cycle impacts the next cycle, so if you know what just happened, you can better predict what will happen next.

    If getting a +4 tonight means you'll be staying up late, or setting an alarm to wake up, you don't need to do it every night, but an occasional one can be helpful. Someone around here shoots and then goes to bed, and then they grab somewhere between a +6 to +8 when they are waking up in the morning. That's another way to make it work so you can get tests during both cycles.
     
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  33. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Thanks! Yeah, it means I'll be staying up late tonight on a work night, but in the future I can grab some over the weekend when I tend to stay up late, anyway. Thanks!
     
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  34. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    In case anyone sees this tonight, how should I base tomorrow's shot on tonight's +4 result? His PMPS was 322, so if he goes down what does that mean for his dose of 1.75u and what about if he goes up? Thanks! @Djamila
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
  35. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    He should be going down by +4. How much he goes down by +4 is what will help determine which dose looks like it will work best.
    With the 322 preshot he has room to drop more than 50% but fast drops can cause a bounce too. It really does depend on the numbers you get.
     
  36. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Sorry for the confusion! It was a mild suspicion that, I should have added :facepalm:, needed more data to confirm if 1.5U was too much but he's probably OK to do the increases since you are testing :). Consistent AMPS, PMPS, and some before bed tests will help us see what he's doing overnight ;)
     
  37. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Got the test! It's 150, down from 322, 4 hours later. What does this mean for bumping Samson's dose up or down tomorrow AM? THANKS! @StephG @Djamila @Yong
     
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  38. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Guessing if he has a typical nadir of between +5 and +7, he'll be around the same AMPS of 300's. If this holds true, you can probably try the 2.0U unless you have to go to work. If you won't be around, stick with 1.75U. You can wait until the weekend, assuming you're off, to try the 2.0U.

    Given that he's already dropping >50% of his PMPS, and he's probably clearing his bounce, you'll probably have a similar or slightly higher AMPS.:)
     
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  39. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    I second that! :)
     
  40. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Wow! That is a great response to the insulin. I agree with Yong that if you're going to be around to monitor today, you could try the little increase to 2u. However, it was a 50% drop and you might not have been at nadir yet, so if you are not going to be home to monitor, I would stick with 1.75 again.

    Great job getting that test last night. That was a really helpful piece of data!
     
  41. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Very nice drop last night. :)
     
  42. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    You guys are really the best and so supportive, I'm feeling less stressed. Is there a reason, though, if he's responding to the insulin, that he's basically never had a good curve the entire time he's been on it?

    He's at 337 this AM - not bad - I'm not home to monitor today, so I'll do 1.75 and try a bump to 2 over the weekend. THANK YOU!
     
  43. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure what you mean by he's never had a good curve. There are quite a few cycles that look like, if all of the data was there, they would have been good curves.

    Do you mean that he isn't in that 200 pre-shot/under 100 nadir? That just takes time, monitoring, and careful dose adjustments. You're only on month three, and there are a number of cycles where the monitoring wasn't happening enough to really know what changes to make. I don't say that as a judgment. This is hard, and it takes a lot on the part of the caregiver. Work and life interfere a lot and make this difficult. We can't always get the data we wish we could get, just because there are other demands and obligations.

    Also, it looks like he's been on a healthy diet for a long time, which means that his FD isn't related to poor diet, which means that it may be harder to get him regulated - there isn't an easy fix in this case like there is when it's just that the kitty has been eating crap for years, and a diet change fixes it pretty quickly. Although now that I think about it....which raw food has he been eating? Are you making it, or is it one of the commercial ones? I ask because Sam was on a raw food diet that ended up being 23% carbs and was the cause of his diabetes.
     
  44. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Thanks for the encouragement @Djamila ! I guess I thought I'd have a better idea of Samson's treatment by now, but I guess it's a longer (ie, life-long) project :/ I'll keep up with the testing! So just to confirm, you support trying him out at 2u while I'm home to monitor him?

    I need to update my signature. Samson WAS on a raw diet for years (it was just raw ground meat from the butcher, either chicken or beef, which they sold frozen as dog food) but as I've been dealing with his diabetes I've just been feeding him canned food: first Wellness then I switched to Natural Balance LID thinking maybe his symptoms were an allergy to chicken or beef (they weren't). In my anxiety yesterday I switched my cats (I have one other healthy one) to Fancy Feast which I saw is MUCH higher in protein than either of the other two foods I've been feeding him. I hope it helps, they both love the taste and the food is cheap!
     
