satina

hallo, maybe here i can post my health question.
sati, 13 years old.
diabethis since december.
started caninsulin in january
3 units twice a day.
bad glucose curve, 560,502,303,37,43,50
so we gave her 1,5 units twice a day,
505,343,429,436,466
now i am at 2 units twice a day
500,456,361,358,444.

it is still too high.
one vet tells me to increase the dose, another to change to lantus.
Don't know what to do.
Please, any suggestion?
thank you.

 

It looks to me as though once you reached an effective dose of Vetsulin for Sati, it was a little too harsh for her system and dropped her too low part-way through the cycle. If you can afford it, I would try switching to one of the gentler, longer-acting insulins...ProZinc, Lantus and Levemir are all good options. All are effective but don't usually show that fast, hard drop that you saw on the 3 units (later in the cycle that would be typical with Vetsulin, but there just the same) - instead they are good at maintaining healthier numbers right through the 12 hour cycle.

 

thank you,
is it lantus gentler?
in which sense?
is it a stress to change insulin to a cat?
she is so delicate and sensitive.

 

Lantus has a gentler action on a cat's system than Vetsulin (which was originally designed for dogs, not cats). For most cats, the dose lasts close to the full 12 hours between shots in their system, so instead of the cat having insulin for a few hours then none for a few hours and so on, for most cats it means that there is insulin in their system keeping those numbers down all of the time. My Rosa was a Lantus kitty while she was on insulin - if you look at her spreadsheet, you can see how over time her numbers flattened right out so there was very little variation in them right through the day most of the time with not many big jumps up and down in numbers during any 12 hour cycle. It does take a few days once you switch to Lantus to start seeing the full effect because it takes a few days for the Lantus depot to build. But the depot is one of the things that makes Lantus effective - it means that even approaching shot time, there is still some insulin effective in a cat's system where, with Vetsulin, the insulin can often wear off after about 8 hours leaving the cat with no insulin in their system for around 4 hours out of every 12 hour cycle - that of course leads to very high pre-shot numbers and hours out of every day spent in high numbers for many cats. It shouldn't stress her system to make the switch - ultimately you're switching to something that is gentler for her delicate system than the Vetsulin she has been on.

 

Caninsulin is a much better "dog" insulin....thus the "canin" in the name....cats have a faster metabolism and the caninsulin tends to be very "hard-hitting", dropping them fast and then wearing off long before the next shot is due so the cat ends up being forced low quickly, then soaring up high again before the next shot

Lantus is a human insulin that lasts 12-16 hours in cats....it's gentler on their system because it doesn't "force" the numbers down fast and hard like caninsulin can

There's a protocol for using lantus that's been published in a veterinary journal showing rates of remission up to 84% in newly diagnosed cats

 

so sweet from you, thank you.
how would you suggest to start?
1 unit twice a day or two?

 

The starting dose is usually based on the cat's weight. But I'm not sure if you'd need to adjust that starting dose to take the Vetsulin dose she's been on into account or whether it might make more sense at this point to just re-set the dose completely and start over fresh. @Chris & China - what do you think would be best?

 

I would go with the vet telling you to switch insulins--Lantus has a much better success rate in cats. Cats have metabolisms that are twice as fast as people or dogs, so they need a long acting insulin (like Lantus or Levemir) twice a day.

How much does your cat weigh? Is she overweight or underweight at all? If so, how much?

Lantus is dosed twice a day, and the starting dose should be .25u per kg of ideal weight. If a cat is underweight, you start with .25u/kg of actual weight.

Are you home testing at all? Sometimes when a previous insulin has been used you also want to consider the previous dose as well. Also, what are you feeding her? If she is eating dry or high carb food at all, it would be a good time to change her diet, too.

 

Both Lantus and Levemir tend to have a much flatter curve, that is the drop from preshot BG to the low point is less. These insulins are depot insulin that means they build up in the system over days.

 

We do take into consideration the dose the cat was on using a different insulin, not necessarily going by the initial starting dose based on weight, but what's also going to be important is for you to be able to get U100 syringes with half unit markings.

Caninsulin is a U40 insulin...Lantus is U100 so they use different syringes. I see you're in Italy so you'd need to find someplace you can buy U100 3/10ml, 30 or 31 gauge insulin syringes with half unit markings

I think a lot of our UK members buy a particular kind of B-D syringes but right this second, I can't remember who they are

 

I'm in the UK and I use BD Microfine U100 o.3ml Demi syringes. I buy from either Ebay UK or Amazon UK (whichever has the best price when I'm ordering).


Mogs
.

