Spicoli pt 3

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by W.K., Aug 30, 2017.

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  1. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    So we've done a few more increases, up to 6u. Today after his mid morning snack (didn't eat much for breakfast) he was napping by me. He suddenly woke and started rolling around and meowing as if he was in pain. He jumped off the bed and continued this behavior before just crouching as if he was in pain.

    I immediately rushed him into the vet....Got a lecture on insulin and Somogyi effect (not our usual vet). However he thinks that cat had a seizure due to constant higher bgs. Is this possible?

    So Spicoli is staying at the vets...again. I'm a little frazzled as i've never seen a cat act like this before. And he's been acting so wonderful lately - like a normal cat. Playing, grooming, eating, everything. Even though he's still been more elevated than I'd like his behavior hasn't been this good in a few months.

    Any ideas?
     
  2. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    No ideas other than I'm skeptical of the idea than elevated BGs caused a seizure. It might be worth considering a trial of Lantus or Levemir though.
     
  3. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    I've been thinking about changing insulin types... just doesn't seem like prozinc is doing the trick anymore.

    Since I know you've used both how much better do you like Lantus vs. Prozinc?
     
  4. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Lantus has been better for Teasel. He's still bouncy but less so and he's a bit more predictable now.
     
  5. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    I have to wonder about a seizure due to higher numbers as well. Maybe it was a hairball? Just for another 2 cents, I am liking Lantus a little more for my boy too :cat:. Hope Spicoli gets to come home safely soon :bighug:
     
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  6. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    Thanks :) I'm sure he will. I doubt it was a hairball...he hasn't thrown up in...well longer than I can remember. I suppose it could have been one passing through his system though.

    Yeah, not sure I'm buying that one. I've tried to find something on the topic but there really doesn't seem to be anything...

    I guess I just worry that maybe the reason he became diabetic could be a pancreatic tumor...and what if it was rupturing...that's why I went to instant panic mode and rushed him in.
    By the time the vet was checking him out, you'd have never thought anything was wrong. He was jumping from the floor to the counter and didn't seem to be in any sort of distress. I'm just a worry wort over him. He's just super special to me, one of those rare bonds unlike any other I've had with the other 12 cats I've had.

    Our vet will be back in the office tomorrow and I think I'm going to bring up switching him over to Lantus and see what he thinks. If he won't budge I might be finding a new vet. There's a nice cat only clinic about 45 mins away. And the vet/owner has even written about FD and seems pretty well versed in the topic.
     
  7. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    High blood glucose can cause seizures in humans, so I think it could be possible.

    I would also suggest you read about Levemir. Some people prefer it for the higher dose kitties because they say Lantus can sting in larger doses, and Levemir doesn't. I wonder if it also might be worth getting Spicoli tested for the high dose conditions. It's something to consider once a cat gets to six units.

    Those conditions wouldn't explain the seizure, but they might impact your dosing decisions.

    Hopefully your regular vet will have some ideas too. Please keep us posted on what happens!
     
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  8. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    I'd look into Lev too for those higher doses...works very like Lantus, but it is used more in high dose kitties.

    I would have rushed right into the vet too...you did the right thing!
     
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  9. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    Just went and picked him up... they wanted to send him home after they saw how his bgs were doing. We were a little late for his shot tonight. He was at at 464 at about a half hour past his usual time. Vet recommended we back down to 5.5 at least for tonight and see how things go this evening. I plan on staying up pretty late to say the least. I didn't get all his numbers for today but was told he dropped into the 90s around +6.

    Going to try to take him in next week sometime and discuss that insulin change.

    I've already asked his regular vet about this. He said there are a number of different tests we can do (i was interested in growth hormone). Also, since he has suspected IBS it has been recommended that if he doesn't get regulated in the next couple of months to do intestinal biopsies. But I honestly don't know if this will be financially possible and I don't want to do the cheaper endoscopic since it's not as accurate. Any of you guys have any experience with this?
     
  10. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    @Lisa and Smoky might be able to give some insight for intestinal biopsy. *paws crossed* for Spicoli :cat: and :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug: for you!
     
  11. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    Well we're having a strange day...

    8/31 pmps 316 reduced to 5
    +2 245
    +4 114 fed 14% carbs so i could sleep

    9/1 Amps 572
    +4 365

    pmps 151 stall retest 177

    any advice? 3 test strips left...more should be here tomorrow but i need 1 for am.
     
