Scared to death

I posted a few weeks ago, and I'm still in the same boat, only worse.... My cat Lucky had been diagnosed in FEB. Given 2 u lantus, numbers still over 300 after 2 weeks, so vet increased to 3 u. I know this shouldn't have been done this way but it is what it is, he has been on 3 units for weeks now, and eats zero dry food. I'm home testing his numbers almost always in the 350 range. Yesterday I tested every few hours, 431, 323, 378 because I could tell he was not feeling well. In all the weeks of testing he never dropped below 250.
He ate at 9:45 this am, shot at 12 noon, just tested at 12:45, His BG 452, he is very lethargic. I don't know what to do, I live in a rural area, vet is closed today. How do I know if he is getting too much and bouncing, or if he is not getting enough? If anyone has any advice Thank you.

 

Im relatively new here and i dont know much but i can tell you that my cat was about 2-3 months in that numbers. The lowest number was about 300 at this time. She was diagnosed at the end of january. Now she is bouncing and going too low...Are you sure that he is lethargic because of FD?

 

I am new here as well and have no experience of lantus but is it possible to give a little more information so when someone who does can help. Does he appear hungry? Has he been drinking more than normal? What about using the litter box, is he passing more urine than normal? Does his breath have an odd smell? Have you been able to test his urine at all?

 

I am going to tag some people who may be able to help you
@Bobbie And Bubba @manxcat419 @Marje and Gracie

 

No not sure, he is normally interested in his surrondings, what I'm doing, now he hides and sleeps. Thanks for your input. Hope your kitty improves.

 

@Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey @julie & punkin (ga)

 

Is he acting sick? Not eating? Have you tested for ketones? Any possibility of an infection?

I don't usually offer advice on dosing. I haven't had a diabetic at in over eight years, and Maggie was on lev, not lantus. But I have to wonder if you started at too high a dose and Lucky is bouncing. BUT please wait and see if some people who currently use lantus post. I don't know enough anymore to be sure about what you should do.

PS: this a public forum. You may want to remove your phone number!

 

I have 4 kitties, I feed them on an average of every 5 hours, he always waits for his food, so yes he is hungry. Cleans his plate and everyone elses. He ate well this morning. No he is not drinking in excess as he was when first diagnosed. I have not noticed him in the litter at all. I do not test his urine, and I didn't notice any unusual smelling breath. I did find an emergency vet, (about 2 hours from me) ....the conversation I had with the receptionist , which she relayed to the vet and then back to me, is that he is not getting the insulin due to a possible underlying condition. how does one tell if he is bouncing from getting too much, or high numbers because hes not getting enough? Is it going to be a guessing game for the vet too? I'm trying to understand this but feel so overwhelmed. Thanks for all the input.

 

Thanks, will do

 

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you likely need to get your kitty to an emergency vet. I noticed you say you're rural. Is there any way you can drive to a vet? Or get a friend to come get you? With numbers that high, it seems prudent and on the safe side to get to a vet ER. Even if it is just a case of getting some fluids in it may be that he is dehydrated. If you grab the scruff of the neck and pull up like you would to inject and watch it fall, does it do so slowly? If it does, it may be a bit of dehydration. It would explain the lethargy.

 

Hi Cindy, if you can set up a spreadsheet, it will help us to see what is going on with Lucky. Are you testing before you give his injection?

 

Was he in lower numbers at some time?
You should make his spreadsheet that others can see what is happening. It is easy-i did it yesterday

 

fCindy, take a deep breath. We can help you figure this out. A cat whose numbers are high will often act lethargic and uninterested in what's going on around them. It doesn't mean anything more insidious is going on but it also doesn't mean there couldn't be another underlying issue. That said, I would recommend you get some Ketone strips to check Lucky's urine for ketones given his high readings.

The first thing that strikes me when I read your current and previous post is that you may not be feeding Lucky at shot time. The routine should be to get a pre-shot reading to make sure it's safe to give insulin, then feed and give insulin (you can give insulin while they eat as long as you are sure your cat is eating.) Food and insulin work together and your routine if not as above,could be having some influence on his readings.

