Should I increase ? and how Much?

I did the GB every two hours, George's last was 520. I have to test again in about a half an hour. He is screaming at me for food. I don't want to starve him. what should I increase to? and what is a good amount to give him for meals .. I have friskies pate does he get the whole can for meals ?

 

Insulin is what helps the food to get into the cells, and when a cat is diabetic and not getting enough insulin, his cells can't get the food his body needs, and he will be starving. Is he skinny or loosing weight? If so, you should feed him more. My cats each eat one 3oz can of Fancy Feast in the morning, and another at night. And they are keeping their body weight even. But, they are not diabetic, and every cat is different. It is also easier on a cat's pancreas to get several small meals throughout the day rather than two big meals. Does he eat some of his can, and then nibble the rest throughout the day?

 

yes, that is what i did in the past was put a large scoop in his bowl then he would nibble walk and come back later. so this is hard for me to determine what to give him because he wants to scarf and My vet said to give him so little food it is driving me and him nuts

 

I don't know what your vet told you to give him. Is he just right, or too skinny, or too fat?

 

he was 14lbs very muscular and then he lost weight 1.5 lb

 

Smokey has always been large over 20 lbs. He was under 12 when I got him. Not knowing how much to give him I was giving less than 5 oz day. Now I know it wasn't enough and I have been giving , 2 oz DM at PS times. Then he is begging at +3-4 so I give him 1-1.5 oz. Sometimes need needs to eat @ +6-8. But not all the time. I always give him a feeding when I go to bed. He is maintaining 17 lbs now very nicely.

Feed frequent small meals and build up from that.

 

thanks that helps a lot

 

Squallie is about 14 lbs, he eats 1/3 can of 9 Lives mixed with a heaping 1/3 cup of Nature's Variety raw for both breakfast and dinner. For lunch he only gets 1/3 can of 9 Lives, no raw. He does very well on this, if I don't monitor him he will start to gain so sometimes I have to cut him back a little.

I have an 11 lb cat who eats the same diet, because he needs to gain some weight.

Don't know whether any of that will help you or not. I have to add, though, when my guys are eating a diet including the frozen raw food they are never hungry between meals, like they used to be.

 

Just curious - why did your vet tell you to give him so little food, and how much did he recommend George should eat?

 

Are you thinking of increasing his dose? It certainly looks like he has plenty of room to drop.

 

I see you gave him 3 units tonight, I think that was probably a good move. are you going to continue testing tonight? It would be great to see some night-time numbers!

 

I would get some extra tests in tonight. Can you get a before bed test, and set an alarm to get a +6?

 

Hey Cindy Lou, I am just reading the threads this morning. Did you say that George is 12.5 pounds now after losing 1.5 lbs? Was the 14 a good weight for him or is the vet saying that the 12.5 now is just right? The reason I am asking is that there is a formula for how much you feed your cat. You take his weight (ideal weight) times it by 13.5 then add 70. Let's assume that 12.5 is his ideal weight, 12.5 X 13.5 =168.75 +70 = 238.75. Round it up to 239 calories a day. Find out how many calories are in the food you are feeding him then figure out how much of it you will need to feed him. Then divide those calories into how ever many meals you are feeding . When they are first diagnosed they are starving, so if you need to give a bit more until his BG settles into lower numbers, do. You can adjust the volume later. But, at least this gives you an idea of approximately how much food you should be giving.
Here's the food chart for you to check your brand and flavors.
foodchart

 

14 was a great weight, he is a very muscular perfect shaped cat. now I can feel all hid bones. when i called I get the assistant that goes by what she feeds her cats. Thank you ALL for giving me some insight and LOVE. thank God I found you all. thank you for the food formula
George wanted nothing to do with testing this morning and we are gone for the day so I will try again later. ( I think he ran out of blood.. LOL ) Have a great day everyone ...

 

Hey Cindy, would you mind adding extra information to your signature like insulin and meter? That would help a lot.

 

When you increase the insulin like that, it's probably best to get some extra tests in to see how the increase is doing.

 

And, if you're going to be gone for the day, I would definitely leave extra food out for him, since you won't be home to monitor. Actually, if it were me, I would try to run home mid-day to test and see how he's doing.

 

Cindy, please let us know how George is doing tonight, and what his test numbers are.

 

Failure , I came home and right away tried to test and after poking him 3 times nothing worked . his ears are very tender from yesterday and he wanted nothing to do with it . at one point I had blood all over and the tester wouldnt work .... Uhg!!!! so far he's doing ok... Still drinking tons of water .... his ears were warm I put more tripple antibiotic on them .

