Shaak's first shot given.

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA), Feb 3, 2016.

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  1. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    if my cat is allowed to eat up to 5/8 of a cup of food every day then I divide that up to 2.5/8 of a cup for each meal, how much of it should she have to finish in order for me to give her the injection would you think?

    She weighs 11.2 lbs and takes one unit of insulin 2 times a day.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2016
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  2. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Cathie, I was posting about this on your other thread when you started this post. Hopefully someone else will chime in but getting a response may be difficult because 99.9% of the cats here are on wet food so volumes of kibble is not something commonly needed or considered. Please see my other note but based on my experience with my girl, I seriously think you may have to split the food in half and see how much Shaak will eat in one sitting and go with that amount. I'm betting she won't eat 2.5/8 of cup in one sitting.
     
  3. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

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    For N I would have her finish all of each meal before injecting. Leaving a little would be fine too.
     
  4. Ken & Tara

    Ken & Tara Member

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    That sounds like a very interesting technique. Instead of using volumes, why not use weights and the metric system? Electronic scales are inexpensive. The most common cooking scale has a readability of 1 gram (g), but you can also obtain them with readabilities of 1/10 g, 1/100 g, and even 1/1000 g. It's useful to know the weights of your dishes in advance, but not absolutely essential. You would also need a calculator, unless you have your spreadsheet within easy reach.

    In thinking about this, you could weigh out any food, then weigh what they didn't finish, subtracting the latter from the former, and you'd know the weight of food they actually consumed. I guess it would be a little complicated when they would eat wet food and dry food, because there'd also be a ratio between those two. I wonder if this technique would be more trouble than it's worth? It would be another set of data points to track. Cats tend to be creatures of habit.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2016
  5. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    Since Novolin is a harsher insulin you want to have as much food on board as possible, to buffer the steep drop so common early in the cycle. If my guy finishes half or more of his meal I will go ahead and shoot, but he's been on insulin for over 6 months and I've learned how his system handles it. Also, don't know about amounts of kibble since mine eats canned and raw. I would imagine the kibble digests slower so he may need to eat more prior to his shot, to stay safe.
     
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  6. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    Interesting idea but I'm not sure it needs to be quite that precise and as you say it might be more trouble than it's worth and would get complicated if and when wet food can be introduced.
     
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  7. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    @Ken & Tara -

    When making the switchover from all dry to all wet food I did all the weighing you describe above (in grammes) so that I could learn how much to feed Saoirse - I didn't have a clue. It was also invaluable to keep a log with that level of detail when I had to nurse her through a bad pancreatitis flare both in terms of ensuring she was getting enough nutrition every day and also to have as a record to refer back to when her symptoms have worsened at times since then so I know what helped her in the past. It would also be helpful to maintain a detailed log if moving to a homemade diet, again to gauge how much to feed to reach/maintain ideal weight.


    Mogs
    .
     
  8. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    thank you all. great information for me. Having a rough start, can't even get blood to check, poked poor girl 4 times and no blood. Warmed and rubbed ear and everything. Highest poke setting as well. I have called a member here in town and we are going to try to get together. I was so nervous about the injection, right now I think she will be fine with pokes and injection, she barely got upset at all when I poked her the four times. Main issue is to get blood so can get a bg level and then inject at appropriate time, which will be tonight, rather than now, too late past eating to give injection now and don't want to give insulin until I have a base bg level to go by.
     
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  9. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    You are well on your way! Baby steps! Kitty ears bleed better with time so this will get so much easier. Good to hear Shaak was being very tolerant about the testing despite multiple attempts.:cat: Marje will be able to give you lots of tips and tricks. You are in good hands. :)
     
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  10. Julia & Bandit (GA)

    Julia & Bandit (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Hi Cathie! I'm a huge Star Wars fan, so I love your kitty's name! I even have a little Shaak Ti lego figure on my keychain! I'm also a big fan of Ahsoka Tano. :)

    Just in case you hadn't seen this yet, I wanted to share this document with you: http://catinfo.org/docs/TipsForTransitioning1-14-11.pdf
    Some cats are very stubborn, and there are a few that refuse to transition despite all efforts, but it's certainly worth the work to try and get them off the dry food. However, it's very important you don't attempt any food changes until you're comfortable with home testing, because a change in the diet can cause blood glucose levels to drop several hundred points, making the current insulin dose too high. Novolin is an especially harsh and potentially dangerous insulin in this regard, which is why it's not recommended for cats.

