sorry it's long.

Hi ya folks, I am a tad annoyed because I have just wrote a long post and it got lost : ( ah well time to start again in notepad then copy n paste.

Firstly I'd like to say what a great message board, I have learnt a lot these past few days. You all sound so caring and full of vital information regarding cats with
with diabetes.

I am going to keep this simple because I did go on in the post that got lost. Maybe a good thing for you guys n gals.
My gorgeous cat fluffy was diagnosed with diabetes last year, about July time. He was very poorly with ketoacidosis, he was at the vets about 4 days. Fast forward
to today and he still isn't regulated. I must take some of the blame for that because I used to take fluffy the vets every 2 months for his blood tests and fructose tests, I
used to just go with what the vet was saying, like an increase in insulin was need because fluffy's glucose levels were too high. I can't give numbers because everything used
to go over my head. I am the creative type, I am not the sharpest tool in the box, numbers confuse me. Fluffy's diet wasn't discussed really, it was just a case of getting him
to put some weight on as he had lost quite a bit. He is now over weight.

Some info on fluffy, he is about 8-9 years old, can't be sure on that as we took him in as a stray. He had cancer about 4 years ago, he had to have his front shoulder and leg
removed, he adapted really well. He has been cancer free ever since : ) He was over weight which I think may of contributed to him becoming diabetic, he was very greedy
when it came to dry food, he does have access to the back garden but he isn't as active as my other two cats who go beyond the back garden. Fluffy is now 5.5kg in weight. He was on 3 units of insuvet protamine zinc insulin, needles are u-100 0,3ml . I will explain why he is now on 1 unit of pz insulin.


Ok about a month ago I ordered some stuff offline for the cats, litter etc, I had a browse at the food and noticed some good reviews for bozita cat food. I ordered 12 cans, delivery arrived and my cats went mad for it, empty bowls for a change and lots of deep grooming afterwards lol. I thought brilliant, they love it, it's really good quality cat food. I was thinking of my cats needs.

About 3 weeks ago I cam home and fluffy was in a right state, he was panting heavily, his check was soaking wet, his breathing and heart rate was going like the clappers. I must admit my house was boiling hot, it was a very very hot day out, I was sweating myself. I thought fluffy had heat stroke, I have to leave fluffy in my bedroom (it's a large room) when I go out as I am worried that my housemates will leave a door open and fluffy will go out. There is always a big bowl of fresh water in my room and a litter tray, my other two cats were in my room too but they seemed fine. I got some towels and soaked them in cold water and rubbed fluffy down, I put him in front of the fan, opened the windows, my head was telling me it could be a hypo (fluff had never had a hypo before) i syringed quite a bit of syrup into his mouth (he was awake) I gave him a massive bowl of wet food and syringed more syrup into him and some water. He calmed down after about 20 minutes. I took him in the garden and he was playing and eating.
I noticed after that he had pooed and peed on my bed. All that kept going through my mind was he had heat stroke, or constipation. I did tell my vet I was putting fluffy on a high protein diet, all she said was it may cause constipation. When fluffy was on the bozita I did notice he didn't poo every day, usually he would on his old diet (whiskers and felix pouches with some whiskers and iams to nibble on) he would do a big poo every day. Fluff would poo about every other day on the bozita cat food, I never saw him straining, his poo's looked smaller than usual but nothing dodgy. So in my head I thought fluffy must of got worked up for a poo and the heat didn't help things.

Fast forward to last week and the same thing happened again even though I was only mixing the bozita in with his normal felix pouches and tinned food incase he was getting constipated. Luckily I was home. I noticed fluffy was snoring, his breathing seemed very fast, I started combing him (he loves a comb, he will purr like mad) he didn't purr, he moved away, he seemed agitated,he went under my tv unit. His breathing still seemed funny, he then went into the litter tray, I took the lid off so I could keep an eye on him. He was panting, he had a poo (he wasn't straining) and didn't seem right. I thought ok it's warm today but not to hot the windows were wide open so I ruled out heat stroke, i syringed some syrup into his mouth again, I did this numerous times, I feed him and took him in the garden to relax on the grass. He seemed to pick up but I was still worried about him, I took him straight the vets just incase, he was panting in the taxi and he wet himself when I was trying to get (he is starting to hate going into the cat carrier) him into
the carrier, he was very stressed at this point. The vet said fluffy's glucose levels were low and he had had a hypo, I think his BG was 4.3 (I am in the UK) I can't be 100% sure on that, I am hopeless at taking in information when I am anxious. Right I know you will all want to give me a good shaking for not even thinking about lowering fluffy's insulin level. I didn't know : ( I read the good reviews on bozita cat food and that was that. My vet didn't mention anything about lowering insulin when I said I was putting fluffy on a high protein diet, she only mentioned he may get constipated. I am not blaming the vet though, it was my fault, I should of done some research before changing his diet. I never knew how important diet was for a diabetic, I knew feeding him at the time time of injecting him was crucial, I didn't realise what he ate mattered.
Those two episodes happened at about 1-30pm, nearly the exact times. That's why I thought it was definitely a hypo the 2nd time.