 

We've all had those failures. It'll get easier. Make sure to give him a hug and a treat even when you don't get a test. Take a deep breath,and Maybe try to get a test in a few hours

 

You may find some of the Secondary Monitoring Tools in my signature helpful to evaluate him.

 

421 on a accu tester this morning ... will he ever cut back on drinking water? I'm scooping tons out of his litter box.

 

His numbers are high. Glad you got the curve. It does show the insulin seems to peter out and his numbers are pretty high and flat. Maybe ask the vet about an increase? I was hoping he dropped and then bounced back up but that doesn't seem to be the case.

It doesn't look like the N is working well for George. Any chance you can get another longer lasting insulin like Lantus, Levemir or ProZinc? If money is an issue, check in the Supply closet.

Unfortunately until he is in better ranges, he is likely to continue peeing and drinking a lot.

 

I'm glad you went up to 3 units after doing the curve. Like Sue said, it doesn't look like the N is doing a lot for George.

If you're interested in trying a different kind of insulin, there's someone selling Lantus pens for cheap ($25) on the Supply Closet:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fresh-lantus-for-sale-cheap-25.144501/#post-1528706

A pen is like a mini-vial. It will last a few months and if you drop it, it won't break. (And buying one pen is a lot cheaper than buying a full vial.) You can also look on Craigslist but it's kind of "buyer beware" since you don't know anything about the sellers on Craigslist and you don't want to buy an open vial or open pen that is old and not as effective. Not that you know much about us other than we're all crazy cat ladies.

If he doesn't start coming down more on 3 units, I think you'll have to think about switching insulins.

 

Any chance you could shoot every 8 hours?

 

I hope I did this right his numbers were 535 .... I increased his insulin to 3.5 unints

 

this is the insulin I have ... I can't afford anything else so i hope it works soon.

 

Got my Care package from Dyana ... Thank you ! So now I have a new meter it is a Glucocard Vital it actually worked nice... So tell me what is going to happen if I don't get his numbers down. How much of the Novalin can I go up to?

 

It isn't how high of a dose - that is based on how LOW he goes. He must stay safely above 50 mg/dL on a human glucometer.

 

So should I call my vet tomorrow ? even though she doesn't want me to be testing .... I ,m at a loss.

 

I think, if she were mine, I would continue with the N, testing so she stays in safe numbers. Meanwhile try to find some other insulin. Maybe look in our Supply closet? See if you can find a single vial of Lantus somewhere. BCP PZI is the cheapest of the long lasting, mild insulins. Your vet has to give you a prescription but it usually costs about $50.

 

I think the insulin you are using wears off in about 8 to 10 hours, so George will be coming up to his highest point at the time you do his pre shot tests. To find out how low he's going, you'll need to get some more tests after the shot is given.

I'm glad you got the package. J.D. is happy that I am helping another kitty with his supplies.

I would recommend getting some urine ketone test strips as soon as your are able to. At Walmart they are currently on sale for $5.12 for 50 strips. They will last for 6 months, once opened. Write the date that you opened the bottle on the outside of the box.

 

Before I call the vet what is the difference between an cat meter and a human meter ? I know there going to jump on me like i don't know what I'm doing and I shouldn't be poking my cat

 

There is a difference. Alpha Trak meters are calibrated for feline blood, not human, so they read differently. It would probably be great if everyone here could use one. BUT they are expensive to buy and the strips (which are the biggest expense in this whole thing over time) are very expensive. So most of us use human meters. They are cheaper to buy and the strips are much cheaper.

We think that, since we look at patterns and trends, human meters can give us the same infor over time. And we do have a spreadsheet for AT users that will give you the ranges you need. But most likely, if your vet uses the AT, your human meter will read higher overall. That isn't a bad thing, just something to know and be aware of.

It really depends on your budget. So if your vet wants you to buy one. You can just say - I have to be able to afford to treat this disease and their price is too high.

 

Thanks I Will My schedule is so weird. Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday ... I have one job. 7:30 to 3:30 then Tuesday it can range from 9 to 8. I have been testing at 6:30 am & pm. maybe I should be testing at another time. I can't get home for lunch during the day.

 

Since you can't get home at nadir always, you get numbers whenever you can. I'd use those 3:30 days to get numbers in the afternoon - every couple of hours till shot time. Then a before bed test every night. And sometimes. Set the alarm at nadir and get up at night and get a quick test. Then, when you don't go till 9am, get a few extra tests that am. On your day off, plan to get a curve, every 2-4 hours.

All data is good data. Whatever you get, whenever you get it will help you see that big picture.

 

Well I called the Vet. I got the talk that even though you all have experienced this you are not vets and that Human blood is not cat blood and that they can't give me the ok to increase with out testing them selves. so Friday I will take \him in for a blood test for $18.00 ... So give me some ideas on how I can get this vet to understand the help you all have given and to work with me. I really cant afford running to to vet. I was assured that the Acana dry food I have is grain free and that I don't have to switch to can food... Uhggggg! the only reason I went to the Acana is my last cat I had to put down because she was so bound up there was nothing I could do. So with George I have tried my best to take good care of him. annual vet checks, shots. when we go to camping i take him with us. now I'm gonna loose him to this crap.

 

No, you won't lose him. Many cats go into remission and even those who don't live long, healthy lives. Someone wise once said, "Remember, he doesn't know he's diabetic. He knows you are giving him lots of extra attention, some yummy new treats and good food."

My vet wanted me to feed prescription food. Your vet is not around when you feed him, so feed him what you want. Lots of us (including me) fed low carb, home tested and just didn't bring it up at vet visits. For me, I took him in once he was in remission and she was astounded - wanted to know all about the www.catinfo.org site and testing at home.

A blood test for $18 is very reasonable. You can just do that, compare it to your numbers at home (gotten without the stress factor) and proceed accordingly. You hold the syringe; you buy the food. You need the vet for the insulin and shots and stuff, but I wouldn't try to convince him that these weird people on the internet know what they are talking about. Just keep treating George the way you think is best and work with (around) the vet.

 

Hey Cindy Lou. Yes, the human meter and the pet meters are different and as Sue said the human will read a bit lower, about 30 points. The numbers you will be collecting will show patterns and trends and a high number is a high number on a pet meter just as it is on a human meter and the same with low numbers. The pet meter strips are very expensive and if money is tight, it will be another burden on your wallet. The main objective for testing at home is to keep George safe. And yes, we are not vets but there is probably more experience here with feline diabetes than your vet has ever had. Two reasons for that, vets do not get a lot of training in school on feline diabetes and they usually don't take the time to go back and get more training on current research about it. And second, they don't treat a whole lot of cats with diabetes because a lot of peeps euthanize their pets with they get the DX of diabetes.

The bottom line that you can show him your SS with numbers as you collect and get information. And this forum can help you as well. If it were me, I would use the monies for a better gentler longer lasting insulin like ProZince or Lantus or Levemir rather than for expensive pet meter strips. That can be part of your reasoning with him and the real bottom line is that is is ultimately your choice. You have to do what is right for you and your cat and you don't need permission from the vet. Sending you hugs, I feel you frustration....

 

Thanks I needed that !

 

Thanks for the TLC I needed it ! Some day I hope I hope I can be there for all of you !

 

That's what we are here for and some day you will pay it forward to the newbies just like we are doing for you.

 

The vet I went to told me to feed my cat one 1/4 cup of dry food a day!she weighed 20lbs at the time.the vet said I feed my cats 1/4 a cup a day and the scarf it all down.i want my cats hungry.my mouth dropped to the floor when she handed my a scoop to use so tiny!i of course am not feeding this amount.if I did they would be starving and would have lost weight way too fast to be safe.i gave 1/4 in morning and 1/4 in evening each with a little canned then miss kitty became diabetic so now I have increased canned foods and decreasing the dry food trying to wean them off it.i bought a scale to keep track of their weight.

 

that's unbelievable

 

Yay! BG after 3 hrs with 4 units 258 I came home from work ,tried to test for PM no go . Gave 4 units again... tested after 10 hour BG was 279 he has 2 hours to go before his next shot ... that is a lot better right ?

 

Looking good Cindy Lou. When it is time for his next shot, could you post again and with the number to see if the dose needs to be adjusted?

 

327

 

Yes, that does look better!

For reference, we generally consider a cat regulated if they are in the lower 200s at preshot and double digits at nadir, but above 45, which is approaching hypo territory. So that is the first rough range to shoot for.(pun intended) That can work by slowly and carefully raising the dose, and by his body adjusting to and learning to work with the insulin. And the food can also make a huge difference if you can start slowly switching over. Our Oliver had a cast iron stomach and we were able to switch overnight. His numbers plunged 100 points for the next preshot. That's why testing is so important; if we had given his usual dose without testing, he would have hypoed.

So you are on your way!

 

I had Bailey on Novolin N for a while which stoped working for him about 3 months ago. My vet would not admit that SUCH THING could happen and was suggesting increasing the dose. We went from 0.5 units to 3.5 units twice a day, and we were still not getting anywhere. Consulted with another vet - same response, "You just need to increase dosage". Got cat to a third vet who prescribed Lantus and mentioned that "Novolin does not work well for some cats". . . Just saying that you are your cat's best advocate and if you feel that home-testing / switching insulins / keeping the dosage / feeding canned diet is right for you cat then, may be, finding a vet that is on the same page as you are is the answer.

 

sorry i did nt post back had to go to the ER had a bad Headhache..

 

Oh no! Are you doing okay now, Cindy? Hope you're feeling better.

 

I went to a doc for migraines, and was advised to add 400 mg Vitamin B-2, 400 mg magnesium, and daily Petadolux (an extract of butterbur) to help prevent them. I checked for research on these at PubMed and found the research is very solid for these helping reduce the frequency and intensity of migraines.

 

Hope you are feeling better, Cindy. Imagine the stress of the last few weeks wasn't helpful. I hope, now that you are testing and feel comfortable with it and the shots, you can relax a little. Early on in my sugar dance, someone wise once told me to remember to breathe, deeply and often. Always thought it was good advice.

 

Still major head ache been maintaining the 4 unit seems to be doing well. (back to bed fpr me)

 

Start my way back to the pain free world. I'm starting the "Brain Jello" phase those who have headaches know what i mean. Gb 381 this morning , I'm home again to I'll try to test more today. I had an appt to take George to get his blood work done ... but Hubby said no because I lost 2 days of pay , uhggg.

thank you so ouch for the love ... Have a great DAy

 

I am such a dork !!!! I took his GB at 7am it was 381 good I thought after 12 hours then i spaced out and forgot to shoot him.... when I did remember +2 hour it was up to 490 ,,,, gave hime his shot and +2 hour hes down to 278. \i hope i didn't mess him up too bad
damn it !

 

Found a vet that will work with me ... just have to save to get him in .... they said just keep monitoring and talking with you all till I can ... lots of love to you all ... do ya feel it?

 

This has happened to ALL of us. He'll be fine. Hugs. And congrats on your new vet who is willing to let you test at home and feed him low-carb!! That's great news.

 

Congratulations on finding a vet that will work with you. Those are hard to find.

And, most people have been in your shoes, not only financially, but trying to find a vet that will work with you, and missing a shot on occasion. It happens.

490 to 278 in 2 hours is a mighty dive. He might bounce from that.

I am glad you are feeling better.

 

if Some one gets a chance ... if someone could look at Greorges gb numbers he is really sleepy all day . isn't eating much, just nibbles. is this his organs quiting on me ... I screwed him up by my headache and not keeping on task didn't i.

 

You didn't screw him up sweetie. He is new to this sugar dance and is trying to get use to the insulin and a new diet and being poked.

 

Cindy, both you and George are new at this. Both of you have to learn. Take it easy on yourself. Relax, George will pick up on your stress. Trust in the FDMB and yourself and George will just fall into place. It will happen. Believe. You can do it!

 

thank you again ... he picked up still isn't eating much but he did want to go out side My hubby keeps telling me is isn't going to last much longer sorry for freaking

 

He certainly is in safe levels midcycle which is great. It does look like he either bounces back up or the insulin isn't lasting long enough.

You are doing everything right, Cindy Lou. Your job is to keep him safe while his body adjusts to the diet and the insulin. You are doing that. Once you learned how to test, you made a huge step in his treatment. Now to be patient, keep collecting data and Breathe!

 

Don't beat yourself up, Cindy, you haven't done anything wrong. You're testing him, you're learning how to handle treating him, and you're doing just fine. As Sue said, breathe!

 

592 this morning, he's not finishing a meal ,, just nibbles bites here and there.. gave 4 units

thanks again for the love

 

As long as he ate a TBSP of food. Perhaps when that higher number comes down he will feel like eating more. He had a nice lower number yesterday which probably explains today's high AMPS. You are doing great Cindy Lou. Could you try to get a mid-cycle number during the PM cycle? It can help give some more data which can be helpful with dosing.

 

If you want to exchange that really long link for other text, go to your profile and edit it by placing
[ u r l =
without any spaces before the link
] after the link
the text you want displayed
and [ / u r l ]
without any spaces after the text

 

BJ, she has a spreadsheet attached. Another cup of coffee?