    You're doing a great job so far learning how to home test! It's a bit of a struggle at first, but once you get the hang of it, it will be second nature. :)
     
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  11. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    When feeding very frequent, tiny meals (e.g. during an IBD/pancreatitis flare) working in grammes is extremely helpful. For example, some of Saoirse's meals were only 8g when I was feeding her hourly round the clock. That said, when you have worked out how much to feed it's then helpful for some food types to work out how many grammes there are in, say, a tablespoonful 'cause it makes it quicker and easier to measure out food on a day-to-day basis.


    Mogs
    .
     
  12. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    I never thought about it that way but then I have thankfully never had to deal with pancreatitis (antijinx) where this would obviously be a far more critical to avoid overloading the system. I really was just thinking in terms of whether Shaak got enough food on board for her shot and in that case I didn't think a tiny bit here or there would have a big impact but I could be wrong. And then there is the fact that I am dealing with a kibble addict so if worse comes to worse, I can just count kibble bits! :woot::banghead: (trying to keep my sense of humour about our food situation here!)
     
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  13. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    :) thank you. Marje came over and stayed and helped me learn some things for a couple of hours today. She was so wonderful and Shaak really liked her a lot. I think I am ready for tonight and my first lone draw and injection.

    There was a bit of a crazy moment when Marje did Shaak's first BG, it was 162 which raised an interesting flag since she had not had any insulin yet and yesterday at the vet Shaak's BG was 614. Marje got her meter and rechecked and it was 375. So while the lower number was a happy thing it turned out to not be accurate. She suggested I get a different meter. I had gotten it at Wal-greens and she suggested the reli-on micro at Wal-Mart, so I did that and now just waiting till tonight after feeding. Shaak did eat all of her morning meal so I have high hopes she will eat most of the evening one as well.
     
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  14. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    So glad you Marje was able to help you out. What's the name of the meter that gave the low reading? Did you retest to make sure it wasn't a bad strip? That's a huge difference that would be dangerous for man or cat!
     
  15. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    it was the Wal-Greens TrueResult meter. We did not attempt another draw with that meter. I am going to see if they will take the other one back, even though I used it, I guess I could take a reading with it again just to be sure before I contact Wal-Greens. Yes, definitely a huge difference. I was entertaining thoughts that Shaak had regulated overnight with her diet change. I have always loved fantasy.:woot:o_O:oops:
     
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  16. MrWorfMen's Mom

    MrWorfMen's Mom Well-Known Member

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    We all love those fantasies but that's all they are! I read somewhere on this board that meters with "true" in the name have a reputation of reading really low so I guess that pretty much proves it! I'm amazed that they can get away with that kind of a variance though.
     
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  17. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I am so glad I had someone with knowledge to help me out, I could have been in a mess if I had not had someone there to guide me.
     
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  18. Andy & Pimp

    Andy & Pimp Well-Known Member

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    That's so awesome that Marje was able to help you today! Learning to test was the most frustrating part for me. Good catch on the meter!
    It is doubtful that any store will accept return of a blood-related product. I think you'll have to contact the manufacturer, which you should find info for on the packaging. If you tell them how far off it is from your other meter there's a good chance they'll send you a refund. Tip: don't mention that you're using it for a pet.
     
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  19. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    You are right on all those ideas. Thank you for advice.
     
  20. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    I'd keep it simple at this stage. You don't need to make this any harder than it already can be. Once you've settled into testing and shooting, you can think about how much food is how many calories and how much to feed when. But right now, just be sure she has plenty of food on board before shooting but not so full that she won't eat later if you need her to.

    The other thing with the Walgreens meter is it requires a much larger sample than the Micro.
     