Fluffy was taken off insulin for 2 days, then went back the vets and he was started on 1 of unit protamine zinc twice a day. The vet wanted him on a diet and gave me some purina obesity control dry food.I mixed that in with his wet pouches for about 4 days then put him on totally dry food. I haven't really been giving fluffy dry food after and episode a few months ago. I bought some James wellbeloved dry food because it was on special offer at the pet store. Well after fluffy munching on it for about a week he developed a water infection, he couldn't pee, and when he did it had blood in it, one vet said it probably wasn't the diet change but another vet (fluffy's usual vet) said it probably was. The first vet said fluffy was probably stressed, he hadn't been stressed at all, he had been basking on the decking all week in the sun.
I was suspicious because he had never had a water infection before, it was only since he was on the dry food. So I wasn't that happy with fluffy been put on that new purina dry food. Thought I'd give it a go, I took him off it after
2 days, I have never seen him drink so much water, he was in and out the litter tray peeing all the time. Fluff has always drank quite abit of water, but never this much. I gave him some bozita and mixed it with some of his felix pouches, the next day he was back to normal. Oh I must add that I was testing fluffy's pee while he was on the dry food with urine sticks and his pee had max glucose in it. No ketones though.

Sorry for going on. I will post some questions now. I should of done all this researching last year, I was just going with what the vet told me. Fluffy is now seeing a different vet, it's still part of the same chain of vets, this vet is nearer. She is in touch with fluffy's old vet who had dealt with him from the diagnosis.

Fluffy had a fructose test done last week, got his results on Monday. He was booked in for an appointment to check how he was getting on since lowering his insulin. I can't be 100% sure again what his results were, I should of wrote it down (I had a double appointment at the vets because my rabbit has had some dental problems, feels like I have been living at the vets this past year) I am sure she said it was in the 200's and she wants it in the 400's. She wants me to keep him on one unit of insulin for 3 weeks then they will test him again. I did say to her I had bought a glucometer, she said the human ones are no good. She said the readings are different to what they use. My heart sank because I managed to get a reading off fluffy (I had only had it a day, fluffy wasn't keen but knowing what I know now testing him is essential) She phoned me last night saying she will get the prices of the animal glucometers. To be honest I want to test fluffy at home, I never want him to hypo. I am currently out of work, my family are helping me pay
for vets bills, insulin and needles and good quality food. I know the animal glucometers are about £60, I know the strips are gonna cost a bomb. I don't know what to do!

Ok my questions, this must be the longest post in history lol. Sorry.

Could anyone be so kind as to give me the levels that what say that fluffy is within normal BG range. hmm ok that doesn't make sense! when the vet says to me oh fluffy's level are so and so I haven't got a clue what she is on about, I only know if it's high or low by her telling me so. So what levels would class fluffy's levels as being to low, high or normal? Don't forget I am in the UK.

I have taken a delivery today of bozita wet food (97% protein) I am worried about just feeding him that incase he has a hypo again or gets constipated. is it possible for a cat to have a hypo on 1 unit of insulin twice a day? I will be worrying if I go out now and he has a hypo, it's a good job I'm not working at the moment, not good on the bank balance but good so I can check fluffy.

Can a cats stress levels send them into a hypo?

Have you ever heard of a cat (may or may not of been) constipated being sent into a hypo? I think the bozita was working well on fluffy and he didn't need 3 units of insulin twice a day. He wasn't drinking and peeing like he
was before. Plus the timing of the two incidents happened near enough the same time, is that maybe down to fluffy's insulin peaking?

I feed fluffy quite a lot through the day, should I just stick to feeding him with his insulin at 8am then a meal in the afternoon and then a meal at 8pm with his insulin and thats that? I only ask because he is over weight I don't want to under feed him because of the risk of a hypo.

Is it safe just to feed bozita because it is so high in protein? If not is anyone in the Uk who could suggest other wet foods that I could feed along with bozita. Or is there anything I could add to fluffy's diet to give him some fibre. As I said before I don't know if fluffy was constipated, the hypo's happened when he had a poop on both occasions. I'm thinking can a hypo cause a cat to poop or it the other way around, fluffy being constipated then getting stressed and that causing a hypo?

I am using PZ insulin, my old vet said it will only last one month then I must throw it away. I spoke to another vet and he said I could use it for 2 months. I am currently using it for 6 weeks then binning it, thought I'd do a happy medium. Is that ok and safe? I use fresh needles for every injection.

The glucometer I got is a freestyle lite. It was only cheap, I wanted to see how fluffy took to being tested. Is that glucomtere rubbish? Is there anyone here in the UK who uses a human glucometer? If so how does your vet feel about it?

When I tested fluffy on Sunday evening his BG levels were 16.4, this was taken at 10.22pm, he had been injected with insulin at 8pm. Took a reading today at 3.30pm his reading was 10.1mmol/L, he had been fed about half n hour before. As I said I don't know what levels are ok. I have looked on the online but I get so confused. Oh i checked his urine about 15 minutes ago and it was moyen 5 or 500 on the diastix bottle. No ketones were detected, I was a little worried as the testing strip appeared actually lighter on the ketone colour chart than on the bottle, maybe it was my eyes.