 

Thank you to all.
These days have been tough.
I am trying to increase caninsulin, as one of my vet suggested.
The glucose seems better.
Yesterday the curve was
8.04 415
12.50 133
18.42 152
what do you think?
Thank you for the videos on picking blood from ears, it has been helpful,
unfortunately it worked yesterday, but this morning it seems as is from that vein there was no more blood coming out.

Sati is intolerant to almost everything.
I cook for her meat and fish.

But in the anterior legs she is very very weak.
Does this have happened to your dears too?
One vet told me to give her STIMUFOSS
and to make her almost 80 ml of fluid, better if every day.
What do you think?

Thank you to all of you.

 

When was the shot given?
To make it easier to evaluate the curve it is best to preset the curve as:
AM PS (or PM PS) = X where X is the BG measured before shot.
Each subsequent BG measure is prefixed with the number of hours after the shot. The form is:
+2 = Y where Y is the BG measured two hours after the shot
+6 = Z would be the BG measured 6 hours after the shot

 

Hi Piri,

The numbers you list are typical of a strong response to Caninsulin. Try alternating the ears for the testing. As you continue to test more capillaries will form in the test sites and it will get progressively easier to get blood samples reliably. In the meantime try warming the ear for quite a long time; it helps a lot.

Re the weak legs, that may be due to diabetic neuropathy (more common) or low phosphorus (less common - great care is needed because oversupplementing potassium is very dangerous - regular blood tests would be needed).

Have a look at this video and let us know if it's similar to the problems Sati is currently having:



If it is neuropathy it can be treated with B12 methylcobalamin (as Tootsie's story shows). Also as Sati's regulation improves that will also help to resolve any neuropathy issues. NB: Some human supplements contain sugars, artificial sweeteners (not safe for cats) and other unsuitable ingredients. If you let us know which country you're in we should be able to recommend a diabetic-friendly B12 methylcobalamin supplement for you.

I'm not familiar with Stimufoss: can you tell us more about it, please?


Mogs
.

 

Yes, I went to the vet and her glucose was too low
at 12.00 she is 128
may be really caninsulin is not good.
But I am afraid to start lantus, afraid of hypoglicemia.
don't know how to start. her weight is 4,2 kilos
she is 13 years old
she is taking 2 units twice a day of caninsulin
any suggestion?

i am making her fluids, with stimufloss,
i live in italy, if you have any suggestion for the b vitamin supplement.

i am not able to find the right dose with caninsulin!!!
she is suffering of this since december!
do you think lantus would be better?

i am feeding her with meat and fish...
not o much fish.
is is a diet too rich in phosforus?
thank you!

 

yes, the problem is similar.
she walks like that with all the feet

 

sweet baby...
i am also giving her spirulina, one pill.
what do you think?

 

yes, i think the response to caninsulin is to high since I have increased the dose,
the shift is too high between one measure and the other.
don't know what to do.
i am afraid to start lantus, afraid to stress her and to start again,
thank you

 

Don't be afraid to change insulins. Lantus is a great insulin & much gentler than caninsulin.

 

tomorrow I am going to listen the opinion of another vet...
thank you to support me,
it warms

 

I use Levemir which is similar to Lantus. When I switched I was terrified, but it is working so much better and my cat is doing well. If you need advice about the switch, post on the Lantus forum & Use a '?' In your thread title.

 

Piri,
please be careful with what you feed your cat.
Meat and fish is good but if it is just that it is not very well balanced as cats need various elements.
They need bones and taurine which they mainly get from a heart of animal so it is very important to give them fresh heart (chicken for instance). So meat is best on the bone like chicken leg or neck or wing. If you can't give (fresh, uncooked) bone then you must get calcium supplement and if you can't give fresh heart you must supplement with taurine in a powder form.
Anyway, feeding cooked meat is not the right thing to do. If you want to make food at home please find Dr Lisa Pearson's recipe for raw homemade cat food or find good quality low carbohydrate (no wheat, soya, corn etc) commercial wet cat food (no dry food).
There is lots of information here what to feed your diabetic cat.
B12 vitamin is available from internet - the one I use is Doctor's Best Fully Active B12 (methylcobalamin- that's the chemical name) capsules 1.5 mg which you can sprinkle or mix with food.