  12. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    It's been an hour since the 151.
    He's risen to 248.
    Dosing ideas?

    From the way he dropped last night I'm thinking 5u is way too much for tonight.
     
  13. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Hey Wes, I'm out of town (actually in your state :p) but trying to check in once a day lol. I can't see your SS on my phone but are you thinking of dropping to like 4.5 or just a tiny decrease at a time?

    *paws crossed* these are good signs for Spicoli!
     
  14. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    I ended up going with 2.5u last night.
    The last time he was that low for preshot I did 3u and he bounced.
    But overall I am thinking of dropping his does as it seems to high now.
    We had a fur shot this AM so I'm not testing today :( But i think i may try the 4.5u for a bit and see where that takes us.
     
  15. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    Forgot to say he bounced last night..
    I did 2.5 u at pmps 248 (was very low on strips) and this AM he was 572.
     
  16. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    It's hard to know what to say...I'm terrible at decreases. It does look like the 5.75 was too much as it gave you some long cycles, but 2.5 was too little. I think your idea of trying 4.5 for a few cycles would be good. See what that does...then you can go up or down from there as needed.

    You are testing for ketones, right?
     
  17. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Last night wasn't actually a bounce. The high number this morning is the result of not enough insulin last night. Same with the cycle after the 3u. A bounce is when the body panics from a low number and throws extra glucose into the blood stream. In both of these instances, there is no evidence of a low enough number to cause that panic - just not enough insulin to hold the BG down through the PS.

    You are seeing the insulin get better duration at this dose which is how the PMPS numbers are coming down. Your tests last night showed that he was rising, but hadn't reached the usual high numbers. That's a good thing. It's how the numbers come down in general.

    I think if you continued with the current dose, even on those lower PMPS's, you might start to see the AM numbers come down as well. It would require more testing though because I could also be wrong :D. You generally test enough to keep an eye on him if he did go lower, and have been at this long enough to steer if it was needed.

    If you think it would be better to lower the dose, please please test for ketones. We've seen way too many kitties go into DKA from lowering the dose on a kitty in high numbers recently.
     
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  18. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    I am. It's been 5 days but I'll grab one tomorrow.

    And then he's high tonight from the fur shot this AM. I only did the 2.5 because I only had 1 test strip left at the time...they got here this morning. I knew that wasn't going to be enough but I don't think anyone was around at the time I was seeking some dose advice and I really didn't want to risk a possible hypo without being able to test. I'm probably wrong, but I figured something was better than nothing or a hypo.

    I'm not eager to decrease by any means I just want to find what works for him since things got all out of wack with his 2 ear infections. And I was told by the ER vet Wednesday that he has gingivitis so it looks like a dental is now necessary.
     
  19. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    That definitely makes sense to be conservative when you won't be able to test. Dental issues are often connected to high BG, so hopefully once that's taken care of you'll see some better numbers.
     
  20. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    Even though our regular vet not 3 weeks ago said he didn't need a cleaning, I really like our ER vet and trust him even more. I really wish he was available on a regular basis. Anyways, I plan on scheduling one next week. Spicoli hasn't had one since he was dx with FD so I'm not quite sure how we'll deal with it...I know he will have to eat that morning since he needs insulin. But I'm not sure how anesthesia without fasting will work...

    He's had dental issues in the past. About 1 1/2 years ago he had 2 bilateral FORLs...but recovered quickly. They didn't pull the molars but I was told, they ground them down to the bone. It's really no surprise he has something else going on... We have 3 cat children and he's our problem child :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2017
  21. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    He'll still need to fast before the dental. Most vets say to give half of the regular dose of insulin, and then my vet did Sam first that day and they monitored his BG in case he went too low (or too high from the stress). My vet is great, but he still kept insisting that dentals and FD aren't connected. Funny how Sam's numbers dropped so much after his extractions though...;):p
     
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  22. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    I'm hoping a good cleaning and fixing anything that might be wrong will help us out too :)

    Silly me forgot to change the code for the strips last night and this am so those aren't going to be accurate...:banghead:
     
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  23. srk4cats

    srk4cats Well-Known Member

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    Chloe has never had dental work before, but she eats funny. I asked the vet to check her teeth when she was in the hospital, but he did just a cursary exam and said she looked fine. When we go to see her new vet next week, I will watch as she does the exam. Good wishes to Sam, brave boy, and you.
     
