Spacey with caninsulin

*trying the new isg format*

Is it en idea to go higher with the insulin again, since her numbers are getting higher (bit by bit)?
I was thinking of 0.5 again of a whole 1??
Till she is down and then tune back to the 0.4.

What do you think?

 

My thoughts, from looking at her spreadsheet, is that her best dose is between .5u and 1u. On 1u she dropped into the 70s and there was some rebound, but she seemed to have decent numbers and might have settled down and not rebounded. However, the 70 is a little low to aim for with this insulin. I always aimed for 100 and if Beau went a little lower, say 80, he was fine. Spacey on .5u does not seem to be getting into decent numbers. I know Kimmee thought she was still rebounding a little on that dose, but I am not seeing it.

You don't want to be changing the dose all the time either, but she is too high right now. You could try .5u for a couple of cycles and see if she responds better to that. If not, you could go to .75u. When you get the u100 syringes, you would do .6u and .8u and you may find the .8u works well with .6u for the days she is lower at PS than normal. Also, are you testing for ketones? That should be a regular thing when she is getting 500s and not going lower than 200.

Whew! Trying to get my head around caninsulin action after "thinking" levemir for so long.

 

So glad Sheila jumped in here... I was going to timidly make the same basic suggestion, with the disclaimer I was putting out a call for she and/or Kimmee to give you a look-see!

 

Hoi Sheila and Sherry

I discussed everything with my husband and we both decided to go to 0.75 approx. I hope that we get the new syringes tomorrow. Then we can shoot an exacter number.
Spacey was a bit unhappy when I came home. That's why we went with more insulin.
She is sleeping now, did a lot of grooming. I think she is happy with my choice.

I tried yesterday to check for ketones. It is in my mind. But the meter wouldn't work. Guess I have to study a bit more on how it works and then try again.
Thanks anyway for reminding me. ;-)

 

I honestly don't know.

It is certainly worth a try cause these highs truly suck, watch out for a sudden drop as 0.5 has given you quite a bit of movement in the past so you may end up with a big dip with 0.75.
The food you leave out should certainly help solve that.

(((hugs)))

 

Oh absolutely... She will find all the food she wants.
I'm going to test her now in a couple of minutes (for the +3) and I'm going up this night as well at 1am (+6). I never know when she has her nadir. Could be +3, could also be +6. That's why I'm going to test.

But tomorrow morning is the next head trouble. When it's still this high I can give the same then now. But what if it's lower... Well, we'll cross the bridge when we come to it. Something like that?
I really believe that she will do fine on 0.4 as soon as her numbers are down again and maybe after her dental next week. Until then, aaaaaa... difficult.

Keep in touch. :smile:

 

Yes, Ella, get some spot checks tonight to see how low she goes. If she is dropping fast, but over 150 still, feed regular food and test again in 30-60 mins. Be prepared to feed some higher carb food if she drops below 100 before +6. Post on Health if you run into any problems - in case it is too quiet here.

 

I'm hoping you get a similar pattern to what you saw on the 29th-31st Dec.

Rather than miss a shot, it may be better to delay the shot until you get a high enough number (if your able to do that)
Need to possibly consider making smaller dose cuts than previously, but that will depend on a number of factors such as bg,your avaialability to monitor and your comfort zone.

Agree with Sheila that if you don't get a response on here, cross post.

I'm sure you know, but Vetsulin/Caninsulin is much faster acting than insulins such as Lev/Lantus, so you can get a steeper drop. In my experience this insulin works best when used with food to slow drops-aiming for a nice valley curve.Sometimes you have a trade off of high preshots to get nice nadirs.

I'm not sure if Mary/Jolly have joined this board, certainly posted in this isg on old board.You could look at Jolly's chart and see how it went for them, as well as others. Always bear in mind ECID (Every cat is different)

Paws crossed :smile:

 

What you may see following today.

You have increased almost by 50%, even though microdosing, that is still a lot and you got a lot of movement in the first 3 hours.

You may have a higher number tonight, in response to that big dip, or, you may have a lower preshot.
This is a good thing.