Regarding Caninsulin you can change doses by o.5 units if you have it in a pen or if in the vial you can do 0.25 units.
I used Caninsulin and got my cat in remission on it twice but the third time I couldn't regulate him at all so I changed to Prozinc Hypurin which is a long lasting one and gentler.
We are on the road of recovery now, you can see Rocky's SS.
There is now a cat only insulin available in Europe (definitely in the UK) : ProZinc human recombinant U40 insulin for cats which you should be able to get from your vet.
Best of luck
Marlena

 

my God!
i don't know much about stimufoss.
but i am reading, it is B1 B2 B12 VITAMIN PP, which the vet told me to put 1 mg in 80 ml of fluid.
Which taurin supplement can I find in Italy please?
And calcium? Isn't too much for kidneys?
I am giving her spirulina, do you know about it?
She is very weak this night, I am new to measure blood by myself, it is not easy,
thank you for the video i found here.
tomorrow i am going to hear another opinion about the insulin, with caninsulin
I am not able to find the dose.
2 units twice a day were not enough,
2,5 units twice seems too much...

 

Hi Piri,

I understand your worry about the possibility of changing to another insulin but Lantus is much gentler and longer-acting than Caninsulin. You don't get the deep dives in blood glucose numbers that Caninsulin produces. It's also easier to fine tune the dose. Saoirse was treated with both Caninsulin and Lantus. I had to stop giving her Caninsulin because it became unsafe to give it to her for fear of her going too low (plus it made her feel lousy). I achieved much, much better control of her BG levels on Lantus, and she felt better and happier on it.

You can get taurine from zooplus.

Other members replying: Can you recommend a B12 methylcobalamin supplement available in Europe, please? (I bought Zobaline from the US for Saoirse.)

In case you've not come across these links they contain lots of hints and tips for testing:

Home testing links and tips

Testing and injecting tips

You will find the right treatment for Sati and you will get the hang of testing as you start getting practice. Hang in there, OK!


Mogs
.

 

Dear Piri,
I'm happy to help you with supplementing your cats diet but it is not that simple as putting in a few supplements.
Cat food has to be balanced otherwise you risking some serious health problems.
I would like to suggest that you give some thought to what is the best option for you when it comes to feeding your beloved kitty.
I see 2 options:
1. feeding good quality low carbohydrate wet food (commercial)
2. making your own cat food which requires a bit more time and knowledge
Feeding your cat just cooked meat and fish could harm your cat's health and your best efforts in treating her for diabetes would be wasted, you might also consider the cost of vets visits.
You might want to speak with your vet regarding best food for your cat but please be aware that your vet will most likely recommend dry diabetic food for your cat and might not know anything about feline nutrition.
Please let me know what would be you decision regarding feeding your kitty, I really would like to point you in the right direction as a right diet for your cat is of great importance.
Best regards
Marlena

 

dears, i went to the vet.
he said caninsulin is not good.
her average in 4 months is 400 of glicemia.
she said to start one unit once a day,
for 15 days, then to measure fructosamine,
or to measure the urines at home before,
if still high to increase, one unit twice a day every 12 hours.
please, what do you think?
thanks
she is not good at all

 

I wouldn't dose Lantus just once daily as it only lasts about 12 hours in cats. It lasts around 24 hours in humans, but cats have a faster metabolism so it doesn't last as long. At 4.2 kilos, the starting dose for Lantus would be 1 unit twice a day, not 1 unit once a day. That would be without making any adjustment based on her previous caninsulin dose, but you can definitely use the Lantus to 'start over' with her dosing and use the 1 unit. I would definitely give it twice a day though.

 

ok, thank you really very much.
First I don't know where to find the spread sheet set up.
I would start tomorrow,
BUT i have only one card for glucose measure...
I'll order tomorrow, but I think I can have it saturday,
but really I would start tomorrow.
I cook for her, she has no carbo in her diet, apart rarely when i give some fish which has a bit of rice,
wet food.
as i told you she is intolerant to almost everything.
I agree, 1 unit once a day to me is not enough.
if i start 1 unit twice a day would i risk hypo?
I work and i will be at home at lunch and at dinner tomorrow and saturday.
Second, the vet said that stimufloss, which is a liquid with Vit B components i should do
only twice a week not every day.
while others fluid is good every day.
do you agree?
she said that if she doesn't respond well it will start a deadly process...
she has described it to me...
too much...
(she is the love of my life, may be it seems crazy, but she really is)
thanks

 

dear marlena, yes please suggest me about food.

 

Instructions for how to set up and use the spreadsheet are here http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
Let me know if you're having trouble with it and I can help you.

I would say probably no more so than with the dose of caninsulin you've been giving, and probably less of a risk with a low dose of Lantus. Any insulin CAN cause a hypo, but you're going to be reducing the dose as well as switching insulins.

If you can test when you're home, that will really help. The more data you can get together on Satina's numbers and how she reacts to Lantus, the better. Plus you'll be able to see for yourself whether or not she's going lower than you're comfortable with.