  24. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    So today's curve hasn't really been a curve.

    AMPS (wrong code) 503
    +2.5 436
    +4 364
    +6 284
    +8 226
    +10 194

    I'm interested to see what his PMPS will be. Gonna hold at this lower 4.5u unless you guys have different opinions.
     
  25. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    276 pmps I stuck with the 4.5u but won't be suprised if he bounces a little.
     
  26. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    Wow!! this is really surprising for me.
    pmps 276
    +2 306
    +3 212

    Gonna try and stay awake for a bit longer to get a +4. But I think the 4.5 may still be too much :)
     
  27. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Actually, I don't think 4.5 u is too much. I'd stick with it for a couple of cycles. They sure don't make this easy! o_O;)
     
  28. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    @Kris & Teasel I didn't see your post before I shot this morning. But you were right :)
    I reduced by .25 and he didn't have as much of a good day, still ok but 4.5 it is for now.
     
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  29. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    I don't think I would put him through intestinal biopsies not to mention the financial costs to you. An ultrasound was able to determine that Smoky had IBD and it had morphed into intestinal lymphoma. I'm not trying to scare you, your boy has IBS which can be treated.
    It was difficult to diagnose Smoky since I feel the symptoms of his FD masked the underlying symptoms of the lymphoma. Is your kitty losing weight or seem to have trouble digesting his food?
     
  30. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I was away for a bit but checking in from time to time.
     
  31. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    His weight fluctuates depending on how well regulated his FD is, usually between 12.5 and 13.5 lbs. He does do better on probiotics and proteins like duck, quail, etc... anything that isn't chicken/turkey. I've just had trouble finding ones that he will eat regularly. And venison is a no go - I swear I've tried every brand that's within carb content. The main problems have been diarrhea and small amounts of blood in the stool, no vomiting in about 8 weeks, not even a hairball. We haven't had an ultrasound done as my vets office doesn't have a specialist regarding ultrasounds. However, I'm up for seeing an internist at this point. We have had an x-ray which showed thickening of the small intestines and had the crap scared out of me that night by the ER vet, who I trust almost more so than "our" vet. He has had some acid reflux which we treat with pepcid and if he does throw up I usually give metoclopramide. Overall, he seems to be doing well. And actually reduced his insulin in the last 2 days, and he seems to be responding to it better. He's ALWAYS been a gassy kitty and pretty much always had bouts with diarrhea, no one ever seemed to think anything about it till we moved and got a new vet.

    And no worries :) We all have lives outside here. I'm sorry to see you lost your boy (((hugs)))
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
  32. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Nice to see you back here, Lisa. I hope you're feeling a little better now. :bighug:
     
  33. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Kris,
    I'm on vacation this week at ocean city in Maryland. I love the beach here and my mom and I go every year. I'm actually feeling guilty about going with Smoky being gone now and all. I'm doing a little better than I was.
     
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  34. Lisa and Smoky

    Lisa and Smoky Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the hugs.I'm glad he is doing better with the FD. Smoky also had to be fed novel proteins. My old vet didn't have a specialist either, had to find one on my own. I had the ultrasound done as it was less invasive and Smoky was 11 at the time. His results also showed thickening of the intestinal walls and he was diagnosed with IBD. I would suggest keeping a close eye on him. IBS might lead to IBD which could then turn into intestinal cancer. The vet thinks this is what happened to Smoky. Please keep us updated on Spicoli.:)
     
  35. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    He's been dropping FAST tonight.

    PMPS 349
    +2 220
    +3 108 - fed 15% food after this. started hacking after this so gave pepcid and anti-nausea meds.
    +4 116

    Gonna be up for a while!! Excited he's doing so much better at this reduced dose.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
  36. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    So close to a green! Come on, Spicoli, you can do it! :D
     
  37. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    He went up a little at +4 - 116. But I have to sleep sometime :) work in the am but going to try for a +5. I guess since he's been so high lately these lower numbers get me worried at night when I'm not awake to check on him...
     
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  38. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    How is he this AM?
     
  39. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    He was super high this AM - 572. I had to work but at +8.5 he was 177.
     
