Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Looby & Smiffy, Jul 23, 2016.
Can only try. They do like to surprise us.
Hello @Alexi and @MrWorfMen's Mom and @Capoo and @Woodywife
You know that Smiffy actually ate a bowl of Encore ocean fish and I as soooo excited but wondered if it was because it was in Pasha's bowl and Smiffy wanted to eat her food (because she gets jealou) ...
Well I tried Sheba chicken flakes today ....
Usually put dry food down for the cats in their biscuit bowls (on opposite sides of the room in our tiny open plan house) morning and evening and then give Pasha some wet food Felix at about 3pm in her wet food bowl.... Smifffy muscles in on it because she is jeaous and just licks off the jelly.
Yesterday after the Felix was done with I put some Encore ocean fish in Pasha's bowl and Smiffy ate the lot
Today I got a wet food bowl out for Smiffy on her side of the room and at 3 gave Pasha her Felix in her bowl and put the Encore in Smiffy's wet bowl ..... NOT INTERESTED! Only interested in nicking Pasha's bowl ..... even after the Felix was over she wouldn't take any interest in the Encore even when I moved the bowl closer to Pasha's bowl ...
Do you think it was the strong smell of the fishy one that attracted Smiffy to the Encore yesterday?
I am going to leave both the 'wet' bowls out alongside the dry bowls and see if I can get Smiffy used to the idea that she gets wet food too so doesn't have to nick Pasha's ... this is how the bowls got separated in the first place
I am not sure how to train her to use her own bowl after all these years for wet food ..... she doesn't eat the Felix - only licks it.
Will get some Sheba fish flakes .... think there is going to be a lot of wasted food here .....
Any bright ideas?!
Oh the tales I could tell of musical bowls in my house. What's in the other cat's dish is always more interesting and appetizing. I have also had the joy of introducing a new food and having happy campers the first day only to have them turn their noses up at it the next. There is no telling what is going through their minds when they engage in this activity but I personally think it likely has something to do with the pecking order. Like a pride of lions, the head honcho (or the one who wants to feel like head honcho that day) gets to eat his fill first and will pilfer other bowls to do so. Our kitties are generally a little beyond that instinctual behaviour but my middle "child" came from a feral colony and I can tell you he is definitely the worst offender at nicking other kitty dishes. I have always chalked it up to a little more remaining wild DNA! Wish I had some words of wisdom but alas other than being lunchroom monitor, I've yet to find a solution.
No wisdom here either. All three of my cats pilfer from each other. Only one gets something in the 5% carb range. When she is done then Tux eats what left, the Smokey gets to lick the bowl, if he is lucky he might get a crumb. Tux and Smokey get the same thing. And Tux and Tripper eat the same thing. Tripper will not eat Smokey food. All the food I buy is food appropriate for Smokey except the one for Tripper. She will only eat one flavor of one brand, the Purina Smart Blend beef pate.
Yes Smiffy is definitley topo cat - always have to feed her first!
It's good that she actually ATE some fishy encore food - a whole bowl - but it would seem it was more to do with eating it before Pasha got a chance to eat it!
I will not give up ... have put some fishy (though why she suddenly likes fish all of a sudden I don't know!) low carb sachets on the shop list and see how we go ...
At least it is one step in the right direction - even if today was a couple of steps backwards ....
I have to remember if she won't eat it then there is no point bashing myslef up about it but I WILL keep trying to juggle with the bowls to see if I can at least begin to develop a taste for the fishy ones in Smiffy
Smiffy ate some more fishy Encore today in HER bowl and HER side of the room today but got distracted by Pasah eating so left her fishy food and went off to bully Pasah away from her felix which Smiffy doesn't eat but just licks ....
Promising though .. going to have to wait for DH to go shopping to get some fishy sachets and feed both cats the same at the same time to see how that works in the afternoon then if successful could then bring that back to breakfast time ....
I will always leave some biscuits out for Smiffy to snack on in case her BG gets too low at her Nadir ...
@Alexi @MrWorfMen's Mom @scoobydoox @Nederland @Kako & Tux I am giving Smiffy 1.5 units now in the evening now if she is over preshot 12 instead of over preshot 14 now to see if I can affect her daytime figures ...
Also as you can see from the posts above experimenting with different flakey wet foods - tried the chicken one by Sheba and she was not interested at all but once again seems to like the very fish Encore one but that only comes in a small tin so I am going to try the Shebay fishy flakes sachet once DH has gone to the shops
As I say perhaps then I can feed both Smiffy and Pasha the same food and there won't be the dilmena of Smiffy rushing over to Pasha's bowl because she is jealous ... I want her to stick to her own bowl on her own side of the room!
Once again if you have any tips or suggestions for this bowl and dominance dilemna I would be very glad to hear from you
No new insights into the bowl and dominance dilemma however just a thought about the food itself. Smiffy was eating dry food only aside from licking some soft food so if her diet changes to include some wet food, you should remain conservative with her dose and monitor closely as the removal of dry food even in part could affect her BG levels for the better.
So the latest with Smiffy and her bowls and wet food is that I tried Smiffy on some chicken flakes today in her bowl on her side of teh room and fed Pasha her felix in her bowl on her side of the room.
Smiffy headed straight for Pasha's bowl and bullied her away from it so that she could lick the jelly off the top (she really won't eat the chunks of meat in foods like felix and whiskas).
I gently picked her up and put her in front of her own wet food but she was having none of it ....
Don't know what to do unless when the shopping is done tomorrow and we have some of the flakey fish that Smiffy seems to like, i can give both cats the strong smelling fishy food and hopefully Smiffy won't try to eat out of Pasha's bowl.
I don't want to feed Smiffy in the bathroom (the only separate room we have downstairs) and I already have to feed Smiffy in the bedroom upstairs in the evening which is also not ideal.
Smiffy doesn't seem to want to eat at her normal eating place anymore unless I am somewhere else in the house or not watching - she has come to associate it with the place where I first used to inject her ....
She has trained me to follow her around the house with her bowl to get her to eat ....
Then she comes back to eat when I am not looking!
Tricky little tinker ......
Any more bright ideas?
Yes I appreciate that ...... I manage to test her everyday day now before I give her her shot ...... even if I get her onto wet (early days yet - see post below or above - still not sure how this site lays itself out! had problems with her today) .... yes so even if I get her onto wet I would still leave out some diabetic biscuits for her to eat at her Nadir if she felt her BG getting too low ....