Did she say what process? My Rosa gets fluids every other day, an iron plus B-vitamin supplement twice a day and B-12 injections 3 times a week. Others do similar with their cats. I haven't heard of it starting a deadly process unless you happen to over-hydrate with too much fluids, but you can avoid that by making sure the fluids are absorbed fully before you give any more.

Not crazy at all. Many of us here would say the same thing...so unless we're all crazy...(please don't answer that ) !!

 

unfortunately around me no one can understand that,
and unfortunately I am living this all alone.

 

ok, i'll fill it, thank you




ok, but unfortunately i have only ONE card to measure glucose, until saturday, so tomorrow i can measure only once.
i would think it would be good at the time for the second injection, or may be at lunch when I'll be at home?





how can I see if she is going lower?




satina suffers when i do fluids.
after that she has pain in the part.
could you please suggest me an iron B vitamin supplement in italy?
and about B12 injections?
how much?
stimufloss could be good?

the vet said the deadly process of this illness, if she doesn't respond well.
you know,
i didn't need to hear that.
Italians are strange people.

 

i appreciate so much what you have done here, what you are doing.
thank you to all of you.

 

Just let me know if you have any trouble figuring it out. I can definitely help you with setting it up if you're having any problems.

I don't think there is a perfect answer to that. Generally, we test before each shot and a couple of times during the cycle. Is there any way you can get more test strips before the weekend?

Only based on her test numbers - the same numbers you get when you do a curve. Those show you how low the dose is taking her, as well as giving you your pre-shot numbers so you know that it's safe to give insulin.

How much fluid are you giving? Satina is about the same weight as my Rosa - I give 50-100 ml every other day depending on whether or not she'll keep still for the full 100 ml (she gets bored easily). The maximum fluids for a cat of Satina's weight would be 100 ml every day. Most cats don't have pain after the fluids - the needle might hurt for a second or two, and there might be slight discomfort if you touch the fluid pouch afterwards, but it shouldn't be painful.

These are what I give Rosa http://www.amazon.com/Liqui-Tinic-F...F8&qid=1460668493&sr=8-1&keywords=liqui-tinic for her oral supplement (1 dropper twice a day) and this http://www.allivet.com/p-5323-cyano...o9ETpS-ed-lXWgWPbXZjOiKbn-FVZNxgnYxoC63Lw_wcB as her injected B12 (0.25 ml 3 times a week). I'm not sure about availability in Italy as I'm in the USA. Rosa is on a high dose of the injected B12 because she's anemic - the standard dose is 0.25 ml once a week. Unfortunately, I can't find any reference to Stimufloss on the internet - can you give me more details of it so I can check the amounts of vitamins against the supplements I'm familiar with?

I think your vet is giving you a very bleak outlook. Diabetes in cats doesn't have to be life-threatening or even life-limiting once you get the cat regulated on a good insulin. Caninsulin does work for some cats, but most seem to do better on one of the longer-acting insulins like Lantus. It's very early days for Satina yet with her treatment and there are other insulin options if you find the Lantus doesn't work well for her. Your vet may be basing her answer on what happens when diabetes doesn't get treated - then it can lead to other problems. But you're treating Satina so there is no reason you shouldn't be able to give her a normal life. Don't give up because of something that one vet has told you!

 

Piri
I'm in France and have some left over B12 methylcobalamin 500 mcg capsules from Crystal's medication, if you send me a PM with your address, I'll post them to you. I bought them from
Vitacost in the U.S. there's about 250 capsules left out of 300.

You might want to think about making your own raw food and adding in a premix of vitamins. Check out www.tatzenladenshop.de based in Germany, they ship to Italy and also sell supplements and vitamins.

We also switched from Caninsulin to Lantus and then to Levemir.
I understand your love for Sati don't give up, FD can be treated despite what your vet says.

Suki

 

i wait to start lantus until i have the cards.
i'll update you all, thank you thank you all of you

 

Here is information about how to treat hypos. NB: a cat can be in low numbers and not display any symptoms of hypo (hence the need to home test). That said, if you read and print out the hypo guide it will give you some idea of signs to look for (especially important while you haven't got enough meter test strips).

Hypo Guide - print this out

Hypo Tool Kit

Sometimes a cat might vomit if it's low. Also, if it's the period of strongest effect of the insulin and your cat looks like it's asleep it's no harm to check that the cat is just sleeping and not lethargic from low blood glucose levels. (Rouse the cat a little and make sure it responds to you normally.)

You should discuss all supplements with your vet to make sure your little one has a balanced diet. April's cat, Rosa, has kidney issues hence the need for the iron supplementation in her case but iron supplementation could be harmful to your cat.