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  40. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    Bouncy boy has been bouncy. His AMPS are still usually in the 500s. His PMPS numbers are lower. I'm toying with the idea of lowering his PM dose a little to try and keep him from bouncing as much. Thoughts?
     
  41. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I think it's worth a try. You can always go back up in a couple of days.
     
  42. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't hurt to give it a try and see if it helps calm things down some.
     
  43. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    Think I'll try 4u. It's getting close to shot time and he's letting me know it :) He's a pretty vocal cat all the time, but when hungry he never stops!!
     
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  44. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    Well here's a curve ball...PMPS 116, rested same pokie at 123...
     
  45. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    I'm going to stall but I doubt he'll reach a shootable range in the next hour. What to do...
     
  46. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    25 mins later 149
     
  47. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    You can skip the shot or give a token dose (1 u?). Another thing I did when Teasel was on ProZinc was feed him, wait about 45 minutes, retest and then give a slightly lower dose.
     
  48. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    I can do that. just retested again at 50 mins after normal pmps at 161 so he is rising just VERY slowly. going to feed and give 1u. since i was going to reduce tonight anyways, it'll only be 1/4 of the dose he was going to get....

    Guess I'm going to be up a while :) But at least this is a great step forward.
     
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  49. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    geez. +2 353... is this a bounce or what? we shot at 161 1u.
     
  50. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    oh regretting not giving 4u...hindsight and all...
     
  51. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Ahh hated those moments. I had one last night :facepalm: but I was so exhausted I knew I wouldn't be able to monitor him closely. Then I passed out on the sofa shortly after :rolleyes:. Have you tried Pancreas Booster? I had Maury on it for a bit and I'm thinking of starting it up again :bookworm:. Wasn't sure if it was helping but I think it helped him bounce less afterall.
     
  52. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    I haven't... but I think we're going to. Any recommendations on brand?
     
  53. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    Bumped back up to 4.5.. he's been running high. Think he may be having a P flare.. just vomited 2 times mainly bile. Gave some pepcid and anti nausea... He's looking pretty uncortable right now but hopefully those will kick in and help some. If he's not better by the AM will prolly be going into the vet.

    Ordered the PetAlive P-booster this AM before all this.
     
  54. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Oh no, I'm sorry Spicoli isn't feeling well. Hopefully the meds will kick in and help him get back on the road to recovery soon. Let us know how he is!
     
  55. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    If you can, you might want to grab a ketone test tonight too. Please keep us posted on how he's doing. Sending healing vines :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  56. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    HAHAHA!!! I'm working on it. He won't step on saran wrap and both times I've gone to shower he's decided to go...the stinker.

    He seems to be doing much better this evening, ate a small snack late this afternoon, and ate most of his dinner (and breakfast this AM for that matter). Maybe it was just his IBS acting up. He hasn't thrown up again, either. But I'll be keeping a close eye on him :)
     
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  57. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    Oh he's also been playing pretty good. No mater how many toys I buy and rotate in, he tires of them. But bring out a tampon and it's magic. Weirdest thing ever. But he's always enjoyed tossing them around. Not to sound gross, but these are obviously new and in a wrapper. Maybe its the crinkle noise...
     
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  58. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    OMG... I'm dying laughing! I can absolutely see how a cat would think that was a great toy! And out of the wrapper, it's kind of like a mouse with a tail....:eek::smuggrin::cat::joyful:

    I haven't tried the saran wrap myself, but I think the idea is to wrinkle it up in the corners where he usually pees so it catches some urine in the wrinkles. Not to cover the whole box. I don't think Sam would step on saran wrap covered litter either. Although Atticus (who has a bizarre love of plastic) would probably think it was great!

    So glad to hear that he seems to be feeling better anyway. Fingers crossed it continues!
     
  59. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    I tried this too and it was a no go. Must be in the wrapper lol. He's been dong much better tonight and his bgs are actually dropping now.
    I've got lots of novel protiens coming along with s. boulardii, fortiflora, SEB, and p-booster.

    I'm a little hesitant to give them all at once, since I'm not sure of any reactions. I read this website http://www.foodfurlife.com/my-cat-has-diarrhea---what-do-i-do.html and it seems all are mentioned but the fortiflora but since he loves the taste and it's not a yeast like the s. boulardii, I can't see how it would hurt. Just hoping using them all together isn't wrong as long as I'm using the proper amounts. Maybe I'll skip the SEB for a while and see how the others do? Or just try one at time for a week or so with the p-booster.
     