  45. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmm....so you just switched food yesterday? And you're feeding Fancy Feast Classics, or one of the other ones? Fancy Feast Classics run between 0-3% carbs, while Natural Balance LID runs 10-12% carbs. That might not make any difference, but it may make a difference if Samson is carb sensitive. Were you able to get any mid-cycle tests today?
     
  46. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Hi @Djamila, yes I switched last night (to Classics, yes) - I had no idea the LID was so high in carbs, so I'm hoping this helps. I couldn't get any tests today, I normally work from home but a couple of days a week work in an office! I can get some tomorrow!
     
  47. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Are you home both days this weekend to test? I'm torn between waiting another day to see if the food makes any difference, or go ahead with the increase. @Yong, @Rachel, @Kris & Teasel @StephG, any thoughts on this?
     
  48. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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  49. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Yes, I will be home this weekend both days!!
     
  50. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I'd suggest giving 1.75 u again tonight and then increase to 2 u either Saturday or Sunday. Waiting until Sunday would give one more day's data with the food change but his numbers are high enough that you could increase tomorrow.
     
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  51. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Hi guys, thanks again for all the info, I'll stick with 1.75 for a cycle or two more and see if he reacts to the food at all! And yes, that chart is AMAZING and the reason I switched his food :) Thanks!
     
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  52. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Finally got a nice yellow AMPS number today: 288 :D
     
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  53. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I was out last night! What a great yellow....isn't it nice too see those numbers?
     
  54. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    @Rachel feels so good! Hoping for a dip into blue at his nadir :)
     
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  55. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Apologies here too, I passed out shortly after taking care of Maury. Thought it would just be a little power nap. At least I got a nice mid cycle data point at night though :rolleyes:.

    I like Kris's suggestion too :)
     
  56. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    124 at +3 :D
     
  57. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Will you be able to grab a +4 , +5, or +6 today? That's a 50% drop already and you're pretty early in the cycle. I'd love to see if you hit a green by nadir.
     
  58. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    @Djamila, will grab a +5 before I leave the house today! Do you think the drop could be attributed to the diet change??
     
  59. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Could be...
     
  60. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Just got a 57 at +5! Since this is low and he still has an hour to go til nadir, I'll give him a small snack.
     
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  61. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Holy smokes! Yes, and the dose increase is canceled for now. What a great number!
     
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  62. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    239 PMPS! Perfect curve today :D
     
  63. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    If this keeps up, you're going to have to change the title of this thread ;)
     
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  64. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Very nice cycle today! :cat::cool::D
     
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  65. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Samson's on his way to another nice cycle today :eek: Maybe the problem this whole time has been his diet??
     
  66. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    May have spoken too soon - instead of going down at his nadir of +6 Samson went back up to 273 - same as AMPS more or less. What could account for that, or just normal variation? @Djamila @Yong @Kris & Teasel
     
  67. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Just a bit of bouncing - not to worry. It's best to look at overall trends rather than individual numbers. :)
     
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  68. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Yes to what Kris said. Keep the dose and keep watching the cycles. His body is just adjusting to lower numbers. It takes some time and you get variation in the cycles while they get used to it. Whenever you can, grab a test during the PM cycle too. I know those are harder since you know...sleep. I just read on another thread that one way to do it if you can't stay up late is to drink a big glass of water right before bed. Then when the inevitable happens, you just grab a test at the same time. :joyful: For someone like me that simply cannot wake up during the night, I think that's kind of genius.
     
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  69. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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  70. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Apr 27, 2017
    Getting some yellows and blues the past days but no greens, should I continue with 1.75u?
     
  71. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    If you can monitor and have HC food, lots of strips, etc. you can try 2 u. You had a lowish dark green a few days ago so a little caution is in order.
     
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  72. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Apr 27, 2017
    Thanks @Kris & Teasel. I'm at work tomorrow so I'll wait until Thurs. to increase. Is HC high-calorie, high-carb? What are some examples of this kind of food?
     