Have a look at Zooplus. They do a pre-mix food additive called Felini Complete. You just add it to meat to make a complete cat food with all of the vitamins, minerals, and essential amino acids your cat needs. You may need to add a little fibre to the food (e.g. plain pumpkin). If you do want to try this, tell your vet first because (s)he will need to know what you're giving your cat in order to advtry it, introduce it to the diet gradually (otherwise it could cause a digestive upset).



Mogs
.

 

well, this morning she was 297 glucose, not so high as usual, but I have decided to start with lantus anyhow.
One unit.
I have glucose cards, I'll measure the glucose today, after 3, 9 and pre shot.
I 'll do 50/60 ml of fluids.
I'll ask you about supplements for sure, I would love a gentle supplements, since she is old sweet baby and i wouldn't to stress her kidneys.
I'll tell you after the curve.
thank you all

 

yhank you suki.
I have had a look to the german website.
Which supplement would be gentler for sati?
she eats chiken and beef, sometimes fish.
she makes minerals fluid.
thanks

 

Hello Piri

When I made my raw mix for Crystal I used the TC Premix Plus with chicken liver. It's a powder that you just mix with water and add to raw, minced meat (I used chicken tighes, no bone). It has all the necessary vitamins and supplements already added so you don't need to add anything else. Full instructions are with every packet, it's very easy to make a batch and then portion it up and freeze the rest in handy portion sizes for Sati. It's a high protein, low carb diet.

Let me know if you want the B12 methylcobalamin tablets for Sati's neuropathy, I'm happy to post them to you if they would help.

Suki

 

i am giving her stimulfos made by teknoofarma.
the vet told me to give 1 ml 3 times a week. it is vit b1,b2,b6,b12.
is TC premix food?
she is intolerant to everything almost.
or a powder of mixed vitamins?
sorry for my english
thank you

 

i am giving her stimulfos made by teknoofarma.
this morning i have started lantus.
one unit
8.30 she was 297
11.30 she was 397
so i have made her 50 ml fluids.
let's see at 4.30 p.m
the vet told me to give 1 ml 3 times a week. it is vit b1,b2,b6,b12.

 

hello Piri

The TCPremix is a powder formula containing all necessary vitamins that you just mix with water, and then add raw minced meat to it. The actual breakdown of vitamins in it is available on their website but here is the breakdown for the TCPremixPlus chicken liver formula:

Ingredients
Milk Mineral Complex, Egg Yolk, Chicken Liver freeze-dried, Whey Protein Concentrate, Gelatin, Calcium Lactate, Taurine, Seaweed, Vitamin B Complex (Vitamin B1, Vitamin B2, Niacinamide, Vitamin B6, Vitamin B12, Biotin, Folic acid, Pantotenic acid), Vitamin E, Vitamin D3.

Analysis
Protein ...........39,5%
Fat................. 16,8%
Fibre ................0,6%
Ash.................26,8%
Moisture........... 6,1%

Additives per 1000 g
Vitamin E.......1774 IE
Vitamin D.........977 IE
Taurine.......39110 mg

To complete the recipe you add to each 60g premix
- 236 ml/1 cup water
- 900g/2 lbs. raw meat

Hope this is helpful for you.

Suki

 

I found it this time, thank you. It looks like it's just B-complex, so it should be fine for her. The B vitamins are very safe for cats - I don't know of any side-effects from giving them except that for some cats, the injection can sting a little. I have heard that injecting it into the line for fluids part-way through giving the fluids can help because the fluid that is already in the cat at that point dilutes it immediately though that isn't something I've tried doing myself. The Lantus does take time to reach full effect. You won't see exactly what the dose can do for her for about the first 5 days while the depot builds in her system so if she's a little higher for the next day or two, try not to worry too much.

 

HALLO, I HAVE DONE THE SPREADSHEET, PLEASE HAVE A LOOK.
SATINA IS UNDER LANTUS SINCE 2 DAYS.
1+1 a day
it isn't really going well...
what to do?
thank you

 

When I click on your SS link I get:
Not Found
Error 404

 

anyhow, if my spreadsheet hasn't been completed correctly, which I suppose,
here some data.
STARTED 17.04
MORNING SHE WAS 295 AFTER CANINSULIN NIGHT BEFORE 2 UNITS
I GAVE LANTUS 1 UNIT
+2 395
+7 406
+9 399 plus 50 ml fluids
+11 358

18.04.2016
MORNING
403
+6 470 plus 50 ml fluids
+10 461

 

It takes 3-5 days for a depot insulin like lantus to be fully effective.
The BG values show really no effect from the insulin. I would give 1 unit three more days before likely increasing the dose