  60. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    Feb 16, 2017
    I win!!! Finally caught him, negative for ketones, even tested it 2x to be sure.

    and at +3 he's at 269. I swear I didn't give a fur shot this AM but he stayed high all day. Must have been because he wasn't feeling well. I smell him and check his fur after every shot..
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2017
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  61. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Wes, PetAlive is the one I use too. It's pretty popular. I think holding off on the SEB while giving the other stuff a try is a good idea since SEB has to be given alone and nothing else within 2 hours. I'm going to tag Lucy, she's used s. boulardii, fortiflora, and SEB at the same time, *I think*. @Squalliesmom :)
     
  62. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    I believe the forti-flora should be fine. It's a probiotic, so I doubt it would affect much. I agree with Yong, maybe try holding off on the SEB at first?
     
  63. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Love the tampon toy story!! I've read other posts here about beans using them as toys for kitty. I'm glad he's feeling better. :)
     
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  64. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

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    Hi, Wes. I have used Fortiflora, S.boulardii, and SEB each singly. I have also used S.boulardii and SEB concurrently, just not dosed at the same time (e.g., S.boulardii at AM and PM meals, SEB at lunch or other times during the day). I have only ever used the Fortiflora by itself, but I can't see why using it in conjunction with the others should be a problem.
     
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  65. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    We started the S.boulardii today. The others are on their way still. So hopefully in a few days I'll see some results.
    Thanks! I was thinking about doing the SEB at a snack time at least 2 hours after anything else. But I'm going to hold off on that till I see how he does with the S.boulardii and FortiFlora and if things improve then maybe only use it when his tummy acts up.
     
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  66. W.K.

    W.K. Member

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    New food came today. I was hesitant to buy the Nature's Variety Instinct Lamb, Duck, Rabbit and Venison because he didn't take to them well before. It seems he likes the stinky new probiotic. He's gonna go nuts once the FortiFlora is in it too!! The duck is 11% so we might have to adjust for that. And for the most part I liked how they didn't include chicken/turkey. I think 1 of them has a little turkey in it... but what can you do. I also have some Halo Guinea Fowl (has some turkey), Wild Calling alligator, and Hounds and Gatos Lamb on the way, just to try some different things. He gets finicky if you feed him the same thing 2 days in a row.
    I know not to expect anything to change over night, but I hope his next BM is easier on him. This cat is going to be eating better than we do lol.

    Edit : WOW!! He just at at leat 4.5 of the 5.5 ounces I put down for his dinner!!! Haven't seen him eat that well in a LONG time :)
     
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  67. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Wow! Alligator! Who'da thunk it?!
     
  68. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    I'm glad I'm not the only one with a cat who requires a full menu of choices! That's great to hear that Spicoli liked his new dinner! Hopefully between the new protein options and the probiotics, he'll feel better!
     
  69. W.K.

    W.K. Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2017
    Seriously... I used to keep all 12 FF classics on hand because of this.

    Even though some of his numbers the past couple days might not be ideal and the vomiting/diarrhea we had, he's doing so good. Coat looks better than ever, grooming all the time like he used to, playing, all his normal cat things. Besides all the aforementioned I couldn't be happier with the "whole cat". He is happy so so am I :)
     
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  70. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Best news ever! :smuggrin: We forget that they can feel well even if they aren't ideally regulated.
     
  71. W.K.

    W.K. Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2017
    I know I might be going overboard with supplements but I was considering also adding in a B12. Since we do also use pepcid from time to time (hopefully we wont have to anymore) and I know it can cause a reduction in b12 absorption, it's something I'm tossing around.
    Do you guys and gals give B12 to your fur babies? He doesn't have nephropathy or any signs of it. Do cats just excrete any excess like humans do? I'm in the US and I see that the best form is by injection and requires and RX. I'm sure my vet would be opposed to this... Any advice?
     
  72. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    A lot of US people buy a B12 supplement online called Zobaline and give it (3 mg dose daily). It's been successful in helping many FD kitties with neuropathy. It's a water soluble vitamin and excess is excreted in urine.