@Alexi @MrWorfMen's Mom @manxcat419 @scoobydoox @Nederland @Kako & Tux
Would you look at Smiffy's most recent numbers for me please for your opinion ....
I was thinking a few weeks ago that the Caninsulin was lasting the full 12 hours more or less in Smiffy but her recent numbers are making me doubt that now ...
I am surprised now at her morning preshot reading after giving her 1.5 unit in the evening ..
She seems to be handling the 1.5 units just fine and I'd try sticking with this the next few days to see what her morning and mid cycle numbers do. As for musical bowls - I have a cat that will shove the others out of the way one by one to eat out of their bowl instead of his - exactly the same food in each. With him it is just greed and I sometimes have to play musical cats putting each of them back in front of their own bowls to eat. Smiffy has you well trained. You may need nerves of steel for this one but how about giving them both the same food, in the same room, at the same time, stand back and wait, and wait, and then wait a bit longer - leaving the room and doing something else for a little while. Eventually Smiffy may get the message that her food is for her to eat at meal times and no alternative will be offered.
OK I will stick with the 1.5 units in the evening as long as she eats ....
Musical bowls is a good way of putting it!
We are all open plan in our house - just a door to the tiny bathroom downstairs and two tiny bedrooms with barely any leg room upstairs.
DH is going shopping tomorrow and I have asked him to get Sheba fish flakes so that I can do exactly as you suggest which is to feed both Smiffy and Pasha the same food and as you say stand back for a bit.
At the moment I am just experimenting with them in the afternoon with the wet food ...... Pasha always has some wet food at about 3 with breakfast and supper biscuits with Smiffy.
If Smiffy likes the food I get then I will try it out in the afternoon at 3 .....I want to try to train her to eat out of her own bowl in the afternoon first before I put it out at her main meal and shot time .... I don't know if she is going to like this food yet. The fishy one that she really liked was just from a tiny tin - so not a full meal's worth and I am a bit food tin phobic as I have had some nasty cuts from the ring pull type (happened again yesterday) so prefer her to eat a meal size portion from a 85g sachet ..
Will let you know how I get on ...
@Louise1989 Welcome to the FDMB and Smiffy's thread ....... if you read through this thread you will find some of the very lovely people that have helped and are still supporting me
The stolen food bowl thing can be an adventure. Last night diabetes cat was eating normal cat food, normal cat was eating kidney disease food and kidney disease was eating diabetes food.
@Alexi @MrWorfMen's Mom @scoobydoox @Nederland @Kako & Tux @Chris & China @Wendy&Neko @Marje and Gracie
Hi some of you that already follow Smiffy and some new people that have been recommended by an old friend of yours .... some of you with personal experience with Caninsulin ...
Would you have a look at Smiffy's spreadsheet - here numbers are running higher than they were with not much of a Nadir ...
If you are not familiar with Smiffy then please look at the top of this thread as it gives you a run down of the detials of her last trip to the Vet ...
PS I was talking to someone on the FB site today that gives their puss Caninsulin shots every 8 hours which I had never heard of before ..... I am not suggesting this for Smiffy as her numbers have pretty much shown that Caninsulin lasts the full 12 hours in her but am curious to know what you think about that.
No further luck with the wet food today but I now have sachets of Sheba fishy flakes that I can experiment with on Smiffy and Pasha tomrrow at 3pm - feeding them both at the same time with the same food to see if Smiffy will stick to her bowl instead of going over to Pasha's bowl. I don't know if Smiffy is going to like this particular fish food yet so will not use it at her main meal time yet but fingers crossed
I know that if Smiffy's takes to the new food I will have to adjust her doses and be very careful but if she doesn't (and there is a distinct possibility that she won't but I'm going to give it a good go), I am not sure what my next course of action is as far as dosing is concerned.
Smiffy had two hypos on 2 units twice daily so I am reluctant to go up to 2 units ... certainly not in the morning when I am not around for her Nadir (that's why I give her the higher dose of 1.5 units in the evening when I AM around for her Nadir) ......
Do you think if I continue to give her 1.5 units for her evening cycle she might eventually come down to her nice blue numbers again?
She is really well in herself - as if nothing is wrong with her and all clinical signs are good and no keytones and little glucose in her urine.
Thanks in advance
Hiya - looking at your spreadsheet, its good that before the evening dose you are starting with a lower number, however the nadir still has room to drop even at the 1.50u of an evening and that is consistent that Smiffy has room to drop slightly so I personally would be tempted to increase the morning to 1.5 aswell on an occasion that you do get to do a check on the nadir? have you ever considered a sliding scale?
With two doses of 1.50u that could be the push required to hold those numbers down more often and longer... but with a sliding scale gives you the option to give a tiny booster when you can see smiffy rising but not too high?
Obviously this is only of my personal experience just something I would consider and maybe someone more "expert" can confirm/reject my suggestion xx
@Alexi @Mr Worfmen's wife ...
Smiffy's preshot this morning is 17.8 do I dare to give her a 1.5 unit if she eats this morning and not be around for her Nadir ...... her numbers are getting higher ...
Thanks @Louise1989 for you comments ...... I am not sure what you mean by a sliding scale but if that means more than two shots a day then I am reluctant to do that especilly withoug consulting her Vet .....
Will see how much she eats this morning before I give her her shot this morning ....
There's a small bubble in the cartridge that I haven't noticed before ... I charged the pen in frot of the Vet so I am surprised to see it .... would that make the doses I am giving her as significantly different as her spreadsheet shows?
no not advising you give more than 2 shots at all, your quite right you should consult a vet. Smiffys numbers I would agree don't seem high enough for more than 2 shots generally, each cat is individual. I have been known to give shots at +6 before but strictly under plenty of monitoring and observation - My vet is only round the corner and does 24hour service. For any one curious on the extra shots im more than happy to share my experience as I am who Looby refers to as giving shots early
A sliding scale means you adjust the number based on what the reading is for example
(I am using totally irrelevant numbers (you would never dose on the numbers I am giving its example only) I don't want to be seen to be looking like im giving specific dose advice just trying to show you what a I mean)
If you had a number between
0 and 4 - you gave x amounts of units
5 and 7 - you give y amounts of units
8 - 10 - you give z amounts of units
Smiffy's sliding scale is on Caninsulin is:
0-10 no shot
10-14 one unit
over 14 one and half units
Her numbers have never been much over 15 preshot so that's as far as the sliding scale goes ...... if she is 13ish in the evening and eats plenty then I may give her one and a half shots.