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  21. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    okay, shot given. the only thing I forgot was to keep the plunger pressed down hard after I inserted the needle. Then when pulled the needle out I pushed the plunger to see if I got it all and there was a tiny drop that poked out (teetiny). I really feel it was very successful though. She did not get upset at all, she was very relaxed Now can relax for the next 2 hours and then take next draw. I am going to do some reading about BG testing right now. Will check back in a little while to see if anyone is as happy for Shaak and me as I am.
     
  22. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    image.png

    Great job!!! Of course we are all happy with and for you and Shaak!! Don't worry about the plunger...it is what it is for tonight. Good luck with the +2 test! It should be two hours after the shot...not two hours after you fed prior to the shot, k?
     
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  23. Katie & Dinah

    Katie & Dinah New Member

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    Well done Cathie!
     
  24. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    gotcha, two hours after shot.
     
  25. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    is there a link for the food chart to pick out a suitable dry and wet emergency food for Hypo. No, don't need it, I just want to have it. I may have already received a link for it but I can't seem to find it. I have chart for low carb foods, just not emergency hypo foods.
     
  26. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    I am headed to bed, Cathie. If you need help, post first on Health and if no one is up, go to the Lantus/levemir forum and post there for help. Anyone with experience can help you deal with low numbers no matter the insulin.

    Here's some info from the primer Andy linked for you:

    If she drops more than 100 by +2, I'd check hourly until she heads up which would hopefully be by +5 or +6. If she doesn't drop much by +2, maybe set an alarm and check her at +4 or +5. Of course,mid anyone with N experience comes on tonight and gives you other suggestions, I'd follow them.

    In the morning, if you get a 200 at preshot, don't shoot. Post here. If you get between 200 and 300, and if you can test as suggested in the quote above, I'd shoot and get the data to identify her nadir (lowest number of the cycle).

    Sound good?
     
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  27. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    I sent it to you in a PM. Sorry...did it 30 mins ago and thought I hit "post" but didn't.

    Pls be sure and read my post to you above this one. I'll check back in ten minutes to see if you have any questions.
     
  28. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    are you saying if it drops more than 100 points from the PMPS or if it drops below 100 on the meter? Other than that I got it.
     
  29. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    100 points from PMPS. So if she drops to 225 by +2.

    You might find later...as you get more data...that 100 mg/dL is not a big deal for her but since we don't know, we need to be safe.
     
  30. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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  31. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    I hope it's a quiet night.
     
  32. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    have a good night.
     
  33. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    Thanks!!! We will check in tomorrow.
     
  34. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Hi all, just did 2+ it was 194. So the plan is to check in one hour.
     
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  35. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    actually she dropped from 325 to 194 for a difference of 131, so should I retest sooner than one hour?
     
  36. Andy & Pimp

    Andy & Pimp Well-Known Member

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    You can test sooner than an hour if you'd like, I certainly wouldn't wait any longer than 1 hour.

    I will be awake and checking in every 30 minutes or so :)

    Make sure you post if you need anything
     
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  37. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

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    Andy, I'm out of here for the night in a few minutes, but I just noticed Katie and Dinah's thread. I took a look at Dinah's spreadsheet and noticed she'd given a 47 at her +2. I've commented on her post, but would you be able to take a look in on it to see if she gets back with any more numbers please...I'm a little concerned at Dinah going low so early in the cycle, although I know she's on one of the insulins that usually hits hard and fast. Thread is here http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/need-help-regulating-dinah.152082/

    @Cathie and Shaak Ti - sorry to hijack your thread. I just want to make sure no-one gets missed if there are cats running a little low tonight.
     
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  38. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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  39. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I just want to have my ducks all in a row. At what BG would I need to give Shaak emergency hypo food if she ever does fall drastically?
     
  40. Andy & Pimp

    Andy & Pimp Well-Known Member

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    For right now, I think we would like to keep her over 100. She will be safe all the way down to 50 or lower, but we try to stay away from there with new kitties
     
  41. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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  42. Andy & Pimp

    Andy & Pimp Well-Known Member

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    That's great! Can you make it 1 more hour?
     
  43. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    yep, glad you seem calm, I was stressing.
     