 

i know, i tried again, I did something wrong

 

i give her one unit the morning and one after 12 hours!
so 2 units

 

YES SORRY I AM GIVING 1+1 UNITS OF LANTUS

 

MORNING SHE WAS 295 AFTER CANINSULIN NIGHT BEFORE 2 UNITS
I GAVE LANTUS 1 UNIT
+2 395
+7 406
+9 399 plus 50 ml fluids
+11 358

18.04.2016
MORNING
403
+6 470 plus 50 ml fluids
+10 461

this is the THIRD DAY
GAVE 1 UNIT LANTUS AT 8
AT 13 SHE HAS 501!!!
what can i do?
i made her some fluids,
thank you

 

I myself would increase to 1 1/2 units Lantus. Many will probably says increase to 1 1/4

 

Morning. You are do I g great, you will get the hang of it.

Can you fix your ss a little? Example if you give shots at 7am and 7 pm

The "B" column is the test you get in the morning (AMPS) . 7am

Column C "U" is the amount of insulin you give for the morning g dose.

Column "D" or +1 stands for 1 hour after shot (8am) +2 is two hours after shot (9am) etc across the row until;

PMPS which is evening preshot. 7 pm for this example. Then fill the columns across like you did for the morning.

Each row is 24 hours split in 12 hr cycles.


Does this make sense for you. Look at some others and you will see. I have extra info on mine which makes it look busy.

 

You can look at Rosa's spreadsheet if that will help - I think I put most of the 'extra' stuff in the comments column on hers. Usually with Lantus, you hold the starting dose for 5 days to allow the depot to build and you do often see higher numbers during that time, but as Satina was on 2 units of Caninsulin and no adjustment was made to her starting dose for Lantus based on her Caninsulin dose, you might well be OK to increase to 1.25 units at this point.

 

ok, i'll see tomorrow.
thank you to all of you.

 

this morning she was 412.
preshot.
i have added new values to spreadsheet hope it has update.
thank you

 

i have updated ss.
could you please have a check and suggest?
tomorrow would be the fourth day
thank you all

 

thanks again, new measure. after 6 hours 464
then, i use to give her at lunch a bit of food, a small snack.
no carb
do you too?
is it right?

 

An inverse curve like your are getting either mean you are giving too much insulin or not enough insulin.
Since you are only on 1 unit I doubt you are giving too much insulin. If you do not give enough the inverse curve is because the insulin does not counteract the BG spike due to food.
My MurrFee had a similar curve but worse since at abut 5-7 hours his BG would be HI (>600)

 

ok, after 8 hours she is 429.
i think tomorrow morning i'll increase 1,25 only in the morning what do you think?
thank you

 

i am giving her not only 1 unit, but 2, 1 every 12 hours.
but before she was 2 +2 with can insulin.
I AM THINKING TO INCREASE TOMORROW MORNING 1.5 ONLY IN THE MORNING.
what do you think?
thank you

 

What insulin are you using? It would be useful to add that to your signature like you added your SS link.
There is no insulin that last 24 hours in cats. I would increase to 1 1/4 units twice a day

 

I would increase to 1.25 morning AND evening. Giving different doses at each shot time doesn't work all that well with Lantus.

 

well guys.
i have updated the ss.
i have to increase.
slow.
so, i'll try to increase half of half in the morning and at night.
don't know really how to find half of half!!!!
anyhow...
do you agree?
increase of 0.25+o.25 seems too much

 

sorry, i haven't understood something.
the start slow go slow says to increase of 0.25 unit.
what does it mean?
o.25 is the second small line in the syringes?
half of one unit?
and it means to add 0.25 every 12 hours?
while the tight regulation with my values would suggest to add 0.5
it means what one unit more every 12 hours?
thank you

 

I think some of the terminology we use is being lost in translation here. When we talk about a particular dose, that is the dose that is given every cycle (every 12 hours) not the total dose for 24 hours. This is because even the long-acting insulins only usually last around 12 hours in cats because they metabolize insulin quickly. So what we're really talking about is the active dose at any given moment.

When you say you are giving 2 units per day because it's 1 unit in the morning and 1 unit at night, that is still only a dose of 1 unit. The reason for giving the insulin twice a day is because it's only effective for 12 hours. So the effective dose in the cat's system at any given time is 1 unit not 2.

When we suggest you increase by 0.25 of a unit, that would be at every dose. So you would give 1.25 units in the morning and 1.25 units at night. I don't know what syringes you have or what the markings look like, but I have never heard of an insulin syringe with markings smaller than 0.5 of a unit. So to get 1.25, you would be aiming for halfway between the 1 unit line and the 1.5 unit line IF your syringes have half unit markings.