Right I think that's enough from me lol. I did say I was going to keep it simple, sorry : D

I'd appreciate any help with my lovely sugar kitty x

 

First off wlecome to the best place to get all the advice you will ever need on helping your sugarbaby. Since I'm a bloody American I'll leave the answers to you questions to those here that are from across the pond and can do it in units and lingo that you will be hearing from your vet. Just wanted to say welcome to the wonderful FDMB family and no need to apologize for long it just means we get more insight and info on you and your Fluffy.

Mel & Muse (GA)

 

Wow, that was long, but very informative

Welcome to FDMB.

Great that you are hometesting and the Freestyle is fine, you don't need the animal glucometer. The numbers you got at home were high, but not horrible.

I don't think your cat was constipated, I think your cat was doing so well on the new food that his blood sugar was coming down naturally and his need for insulin much lower and he did hypo, so the syrup was the right move.

Ever heard the expression Garbage In Garbage Out? You were feeding higher quality food so you were getting less in the litterbox. In my opinion, I'm no expert though.

If this were my cat I'd continue with the better food, check the blood sugar before you give shots. If the blood sugar is over about 10 mmol/L give insulin, but I'd probably go down to a half of a unit, not 1 unit. Check the blood sugar every few hours to see how your kitty is responding to that dose.

You may end up with a diet controlled kitty that doesn't need insulin.

 

Welcome to FDMB

Sounds like the Bozita food is very good for your kitties, but you do need to reduce insulin and possibly your kitty may not need any insulin and become "Diet Controlled" diabetic.

Human glucometers work just fine for cats. Most of us here use human meters.

Dry food is bad, but the 3u dose was based on what your kitty was eating at the time.

Diet change === Insulin dose change

Home testing will help a lot -- keep a record of the numbers -- most people start a GOOGLE spreadsheet to share the info here.

I agree with the Garbage In - Garbage Out. When my cats ate dry food, they pooped a lot more than they do now -- eating only High Protein, low carbohydrate canned food (grain free).

 

To answer a few of your other questions -

The insulin certainly can last longer than a month. Keep it refrigerated, roll it- don't shake. If it is going bad, it will stop working and may have some flaky stuff in it. Weak insulin won't hurt your kitty; it just won't be effective. So most of us use it until it doesn't work anymore; there is no set time.

It is fine to feed several smaller meals during the day - in fact for most cats, it is better. PZI is not an insulin that requires food on board before the shot, just feed after the shot unless you are worried he won't eat. (But it doesn't sound like he is picky)

So glad you are hometesting. That will save you lots of money. Also, you can buy strips on ebay for half the price in stores (Not for the alpha meter but for almost every other kind of human glucometer). It isn't the meter that is expensive; it's the strips.

Here is the info for the spreadsheet. It does make it easier for us to see patterns, and it is a great way to keep your vet in the loop. Just email him the spreadsheet. http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16 There are different instructions for the US and for the rest of the world. Use the world instructions.

 

Hi again, thanks for the welcome : ) sorry about the layout of mu post and any grammatical errors. I was typing fast in notepad.

Thanks for all the info. I am definitely sticking with the high protein wet food, I am not going back on that one. I am worried about the glucometer, I know my vet isn't interested at all in the human ones. I had already priced the strips up for my freestyle lite from ebay, they was really cheap. Would be far cheaper than taking him the vets for tests. I might just stick to the meter I have and tell the vets I can't afford the animal one at the moment. I will have a look at the spreadsheets and hopefully any kind people on here can help me with the results in I get.

I haven't given fluffy any Bozita tonight just incase. I am still worried he could have a hypo on one unit a day. Maybe I should give him half a unit to be safe. I would be worrying then that his levels may go high then and fluff may go into ketosis again. Feels like a I can't win.

I am happy for info from across the pond or anywhere in the world.

Thanks for the replies.

Hope all the sugar kitties out there are doing fine and dandy : )

 

Don't worry that you're not going to win this one, you're more than halfway there already You're hometesting and you're seeing how food can make the need for insulin change.

It may be a slow start, but you hometest using which ever meter you feel comfortable with and you will know before you give the shot what the blood sugar is and if it's safe to give insulin.

You can monitor at different hours of the day to see how your kitty is doing on the dose and as you learn to understand the numbers, which you will, you will be able to make informed decisions on your cats insulin needs.

It could take a very short time for you to get the hang of it, or a few months. It doesn't matter how long, we are all here to help each other and you are welcome to post questions and start new threads any time.

 

Just a quickie, I am not sure whether I should of started a new thread.

I have just tested fluff with the glucometer and I got a reading of 6.9mmol/L , I am due to inject him in about 30 minutes. I am worried that If I do he may hypo, I still haven't found the correct readings online of what is normal BG levels. I have been reading just on a site that says a non diabetic cat is around 4-8mmol/L, is that right? sorry for being a duffus.

He has been on bozita cat food only for days now. I haven't been able to test his urine this evening, he went for a pee while I was out the room. If no one responds I may just give him half a unit.


Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks x