So What Does This Mean?

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Greg and Goma & Friends, Jan 5, 2018.

  1. Greg and Goma & Friends

    Greg and Goma & Friends Member

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    Dec 8, 2017
    This morning we went through a bit of worry with a bg of 64 (separate thread) initially but recovered quickly and nicely. As a result of this we reduced dosage by 0.25 to 2.25. AMPS was 398 and as noted on our ss there has been little movement through +7.5. With the dose now beginning to weaken while I am holding onto hope I will be wrong, I am thinking there will be an unfortunate up swing back to black towards the evening dose. She has done well throughout the day, resting comfortably and jumping up on me when I had a chance to sit. Something she hasn't done in the past - and being formal feral - I understood and never pressed. I received great advice and information this morning by the way from @Djamila and I want to acknowledge this publicly and give my sincere thanks.

    All of you have been wonderful...

    So - Is this steadiness during the cycle a good sign or bad - I guess I am just trying to anticipate what type of night I will have...
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
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  2. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 25, 2013
    Sorry we weren't around when you posted this! It was early morning for most of us. I think you're seeing a bounce. That's completely normal and expected after that lower number. I'll try to find Kris's explanation on a bounce and post it in a sec...but basically it means she went low and her body wasn't expecting it so she released extra glucose and her numbe bounced back up! She might stay high and flat for a cycle or two until she clears the bounce.
     
  3. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 25, 2013
    Here's what Kris wrote about bouncing:

    Here's how it works:
    1. BG goes low OR lower than usual OR drops too quickly.
    2. Kitty's body panics and thinks there's danger (OMG! My BG is too low!).
    3. Complex physiologic processes take glycogen stored in the liver (I think of it as "bounce fuel"), convert it to glucose and dump it into the bloodstream to counteract the perceived dangerously low BG.
    4. These processes go into overdrive in kitties who are bounce prone and keep the BG propped up varying lengths of time (AKA bouncing).
    5. Bounce prone kitty repeats this until his body learns that healthy low numbers are safe. Some kitties are slow learners.
    6. Too high a dose of insulin can keep them bouncing over and over until the " bounce fuel" runs out and they crash - ie., have a hypo episode. That's why we worry so much about kitties that have had too high a starting dose prescribed by the vet and the owner isn't home testing.
     
  4. Greg and Goma & Friends

    Greg and Goma & Friends Member

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    Dec 8, 2017
    Thank you for taking the time to find this. I understand more of what @Djamila was describing would happen. Since I don't think #6 above applies in this case, is it still something I need to anticipate (in regards to a crash - hypo episode).
     
  5. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    Hi there! It might not feel like it to you but Goma is reacting in a very typical fashion to having had a much lower than normal BG yesterday. She's actually responding well to the insulin at this point but you're in the tricky stage of trying to work out a good dose range for her. The bouncing phenomenon is very common but does make it harder to see what's really going on. Keep posting here. We can help you sort it out. For now the 2.25 u dose is appropriate. :)

    Also - I don't think a "crash" is something to worry about right now.
     
  6. Greg and Goma & Friends

    Greg and Goma & Friends Member

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    Dec 8, 2017
    Appreciate the information/guidance. We had a pmps of 559 tonight and gave 2.25 u dose. For her sake I hope this goes well tonight. I wasn't anticipating this mornings events. So presently I am back to the uneasy stage. So how long does this bouncing period typically last?
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
  7. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    There's always some anxiety associated with treating FD. It DOES get easier and you'll learn to handle it better as time goes on. Learning how your kitty responds to doses, dose changes, etc. is what makes it so much better. Until now she hasn't really been responding to the insulin. We're here to help! :)
     
  8. Greg and Goma & Friends

    Greg and Goma & Friends Member

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    Dec 8, 2017
    I was editing while you were responding - Sorry...Typically how long does this bouncing period last understanding that ECID.
     
  9. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    Yes, ECID! Some cats bounce only one cycle, some up to 6 or 8 cycles. My cat did that when he was on ProZinc. You'll learn what Goma wants to do as you continue to collect data. That's why we're such huge fans of the SS. :)
     
  10. Greg and Goma & Friends

    Greg and Goma & Friends Member

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    Dec 8, 2017
    So perhaps I am looking at a few days of this? I can see she is feeling poorly again after a couple of good days. Is there anything else I should be doing?
     
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  11. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    Unfortunately, there's not much to be done except wait. The fact that she responded so well to the insulin is hopeful though. It means there are more good cycles to come, and more days when she's feeling better. It's often said around here that it's a marathon, not a sprint. It is so hard on these in between times when they don't feel well, but hang in there. She's on the right track. And we'll all keep our fingers crossed that she will clear the bounce quickly and have more good cycles.
     
  12. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    How are you doing? How is Goma? I hope you both have had a good weekend. It looks like she may be getting stuck up there in the high numbers, unless she shows something more active at the end of this cycle? Assuming she stays high, I think you could try the 2.5u again on a cycle or two when you'll be able to monitor and are feeling ready for it.
     
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  13. Greg and Goma & Friends

    Greg and Goma & Friends Member

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    Dec 8, 2017
    Thanks for asking...Been a long sleepless weekend but that's okay. Goma appears okay in spite of the high numbers. Might wait another cycle or two before attempting any more increases but began thinking of it last night.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
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  14. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    I'm sorry to hear sleepless! I hope everything is okay? I'm glad to hear that Goma is doing alright though. :bighug: May your new week bring rest and health to you both!
     
  15. Greg and Goma & Friends

    Greg and Goma & Friends Member

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    Dec 8, 2017
    I really appreciate the help and kind thoughts.
     
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  16. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    I agree with trying 2.5 u again soon. Sometimes they can bounce up higher after some lower than usual numbers and get stuck up there. The longer they sit too high the harder it can be to shift them downward again. This is one of many two steps forward - one step back in the FD dance.
     
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  17. Greg and Goma & Friends

    Greg and Goma & Friends Member

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    Dec 8, 2017
    So you and @Djamila believe I could safely give 2.5u this morning in about 10 minutes? Amps 486 and I need to go out for a few hours. Been home with her for three days
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
  18. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    Well, there are unfortunately no guarantees in this dance, but yes, she should be okay.
     
  19. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    I agree that it's worth trying 2.5 u. She had a low lime green number at this dose on 04 Jan. However, that won't necessarily happen again. Test again 2 or 3 hours after the dose to see what she's doing.
     
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