  44. Andy & Pimp

    Andy & Pimp Well-Known Member

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    understandable! I was so worried about Pimp when he got his first injection! I didn't have a meter to home test yet, the vet gave me his cell phone number and said "call me if he starts acting funny". Talk about nervous!
     
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  45. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I can't imagine what that must have been like.
     
  46. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    another question, if BG went down to 50 I know to rub some karo on her gums, then food, how much food?
     
  47. Andy & Pimp

    Andy & Pimp Well-Known Member

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    50 is still pretty safe, just not for new kitties or those eating dry food. My non diabetic cat routinely test around 45 to 50.

    That said if you get a number too low, -you want to keep Shaak over 90 since she eats kibble- you will feed a small amount of gravy from high carb food, no more than one or two teaspoons. Depending how low you may want to add karo or another simple sugar. The process then is to test every 20 minutes and continue feeding small amounts until sugars raise the back to an acceptable level
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2016
    Reason for edit: typo
  48. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    +4 190 so she has already going back up 47. The thread about Novolin said you could hit your low BG between 2 and 6 hours. So normal to hit low at +3 I guess, but I also guess she should have gone lower. Guess my worry should be the other way, she didn't go low enough.
     
  49. Andy & Pimp

    Andy & Pimp Well-Known Member

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    It's ok, it will take some time to get her dose dialed in. You did great tonight!

    Get some sleep and we'll see you in the morning, if preshot test is under 300 tomorrow morning make sure to start a new thread and ask for help.
     
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  50. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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  51. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    Awesome job last night! Thank you so much @Andy & Pimp for walking Cathie through it. Great job testing, Cathie! [​IMG]

    Quite a response to the first shot. :)

    Cathie...i think we found another member who has some N experience and I'm going to PM her today to see if she can help out with any dosing or give you some info about N and what you should be looking for.
     
  52. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    that sounds awesome.
     
  53. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    Have you tested this morning yet?
     
  54. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    no, supposed to test her in about 15 minutes. Gonna start a couple of minutes early to allow for it taking a while though. so will start in 10 minutes.
     
  55. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    Sounds good. I'm around.
     
  56. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    I am!

    [​IMG]


    Mogs
    .
     
  57. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Glad to know I'm not the only one who does that ... :oops:

    :D
     
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  58. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I took her AMPS all by myself. My son sat next to me but I did it all alone. It was 356. I am hoping Shaak will enjoy the fact that she gets food right after her AMPS and be more willing in the mornings to get started. She has always known her eating times really well, she always starts to hang out at the food dish about thirty minutes before feeding time.
     
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  59. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    Fantastic!!!!! Really great job doing it by yourself!!!

    If you are home today, it might be a really good idea to test every hour and run that curve so you can see if she's going to have a specific pattern on N. I don't know if it is more likely to have generally the same nadir, etc, every cycle or if the onset usually starts about the same time or not.

    I've asked @Sue and Oliver (GA) to pop in and she said she can help. She has a lot of experience with PZI and ProZinc and says the action of the insulins are similar.
     
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  60. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I will not be able to be home for +1 but I will be here from +2 to +5 and then back home by +7.5. I would have Braiden skip his Cal class but he has a quiz and I don't want to keep him from taking the test and there is not enough time between classes for him to take a bus from his last class at downtown campus to his Cal class at NW campus. So I know it is a crucial time to miss +6 but I can't see any way around it.

    Braiden has a driver's license but insurance for under 25 yrs old is more than anyone can afford these days, so he can't take the car by himself, I wish he could.
     
  61. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Thank you! Felt pretty great about it myself, good enough to have a :coffee: and relax for an hour.
     
  62. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    And quite rightly so! :D

    .
     
  63. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    :bighug:
     
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  64. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for all you did for me through the night, I am forever grateful. It was so good to not be alone.
     
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  65. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    I think with where she is, a +2 through +5 test will work but, from last night, she is probsbly onsetting by +1.
     
  66. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    great to hear. I am giving shot now
     
  67. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Just gave shot, will test at +2.
     