Lantus works slowly so you won't see a huge sudden drop in numbers at any time in the 12 hours between shots in a regulated cat. That said large drops in an unregulated cat could happen if the dose of insulin was too high. And just to muddy the waters, you can also see a cat's readings go up if the dose of insulin is too high or if the cat is actually dropping low but you are not catching it and his natural defences are kicking in.

In order to help you sort out this puzzle, it would be very helpful if you would set up a spreadsheet. Instructions are HERE and if you have any problems, let us know and someone here will help you get it going. Without seeing what has been happening over the course of time, it's impossible for anyone here to give you advice about dosing.

 

One other thing, can we get you to remove the "911" prefix and change it to a "?" please. The 911 prefix is meant for use when the cat is imminent danger, ie. very low readings etc. and while there is obviously some urgency to your situation, it doesn't seem Lucky is in any immediate danger. Thanks.

 

Sorry I just now saw the tag.

It's hard to know what's going on. Linda's giving you some good advice (above). Are you seeing any other symptoms besides lethargy? Excessive drinking of water? When you say lethargy, is he limp or ?

Have you EVER had any blood sugar test less than 300? How often are you testing him, ie, have you seen one month's worth of tests 4x per day of over 300 or are you testing once a week? Just trying to get a more complete picture.

Get a spreadsheet going so we can see what the whole picture is. So his blood sugar is 452 right now? That's high, but high numbers don't usually cause lethargy unless the cat is underdosed. Without seeing more info, it's hard to know if he's underdosed or not.

If he doesn't perk up pretty quickly, I would think about the ER vet as well. It's just hard for us to know what's going on with just this amount of info.

 

Hi Cindy ~ I agree with Linda's post above. A SS with the test numbers would help us help you. Like Linda said, get a pre-shot test in always and as many more as you can through the cycle to help show how far and low the insulin is taking Lucky. The routine is test, feed, and shoot.

Also, you want to be feeding a low carb wet food 10% and under. Here is a link for a food chart that we use.

foodchart

Can you set up a signature like the rest of us with pertinent information which can also help us help you.

In the upper right corner of the screen, within the dark blue bar, you will see ID, Inbox, and Alerts

Click on your ID.

On the left, under Settings, Click on Signature.
This is where you will put information that helps us give you feedback. You are limited to 2 hard returns, so separate pieces by | or -.
This is where you paste the link for your spreadsheet, once it is set up.
Add any other text, such as
your name | cat's name | date of Dx (diagnosis) | insulin | meter
general location (city and state/province)
any other pertinent issues like if there are any food issues, history of DKA, hepatic lipidosis, pancreatitis, allergies, IBD, etc.
Click the Save Changes button at the bottom.

Always click the Save Changes button at the bottom when you have changed anything.

Here is an explanation of how to interpret the Spread Sheet SS, as it can look daunting but it's easy once you understand it.

AMPS is the AM Pre-shot test (always test before shooting to make sure they're high enough to give insulin)...then the U column is for "Units" (how much you gave)

The +1, +2, +3, etc are for how many hours since shooting...so +2 is 2 hours after the AM shot, +9 is 9 hour after, etc.....Since we're all over the world here, saying "he was at 148 at 8pm" doesn't tell us anything...we need to know how long since his last shot

At the end of a 12 hour cycle, it's PMPS time! (PM Pre-shot) and the whole thing starts over

Keep asking questions as that is how we learned. You have come to the right place for help. And Welcome!

 

Hi Cindy - hope you are feeling a bit better now. I have read your previous posts and it looks as though you have changed his food since diagnosis by removing dry food? It would be helpful when you set your spreadsheet up where the dose and food changes came in so the lantus users can have a think.
Have you checked him over for painful spots? Cats can get abscesses and show no symptoms other than a change in behaviour such as not wanting to be picked up, my boys have had a few over the years.

 

I checked his scruff, he is not dehydrated. Thank you.

 

If getting a spreadsheet going is overwhelming to you - it is to some people - just say so. We have people who will get it set up for you and turn it over so you just maintain it.

Punkin was a high dose cat, which means he had a condition which caused him to need more than the typical amounts of insulin. It's just impossible to know if that's your situation or if there is something else going on. It's not uncommon for high numbers to make a cat feel awful. We've had diabetic people say that it feels really bad sometimes. So it could just be that - but a little more info will help us help you.

Here were some questions from above - when there are lots of posts it can be easy to miss things:

Can you describe what else you are seeing? Excessive drinking of water? When you say lethargy, is he limp or ?

Edited after rereading your posts: I saw you said he has never been under 250 - so NO test at all under 250? The reason I'm asking is that low numbers - even not dangerously low, but anything lower than Lucky's body has become used to - low numbers can cause high numbers. If you've had tests at 250 and then the dose was increased by an entire unit, that can cause a cat to be overdosed, which can also cause high numbers.​

Let's get you going with a spreadsheet - it seems like people are harping on it, but all blood sugar tests matter in how long after the test they occur, and we look at least at the previous 3 days as well. Single tests, or even 2 days of tests, don't matter as much as the whole picture.

Would you like someone to start a spreadsheet for you?

Hang in there, Cindy. The beginning of this can be overwhelming, but stick with us and we will help you learn how to use Lantus with your little sweetheart.

 

Hi Cindy, how is Lucky doing?

 

How often are you giving Lantus, once a day or twice a day?

 

I'm glad Julie responded as I have company but I can do a spreadsheet for you...that only takes a few minutes as opposed to studying the info and making a recommendation.

If you'd like me to do a SS for you, please click on "Marje and Gracie" to the left and select "start a conversation".

 

Hi Everyone, thanks for all your help, and suggestions. I had to take a step away for a few days, I really thought this was beginning to be detrimental to my health. Here's an update. I did take Lucky to an emergency vet, she could not find anything else wrong with him, she did a CBC and his numbers were good although his BG remained high. Said I should contact his normal vet, as the lantus may need increased. I did that plus I contacted another vet for a second opinion. The new vet seemed to be a bit more informed. Told me as someone said above, to test before feeding, only feed a big meal at shot time which is every 12 hours, and to offer a "snack" in between. So Lucky now gets tested at 9:30 am, & 9:30 pm, then he eats a can of Fancy Feast. Then he gets his shot, either during his meal, or directly after. Does this sound right? The snack in between is 1/4 can of Fancy Feast, at 3:30 Pm, & 3:30 am. The new vet increased the Lantus to 4 units, and suggested I increase by .5 units each time I test and he is over 216. So I'm testing and he is over 216, so I increased from 4, to 4.25, now to 4.5. ( I actually didn't listen, I hated to jump an entire .5 as I believe it was here again, someone said don't increase too much too fast. So now he's at 4.5 and still running high numbers. The first day of the 4 u, I tested him at 255, I was thrilled, at 930 that night, he was 424. My heart sank. This am he was 388, tonight 378. Other info, the new vet had me catch his urine, glucose was over 1000. All other numbers are good, she also did a CBC, everything looks fine, BUN is up a bit, but that was the only thing abnormal. He was so active the day it was low, but now slowing down again. Not drinking to excess. Has not had any dry food since FEB. He lost about a pound, now weighing in a little over 14 #. I'm going to look at the link for setting up the spread sheet. I really do appreciate all the help here.

 

Cindy, Good to hear from you again. I hate to say it but it sounds like neither vet you've seen is well versed in using Lantus.

This is NOT how Lantus works. Lantus is what is called a "depot" insulin so it is necessary to build up the "depot" by staying at one dose for at least 3 days (6 twelve hour cycles) unless a reading of less than 50 on a human meter (68 on a pet meter) occurs in which case the dose would then be decreased. Sometimes the dose is held for 5-7 days. We also recommend making dose changes in 0.25u increments to be sure not to pass the ideal dose. And most importantly, dose is based on how low a particular dose takes the cat within a 12 hour period NOT on what the reading is before each shot.