We increase by 0.25 of a unit at a time because this is the best way to find the ideal dose for any individual cat. You would only increase by 0.5 of a unit at a time if your cat was already on a high dose of insulin. 0.25 of a unit increase on a 1 unit dose is an increase of 25% which is quite enough at any one time!

 

Yes, so clear from you. Thank you, the problem is that i have the marker for 1.50 but it is quite impossible to find 1.25!!! And i have 0.3 syringes !

 

That is a problem we all have. There are, to my knowledge, no syringes that have markings for anything less than a half unit. So we do the best we can and aim for halfway between 1 unit and 1.5 units. The thing to remember is that the most important thing is that the doses you give are as close to the same as you can make them. I might measure 1.25 units a little differently than the way someone else measures it. But as long as you measure the same way all the time, you will still be giving Satina the same dose at every shot - that is what really matters.

 

23 april
well, i have updated the ss
increased this morning the dose.
not many changes,
she still drinks a lot,
very weak in the front legs,
glicemie up to 400.
let's hope.
ciao

 

It will take several cycles before you get a full picture of how the dose increase is working; it takes time for the depot to reach its new level.


Mogs
.

 

Ok, how many days about?
Ciao

 

Typically 3-5 days (6-10 12-hour cycles).

.

 

25.04.2016
hallo, have updated ss.
she is bad...
she has more difficulties to walk, please, can't see her like this.
what better to do?
thanks

 

As tonight will be her 6th shot at the 1.25 unit dose, I think you could increase to 1.5 units (for both morning and evening shots) from tomorrow morning as you're not getting the response to the dose that you're looking for just yet.

The difficulty in walking is most likely diabetic neuropathy. That does take time to get better. The best treatment for it is a form of vitamin B12. For neuropathy, the B12 has to be in the form of methylcobalamin and you will probably need to give it as an extra supplement in addition to the B-complex you are already giving her.

 

Thank you.

 

I agree with increasing to 1 1/2 units twice daily net shot time unless you get an abnormally low PS

 

Hang in there. I know how hard it is to see your little one poorly. My heart was like a lead weight in the period after Saoirse's diagnosis; she looked so ill. After a few months of insulin treatment the transformation in her was nothing short of amazing. Sending prayers and positive thoughts for Satina to make a wonderful recovery.




Mogs
.

 

really thank you.
so sad. loose hope.
this morning 1.5

 

No no no dont lose hope! she is still on small dose. We were at 4. My cat was in high numbers for more than 2 months. You cant quit now! We will be with you.

 

Thank you, unfortunately Satina too is under high numbers since months.
And I am living all this alone.
To me she is really special, she is really love of my life...
she has helped me a lot in my life,
so it is really hard.
thank you for your support, it is sweet.

 

But she is on a small dose and she is still young. Did you checked for acromegaly? What about ketones? When was she diagnosed? My Tačka was at the end of january 2016.

 

I think an acromegaly test would be a little premature at this point - Satina is only on a really small dose of insulin so far. It's something we wouldn't usually consider for a cat until it becomes clear that the cat needs a high dose of insulin.

 

saty is 13 years old.
she was diagnosed in december.
this morning first day of 1.5
after 6 hours....
432!
my god, she is really down, i feel so down too
thank you for sharing with me this

 

You see you still have time. She was diagnosed only 1 month earlier than Tač and you changed insulin in meantime. Go slowly up with the dose and listen to ladies on the forum and you will win...Tačka was down too and sometimes she still is but you should not give up because of that...not yet!
I see you are my neighbor Are you living near Slovenia?

 

Dear Piri!
I know how hard it is for you to watch your beloved Satina being ill but please try to be optimistic. She will get better, the first few months on insulin are terrible because her body is trying very hard to adapt to a new situation.
She will have her numbers up and down and you can't be sure what's happening but give it time and she will start reacting to insulin in a more predictable manner.
If you look at Rocky's SS you will see that he was giving me red and pink numbers for a long time and now he has been in blue/green!
So Piri - don't despair, give her and yourself more time and it will start improving.
I feel your frustration.
I'm thinking of you and Saty, praying for both of you.
Take care, you have support here and you are not on your own.
Marlena

 

Piri, I think you need to remember that you were giving 3 units of Caninsulin before you changed Satina to Lantus. When you changed to Lantus, you re-set the dosing back to 1 unit. But it is likely that you will need to increase gradually to fairly close to the same dose she was getting of Caninsulin before you see a good response. The reason for increasing slowly is so that Satina doesn't end up overdosed while you try to find the best dose of Lantus for her but that means it takes time to reach a dose she responds well to.