    My guy doesn't have neuropathy but I felt his energy level was low a couple of months ago so I bought a lower dose B12 supplement (the methylcobalamin version) at a human pharmacy to try. He gets two 250 mcg tablets a day (1 tab AM and 1 tab PM) which translates into 500 mcg or 0.5 mg a day. I put it in his food dish with a little water. It easily crushes with a spoon and then I mix it into his food. It's tasteless (I tried it myself) and he's never refused his food because of it. I do think it's helped to boost his energy.
     
  73. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    I gave some injectable B12 (Cyanocobalamin) to Maury when he had his p-flare, once a week. This form can help with mild inflammation and GI upsets and if he doesn't use it all, he would urinate excess :).
     
  74. W.K.

    W.K. Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2017
    Think that I'll try the Zobaline first..

    Bumped up to 4.75u. He hasn't given me any blues (or greens for that matter) the last few days. Probably had some in the evening cycles, but I'm not liking all these high numbers.
     
  75. W.K.

    W.K. Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2017
    AMPS 479
    +3 340
    +5 371
    PMPS 478

    He was doing so good on the 4.5u!! If he doesn't drop a little lower tonight on the 3rd 4.75 cycle then up to 5u tomorrow I guess.
     
  76. W.K.

    W.K. Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2017
    AMPS 264, retested at 273.
    Went with 4.5u. Gonna be around today so I can monitor.
    But jeez. It didn't look like he was going anywhere after the +5 last night, then bam. I'm happy for the lower PS but I wish he was a little more predictable.
     
  77. W.K.

    W.K. Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2017
    +2 145 - gonna be watching him all day :)
    +3 88 - gave 15% carb food to try and slow his drop

    ketone test negative
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
    Reason for edit: +3
  78. W.K.

    W.K. Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2017
    +4 158

    That gravy food brought him way up, but with at least 2+ hrs left to drop we'll be doing lots more pokies today!!
     
  79. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    Woo hoo! Excitement! I know the pain of having an unpredictable kitty! ;)
     
  80. W.K.

    W.K. Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2017
    7.5 - 459
    I know some of it was food, but pretty sure this is a bounce.
     
  81. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    I'm with you on that...looks like a food/bounce combo!
     
  82. W.K.

    W.K. Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2017
    PMPS 624 WHOA!!
    5u. maybe I should have stuck with 4.5u or 4.75 (what we hve been doing) But I doubt that would have brought him down into any good numbers tonight. I'll be up so I can watch him. He will probably stay high for a few cycles now :banghead:
     
  83. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    I just saw your post over on the dry food discussion. I don't know if this could be a factor, but Sam couldn't tolerate any EVO at all without hitting higher numbers. It's only supposed to be 12% carbs, but there was something about it that just didn't work for him. I even tried just using it as treats, and even that was too much. I don't know what to suggest since i know Spicoli isn't the only kitty you're feeding, but thought it might be worth mentioning.
     
  84. W.K.

    W.K. Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2017
    Yeah... I plan on switching over to YA when it's time for some more dry, which will be soon. Typically he usually only goes over to the bowl while I'm right there to show me he's hungry. But I know that many kitties haven't done well this dry food. So it could be a factor, however he's been getting this since the beginning, even when he was regulated on .25u and getting a lot of NS. After he was DX we threw out the Science Diet and got this.
     
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  85. W.K.

    W.K. Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2017
    But as always thanks for thinking of us :)
     
  86. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    Remember, YA will send you a sample to try and make sure all the babies like it :). I think they'll send a sample of each formula if you really wanted lol. Dr. Elsey's will do the same, I've heard.
     
  87. W.K.

    W.K. Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2017
    I think with the YA I'll get a sample of the LID mature zero version, since all our fur babies are over 7 now, and it seems to have low phosphorus (correct me if I'm wrong) and one of the civvies was showing signs that he could be headed towards kidney problems with his last sr. panel. I'll be sure to get a sample before I buy, since it is kinda $$$. This civvie is even more picky about what wet foods he will eat than Spicoli, actually both our civvies are. But I try to bribe them with some FortiFlora :) and it usually works. I haven't looked into Dr. Elsey's yet, but I see lots of members feeding that as well.