Lucky was diagnosed in February and 4.5u of insulin is a higher dose than most cats need. You are still seeing high numbers which makes me think Lucky is bouncing. Bouncing happens when too much insulin is given and the cat's defences kick in to bring low BG levels back up to what the cat perceives is normal. When a cat has been diabetic for awhile, their body gets used to being higher numbers so giving too much insulin often looks like they need more when in fact they need less.

PLEASE DO NOT increase Lucky's insulin as it appears to be a very likely that Lucky's dose needs to be decreased. We really need you to get the spreadsheet set up ASAP so we can offer you some help figuring out what is going on with Lucky and getting Lucky feeling better. If you have any issues setting the spreadsheet up please do as Marje asked in post #22 above and private message her (by starting a conversation) to set up the spreadsheet for you.

It would be helpful if you could also provide the following information for Lucky including his age, breed, weight, date of diagnosis, any other health concerns, diet and what meter you are using to do his testing. You can put this information into a signature so it's always available when others are helping you. To set up a signature, click on your screen name in the upper right hand corner of the screen and click on "Signature". A box will open up and you can type this info into the box and hit the SAVE button. The signature only allows for 3 hard returns so you may need to use some creativity like separating info using "/" or "|" depending on how much info you include.

FYI, The slightly elevated BUN could be a result of the higher protein diet Lucky is now eating and not a concern if all other tests were normal.

We can help you figure this out and get Lucky on the road to better health but the spreadsheet is really needed to provide the assistance you need.

 

I just set up the signature with some info. I had more info but yes they limited. What is a hard return? I will look into the spread sheet, I had been charting daily, tesing once per day before the new vet said to test before each meal/shot.

 

Great job getting the signature set up. A hard return (I'm showing my age with that term ) means hitting the "enter" key to go to the next line.

If you were originally only testing once per day, when did you take that test? Before a shot or sometime after the shot? Testing before each shot is great but you also need to get some tests in the middle of the cycles both day and night. We need to figure out when the Lantus is taking Lucky to the lowest BG readings within the cycle and that usually occurs between +5 and +7 hours post shot. This low point is called the nadir and that is what the dose of Lantus is determined by. The pre-shot tests simply let you know it is safe to give the shot.

 

Thanks, well that shows you how long it's been since my last typing class. LOL Most of the time I tested was mid afternoon, between shot times. I have it all written down, just need to start that conversation, and learn the spreadsheet. I'm still learning to navigate this forum. I asked the vets ,both of them, about bouncing, they both thought this was not the case, because he only tested at 250 once, they thought if he were bouncing he would be high then low more often. One said, well you can increase to 4 units, or not. I said this is why I am so stressed and feel helpless. I feel as if no one knows what to do to thelp him. If I would have listened to vet #2 he may be up to 6 U by now.

 

Cindy, take a deep breathe and relax. You obviously are using your own instincts by not continuing to increase Lucky up to 6u and that is exactly what you need to do. You know your cat better than anyone else so you do what you are comfortable doing. What we can do to help, is help you learn about how Lantus works, how to use the spreadsheet data so that you understand what is happening and offer advice when you need it.

You are not the first person to come here with a story of vets who don't have a clue. Unfortunately, vets don't get much training on diabetes and many don't update their school knowledge over the years so your story is all too common around here. The other problem is that most vet practices just don't have that many diabetic patients so the amount of experience they have with it is minimal. This forum on the other hand is a group of laypersons who have amassed decades of hands on experience and believe me, it's worth it's weight in gold. I am a consummate skeptic of forums as a rule and I can tell you, the folks here are amazing. I have a rare cat with a rare condition that my vet admitted she has never dealt with. This is the one place there is any experience dealing with it!

We all arrived here stressed out, overwhelmed and scared. You are not helpless and you are doing your best. Lucky is lucky (no pun intended) to have you for his human. Very soon both you and Lucky will be feeling much better.

 

Sorry you are going through this. Hope you gets answers soon.

 

Cindy if you are still online, Marje is online right now so if you send her a PM (private message) she might get you going tonight. She's pretty quick at it!

 

I started a conversation with

Thanks, No I was not on line, I tried to get some sleep, but couldn't. Luckys number was 340 this am preshot, and I believe he is hitting the water bowl more. also is the schedule for feeding ok? and is it ok that he eats the Fancy Feast Classic? I have the DM but he doesn't eat it. "They" told me that's too bad if he gets hungry enough he will eat it. Thank you.