I won't give her two units as it has proved in the past to be too much ...
@Alexi @MrWorfMen's Mom @BJM
I have been thinking about the two little bubbles in the cartridge - they are about 2-3 millimetres diameter.
If they had affected her dose just after the cartridge was changed on the 13th I don't see why I would have got the blue numbers on her spreadsheet.
I am not sure that they are big enough to reduce the dose that have been giving Smiffy - what do you think?
Obviously the less insulin there is in the cartridge the more effect two little bubbles would have on the dose and I am wondering if that is why Smiffy was a highest ever number recorded at home of 17.8 this morning! At first I only gave her one unit but then as she ate a good amount I gave her another half and now at +4 she is a much better 11.5.
The other news is that she ate a quarter of a sachet of the new fish flakes I have bought for her - just gave her a bit as she is not really hungry. I fed both Pasha and Smiffy at the same time and remarkably Smiffy ate out of HER bowl on HER side of the room and didn't try to nose on into Pasha's bowl so promising She ate less than a quarter of it but if she were hungry I am wondering if she would have eaten a whole sachet .... maybe
I have sent a copy of her spreadsheet to her Vet and asked for her to give me a call and I have ordered a new cartridge for Monday so I can charge a new one up properly even though I put the current one in in front of the Vet and the Nurse ...
I would still appreciate a fresh look at Smiffy's spreadsheet from you here to see what you think ..
Smiffy is very well in herself ...so not worried yet ...
Looby, can you change the dose you gave this morning to 1.5 units because otherwise it looks like the 1u took her down when in fact it was the higher dose.
Part of what you are seeing today could be the different diet because I assume with Smiffy eating the soft food, she'd be into the biscuits that much less. This may just be demonstrating how much difference the canned diet will make.
As for the bubbles, I'm afraid that I don't know the pen so can't help with that. Any bubbles in a syringe or pen will affect the dose to some degree but what that degree is, would depend on the size of the container itself. Alexi's opinion would much more valid/valuable than mine. I would check the threads on the pen when you change the cartridge next week to ensure that there aren't any stripped threads that might cause inconsistent dosing as Alexi suggested previously.
Gotcha - done that - thanks it was a bit hectic this morning
She has had her normal amount of biscuits today and just a quarter of a sachet of wet food (same as on the other occasions this past week) so it is probably not enough to bring her numbers down yet ....
Sorry I don't understand what you mean "Part of what you are seeing today could be the different diet because I assume with Smiffy eating the soft food, she'd be into the biscuits that much less. This may just be demonstrating how much difference the canned diet will make"?
Surely any wet food would contributing to her figures would bring them down if it is enough to supplement her intake of biscuits (which it isn't really - she hasn't had much wet food)?
I will check the pen when I change the cartridge ..... Physics and logic would tell me that the bubbles might not make much difference when the cartridge is full but now it is only less than half full - the bubbles are taking up a larter percentage of what is left - what do you think @Alexi ?
It was Capoo that mentioned the thread might be damaged ... we are getting a new cartridge tomorrow so hopefully I will be able to recharge the pen for the evening if husband gets back in time and the order has arrived if not Saturday ...
PS the Vet told me to turn the dial on the pen and shoot out the insulin until I had a good flow to recharge this pen to get rid of the bubbles but they are still there ..... do you remember how the pen works @Alexi ?
You're right, (memory hiccup!) but hopefully Alexi might be familiar with it as a Caninsulin user.
All I meant by the food comment is that if Smiffy usually eats biscuits for breakfast but today ate some soft food, her intake of biscuits would be less and therefore her overall intake of carbs would be less. Just supposition on my part but you'd have to judge that knowing just how much of each Smiffy has consumed.
I am not familiar with the pen but you might try this to get rid of the bubbles, hold the pen upright with the needle end pointing upwards and give it some sharp flicks with the finger to encourage the bubbles to come right to the top, then fire a dose out with the pen with it still upright, flick again a few times and shoot it out again, hopefully air will shoot out with the insulin and clear the bubbles. Repeat as many times as necessary.
I am not feeding Smiffy wet food for her main meals yet until I am sure she is going to like it and eat it all so today for example she had her biscuits for breakfast and had a snack on her biscuits around her Nadir, then at about +5 after I took the +4 reading of 11.5 I divided an 85g sachet of the fishy flakes between Smiffy and Pasha ....
The good news is Smiffy ate about half of hers instead of just licking it (like she does meat Felix) and kept to HER bowl on HER side of the room instead of muscling in on Pasha's bowl as she usually does.
The not so good news is that she only ate half of it (probably not hungry after eating her biscuits) so she had only 20g at the most of the wet food so I doubt it would have affected her readings.
Once I have got the new cartridge in (hopefully some time tomorrow if it is ready at the Vets) and I am sure I have no air bubbles this time and have checked the thread of the pen as Capoo suggested, then I will try and see if Smiffy will eat the wet food as a main meal ...... I will probably do that one evening (as long as both cats are in - complicated!) so that I am around for her Nadir can do a test on her at +3 and +4 .....
I was surprised at her 17.8 this morning after I had given her 1.5 units last night - that's the highest ever number she has got at home which is why it made me think that the bubbles might be diluting so to speak the dose I gave her last night especially now as there is not a lot of insulin left in the cartridge (so the percentage space the bubbles take up is greater than when there is more insulin in there) Does that make sense?
You are right that is how one charges the pen in the first place .... just tried flicking it and the bubbles won't budge - really annoying tried three shots as you suggested and the bubbles won't budge ......
mmm I can't repeat it too many times and shoot out too much insulin as there is not a lot left ....
DH is hopefully picking up a new cartridge tomorrow morning or Saturday so I can start all over again.
The less insulin there is in there the more diluted my shots or what I think I am giving her will be don't you think? Same principal as a syringe I imagine?
At least I can be confident to give her 1.5 units tonight if really the amount I am giving her is a bit less than that .....
