science diet wet versus fancy feast

Hello, all,
I have a 7 year old kitty named Sammie who has diabetes. Im struggling with feeding issues and Im hoping someone can help. I have a multi cat home with several senior kitties. I have to free feed or my seniors dont eat so everyone eats Nutro senior including Sammie. I was feeding Sammie 2 cans of fancy feast a day and 4.5 units of Vetsulin twice a day and he was doing okay. His sugars ranged from 30-300 but my vet was okay with that. I had to start feeding my senior kitty wet food to keep his weight on so I switched Sammie and Pumpkin (the 16 year old) to Science senior wet food and Sammie now has diarrhea daily. I'm wondering if this will resolve or should I go back to fancy feast for both of them? I just switched to PZI when they recalled Vetsulin so have not done a curve yet on Sammie. Sammie used to be a sweet kitty who loved people and tolerated my other cats. He was a bottle feed who multiple health problems and spent a lot of time in isolation. Now he picks fights with most of my cats and will urinate and defecate outside of the box. Has anyone else seen personality changes like this? He does not have a UTI and is otherwise healthy. I put him on Amitriptyline and that helps some but he's just gets so agitated and hyper most of the time now. The only time he seems to calm down and act like a "normal cat" is when his blood sugar drops below 100. Sorry this is so long - Im just not sure what to do with my boy. I would appreciate any help or suggestions. Thanks

 

Ok, so I see a couple of issues here besides your food question, but we'll start with food

1. science diet vs fancy feast wet - which one? there are a lot of varieties and some are better than others. to determine which food is 'better', look at the ingredients label to see whether biproducts or actual meat is high on the list, look for fillers like corn or rice, and look at Janet's charts to see the % of calories from protein/carbs/fats.

2. insulin - ranging from 300 to 30 is not good, as 30 is in hypo range. And factoring in the fact that stress at the clinic may skew the blood glucose readings, you really don't know that 4.5 units twice a day of vetsulin was what he needed. Now that you've switched insulins, what dose are you giving? Are you getting any blood glucose readings prior to shot time or inbetween?

3. testing - if you are having problems testing, please tell us more so that we can help as it will absolutely improve your ability to treat.

4. diahrea after food change can happen...but why did you switch foods? you can feed both fancy feast.

5. amount of food - was 2 cans of fancy feast enough for Sammie to maintain his weight and not show signs of hunger?

6. Sammie's behaviour tells me he doesn't feel good. So put him back on the food he likes, get better at hometesting and get him on the right dose and he SHOULD go back to being the boy you knew and loved, and will get along better with the others.

I know you are flustered; you have to break it down into pieces and address things in a methodical manner...and perhaps get some local help from one of us as well!

Jen

 

I also second everything Jen said. We need some more info on the science diet food you are feeding. Diabetics need foods that are 10% or less in carbs. You can find this info on Janet & Binky's food charts.

It sounds like to me that your kitty is going through chronic rebound. But there is no way to know for sure unless you are hometesting. Bad litter box habits usually coincide with high glucose levels for us. If he had recently been in hypo range, the liver panics and pumps out lots of glucose into the system in order to protect itself. If you keep giving too high of a dose without knowing it, you are inadvertently sending him on a see-saw of hypo and high numbers.

 

All of the Science Diet canned list on Binky's chart, except for one, are too high carb for a diabetic. They're in the 20+ carb range :-Q One variety is just 9% carbs but is it fish-based and you shouldn't feed fish every day. http://binkyspage.tripod.com/CanFoodNew.html

 

I feed Blackie Fancy Feast Turkey & Giblets, which is 3.9% in carbs. It has meat listed as the first ingredient.

I also second what the others said. I hope that you can get Sammie settled down soon. Crossing fingers and paws in Texas!

 

Thanks so much for the advice. I have stopped the Science Diet. It was the active maturity beef and turkey. I was feeding the fancy feast ( I had read the food chart and bought the right ones) originally but had switched to SD because my senior kitty was having diarrhea from the fancy feast. It never entered my mind that SD would be so bad for Sammie! I feel so bad about that! I do my own glucose curve at home because he is terrified at the vet office. I just switched to PZI 2 weeks ago when the Vetsulin was discontinued and my vet said continue the same dose. I plan to do a glucose curve in a week or two once he has been on the fancy feast for awhile. I was thinking 3-4 cans daily? He's not an obese cat- he's always been very thin and currently weighs 8 lbs. I have to free feed my others or they won't get enough food, so I'm hoping if I can keep Sammie full, he won't go to the dry. Would it be better to stay with one flavor of the fancy feast or can I feed a variety (from the list, of course)? Do you feed at the same time you dose or before/after? Last night, I dosed and fed him at 730 pm and his bs at 10pm was 340. This am, he was 450 at 7am so I have a ways to go. Thanks so much for the help/advice. It really is wonderful to have this resource.

 

Try to base what you feed on calories rather than volume. The calories per can are listed on J&B's list as well. Most cats nee 20 to 30 calories per pound per day, minimum calories are 15 per pound of ideal weight, less than this can cause health problems. Tess is about 9 lbs and gets 180 to 270 kcal/day, that would be 2 to a little less than 3 cans of FF. It depends on the calories in the food and if your cat is overweight, underweight or just right. If Sammi is only 8 lbs and very thin, he may need to gain a little weight. You should be able to see a waist behind the ribs, and just be able to feel the ribs with the flat of your hand. The ribs should not be obvious, nor should the spine be prominent. If so your cat is underweight.

Some cats like the same thing every day, some like variety, some like one thing until you stock up and then change their minds! ohmygod_smile Many of us feed as we are shooting, it keep them occupied and they don't fidget for the shot. Several smaller meals may help too, that's how cats normally eat. It's a lot more work for you though.

 

I don't see above that anyone has mentioned this.

I bought some Science Diet for Pauline. She is CRF and Science Diet is lower
on phosphorous.

She REFUSES to eat the stuff. It really looks awful in the can also...I would refuse it too.

 

A few points:

• -- If they won't eat it, it won't do them any good.
  -- If the cat is FD as well as CRF, the Hills low phos diets are way high in carbs!
  -- Phoss. binders can be added to wet food and/or replace some of the protein w/ cooked egg whites, a good low phos animal protein