 

Cr*p for vision. I edited the post.
Can't do caffeine.

 

I'm ok with that url giberish? ..lol is there someones spreadsheet that I can look at ? maybe that would help me understand a little better.

 

Your spreadsheet is fine, Cindy. BJ just missed it.

 

Its more of a readability thing (partly why I didn't recognize your link)
Example:
This: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/should-i-increase-and-how-much.147200/unread
vs
example of +/- 20%

 

https://www.facebook.com/DavidAvoca...342374.102515706511/10153103997701512/?type=3 check this out

 

haven't been able to wake up and take Georges Gb at night. Once I'm out I'm out ,, ZZZZZzzzzzzZZZZZzzzzzz My son says George was dry heaving early this morning ? any thing I should be concerned about?

 

Has it continued? Has he eaten anything since the am? Did he sure get food before the shot?

With his being in high numbers, are you getting regular ketone tests?

How is the diet change coming?

 

Does he occasionally vomit or have dry heaves, as a rule? Squallie NEVER does, unless something is up, so it's easy to tell, with him. One of my civvies is a little bit of a "puker" so I don't worry as much when he does it, unless it doesn't stop after a little while.

 

ok! I give him 1/2 can of Friskies and enough to crunch of the dry Acana he eats a bit gets his shot, then sleeps (like cats do ) in his favorite spot. then gets up nibbles here and there.

Just wondering? ( hope you don't mind the color print and larger print... I can read it better )

 

If he scarfs and barfs, sometimes it helps to smear the food around the plate.

It would be good to get rid of the dry. If he likes crunchy, the PureBites freeze dried can be crunched up.

 

Hi Cindy. George is so adorable, I just want to reach through the screen and hug him, lol!

Since he is on Novolin, which can be a little harsh, it's a good idea to wait 20 minutes or so after he eats to give him his insulin. This helps assure that he's got some food in his tummy when he hits that first steep drop in BG.

 

How is George today, Cindy? I hope he is starting to get used to the routine.

 

Pretty good Day! I'm having some trouble getting into my spread sheet.... I was creating a calendar for work and organizing a few things on Google . Now I cant get write my Gb's in .... the last two times I had a 368 and 392 12 hours apart, he was actually playful and talkative ..

 

Got it Figured out

 

Good Morning my SWEEET Friends!

 

Good Morning, Cindy

 

Hi Cindy, how are you and George today?

 

Hey CindyLou, just wanted to pop in and say hi! Looks like George is coming down some!

 

a little his attitude is coning back too. but it is amazing how all they think about is food... and water.
have a great weekend !

 

Doing well, My Mom cat sat for me. a very dear family friend gave me more insulin & syringes so George will be with us a long time. thank you. I bumped up the insulin to 4.5u units today .. we'll see how he tolerates it.

 

Great news, that's wonderful!

 

got a great number finally at least I think it is ? GB 195 at +4 hours
Let me know what you think

 

Congratulations on being in the blues!!! That certainly seems like a step in the right direction! I would encourage you to try and get a few more tests in throughout the day, when you can, so we have more information to work with. I see you don't have a PMPS number for George tonight; it's important to make sure you get the pre-shot tests in, especially when you're using a shorter-acting insulin, like you and I do.

 

Mr George is fighting me so much in getting GB's so I've been trying to get different times of the day when I am home. He likes the Ear rubs and the treats ,,, but he is so focused on the food that he fights the pokes ...

 

Hi Cindy Lou, it seems that George and Bubba and Carol's Murphy have decided to start a club against testing........

 

okay, I have a delema, We are going to the Packer Game on Thanks Giving . Normally George gets his shot 6:30 am and pm. we are leaving at noon for the game and won't get home till 1 am I don't have a back up since it's turkey. what would be the best way to handle a missed shot ?

 

I'm unable to post question here please resolve my problem

 

You can add Squallie to the list of club members! He used to be so good about the ear pokes, but for the last couple of weeks he's been a little stinker about them! Guess he's decided he's had enough...

 

If you have to miss a shot once in a while, it's okay, it happens to all of us sometimes. Just start the next day with the same dose you've been using (don't forget to test first).

 

It's starting to look like a boy's club!

 

well it's the second day at a the next dose 4.5u and his Gb started to go down and then went right back up.... I am assuming that it takes a few days before it really lets me know if it is working ,,,, I saw in a previous post that someone ask if i could shoot every 8 hours . is that something I should consider? How many units would I use. if I did that?
any suggestions he's down 2.8 lbs from his original weight. Any thoughts out there?