OK I understand about the food now. Timelines blur with the written word so I thought perhaps it was breakfast when she had eaten the wet food.
Your hypothesis about the bubble makes sense to me.
Her evening preshot is 13.7 which is much more in line with her numbers recently so I am now thinking may have stressed out this morning that I don't know about to have got that 17.8 reading ....
I will see how much she eats now before I decide on what shot to give her ...... she was 13.7 so gave her a 1.5 unit shot ... will do a +3 reading
Her +2 reading is 12.3 and ..... oh I feel asslep for her +3 and +4 ...... nevermind ...
Thank you Linda
Smiffy's 1.5 units seemed to have the dersired effect despite the bubbles ..... not such good news on the wet food front but will keep trying
@Deb & Spot you seem to appear a lot on the Caninsulin/Vetsulin Forum ..... I would be very interested to know what you think of Smiffy and her progress ...
@Alexi and @MrWorfMen's Mom my Vet just e-mailed to tell me not to worry about a couple of small air bubbles in the cartridge - she said it is quite normal!
Smiffy's numbers too high .... can change the cartridge on Monday so will see then if it makes a difference ...
@Alexi @MrWorfMen's Mom @BJM @Woodsywife and @Capoo
Looks like from Smiffy's readings today that the Caninsulin is lasting the full 12 hours - very pleased with her numbers today .... just need them to be in the blues again ....
Thanks for following her
Looby, I know it's difficult sometimes but if you could snag a couple of readings at +5 and +6 during the day cycle, I'm wondering if her nadir may be a little lower and a little later some days. Just a thought because a good portion of your blue numbers in the past have been after +4. While most cats on Caninsulin would nadir around +3/+4 or so, some do metabolize the insulin slower. The nadir is not necessarily at exactly the same time everyday either. Those tests might not show anything but could be a pleasant surprise too.
OK .......... Yes I see what you mean .... I used to do a +5 every day and recently I have been doing +4 so I will go back to the +5 readings and try to do a +6 as well and see if she is getting closer to those blue numbers after all - good idea
Her evening Nadir seems to be a bit earlier than +5 .... normally between +3 and +4 but that could be because she eats less in the evening for her shot most of the time.
@MrWorfMen's Mom @Alexi
I think you may be right Linda about Smiffy having her Nadir in the daily cycle at +5 as she was a nice 9.8.
Now I am wondering if her evening cycle is the same.
@Capoo, J'ai changee la cartouche aujourd'hui et les dents du piston ne sont pas abimes
Don't know what to call it in English? The screw thing in the pen does not have any broken 'teeth' so the reading we have been getting for the past month have been as accurate as they can be with a Vetpen.
Pleased about the 9.8 at +5 but not very happy with her preshot this morning of 16.9 but then she didn't eat much last night so I only have her one unit ..
A small improvement on the wet food issue - she ate some chicken flakes in jelly this afternoon instead of licking it but still left a lot .... not sure if she likes it or just wanted to seem to eat it because Pasha had some!!!
YEAH! What a nice surprise that is! The higher AMPS is likely because of the lesser dose last night so not to worry.
I think sometimes it's just to prove they CAN to the other cat but you'll never know for sure so keep trying!
@Looby & Smiify
Since the FDMB is a peer-reviewed message board based in the US, please translate remarks made in French to English for those of us who do not speak the language.
Of course .....
Actually I did translate the French in this last post and will do in the future ....
We wrote in French earlier on because it was a technical issue with the Vetpen and it was easier for me to understand what @Capoo was trying to tell me in her native language ... it is unlikely to occur again as her English is on the whole more or less perfect ...... technical jargon is always a bit tricky
Smiffy is top cat and has always been jealous of Pasha .... she will always go to Pasha's bowl for food rather than her own to eat and has to be told "No" and I gently move her to her own bowl ..... this is how we got to having their bowls on opposite sides of the room as poor Pasha was being bullied ......
Had to play musical bowls again today with the chicken flakes but at least Smiffy ate a bit of it
@MrWorfMen's Mom @Alexi
Smiffy was only 13.3 preshot this evening but gave her 1.5 units ..... will try to take a +4 number tonight ...
Can Smiffy lead a long and happy life on the numbers she is on at the moment? She seems so much her old self now? But I do just have to think that she may not get her numbers lower not matter how hard I try .... I'm not saying I a going to settle for these numbers and give up on trying to get her to eat wet food but just say she never did get to the stage where she woulndn''t eat wet for her main meals - could she live happily for any length of time stabalised on her current numbers?
I know - big question ....
Looby, I don't think anybody can answer that question. Cats don't tend to not have the detrimental effects of hyperglycemia to the same degree as humans but then I think that would depend on just how high their numbers are and how long they have been that way. Obviously it's optimal to get them to as close to normal range as possible for as many hours per day as possible but a lot of vets don't aim for the low numbers we try to achieve here either. Maybe a good question to pose to Rebecca, Smiffy's vet.
Yes I will ask Roberta ...... just wondered if you had experience of anybody that has had a cat live for years on the sort of number that Smiffy is getting ..... at least her numbers are mostly 'yellows' and 'blues' .... certainly think Roberta is not like her first Vet who was as you describe not looking for low numbers .... she has a much broader perpective on the matter and seems to want to get Smiffy lower as low as we can get her ...... I just hope Smiffy's pancreas has not suffered too much to be able to start producing its own insulin again ..... I think Smiffy may have been diabetic for some time before she was diagnosed .... when I think of how poorly she was then for that week before her diagnosis - I thought I was losing her and now if you could see her - loving her little life and her bright eyes
AMPS 18.4!!! What's going on? She coughed up a bit of grass - do you think that stressed her out @MrWorfMen's Mom or @Alexi ?
If Smiffy was eating grass, maybe she has a hairball she 's trying to purge. I've seen that raise BG on occasion.
It could be ....... that has happened before with Smiffy ...
Her +4.5 was 9.4 so she has come down.