  68. Andy & Pimp

    Andy & Pimp Well-Known Member

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    You're welcome Cathie:) Just paying it forward...you'll be helping a new member on their first day before long;)
     
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  69. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    seems impossible to happen, but I will hope to learn enough to be able to do that.
     
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  70. Andy & Pimp

    Andy & Pimp Well-Known Member

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    It's so overwhelming at the beginning, I remember well! You are already through the hardest part:)
     
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  71. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Hi Cathie,

    I have not used N. Every few people here have, especially currently. But it is an insulin that is not a depot insulin so I sometimes try to help as it does act a little like ProZinc, which I am familiar with.

    It looks like you are seeing the common response with N. It tends to have a sudden onset and does not usually last a full cycle. There are a couple things you might do to improve things. If you give a snack early in the cycle, it might keep the level a little higher when the insulin first hits and flatten out the fast drop and rise after. In fact, dividing the food into several small portions and feeding them throughout the day might help flatten things out. (You do still want to have food in her tummy before the shot also)

    It looks like you are working to change her diet to wet low carb. That can lower the levels overall. It is a good idea to have some higher carb gravy foods available if you need to get the levels up - a little bit of the gravy off the higher carb foods can raise a level that seems to be dropping too fast.

    Getting some data during the cycles day and night should give you a good picture of how and if N is going to work for her.
     
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  72. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I bought Karo and some fancy feast gravy foods yesterday so I am ready. Hopefully won't need to use them.
     
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  73. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 2, 2016
    taking my daughter to class now.
     
  74. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

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    May 30, 2010
    Sue....with a non-depot insulin, esp s shorter acting insulin like N, how do you tell a bounce from lack of duration and numbers just coming back up?
     
  75. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Good question. I don't have a good answer. I would think they would look the same basically, but I think we assume with the harsher insulin that the duration isn't there. The only time you could assume it wasn't a bounce would be if there wasn't a low enough number to bounce from....
     
  76. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Thanks, Sue.

    For a kitty like Shaak who has probably been in higher numbers a while, even the blue numbers last night could have triggered a bounce. Or Shaak could have dropped 131 mg/dL in one hour which could also have triggered a bounce. I find that even with Lantus and levemir, it takes a good eye to notice the difference between a bounce and lack of duration. I see members calling the lack of duration a bounce.
     
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  77. Andy & Pimp

    Andy & Pimp Well-Known Member

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    Oct 18, 2015
    Am I correct that when bouncing, the next insulin dose (or doses...up to 6 cycles) won't have an effect- with a high, flat cycle? As opposed to a duration issue, where you would see the same drop/rise pattern on every cycle?
     
  78. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Yes...exactly. If it's a duration issue, you should see the numbers come right back down with the next shot. Although some cats deal with bounces pretty quickly and can clear them in a cycle, if the pattern looked to me like they were having a u shaped curve every cycle and coming down from pink/yellow to blue/green, I would interpret that as duration.
     
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  79. Julia & Bandit (GA)

    Julia & Bandit (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    When Bandit is on insulin, we keep 4 cans of Fancy Feast in the house. 2 cans of the medium carb "elegant medleys" for when he dips a little low before bed (60-80), and 2 cans of the high carb "Gravy Lovers" in case of hypo.

    We didn't keep any dry on hand for hypos because it raised his BG too high and stayed in his system for too long to be very helpful. However, we used Lantus, which is much gentler than N, with flatter cycles.
     
  80. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 2, 2016
    +2.5 182 Kirby's class ran late, I was flipping out. It was fine though, she is at a good level I think.
     
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  81. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 2, 2016
    okay, I would love to transition her to Canned food, she has never been receptive to it in the past 10 years though. I bought some gravy lovers anyway though, at the grocery store for emergency food, and then I still have her older dry food if I need to use some of that if she won't eat the canned for a Hypo situation.
     
  82. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 2, 2016
    oh, jeesh forgot to say, the +2.5 draw was textbook perfect in my humble opinion.
     
  83. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 2, 2016
    I am attempting to understand bouncing but not sure I fully get the difference between what it and duration is. I guess bounce is where it drops low and then the next cycle bounces back up and then next cycle bounces back low. Or am I misunderstanding.
     