 

Trying to get some sleep was a good idea. I'm sorry you weren't successful. We'll have you feeling better about all this in no time and then those ZZZZ's might be a little easier to get!

The Fancy Feast is just fine as long as it's the Classics and not the chunks or gravy lover varieties. It is however a good idea to keep some of the gravy lover on hand just in case you ever need higher carb food to boost up Lucky's sugar levels. You can keep a few cans in your hypo kit.

The DM dry food is not the worst Rx food for carb load but it's far from ideal. No kibble is ideal as it contributes to dehydration. And being the parent of a kibble addict I can tell you that when some cats make up their minds they don't want to eat something, they won't eat no matter how hungry they are. If your vet's speculation held any water my cat would be eating her brother's Fancy Feast when she gets ravenously hungry!

Most of us spread our cat's food allowance over the course of the day/night. You can feed as often as you like. We all feed at pre-shot and most of us give snacks spread out in between. Just split the daily allowance according to the number of feedings with a slightly larger portion pre-shot AND make sure that you do not allow Lucky to eat for 2 hours prior to his pre-shot test. You want to get a pre-shot reading that is not food influenced to be sure it is safe to give the insulin.

 

The DM I have is Purina canned DM, and once I started my cats, I have 4, on all canned & removed dry, now no one will eat dry food. and yes I am using the classics, nothing shredded, chunky etc. Another question, how do I determine his daily allowance? Vet said feed only 2x a day, every 12 hours..with small snack, he needs to lose weight they said. I'm thinking his system must be a mess, to go from eating a little (half a can) every 5 hours to only eating every 12 hours, and eating ravenously (full can) then.

 

I understand what you feel Cyndy, went through this just last week-end. I don't leave in rural area but didn't have the money to send Small Kitty to ER care.

My knowledge on feline diabetic is quite limited, but I did lot's of reading. Small Kitty has had numbers like those you relating and it was found he had
urinary infection requiring treatment with antibiotic. After enduring these numbers for weeks, being told by my vet not to be concerned, I went with things
on hands. Ketone strips test are almost free and I was able to find these at the first drugstore. See around if you can get this and I can help getting you
set for testing. I'll be glad to help, it's very easy (testing and get urine sample).

Wish you'll find best support and advice and most importantly your cat full recovery.

Anything, chat wathever, dont hesitate, message me.

Sébastien

 

Thanks so much for your input, Lucky had his urine tested a few days ago, and all was well except glucose was over 1000. Recent CBC was basically normal too. I'm glad your kitty is doing well. This is very difficult. I will see more about checking his urine, once I figure out how to get my spread sheet up and running! Thank you for posting!

 

Cindy....if you want, I'd be happy to set up your spreadsheet for you.....Just click on my name and choose "Start Conversation" to send me a private message

 

That's so nice of you, Marje and Gracie set it up, but with all the stress I forgot my password for the FDMB. I chose the remember this on my computer and didn't write it down. I can't believe I did this!

 

If you're posting here, you must be signed in....LOL Do you mean you forgot your Google password for access to the spreadsheet?

 

Did the vet tell you what he thought Lucky's ideal weight is? You would base his caloric intake on ideal weight aiming to lose weight slowly. I personally think that until a cat is somewhat regulated, it's not ideal to be trying to reduce their food intake. Had Lucky lost weight since the diabetes started? If so I would certainly try to maintain his weight for now and not allow him to regain any of those extra pounds. But since he is still not regulated, he may well still be losing weight as a result of the diabetes. Cutting down on food at this stage could set him up for ketones or worse, DKA because an unregulated diabetic is unable to efficiently use the food they eat. This is what causes the ravenous appetite.

I'd feed Lucky several meals/snacks a day to try to keep him somewhat satisfied and not attempt weight loss right now. Do you have any idea how many calories he was taking in daily before or was he free feeding on the dry food? There is a formula to calculate caloric intake...13.6 times ideal weight in lbs. +70. If you use Lucky's current weight for now, or something between now and ideal weight, and calculate based on that, it should give you a starting point. I have found though that each cat is different and some need less, some more calories, based on their activity levels and to some extent, it a bit of a trial and error exercice.

 

You don't have to have your original password.....If you log out, when you try to log back in there's a place that says "forgot your password"....you enter your email and do the CAPTCHA verification and it'll send you a way to reset your password

You just have to ignore the fact that your password is already filled in for you and act like it wasn't

 

Chris & China is an AMAZING member, she ? he ? Helped me A LOT ! The're nice and helpful.
Spread sheet seemed to be a monumental task at first but it's not that bad. All you need is see how
to read previous numbers in your meeter. You probably already know that but meters have all the
dates / times of test with results. Using the push button you can browse through them. Just skip
the averages put the numbers on the first row in the excel spread sheet that says : AM..
Then +1;2 3 ... are for hours between doses. PM is for the evening numbers, same principle.
After a couple of entry you'll do it with one hand on your back; with someone else holding the meter for you.

Keep the faith, we're with you.

Sébastien

 

Just to clarify....Chris is short for Christine....so I'm a she

 

I reset, I'm good to go Thanks

 

Apologize for missing this Lantus 2 x daily, every 12 hours.

 

Thank you, I hope to start it asap!! LOL I Hope you are right!!

 

Great job with the spreadsheet!!

It's really important to get tests on the PM cycle too though....Most cats go lower at night, so grabbing a "before bed" test is always the best idea. It can tell you a lot...especially if it's safe for you to go to sleep or if you might want to set an alarm to get another test in later on in the cycle

Welcome to the world of sleep deprivation....LOL

 

Cindy, you've got a good start on the spreadsheet. Now all we need you to do is start filling in some of the gaps in info like some night cycle tests as Chris mentioned. Please always do pre-shot tests and any time it's possible, try to get a test in somewhere between +5 and +8 hours (do a different time each day). I know you have some readings mid cycle but many are missing pre-shot data to see how much effect the insulin is having. Lantus is dosed based on the lowest readings at a dose but you need those pre-shot numbers too in order to determine if he is bouncing from a dose change (normal), bouncing from too much insulin or needs more. I'd also hold a dose for at least 3 days and possibly 5 to see how it's working. Some cats adjust to new doses quicker than others. And dose adjustments are best done at 0.25u or at most 0.5u at a time.

You were considering lowering the dose and I noticed there is no dose marked in for the night cycles since the 1st of May. Did you give him insulin and if so, what dose? As you get a little more data, it will become clearer what is happening with Lucky.

 

HI, I know I left out a few things, I went back through and tried to fill in the blanks. He gets his shots at 930 am, 930 PM, should I do the pre shot at 930, right before shot, and then again possibly at midnight? The "before bed" test?

 

Cindy, you can set up your own schedule.....whatever works for you. Because we live all over the planet we only deal with pre-shot and +X hours post shot in terms of times. If you usually give insulin at 9:30 then you can test at 9:15, feed Lucky and then shoot or you can do what I do which is test at what would be your 9:25, put the food down and shoot while Lucky is eating. All you need to do is make sure your pre-shot is at least 2 hours post any meals or snacks. Getting a test at +3 is usually a good indicator of how the cycle is going to be...active the +3 will be down from pre-shot and you may need to set an alarm to get another test in to keep kitty safe, flat or inactive cycle the +3 post shot is usually the same or up and you can go enjoy your ZZZZZs. You need to find a schedule that works for you so that you aren't sleep deprived waiting to test Lucky but can get the tests in that will provide you the most critical data. In my mind, knowing my kitty is safe through the night is the best way to insure I can get a good night's sleep.