This insulin really does not like dose hopping so adjusting for changing preshots is not a good idea. It needs consistency and time to show you the full potential of what a dose can do. ( this is good in theory but you have some weird days, so not at all chiding you on the changes you are making )

I do think it is important now that you are seeing the data to support a few differing areas of dosing, to get into a dose you can consistently give and let that ride for at least 3 days, 5 days even better unless a preshot is too low to comfortably shoot the same dose for.

That said a couple of plans..

1 if you have a preshot lower than around 370 I would consider scaling back the dose a bit, 0.6?

2 if you have a preshot that is lower than 250, I would for sure lower dose to 0.5

3 if you have a preshot higher than around 370 I would consider that 0.75 again and then try and shoot a rising number a little earlier for the following shot ( like around +9 or +10 ) to keep a shallower curve and avoid the quick climb as the insulin runs out at about +10 in the body, and that dose could be a little less than 0.75 to help even out the swings ( more like 0.5. )

You could even take advantage of the lower numbers today, and shoot early, on a rising number past nadir, making sure it is not a food spike you are seeing, and shoot a little under 0.75 around +10 if levels above 370.
This will screw up the 12/2 schedule but truly, caninsulin does well shooting more as needed like three times a day, if the schedule and blood glucose levels allow and you can give a consistant dose with that.

I am writing all these thoughts out as Spacey is offering some unpredictable moments for you and I realize with the time change, that we are not always around when decisions have to be made.

You are doing great wading through all this. Is the info I posted clear enough?
It is always your choice and I am glad you have a hubby you can connect with and brainstorm with as well.
The question to add to that brainstorming now, is " what is the dose that you can consistently give that will give the best results for Spacey, without needing to lower or raise every couple of shots, based on the results you seeing? "

Kimmee

 

Hi Ella

looking at this evening's numbers her shot is already wearing off by +6. I don't think that's a response to the earlier drop, because it's really not a huge increase. What it signals, IMO, is lack of duration. As has already been said, that's one of the major problems with caninsulin, it just doesn't last long enough in the system. But duration often improves as the dose settles. I know I keep harping on about this, but you really do need to stick with a dose unless her preshot is too low. The numbers will bounce around for a few days on a new dose, that's normal.

The only other thing I would add is that the drop from a lower number is not always as steep as the drop from a high number with caninsulin (on same dose), so sometimes cutting back for a lower preshot can be counter-productive. Obviously a full shot shouldn't be given if you can't be around to monitor, and it's perfectly acceptable to try a reduced dose first and see what it does. But if the reduced dose results in a high bg at next preshot, and you can be there to watch, then it's worth trying the full shot IMHO.

 

Hi girl's,

Read all of it too late of course. :?
I'm sure now that I gave a dose that's too little. But I really want to be able to keep en eye on hear on higher (0.75 high?) shots. She's been known to drop rapidly (don't have the numbers on that, was pre home testing). I just want to be around.
Today is my last day at work, so as of this evening I can get back to 0.75 or 0.7 and watch her more closely for the next couple of days when I'm at home. Maybe I even have the new syringes. Even better.
We are still guessing the doses. And I feel stronger than ever, now with all the microdosing, that I need to be able to give a certain amount of insulin and make sure that it is the same amount when I shoot again. Now it could be this or that.

I'm very thankful with all your advice and comments. With every bit of info I learn more. ;-)
Men.. I would be so grateful to be able to say: she needs ... (pick a number) in the morning and evening. Just some stability in numbers would be nice.
But I guess that's impossible with FD in Spacey.

 

Hi Ella

that's a much better looking preshot than the last few mornings! It's perfectly fine that you gave a little less, and it will be interesting to see how it works for Spacey.

Please don't think you won't get there with Spacey in terms of seeing more consistency. We just need to find a dose that works for her. And remember, you'll be switching to Lantus soon (dental is on the 13th, right? My big brother's birthday ), which honestly is a lot easier. No nasty big drops.

 

Woooo hooooo....

I've got the new syringes!
Now I finally can measure even 0.2 units. I'm so happy..

I now have to decide what to shot in 45 minutes. 0.6 or 0.8.
I didn't check her bg yet. But I guess I follow Kimmee's advice. Go to 0.8 when her bg is above 370 a go with 0.8 and if lower 0.6.
And that number I will hold on to for the next day's. Have to work on Monday again. By then the new number should be settled. Shouldn't it?