  73. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    HC is high carb. Friskies or Fancy Feast chunks in gravy would be in this category. You can also just add honey, karo syrup, etc. in various amounts to regular low carb food to make it medium or high carb.
     
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  74. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Apr 27, 2017
    Getting some good numbers from Samson this week :)
     
  75. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Jan 11, 2017
    Indeed, time to change that thread title :smuggrin::p
     
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  76. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Apr 27, 2017
    I'm so pleased! I really think it was the switch to Fancy Feast...
     
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  77. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Apr 27, 2017
    Hi all! Samson is still doing well, but I'm still getting pinks, especially at AMPS. Can you take a look at his chart and weigh in as to whether I should up his dose to 2u or stick with 1.75? THANKS! @Yong @Djamila @Kris & Teasel
     
  78. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Still a little bouncing but not extreme. I think you can try 2 u now if you're around to monitor.
     
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  79. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 25, 2013
    I second that!
     
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  80. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    I third it!
     
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  81. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    I fourth it :D
     
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  82. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Apr 27, 2017
    Thanks crew! I wasn't around yesterday to monitor, but I gave 2u this morning and Sam is doing well- 166 at nadir. Thanks for all the support/feedback!
     
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  83. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Currently hanging on mama's lap :joyful: IMG_9492.JPG
     
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  84. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Apr 27, 2017
    Currently trying 2u with Samson and not liking how he's responding...his AMPS was 298 today and at +3 he went UP to 347...I'll get some more numbers today but considering he was doing well at 1.75u (please see chart) maybe I should keep him there? Advice much appreciated as always! @Kris & Teasel @Rachel @Yong @Djamila
     
  85. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    Any chance of a Fur Shot? If not, the 347 kind of shows him staying flat from his AMPS of 298, they're within 20% variations. Let's see how he does and if possible, can you grab a before bed test? Apologies if you've mentioned before why not, I know someone needed sleeping meds and had to get to sleep immediately after, was that you? lol oh my memory :rolleyes:
     
  86. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Apr 27, 2017
    Hi @Djamila , no chance of a fur shot. Yeah even if it's flat tho, the 1.75 dose reliably makes him go DOWN. Yes! I can get a before-bed test (nope that wasn't me re: meds)
     
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  87. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Jan 11, 2017
    Before bed test, not shot :smuggrin:
     
  88. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Apr 27, 2017
    Sorry yeah I know he always gets only 2 shots a day, just mis-typed :)
     
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  89. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    Looks like bouncing to me. He might be dropping lower at night so some evening testing would help. Stay the course ...
     
  90. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Apr 27, 2017
    @Kris & Teasel stay the course as in continue with 2u? It kinda seems like the 1.75u works better...
     
  91. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Stay at 2 u for now. You need to let him settle from the bouncing to see what 2 u can do.
     
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  92. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Apr 27, 2017
    Oh, I see. Yeah, it's hard for me not to freak out and drop him back down...but I will continue. Thanks!
     
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  93. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    I agree with sticking to 2u for now. If you could get some evening tests, that would be really helpful. It's hard to suggest an increase without knowing for sure that he'll be safe overnight. Many cats run lower at night than they do during the day.
     
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  94. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Apr 27, 2017
    Thanks @Kris & Teasel and @Djamila . @Djamila , I'm actually not looking to increase, more concerned that his dose is too high. I'll try a few more cycles at 2u.
     
  95. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I understood that. You only saw one green a while back on 1.75 u and the lows more recently have been blues. The 2 u dose numbers have been elevated by bouncing. The hope is that he'll settle more on this dose so he can drop to the low it's capable of giving.
     
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  96. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Apr 27, 2017
    Totally, it's just that Djamila said "It's hard to suggest an increase without knowing for sure that he'll be safe overnight." so I was clarifying that I'm not looking to do that! I'll let you all know how 2u goes...
     
  97. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 25, 2013
    Yep, dosing based on a bounce cycle isn't a good idea. Give him some time to settle in before you decide to decrease..I think he'll surprise you!
     
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  98. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Apr 27, 2017
    Y'all are the best!
     
  99. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    Oops! Sorry for the confusion! Thanks for clarifying.
     
  100. SamsonsMom

    SamsonsMom Member

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    Apr 27, 2017
    334 at +4 after PM shot - more bouncing :(
     

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