Also just realised that both our neighbours are out and about today and Smiffy and I are trapped! There is a communal path between each of our two gardens out the back and we have an extra plot further down which is where Smiffy and I go to sit in the shade of the eucalyptus tree ..... one neighbour has a toddler and has her sister's two boys out there as well in teh passage we need to go down to get to our other garden and the other neighbour has a horrible little yappy terrier jack russell dog that is behind their top garden gate at the moment because of the children but on other occasions they let the dog out to run around Smiffy and my garden where it poos on our grass ...... they only look after it for their daughter but we have heard they are staying there for two months now before they go back on their boat so Smiffy and I are stuck ..... I daren't take Smiffy to our garden in case they later let the dog out and we get cornered .... Smiffy is not as fast as the dog by any stretch of the imagination .... I am stressed so Smiffy is going to be stressed .... hopefully the children will only be there for one day ..... poor Smiffy ..... and poor me! I will try to get her to our first bottom garden for a bit of fresh air ..... and see if she can relax there for a bit ....
Smiffy's numbers have calmed down now ... she as only 12.6 preshot tonight but she ate quite a bit so I gave her 1.5 units in the hope that she will be lower at her AMPS tomorrow
I managed to take her out for a walk and to sit in her favourite spot for a about an hour after all - managed to get her past the children but had to carry her past the dog behind the gate bless her
Smiffy's prehot this morning is again high at 16.5 which is again much higher than her nice evening preshot number of 12.6 last night ...
This time I think it might be because she peed outside her litter tray because unusually Pasah had done her poo at the back of the tray when she normally does it outside.
Would that be enough to stress her a bit with embarassment and raise her BG?
It is just that I have done nothing differenly and yet for the past week her morning preshot numbers are higher than usual before and after I changed the cartridge in her Caninsulin pen so there is nothing wrong with the pen.
She seems a bit lethargic today despite coming for a walk with me and sitting in the sun with her for a hour or so ...
@Woodsywife @Alexi @MrWorfMen's Mom
Thank you for popping in to see Smiffy @Woodsywife - not had anybody else take an interest yet from the post I placed on the Caninsulin Forum - I really wanted to get some people with experience of Caninsulin to come here to the Main Forum to see Smiffy ... well there is a time difference so I need to be patient
I have already upped her dose by giving her a 1.5 unit shot in the morning as well as in the evening ... I am reluctant to give her 2 units as when she first went on Caninsulin she had 2 hypos on 2 units.
We seem to have reached a plateau now ... her AMPS today was better but her numbers didn't go down much but there was some disturbance going on in the gardens so maybe she is not as relaxed as she was yesterday ... still managed to sit out with her today and get her used to our neighbours bless her.
I am reluctant to use syringes - honestly I don't want to but I will mention it to her Vet at some point.
Looby, the Caninsulin forum is not active. Folks who post there initially are directed to Health. The number of people using Caninsulin and the other faster acting insulins lessened over the years so they just told folks to post on Health. There may have been more Caninsulin users joining lately but the numbers are still small in comparison to the other insulins so posting on Health is still the best place to get assistance.
I know you are not keen on using the syringes but it would give you the ability to try 1.75u instead of 2u which might just be enough to get those numbers down a tad while keeping Smiffy from going too low.
How have Smiffy's numbers been today Looby? Hope the nuisance in your gardens disappear very soon so you can both have some peace.
I would have to get my Vet to show me how to use them ........ I am really not keen ....
I will have a look at the Health Forum - thanks for the tip Oh this IS the Health Forum!
Smiffy's numbers are a bit better today at least .....
Smiffy's numbers have all been in the yellows today so that is better than yesterday - they are not bad at all - she just had a run of high AMPS over the last week that worried me a bit. Are you able to see her spreadsheet? You could tell me what you think?
The neighbours are still out there but it was quieter today so we could go for our little walk and sit under the eucalptus tree in her favourite spot with no interruptions
@MrWorfMen's Mom @Alexi @Louise1989 @Capoo @Woodsywife
Some brilliant (slightly worrying because they are so good if you know what I mean!) numbers today for you to look at
Looking good! I know those lower numbers can be a bit of a jolt at first. We've all been there. As long as you are monitoring, Smiffy will be just fine. Be interesting to see her PMPS tonight.
Yes it's great until she got chased by a snappy young terrier that our neighbours daughter let out into the communal passage and run around our bottom garden instead of keeping it in the their top garden and behind the gate ... sooo inconsiderate - they know cats are about and Geoff knows that I take Smiffy down to the far garden each day .... they should NOT let it run around our garden - there is no fence there .... just got injured ... I had to pick her up but she escaped and fled and just about got away in time .....+7 now risen of course and is now 8.2 - poor girl.
I posted on the FB page to find out if there is a low carb dry food available in the UK that has 'better' ingredients than Hill's m/d as I was told that Hills is one of the worst dry foods. I posted for my benefit and for the benefit of others in the UK that are still trying to get their cats on to wet and apparently there are no dry foods on the list here but one girl gave me four options that are new to me two of which are available in the UK ...... one is Porta 21 Sensible grain free that is less than 10% percent carbs and the other is Thrive 90% protein with allegedly all the minerals and vitamins that a cat needs so I have ordered both to see if our cats like them.
Of course I will continue to try to get Smiffy interested in wet - today she was not interested again but I will keep trying even though I am wasting a lot of food .
Yes I am looking forward to seeing what her preshot is tonight as long as she has recovered from being chased by the dog ..... it has taken me all summer to give her the confidence to to down to this lovely spot in her garden since the family with the dog moved out last year and now I don't know if she is going to trust me ...... the dog belongs to the daughter of the people that own the house ...
I think in the fleet of the moment I asked Becky to keep the dog in their top garden ( there is not fence around their bottom garden so our garden merges with theirs) and that I take Smiffy down to the bottom garden but I didnt stop to have a discussion about it nor did I lose my temper even though I wanted to .... I have only just stopped shaking!
Will update you tonight
Thanks for supporting Smiffy .... she is the important one ....
What do you mean? Did you get claws or teeth or what? Nothing serious I hope!
No not serious - Smiffy escaped from me and scathced me .. one puncture just caused a lot of blood but was worse than it seemed at the time - it was a claw puncture ...... I am sooooo cross ....
Why has the typeface changed all of a sudden?
Thank you for your concern ...
What do you think about the alterntive dry foods - might be a bit better for her - could mix them with her current biscuits until change to them or just mix them in every day? What do you think? I suppose I should check with her Vet - we are still a way off getting her onto wet food ....
Oh the typeface is sans serif Helvetica when I write a post but ends up back to seriffed Times Roman as soon as I have posted my reply ... very odd!
Those numbers look good today. I can't help with the food. I've never heard of them. Glad no one was hurt.
I will let you know what her preshot is this evening
Looby, out of the those 2 foods, I would think the Porta 21 is the better choice based on what I can see on the websites. Both are very high is fats so portion control will be very important. Both have sweet potatoes which are high glycemic but it's much higher in the ingredients list for the Thrive so more of a concern there. That said, my cat's food has Tapioca which is also high glycemic and it doesn't seem to have affected her at all. There are also some low carb dry foods in the US without any highly suspect ingredients that folks have noticed causing their cat's BG to go up, so to some degree, this is going to depend on how Smiffy does with each. They both look like decent foods protein ingredient wise.
Nice numbers! I have had a look at the UK foods list Elizabeth put together, the only low carb dry foods listed are the ZiwiPeak air dried - available from amazon. Scroll to the bottom of the list and they are there, the beef has the lowest carbs. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J5JpMe6TDXrHq_aTl9hUtHy6Gs9oRBqlz4nPGKxtySA/pubhtml
Smiffy's evening preshot is 11.4 so I thin 1.5 units is too much ..... if she eats a good amount I will
Yes but I can only find the feline version on Amazon uk in small 400g bags and is not enconical at all ..... the other two have come with a personal recommendation and they both seem really good content wise .... the Ziwi is less than 10 per cent but so is the grain-free Porta 21 Sensible and is in chicken flavour that I know she likes and the Thrive is 90% protein and also in chicken flavour - both available on Amazon uk in larger bags ... I have now ordered both to try but still have a note of the Ziwi just in case It ight be a good idea for Elizabeth to include these two on the list but I have no influence over that ...... if they are a hit with Smiffy I will post their details on Facebook - not sure if I could post them here? Of course all of these are just until I get Smiffy on wet or in case I can't and for the benefit of other UK owners with the same dilemna as me
Just done Smiffy's evening and it is 11.4 so I am just going to give her one unit instead of 1.5 and try to test her at +3 or +4 to make sure she doesn't go too low again ...
Sounds like a great plan. Smiffy had a cycle of beauty today. Hope she keeps it up!
Thanks for that and that is an important point about the portion control ..... I give Smiffy portion controlled amounts of Hill's m/d so to begin with I am going to have to be careful for botht her BG also her weight control because we are aiming to get her to shed a bit (she has lost a bit slowly and healthily in the last two months).
It will be trial and error .... I am going to cut and paste and save what you have said here so that I get my facts straight - thank you for the reserach
I am just going to tag @manxcat419 with this information too.
I will let you know how we get on with them
Yes she has had her one unit and hopefully won't drop too low but nicely low and it will be interesting to see what happens tomorrow
PS I have just been to the food list myself and whilst I can read the introduction (where actually Elizabeth DOES mention the other two foods just beneath the Ziwi Peak) but I can't scroll down the spreadsheet part of it which lists only wet food
Decisions decisions .. preshot 12.2 this evening but not eating much ..... good Nadir today at +4 she was 9.2 .....
Try to give her to eat a bit more food .....
I gave her 1.5 units ....
@MrWorfmen's Smiffy is 18.7 this morning ... do you think it is the stress of the dog that we ran into in the gardens or do you think she is bouncing from some of the nice numbers she has been getting.
For a couple of months now as you know I have been taking Smiffy for a walk each day to her garden and sitting with her in the sun .... because of the threat of the dog (even though he is not there all the time Smiffy has not wanted to follow me for the last couple of days and since then her numbers have gone up.
She is now 9.7 at +3 which is much better but she seems depressed poor thing.
can you get a fence between you and the neighbor's property?
It's complicated ... bit of a debate as to who pays for it, what sort of fence etc .... it's two side of the garden that are exposed ..... the owners are about to sell up too so probably will have to talk to the new owners now about a fence and hope that if they have a dog the decency to keep their dog in their top garden. The dog was only visiting the other day and belongs to the daughter of the people that own the garden .... she just doesn't care about letting the dog run round the two gardens.
Even if I had been on my own I would have been miffed .... just relaxing in the garden and then a dog runs around me yapping at my heels!
The dog is not there all the time but the damage is done now ..... just took Smiffy out today and she won't go down the passage ..... tried to lift her up gently and carry her past the dog's gate but she hissed and wanted to be put down ... she is now outside the back door ...
The owners are doing some landscaping so making a noise so she has really lost her confidence ... of course they are entitled to do that - it's when they look after the dog or their daughter comes round.
The dog lived there with the daughter for a year but moved out in the Autumn so it is only this year and summer that I have been able to get Smiffy confident again to go down to our bigg garden ... took weeks of caoxing ... now scared stiff again ..... I feel so sorry for her .....
DH won't say anything ..... I let them know politely how I felt so maybe the onwers will not let their daughter let the dog out again!
Wanting to know how I can get this hight AMPS shot down a bit ..... don't want to give her 2 units (gave her 1.5) as she was down to 8.9 at +5 @MrWorfMen's Mom @Alexi @Louise1989
If you put it on. Your side of the property line, and get a permit for it, then how does the neighbor have a say? And with no fence any current outings with the dog must require a leash. It's not fair their dog destroy and deficate on your property, or that you can't enjoy your yard the way you want.
Just managed to take Smiffy for a walk so progress even though she only stayed outside for about 15 minutes .. I am going to build up her confidence again slowy
I know but my hands are tied ......we live in such close proximity with our neighbours and we also have access down the side of their house at the moment to take our bins out (this is a row of small Victorian cottages) so we can't afford to fall out with them ..... DH is in charge of it really and he doesn't like confrontation!
The permit system you are referring to doesn't exist in the UK.
Honestly it is a real problem.
Hopefully the new owners will be reasonable and sensible and we can come to some agreement - that is once the house is sold.
Just managed to get Smiffy down there for 15 minutes before she came back to the house so that is progress.
I agree about the dog .... so inconsiderate
Looby, many kitties have a habit of going lower at night so if Smiffy is going a little lower during the night, those higher AMPS numbers could be a bit of a bounce from numbers she is not accustomed to. If that's the case, they may level off given some time. The only other thing you could try is upping the dose to 1.75u but that is going to require the syringes. You have got room for some movement without Smiffy being in any danger but it would be much safer to try a dose between 1.5u and 2.0u to try to bring the numbers down a bit.
I wondered if she might be bouncing or maybe she ate some of her biscuits that I should have put away earlier.
I would have to goto the Vet or the Nurse to find out how to use the syringes ..... you know I am very apprehensive about using them ... especially as in the morning I am quite dopey because of the drugs I take at night (which I am on programme to reduce but the withdrawal is hard so very slow - involves an anti depressand and diazepam - down now to 5mg) ......
I understand what you are saying ...
I could still have the pen but have a separate cartridge in the fridge that I could take insulin from with the syringe when I want to do 0.25 increments ...
I am really not happy about syringes .... I have some so could find a video on You tube I guess and pratice with water and a tomato?
Looby, if you want to practice on fruit, I suggest a grapefruit or an orange would be a better target. Tomatoes might get a little messy and won't give you the same "feel"!
Yes you could keep the pen for full or half doses and only use the syringe for 1/4 dose increments but you never know....you might even find you like them once you get used to them. It's your decision to make but you won't lose anything by at least trying the syringes on some fruit. If you can get comfortable with them great, but if not, that's OK because you still have the pen to use.
Yes thinking about it a tomato would be a bit messy!!!! It's just that we have lots of them as we grow them .......
I am not sure when I am going to get a chance to get to the Vet or the Nurse to find out how to use a syringe ..... oh I so wish I was independent and could just get to the Vets by myself. I know I could watch something on Youtube but would prefer to be taught by a professional. Maybe I could at least open one up and have a go ..... I will need a jam jar or something to dispose of the needles as they won't fit into my sharps box. I will put an orange on the shopping list for DH Step by step and I might manage it.
She might have eaten too late last night and she may have dawn phenomenon or as I think you suggested (or somebody else suggested) she might still be bouncing from the 5.3 reading she had the other day.
Shame about the blasted dog espisode but I did make some progres with Smiffy today and get her down to her favourite spot for about 15 minutes before she started to make her way back to the house poor thing ... but that is better than not going out at all so it is something to build on.
I will see what happens over the next few days as I understand that bouncing from a low number can last for upto six cycles ... she got down to a half decent number today of 8.9.
Thanks Linda .... will let you know how I get on
@Kako & Tux
I am told by a mutual friend that you have experience with Caninsulin, I wondered if you would look at Smiffy's spreadsheet ... she is getting high AMPSs and dropping quite a lot during her day cycle which is a new trend for her.
There is some stress for her in our back gardens because there are recently more people and children and sometimes a dog out there which prevents Smiffy and going for our little walk and sit in the sun each day (she was chased by the dog three days ago poor thing). The garden situation is difficult to describe but one of the neighbours daughter visits with her little yappy terrier every now and again now whereas we have had a summer dog free. Could this raise her overall stress levels?
For some time we have thought that the Caninsulin was lasting the full 12 hours in Smiffy luckily as her numbers were pretty level througout the day but now there is definitley a more pronounced curve.
I would be very happy if you would have a look at her spreadsheet please. There is a summary of the outcome of her last trip to the Vet at the head of this thread for background information
It was good to see you on the Facebook page today
I value your opinion as you know so I wondered if you would also have a look at Smiffy's spreadsheet for me?
I am worried about her high AMPS numbers and then she drops quite a lot ...
For some time we have thought that the Caninsulin was lasting the full 12 hours in Smiffy luckily as her numbers were pretty level througout the day but now there is definitley a more pronounced curve.
Looby and Smiffy
Hello Looby! I am sorry that I didn't respond sooner.
Smiffy is beautiful. I love the photo.
I am glad that Smiffy is responding well to Caninsulin.
We were on Vetsulin for 3 weeks, and Tux didn't respond well to it. So we switched to Lantus.
When we were on Vetsulin, I was in panic seeing extreme high numbers... I was in fear that I may lose Tux.
I was advised to follow Tuxedo Mom, Critter Mom, and Mr WorfMen's Mom. They kindly gave me advice and I followed their advice.
Then Netherland joined, and she kindly advised me every morning and evening how much dose to give.
Netherland hasn't been on FDMB since 5/5 when she left for a trip. I am concerned about her, and hoping to see her on FDMB.
I am so sorry, I don't have enough experience to advice. Actually I don't remember much about Vetsulin.
How lovely to hear from you @Kako & Tux - lovely name
It was my dear friend @manxcat419 that told me about you ....
It would be lovely if you were to have the time to pop in and see Smiffy for general support from time to time even though you don't know much about Caninsulin anymore?
I have tagged Netherland but have not heard from her so I too hope she is OK even though I don't know her.
@MrWorfMen's Mom is helping me and she is lovely and very helpful, and sometimes @Alexi pops in but I don't have contact with @Tuxedo Mom at the moment.
I am on my own for a lot of the time and because of an illness have not left the house for a number of years so the FDMB and the Facebook page are a lifeline for me and Smiffy and it is nice to have a small network of support for Smiffy.
She is a bit of a tricky cat as she is only willing to snack on a bit of wet food but not willing to eat it as her main meal (yet) and, as you might remember it is essential that she eat a fair amount before I inject her with Caninsulin.
Do you know anybody else that I could tag that would want to help me with Smiffy? I haven't heard from @scoobydoox or @Capoo or @BJM for a while so I hope they are OK too.
Would be really nice to get to know you a bit so I hope Smiffy and I hear from you again
Looby and Smiffy
Overall Sniffy is looking good. I hope you find food likes.
Nice to hear from you
Yes she is not doing too badly ... don't like the high AMPS though.
Sorry what did you mean by food likes? Did you mean the dry foods that I have posted on FB for her try that are better than the Hills m/d whilst she is still trying wet food?
How is Smokey?
@MrWorfMen's Mom @Alexi
This is what Smiffy's Vet had to say in response to me sending her a copy of Smiffy's spreadsheet:
"I actually still think that curve is quite good; although we have slightly higher pre-shot numbers, they are coming down post-injection quite nicely and we're getting good numbers throughout the day. Could you continue on the same dose a little longer? We can then look again, and if the overall trend is higher then we can look at a dose increase, but I'm not sure it's warranted as yet. I'm still pleased with that curve, and you will get a little variation day-to-day. Maybe reassess the numbers in a week if you agree?
That sounds good on the feeding front; I think mixing in some lower carb food is a good idea. Applaws is also another one that has high meat content and lower carbs, they do a senior one that is lower fat. Definitely worth trying the ones you already have first though."
What do you think? Smiffy hardly ate anything this morning so I only have her one unit instead of 1.5 and she was still down to 10 by +3 .... but now at +7 she is 13.3 mmmmm.
I missed a few words in the sentence. I have not looked on the FB page recently. I was just commenting on you post above. Hoping you find a wet food she likes and will eat more and a suitable dry food.
Smokey in my opinion is doing great on all fronts. His preshots are still mid 200's but he will hit some 100's during the day. He has not had any 300's in a week. So for now I'm keeping him here so he gets use to these before trying to get a little lower. His heart and asthma has finally seemed to stabilize as he has not coughed, wheezed, whistled, gurgled etc. in over a month. September is his follow up echo and then regular vet appt.
I'm trying to get my own appointment scheduled in between Smokey's and traveling to my dad's for his care.
Sorry not to answer sooner, I was enjoying the sun of Morocco...
Smiffy looks really good, and it seems that your pen doesn't have any problem (you have just changed the cartridge, and on the contrary to last month, you can see a decrease in her BG just after the change, so the pen is working fine).
It seems that you're currently trying to mix wet food with dry food : that's really good news!
I can give you some advises about wet food available on Zooplus, as I have already tested a lot of brands and flavors!
I saw that your vet has recommended Applaw. You can also try Almo : they have really small cans that you can mix with dry food, cats are usually crazy with them (Almo is only a complementary wet food, withtout any additive).
Those numbers sound good and I think you are right not to rush things .... Smiffy's Vet has said the same thing to me to keep her as she is for a little while longer before upping her dose ....
Great news that Smokey is not coughing so it looks like you have that under control too - well done you !
Aww is your Dad sick? I am sorry to hear that ..
Take care and stay in touch
How lovely to have had such a wonderful holiday in a beautiful country
Yes the Vetpen works fine thank goodness!
Whilst I am trying to get Smiffy on wet food still (she seems to like the fishy flakey Sheba that I have bought so I am gong to stick with that for the time being), I am trying to at least mix at least mix a bit of lower carb dry food into her diet as that is what she usually has for now ... the Applaws dry food is the one recommended by the Vet but I have found Thrive 90% protein which she seems to like and Porta21 Sensible which is also seems to iike.
So overall, even though she is still eating dry I am trying to give her as low a carb diet as possible .... I have lots of food in the house now!!!!
I will have a look at Almo later thank you .. just writing it down
Lovely to hear from you,
Yes, I remember those days when I had to wait for Tux to eat good amount of food before injections.
Tux is a slow eater because he is missing a big tooth and several little teeth. He was hit by a car before he came to my door.
Now with Lantus I don't need to wait for one-two hour(s) for him to eat. It is a big relief.
I don't know anyone who is experienced in Caninsulin besides people you know already.
Probably by now you are one of most experienced people on Caninsulin!
I may be soon!!! I think I have to wait for Smiffy to be eating lower carb food and see what that does to her numbers before I am a really expert!
I do help a couple of girls but most people change to Lantus whereas Smiffy's numbers were showing that she was one of the lucky ones for whom the Caninsulin starts to last the full 12 hours but more recently her numbers have changed and her curve is more pronounced so really I am still being suprised by the insulin which is why @MrWorfMen's Mom and @Alexi and anybody else that could follow us would be so helpful.
Just reading your brief resume about Tux .... he found you to be his Mum which is very special
His numbers seem very up and down! I was expecting him to have more level numbers on Lantus?
Would like to hear more about him
Thanks for asking about my father. No he isn't sick. He is 86 and becoming frail. He was use to my mother making all the appointments. He hasn't been to see a doctor of any kind in 1 1/2 years. He has always kept everything and I'm trying to get rid of old papers and the 1000's of vcr tapes he has, just to name a few. He had the heat on at the same time the air conditioning is on. I'm 3-4 hrs away and can only go when my husband who works out of state is here to take care of the animals. I'm trying to get there at least once a month. I only stay overnight. But it's hard.
Gosh it must be so hard and heart breaking too ......
When we are younger we never think about how our parents are going to be in their old age and it can come as quite a shock.
Does he have helpers around him or friends that help him out?
You are a good daughter but it must be very worrying.
Yes and no for helpers. My husband stays there 3 or 4 days when he is working. There is a housekeeper for a couple of hours a week when my father remembers to be there. Neighbor shovels the snow in the winter. Yard work is taken care of. It's the not eating properly and the times he's alone. He shuffles when he walks. Prime target to get mugged when he goes out. He doesn't want live in help nor does he want to use his long term care insurance and go to assisted living. And he won't come live with me. So he's not making it easy.
@MrWorfMen's Mom @Alexi
Smiffy turned her nose up at a mixture of her Hills m/d and new lower carb dry food Porta 21 Sensible this morning and she was preshot 18.1 but as she didn't eat I only gave her half a unit and by +4 she was down to 10 so glad I didn't give her more but glad I gave her at least some.
Oddly she ate the wet food that I gave her for 'lunch'!
I hope she eats tonight so I am keeping her hungry now so that I can I give her a higher shot tonight if she is high.
She seems well enough in herself and just been for a walk with her which helps I know now to bring down her BG as long as the dog is not out there
Smifffy is eating again today thank goodness
I'm quite convinced of one thing : when Smiffy will only eat wet food, and she's on the way to succeed, she will no more need insulin.
That's my true feeling!
I really hope you are right we are getting there ....
Do I detect a bit of a spiritual soul in you? I can recognise it in people because I am spirtual myself and have intuitions about things that I can't explain sometimes - are you the same?
Wow I just looked at Capoo's spreadsheet - the wet food really made all the difference didn't it?!
I will keep trying. In the meantime I am mixing a good quality 90% chicken dry food that I have found to mix into her normal dry so hopefully that plus her wet food snack will make a little difference.
I'm exactly the same. And that's even truer with numbers : when looking at a table of numerous numbers, I can instantly detect the patent or the wrong number. Maybe it's because I deal with numbers all day long.
For sure! That's the power of wet food!
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