 

hope so.
but she seems not to respond...at all.
always over 400.
i keep lantus in the fridge,
don't shake it,
no carb,
this night fluids again, 60 ml,
thank you,
from both

 

she is not responding...yet! you are on a really small dose dont you forget. And when you were on Caninsulin she was responding. I see blue numbers. I know it is hard (see my theme i was really sad 2 hours ago) but we must not give up! I am in that all alone too (I have BF but he works a lot and all the measurements and testings are on me). You have all support here if you need it.

 

She will - once you reach the right dose. Patience is very important when dealing with feline diabetes. Take a look at Rosa's SS in my signature - you can see that it took her almost 2 weeks and 4 dose increases to respond to the insulin properly. But when she did - look how quickly her numbers started to look a whole lot better. I, too, had to do all the testing and shots. My husband was willing to help, but Rosa decided I was the only person who was allowed to test her BG. You can do this, but you have to give it time.

 

hope you are right.
really

 

thank you

 

Hi Piri,

I can really relate to the special bond you have with Sati. My Saoirse helped me through some very, very rough times and she's my world.

A couple of things:

1. Diabetes regulation does take time - Sati didn't become diabetic overnight and it will take a little time to find the right dose for her and for her body to then relearn how to run in normal, healthy numbers again. It's hard for us because we want our little ones to be better yesterday.

2. Sometimes with Lantus when the dose is increased it can temporarily result in high numbers - FDMB calls this phenomenon 'New Dose Wonkiness'.

Hang in there. Saoirse looked awful for a while during the early part of her treatment: she was very lethargic and out of sorts; she had lost weight; and then all her fur started falling out. She looked a mess and I was very sad and scared. But we persevered, we found a good dose, and not very long after that Saoirse started getting a little better every day; slowly at first, but then more and more positive changes started happening. I was amazed at how much the insulin helped her! Saoirse was 14 when she was diagnosed and she just turned 16 at the beginning of this month. Keeping fingers and paws crossed for Sati's insulin to help her the way it helped my Saoirse.




Mogs
.

 

Piri,
when you give your cat insulin it is a hormone that comes from outside( by you giving injection) and, at first I think confuses the cat's system. Your cat has been in high glucose numbers for sometime and all of a sudden there is a lot of insulin available and your cat's body need to get used to it.
That why we need to start slowly and, at first it's not going to work like that:
you give insulin - blood glucose drops.
Your cat's system will fight that lower glucose number which is different to what's the cat's system is used to (remember - high glucose).
It is a natural process and it is expected in the first few weeks or months of treatment.
After so many weeks, your cats body will get the message that insulin is dropping blood glucose slowly and it will react to this process in a more predictable manner.
It is important that you follow the advice from L/L members and absolutely vital that you test at expected nadir as per information from your group. Nadir is the lowest number of blood glucose after injecting insulin and it is a very important number.
This is a simple explanation, that whole process is more complicated then that but I thought that I put things simply so you can accept that what's happening to Satina at the moment is to be expected and we all went through this with our kitties!
So be optimistic and don't despair, it will start getting better.
Lots of love,
Marlena

 

Hi Piri,

Just dropping in to send some scritches to Sati and some to you.

Not any more; you're part of the FDMB family now! We're all here for you both, and we'll do everything we can to help you both and to give you as much reassurance as possible.



Mogs
.

 

How is Sati today?

 

sweet ladies,
satina today has been in pink.
updated ss

she is very weak in front legs, her problem is strange, she has kind of
fasciculations.
giving her meat, wondering if better to take only taurine supplement or felini complete.
waiting for dear suki to send me b vitamin,
what would you suggest?
i hug you
thankyou

 

Pink is better than red and black! you are on the right way. I dont know if your Satina have a neuropathy or something like that. Do you know if weakness is related to diabetes or not? Tačka have arthritis (she is 19!) which was a lot worse when she was in high numbers. I think i understand what you want to say with fasciculations. Something similar happens to Tačka sometimes but it is much better since we are in better numbers What your vet thinks about her legs?

 

she said neuropathy...
but it is strange, it is in anterior legs,
how did you understood it is arthritis?
in front legs too?
does she has kind of tremors?
she has when for example feels cold things, water food, my hands...
ciao

 

she has this for quite some time. Her front legs are little bit deformed. They are slightly in the x shape. Sometimes she has somethnig like tremors (i cant find word in english for that) but she is not sensitive on cold,water or something like that. She dont want to jump on higher things so we made her stairs and other things that help her if she want to go on higher things. For example: if she want to go in our bed she have footstool which ease jump for her. Acctually she dont need to jump she just step on the stool and than on the bed.