? Smoky has pancreatitis,vet not sure what to do,any advice for natural pain meds?

I can't get pain meds for smoky until at least Monday. Does anyone know of any natural remedies I can give him? I noticed he has a gurgling tummy lately and has a sad look in his eyes. Plus he makes these sad little sounds, almost like a whimper. I think he might be hurting.

 

1/4 of a 10 mg tab of Pepcid AC might help with the gurgling tummy

 

OK thanks

 

awe poor baby, sorry I can't help. My cat recently had pancreatitis. He was a sad little fellow for a few days. Luckily he's pretty much back to normal now.

 

Would you happen to know how high the alpha Trak meter reads up to? I have a relion meter which only reads HI if number is over 600.

 

I believe 750

 

OK thanks. I'm not sure I'm comfortable using the relion meter I have. It only tells me that smokys BG is over 600 but I don't know how much over that number it is.

 

What did you do to treat your kitty's pancreatitis? Also, how in the world did CC get off the juice in just a few months time? I am having such a hard time even getting smokys numbers out of the pinks and blacks.

 

Once it's that high, it really doesn't matter if it's 601 or 750....it's too high

Too high is too high....the exact number isn't important at that point.

 

I'm trying to figure out how long it might take BG to go down following a UTI. Smoky has been on metronidizole since Monday night and he was still over 600 AMPS today. I'm getting ready to check him again tonight. I recently increased his dose from 2.75 units to 3 Sat morning.

 

Could the pancreatitis be affecting his numbers? It's an inflammatory process.

 

Smokys vet thinks he might have triaditis.
The ultrasound showed marked inflammation in his pancreas, liver, and bowls. I'm not sure at this point if I should continue with the 3 units or go back to 2.75. I say this because his BG was almost 100 less last night on the lower dose.

 

Honestly I credit the young again food with her remission. Within two weeks I started seeing drastically lower numbers. That and over the summer I didn't work so I made it my mission to test as often as I could and study her spreadsheet to find patterns that would help me adjust her doses.


Zimmy's pancratitis was sparked by his kidney disease. Vet put him on cerenia for nausea and a pain killer. I gave him lots of b12 and daily sub q's (100 ml per day) to keep him hydrated. He was diagnosed on Sat.... Thankfully by Wed he started eating almost normally... Now a week later he's fine. I gave him the cerenia and pain killers until Wednesday but then he was eating ok and didn't seem to need it anymore. He had already been having sub q's three times a week so he wasn't as dehydrated as many cats get with pancreatitus.

 

I'm glad to see you upped the dose to 3. I have a feeling you'll be going higher then that.

 

Smoky drinks a lot of water per day so not sure if he is dehydrated. I did the skin test and it does take a second or two for it to go back. I'm calling his vet on Monday morning to ask about the cerenia and some pain meds for him. I can ask the vet about sub q fluids too. I am picking up a copy of his test results on Monday from his ultrasound he had a few weeks back.

 

Do his gums feel wet or do they feel sticky/tacky/ dry?

 

I usually like to keep a new dose for at least 3 to 5 days.

 

When Zimmy started feeling sick I of course noticed he wasn't eating, but also that he only peed like 3 times the day before his diagnosis.... And that was after getting fluids. He also laid down next to the water bowl and tested his head on it. That was really unusual for him. Once we learned what was going on with him and got him fluids he was much more comfortable. You should ask the vet about that too on Monday.

 

They feel wet although only a little bit.

 

Smoky does that too sometimes with his water bowl. He drinks water a half dozen times in an hour plus he pees a lot several times a day. I have been testing him for ketones in the past several weeks and so far they have been negative for ketones but very high in blood glucose. I use ketodiastix to test him.

 

Pain from the triaditis / pancreatitis Could be causing the elevated numbers.

 

Does your vet have an answering service so you could get him some pain meds sooner? How about e-mail? If you google his name, or the name of the clinic, you might be able to get an emergency number or email. Is there a Pet ER you could call. It breaks my heart to have a pet in pain

 

Unfortunately, I live in a smaller town. I do have a 24/7 vet near me but it would be extremely expensive to take him there.
His regular vet clinic is an old fashioned place with only regular voice mail. I did send them an email but it might take days for them to get back to me.

I'm going to go down to the specialist who did the ultrasound 4 weeks ago tomorrow morning to get the results printed out. I'll take those down to his regular vet and wait to talk to his vet about getting cerenia and pain meds.

 

@Lisa and Smoky

Where in PA? I'm in Archbald/Dickson City area. If your close I have cerenia.

 

You are kind of far from me I think.
I'm about 50 miles from Philadelphia or 20 miles from Allentown. I'm about a 2 and a half hour drive from you.

 

I'm about 2 hrs from Phili and an hour from Allentown. I guess that is to far. If your vet won't give you any. Let me know and I can mail it.

 

Is he eating or nautious? Or just pain?

 

He is eating but still seems nauseous.
He acts like he is hurting a lot. He has been sleeping almost all day. He was hanging his head over the water bowl but not drinking all that much. plus making little whimpering sounds.

 

I was able to get in a +3 and a +6 today.
AMPS was over 600 again, +3 was 349, and +6 was 362. I didn't get back in time to do any further tests. I wil be doing his PMPS in about 2 hours so will see where he is then. He just finished eating about 10 minutes ago and seems hungry but looks sick at the same time.

 

Poor little guy

 

I gave him something for nausea about 20 minutes ago. He had some Metoclopramide the vet had prescribed for him a month ago. I had heard on this site that med is an old one and there are newer ones now.

 

I hope he feels better. Cats don't show pain or being ill to protect themselves from predators. If he is whimpering, he is really in bad condition. I hope he can see the vet first thing in the morning.

 

Smoky's regular vet won't treat him for pain. He basically doesn't even want to see him for a recheck, just referred me to expensive hospitals. He said he needs injectable pain killers. He neglected to mention that the cat has to be hospitalized for that. The first 24 hours in a hospital runs about $1500.

I can't afford to do that so now I have to try and run around and find him another vet. Every new place I take him to is going to charge me an exam fee so that could be costly.

 

???? One pain killer that's often prescribed for adminstration at home is buprenorphine. It's an opiate that comes in liquid solution and you use a thin needle-less syringe to squirt a small dose into the pocket of the cheek. Is there another regular vet near you who might be willing to Smoky on?

 

I made an appt for tomorrow at a cats only clinic near me.

 

Smoky didn't want to eat much this morning. I gave him a reduced dose of 2.25 down from the 3 units he has been getting since Sat morning. His BG was over 600 at AMPS and 300 at +5 and 434 at PMPS. My question is his pm shoot is in 30 minutes, what dose should I give him based on his BG numbers so far today?

 

He has a UTI for the past 10 days and is taking antibiotics for it.

 

I'd probably do 3. Gotta get that number down. 3 won't bring it too low, even if he's eating a bit less. I hope he feels better soon. I'm glad you got an appointment at a cat specialist. Make sure you show them your spreadsheet.

 

I took him to a cats only clinic but the vet didn't even look at his spreadsheet. She said unless I am using Alpha Trak pet meter the results can't be relied upon to be accurate. I was thinking about giving him 3 units too since his numbers have been really high lately.

 

What about the pain or pancreatitis did they say anything?

 

She thought Denamarin might help smoky as well as a change of insulin.
She wants to do a full blood workout before prescribing any medications which us normal for vets

 

I'm not sure what to do about smoky. His regular vet said that running all that bloodwork again so soon would not tell them anything new, had it done on Sept 1.
The vet at the cats clinic wants to do a CBC, an in-house curve, test for pancreatitis, a fructosamine test, and a urinalysis. She also suggested switching to prozinc pzi to see how he does on that.

Smoky just had a urinalysis done on Nov 7 He has never had a fructosamine test done yet. I have to get all of the above done at the cat clinic to switch to the prozinc but my regular vet will give me prozinc and Denamarin w/o doing all of that.

 

The fructosamine test will just tell the vet how Smokey's BG control has been over the previous many weeks. There's some kind of rating scale it gives from poorly controlled to well controlled. If you're testing daily and keeping records it won't really add much useful info. The urinalysis results might possibly be different now because it's been 2.5 months since the last one. A pancreatitis test is a good idea given the pain Smokey has been experiencing and it's a common problem in FD kitties. I don't see the need for a stress-inducing in house BG curve short of the vet wanting to use her own monitoring equipment. As for switching to ProZinc, it's your call. it's more expensive than Vetsulin but its dosing and action will be familiar to you.

My thoughts only ...

 

Oops I goofed on the date for last urinalysis, it was Nov 7 not Sept 1. I corrected it in my post.

 

What kind of bloodwork does he need done for pancreatitis test? The ultrasound results indicate possible chronic pancreatitis along with triaditis and IBD.

 

There's a quick test for pancreatitis that can be done by the vet but only gives a yes/no answer essentially. There's a more expensive pancreatitis test that needs a blood sample to be sent away to a lab but it gives more information about what's going on.

 

My regular vet doesn't even think it's necessary to run a pancreatitis test. He says all it will tell him is that smoky is unregulated which he already knows. They don't carry prozinc or Denamarin which vet says is a supplement for the liver. He has to order both of those for me

 

Hi Lisa,

I'm really sorry to hear about Smoky's pancreatitis and possible triaditis Dx. Been there ... ((Smoky))

Hogwash. The pancreatitis tests don't have anything to do with BG regulation; they are used to assess possible pancreatic inflammation. SNAP fPL blood test will give an immediate yes/no result for presence of inflammation; Spec fPL blood test needs to be sent to an external lab and gives a numeric indicator of level of severity of inflammation.

Metoclopramide isn't a great anti-nausea med for cats (they don't have many of the receptors it targets). Ondansetron is a very good med for nausea, Cerenia also helps with nausea but may be better as an anti-emetic.

Denamarin helps with the liver and may help the pancreas, too. A course of B12 injections can help with both GI issues and appetite as well as giving a general boost.

If Smoky's that uncomfy buprenorphine is the recommended treatment for pain associated with pancreatitis. Relieving the pain can help resolve the flare faster, too.

Feeding smaller, more frequent meals with a little added water helps (proper hydration is key to managing the pancreatitis). As and when you can manage it, Lisa, getting hold of a timed feeder (e.g. Petsafe 5) would help you both enormously; I know your schedule is very tricky.

Useful links (especially the IDEXX document):

IDEXX Pancreatitis Treatment Guidelines

Nausea, vomiting and appetite problems - symptoms and treatment

I hope Smoky feels better very soon.




Mogs
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The spec fPL test is the one that the vet at the cats only clinic wants to do, and a fructosamine test too. She's very much against any meter that is not an alpha Trak. She does seem to have more experience with issues that cats have and how to treat them. My schedule is a little better now that I work regular hours and days each week.

By the way, my vet only wants to use meds that have been out a long time. I have asked him about newer meds for smoky. He is only willing to prescribe certain meds, insulin, or treatment plans that they use in their clinic. This is the same vet who told me to increase dose from 3 units to 4 all at once. I am not going to do that as I am afraid it may cause smoky to have a hypo even though his BG numbers have been very high lately.

 

The IDEXX document has details of all recommended meds, Lisa. Given that they're a world centre of excellence for feline pancreatitis treatment I hope the document will help you to get the right treatments for Smoky. My vet had not prescribed ondansetron before I asked for it for Saoirse (he initially prescribed metoclopramide for her - I wasn't one bit happy about that because on top of it not being very effective as a nausea treatment for nausea in felines it also has a dodgy side effect profile) but I persisted and got her the ondansetron generic. It worked MUCH better for her and our vet was happy to prescribe it for her thereafter.

I'm glad to hear that your schedule has eased up a bit, Lisa.


Mogs
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Perhaps show her the document attached below; it's a published, peer reviewed study from the University of Queensland which advocates the use of human meters as being suitable for monitoring of feline diabetics' BG levels.


Mogs
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I hope your vet gave you something for pain--or you consider looking for a new vet. When pancreatitis or any inflammation starts especially with a diabetic you can really help by jumping on it quickly before the pain gets too ahead of you. I have a box of medicines "just in case"
I hope things are better...prayers

 

Sounds like you would get better care for Smokey by switching to the cat vet - if you can afford the extra tests and can "work with" her assertiveness.

 

I thought about asking the vet at cat clinic about just running some of the tests for now. I'm hoping she won't give me an all or nothing approach. Maybe just the spec fPL to see how bad the inflammation is and the regular bloodwork.

 

Maybe she'd agree if you're as forthright as you can be about wanting to do what's best for Smokey but have to watch your budget, etc. A little "stroking" like mentioning that she seems to be on top of how to treat FD and you'd like to have her expertise to draw upon wouldn't hurt either. This is a situation where exercising a few "people skills" can work for you.

 

T

Thanks for the file, I will print it out for the vet at the cats only clinic. I am wondering about the in house curve being done, is that really necessary?

 

The problem with in house curves is that many kitties have higher bg levels due to vet induced stress. This can lead to an incorrect dosage of insulin beimg prescribed. If your vet is insisting on you using an alphatrak, it would be less expensive for you to buy an alphatrak and strips for purposes of an in home curve. Or better yet, ask to borrow theirs and pay for the strips. My vet was also leary of me using a human meter. However, I was able to show her, that while the numbers differed, the trends were the same.

 

Both vets I have gone to told me they did not feel comfortable adjusting Smoky's insulin dosage unless I was using the alpha trak meter.
@Critter Mom sent me a useful file to print out and show them about using human meters.

 

So get an Alphatrak. It's a great meter. Even if you just use it for a weekly curve and the other for day to day.

 

Vet doesn't have to know which meter your using until you have some data to show them.

I started with the Alpha Trac and I will say when labs were done my AT matched the labs within 5 points. I switched to the Wal-Mart micro meter because of cost. My vet now recommends a human meter to his other clients.

 

That red at +2 last night is a bounce after the blue. Did you do more tests after that?

 

No I didn't do any more tests. I had planned to but kept falling asleep. I am planning on doing a curve today or tomorrow. Is it better to do a curve when starting a new dose or should a cat be on that dose a few days first?