 

Hi Yolanda,

Yep, the idea is still to switch after her dental which is next week. Yes, on the 13th.
I guess we both have work to do. I have to take care of my kitty and you have to throw a party. :lol:
What a day that 'll be...

 

Saw you shot .8u. I think this will be ok, just get a spot check or two in when you can.

Whoo hoo on the new syringes! You will love them for the easy dose changes and, as you say, KNOWING what you are shooting.

Sticking wiht a consitent dose will work better, and I bet you will get to a point where you can test and say, "Spacey needs Xu of insulin today". Kimmee gave you some good dose decision guidlines - in fact, I am sure she gave me the same ones back when, but now they make sense to me!

Ask if you have any questions.

 

Today is looking good Ella great you found the syringes to make life a little easier

Nice gentle drop in those first couple of hours.....excellent.

 

I'm not sure if Mary/Jolly have joined this board, certainly posted in this isg on old board.You could look at Jolly's chart and see how it went for them, as well as others. Always bear in mind ECID (Every cat is different)

Hi Spacey & Ella,
I have found my way here, but have been scarce... I do remember you guys from the old board and am so glad to see the improvements. The others have already given some great advice and support. Getting those syringes will definitely make micro-dosing easier. Just from looking at your SS, the smaller doses seem to be more effective. Like others have suggested feeding at +2 will slow a quick drop. The only thing I can add is that (from my experience), I would hold the dose a little longer to truly see the effects. Unless of coarse a reduction is needed when preshot BG is a lot lower than usual. Some cats need longer with a dose for the body to learn how to use it. At the begining, Jolly's numbers would only seem to move after 1 week on a held dose.
Give yourself a big pat on the back for all the hard work and great care you are giving to your beloved cat.

 

Hello everyone.

A little update on my little girl.
Eu... where do I start?

I think I found a dose where I stay for a while. Now I have those new syringes giving 0.8 is no challenge anymore. ;-)
The curve is absolutely not what I would like to see for her. I like the blue and green colors. Now it's like a patchwork blanket.
But she's okay this evening. Happy, peaceful, eats, washes herself afterward. Her eyes also look good, no tears in them.
Her breath is good and she is peeing inside the litter box again in stead of in front of it.
So, I'm okay with dosage. For now. Give her some rest and stability.

There is still a few things I would like to change for her. I give her metacam every day. Don't even know if she still needs it. I think I'll stop with that after her dental next week.
I also give her some B12 additional to you her food (very, very bit) and so now and then a powder (fiber) so that she can poop more easily. I think a covered all the bases for now.
Hope she agrees. :lol:

 

Nice report Ella! Your doing ok, soon she will have her teeth fixed and will be better.

So how's the weather there? I'm freezing, we have -10°C and cold wind. I hate the cold. Should get some snow tomorrow, good for the skiiers anyway.

 

It is f*ck*ng freezing here. I like the air in the winter: fresh, not as heavy as in the summer. I like the snow. But the ice! Brrr... I've been sitting on my arse on the street twice already. And since my own health isn't that well either, it's not the best of times for me. I agree: it could get a bit warmer. Preferably above 0 degrees. ;-)

 

Nice report about Spacey.
Glad you are in a place where you feel good about the dose.
Don't forget you can always shoot a little early to avoid those reds as the insulin is running out, need be

You can send me snow I love snow and we haven't had any yet.
I am on Vancouver island on west coast of Canada...everywhere else in the world has snow but us it seems

 

Not sure at all on dose.
I'm so tired. Honestly.
Checked her ketones today: 0. At least something.
Couple of day's ago I started B12, yesterday I lowered the Metacam by half, today I didn't give it at all. Can't see any pain.
So I guess, that's good as weel.
But her bg-curve is this patchwork thing again. Lot of highs, from black to yellow in 2hrs. Her nadir is not that low, but I guess acceptable. It's a V again, not the well-liked gentle smile.
On Wednesday is her dental. I'm not sure: should I keep the dosage I have now till then, give it all more time?
My guts tells me yes... But at the same time I see how badly she feels in those higher numbers. I wish somehow I could make her feel bit better.