 

hi there, well, to be honest I really didn't know or understand how I was to be checking him. At first I thought once a day was fine. As that's when the vet tested him, the mid point between shots. I'm trying to sort it all out, remember everything, and do the best I can for Lucky. Its very confusing, as I have one vet telling me to feed every 12 hours, another saying feed when you want. One Vet says increase by .5 units, and one increased by an entire unit! My mind feels like its in a whirlwind!! I'm not making excuses simply trying to learn as much as I can and try my best with the info I'm receiving, which is conflicting. On another note, I'm not returning to the vet I visited for the second opinion. The one that wants me to increase by .5 every time I test and he's over 216. However, I did decrease his insulin last night to 3.5, as he wasn't acting himself the past few days. Probably wasn't the correct thing to do, but I will keep him on the 3.5 now for a while, vet says 2 weeks? and see how his numbers look. He actually looks better today, but I'm driving myself crazy, is that because he was getting 4u and that's what he needs, and I didn't give it time?? ugh, and to answer your question, yes I did dose, I have never missed, I think I was simply tired last night and overlooked, I tried to fill in more today. I'm trying hard not to throw in the towel, and I appreciate all the help from you all here on the forum. I seriously don't know what I would be doing now at this point in time, but I'm praying there's light now at the end of the tunnel with all the help we are receiving here. Thanks!!

 

Cindy, take a deep deep breathe. This is all hard to wrap your head around in the beginning but you can do it. The first step is for you to convince yourself you can do it and of that I have no doubt! Let's do this with baby steps! You don't need to put so much pressure on yourself. You have all the support you need here!
Leave Lucky at 3.5 u for now, keep updating your spreadsheet as you get tests and give shots and find a schedule you can work with comfortably. Then, we will look at the data and decide what the next steps are. Don't second guess yourself. You know when Lucky is not acting himself. The vet doesn't. Neither do we. We can guide you and offer suggestions based on our experience and the data and information re: how Lucky is acting to help you look after Lucky in the safest way possible. For what it's worth, I think you made a good decision to lower the dose. The question now is, does it need to be lowered more and more data will allow us to help to make that decision.

 

You don't know how good your message makes me feel! One day at a time right? Bless you all for the time and concern, you put in here helping people.

 

Hi Cindy,

Saoirse and myself went through a hellish time recently. I was frightened, exhausted and utterly overwhelmed and one of our members, Shane (@granadilla), shared with me a little saying she had when it was tough going with her kitty, Marshmallow; it helped me to keep going through the roughest of times and I'd like to pass it on to you now. Even if one day at a time seems too much try thinking of yourself and Lucky stepping forward together, a little bit at a time:

One foot; one paw.




Mogs
.

 

Thank you! Great words of wisdom, we will proceed together, my buddy and I. I will be with him through it all.

 

Hi Cindy,

Very good to hear from you! Hope you're feeling a little bit better now - and not so alone with everything.

I've just had a gander at Lucky's spreadsheet and I'm tagging @Chris & China to ask whether she might also have a look to see whether she might have some helpful suggestions for you on the Lantus side of things.


Mogs
.

 

Hi Cindy!!

Could you please try to get at least a "before bed" test on the PM cycle? You don't necessarily have to stay up all night...just grab a quick test before you go to bed (or if you're like most of us and have to get up in the middle of the night to visit the "facilities", maybe you could grab a test then?)

Most cats go lower at night and without getting at least that one test in on the PM cycle, you could miss some really important information on what might be going on with Lucky

Also, I don't know your daytime schedule, but if you can, it'd help to get some tests in at different times on the AM cycle.

Think of the spreadsheet like it's a puzzle....if the only pieces you have filled in are along the edges or down the middle, it's really hard to tell what the picture is....but if you have pieces sprinkled throughout, the picture becomes a lot clearer!

 

@Chris & China -

Thanks for popping in, Chris.


Mogs
.

 

Hi there, he looks like he's still staying pretty high. I'm going to throw this in the mix, the vet phoned that the glucose in his urine is still 1000. I'm not sure what exactly that means, and if its going to make me crazy with worry, I may not want to know, but I need to know what to do to get it lower. do you think it's time to increase the Lantus yet? and do you think hes bouncing? as he's never really been lower than 250 (to my knowledge) in all this time, and that was only a couple of times. Yes I will get a reading tonight. Look for it in the morning!
Other thoughts, hes not drinking to excess, but still peeing large puddles. He's ravenous, his feedings at shot time consist of an entire can of fancy feast, he would eat 2 if I offered. the snack at 330 pm, is 1/4 can of Fancy feast. too much? too little? should he be eating more in between shots instead of only once?
sorry for all the questions, again, Vet did not advise on feeding at all, and this is the schedule the "second opinion" vet gave me. want to make sure this is correct, as I was doing so much wrong in the beginning.
thank you!! have a good nihgt ladies!

 

Without seeing a few more mid-cycle tests (Or consistent PM "before bed" tests) it's really hard to know if it's time to increase yet or not

Hopefully you'll be able to get that test in tonight (and if at all possible, maybe a test somewhere between +5 and +7 on the AM cycle?)

Lantus dosing is based on how LOW it takes them, not the pre-shot numbers, so it really is important to get those tests when you can. I know we seem to harp on it a lot, but it's truly the only way to know what the best advice to give you is.

The high glucose in his urine just means that he's still above renal threshold...His kidneys can't handle all the glucose so it gets dumped into the urine.

I'd also like to invite you over to the Lantus Forum. Everyone there uses Lantus or Levemir so you'll get the most experienced eyes advising you and Lucky! Each day we start a new thread with the date/cats name and the AMPS number in the subject line. As the day goes on, if you get other tests in, you "edit" the subject line and add them (If you look in the lantus forum, you'll see how we do this)

In the body of the post you'd first put the link to the previous post (so it's easy for people to quickly go back and see what's been going on for the last few days) and then ask any questions as well as just let us know how Lucky is doing in general.

I hope to see you there!!

 

Good Morning ladies!
Well I'm having a bad morning. Luckys amps was 442 today. I started feeding him a little more than usual. He was on this "diet". I'm going to try to explain it better.
Below is the following schedule had had been on for a few weeks:

900 to 930 am~~ test, eats 1 can Fancy feast pate (can be any variety) always cleans his plate, plus cleans up anything any of the other 3 leave
930 am~~shot 3.5 U
330 pm~~test most days, snack...eats 1/4 can of FF
900 to 930 pm~~test, eats 1 can of FF
930 pm~~shot 3.5U
random times after midnight, snack...eats 1/4 can of FF

Lately I was wondering about that feeding schedule as he seems ravenous, I kept wondering if it was good to let him go so long without food, that's a 6 hour period with nothing. So I asked around, and I decided to add another snack in the middle of the night, because we can't seem to get much sleep around here these days. Since doing that, Luckys numbers have been in the red zone. The BG after midnight was pre 2nd snack and 4+ after shot and was 416.
I don't know what to do, the vet says go to 4 units, I'm still wondering if this is too much? when he was tested in March, he was 300, the insulin increased and I feel like for the average his numbers increased.

I'm almost in that panic mode again, wondering what in the heck do I do, I favored a bit below the 3.5 line this morning.
I wonder if I can keep doing this???
Thanks for listening.

 

Oh Cindy,
how terribly stressful this is for you.
I was like that at the beginning and I thought I was going insane!
Some cats are slow and difficult to regulate but you will get there with help of wonderful people on L/L forum.
Looke at my Rocky's SS - terrible for a long time and I didn't know what was going on.
Suddenly he started giving me better numbers and now he is well regulated.
L/L forum has a lot of experienced people, just stay calm and follow the advice, you will get there.
Wishing you best luck
Hugs from Marlena & Rocky

 

Thank so much!! I hope we are as fortunate as you and Rocky! I will check out his spread sheet. I think what I need most is a feeding schedule that is helpful to him. I must be wreaking havoc on his pancreas. I, like you, feel like I'm going insane, we have a few decent days, then this. Again thank you for your kind words and encouragement!

 

Hey chris, I figured out how to edit the subject line, but I don't know how to add the link from my first post there in the lantus forum. LMk when you have time. thank you!!

 

"Copy" the link from the address bar (like where you put "www.yahoo.com") when you're looking at your prior days post

Go to a new post and click on the little icon along the top that looks like a paper clip (or a single link of a chain) and a new box will pop up. "Paste" the link in that box and hit "insert"