  84. Andy & Pimp

    Andy & Pimp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2015
    One of our members wrote an excellent explanation of a bounce here. (the first part about new dose wonkiness doesn't apply to your insulin)
     
  85. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 2, 2016
    okay, so it just keeps going up rather than going down and then slowly back up? like 350 375 415 rather than 350 290 215 280
     
  86. Andy & Pimp

    Andy & Pimp Well-Known Member

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    Oct 18, 2015
    It can go up and they can stay high and flat for a while, or they can bobble around in higher numbers for a bit.
     
  87. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 2, 2016
    ah, okay, I see. so Shaak never really got to a low enough number since she only got down to 147 then, she just bobbled around in higher numbers.
     
  88. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 2, 2016
    well this sucks, she is already back up to 325 at 3.5
     
  89. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 2, 2016
    should I try and talk to the vet now about the Lantus, or will she probably say I am not giving it enough time, she did not even suggest I home test so she will be unaware I even know what is going on with her BG.
     
  90. Andy & Pimp

    Andy & Pimp Well-Known Member

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    Oct 18, 2015
    A dose adjustment may make a difference but that's not something I'm comfortable advising you on, you'll have to wait for @Sue and Oliver (GA) to help you out. Sorry :(
     
  91. Andy & Pimp

    Andy & Pimp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2015
    She is so much higher at this time in the cycle today, I wonder if she bounced. That's really fast for insulin to wear off.
    Pimp didn't bounce from his first Lantus shot, but proceeded to bounce to 600's for the next month.

    PS you'll want to color that +3.5 box on your spreadsheet pink...as much as we wish it was blue :bighug:
     
  92. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 2, 2016
    I fixed it, darn it. almost back to where she was this morning already.
     
  93. Andy & Pimp

    Andy & Pimp Well-Known Member

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    Oct 18, 2015
    Don't be surprised if she goes way higher...your meter might even say HI. But she's better off being too high for a day, than too low for a minute. It's all part of finding regulation.
     
  94. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 2, 2016
    I have not been able to catch her in the box to ck her ketones
     
  95. Andy & Pimp

    Andy & Pimp Well-Known Member

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    Oct 18, 2015
    Tip: keep test strips close to box in case you do catch her.

    Sometimes cats will go in an empty LB. Some will go on plastic wrap if you lay it on top of litter. Sometimes if you hear them in LB there will still be a puddle you can dip the strip in. You could also replace litter with non-absorbant sand/crystals or even aquarium gravel.
     
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  96. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 2, 2016
    oh wow, okay.
    okay, thank you.
     
  97. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 2, 2016
    so I should continue to check BG, I was thinking it was alright to wait till tonight, alright if not, I just got confused.
     
  98. Andy & Pimp

    Andy & Pimp Well-Known Member

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    Oct 18, 2015
    You and Shaak can have a "pokey break" until PMPS tonight! :)
     
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  99. Andy & Pimp

    Andy & Pimp Well-Known Member

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    Oct 18, 2015
    Sorry, I see how that could have been confusing. You don't need to test again until PMPS. I was preparing you for a substantially higher number at PMPS. If she has indeed bounced, it will probably last a while (days).
     
  100. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Today's numbers do look like a bounce to me. Dropping almost 50% in two hours can trigger that extra glucose from her body. It would be really unusual if her duration was only 3 hours, so I am thinking, at least today, the jump is not a duration issue. She still may have a duration issue, but the 325 looks like a bounce to me. Even with N, the insulin usually lasts 4-6 hours so we'd expect to see the rise a little later.

    The problem with increasing the dose with an insulin like N is that a higher dose can mean a deeper drop, not a longer cycle. Increasing doesn't usually translate into lower overall numbers like the other insulins. The blues are nice numbers; they just come too early in the cycle. As she is very new to insulin and still eating dry, I would be reluctant to increase the dose.

    While I agree that your Pmps is likely to be high, I'd hold the dose. A bounce with the shorter lasting insulin may not last as long as the longer lasting ones, so she might settle back into her usual range within another cycle.
     
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