    And we're having another very active cycle. Maybe the P-booster is helping? He was very high and flat last night after the bounce, and he'll probably bounce again today. There was actually no dry food left out last night, I left a bunch of different wet ones out.
    AMPS 459
    +3.5 158
    +5 113
    +6 73
     
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  88. W.K.

    W.K. Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2017
    I don't think the Dr. Elsey's will work. It looks like the only 2 dry food options I found on chewy are Chicken or Salmon. Salmon would work but I don't think they should be having that much fish, right?

    Edit : On second thought, it might be ok. His BMs have been getting better even though he still eats small amounts of the EVO chicken/turkey.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
  89. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    What a dramatic kitty! :eek:
     
  90. W.K.

    W.K. Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2017
    Right?!
    Depending on what his pmps # is I'm thinking of a reduction. I have Monday off but work the rest of the week, so I'd like to find a dose i don't have to worry about him on. Either way I'm happy he decided to read the manual :)
     
  91. W.K.

    W.K. Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2017
    So at +10 we're at 186. I figure he'll be around 260-300 for pmps. I can't stay up all night lol while I can get a +4 i imagine.

    So yesterday AMPS was 264 gave 4.5u and at +3 he had dropped to 88. Gave him MC food and he bounced like crazy.

    Considering 4u or maybe even 3.75.

    Thoughts?
     
  92. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2016
    I think 4 u would be OK but go with 3.75 u if you're feeling a bit gun shy.
     
  93. W.K.

    W.K. Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2017
    I think I'll stick with the 4u as long as he isn't in the 400's. Don't want to start taking steps backwards now that we're getting some action!! It has me terribly excited :)
    I'll be up late enough to tell if he's taking a nose dive again.
    Thanks :)
     
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  94. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    He's hitting the numbers you want to see, so reducing right now is going to stop that. I do understand that it can be stressful, but as long as you can monitor, I would keep going and let his body adjust to this. My guess is that he'll be higher again tonight, so you most likely won't need to stay up all night. Anything is possible with cats, but I'd be surprised if you got two active cycles in a row right now. Just my 2 cents.
     
    Yong likes this.
  95. W.K.

    W.K. Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2017
    He was 240 at PMPS so I did reduce to 4u. Maybe I shouldn't have... The 4.5u at 264 sent him down super fast - +3 was 88. Gonna grab a +3 in a little over an hour.
     
  96. W.K.

    W.K. Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2017
    Is this common when they're just really starting to have active cycles (again)? and bouncing some?
     
  97. W.K.

    W.K. Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2017
    +3 163, gonna stay up at least another hour or maybe 2 depending. but yay!!! another active cycle :)

    and im glad he isnt taking a nose dive this time.
     
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  98. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    If the dose is consistent, then many kitties will have an active cycle followed by a few higher flatter cycles. However, if the dose is moving around a lot, for example, people who dose on a sliding scale, then it becomes unpredictable with kitties spiking and dropping pretty much at random. That's one of the reasons why I lean towards consistent dosing, weighting the nadir more heavily than the pre-shots. Prozinc isn't a depot insulin the way Lantus is, but it also isn't as cleanly in-and-out as Vetsulin. On Prozinc, one cycle influences the next cycle which is why the protocol says to hold a dose for 3-6 cycles before changing (unless you get a non-shootable PS or a number less than 50).

    Food is a factor too though - if the food values (carb/fat/protein, calories, etc) change a lot, that can also make cycle that are difficult to predict.

    So yes, high flats are pretty normal when active cycles first show up, but there are a number of factors that influence how much you can count on that or not.

    And of course, the biggest factor is the cat. Sam is super predictable <<anti-jinx, anti-jinx, anti-jinx>>, but Teasel and Chuck are super unpredictable, no matter how consistent Kris and Steph are. So a lot of it is just trying it, collecting data, and figuring out what works for each cat.
     
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  99. W.K.

    W.K. Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2017
    This kind of made me giggle. Right now Spicoli has been very unpredictable. A big change from our start, which is why I ask for so much input these days :) But for tonight I just wouldn't have been comfortable shooting the 4.5u with the data (little it is on these numbers). Grabbing a +4 in a few, he had a snack after his +3 so he may/may not have moved much. Just trying to prevent those nasty high bounce cycles and keep him in good ranges to the best of my ability.

    But I ALWAYS appreciate any and all input from you guys. You few have helped me and Spicoli so much over these past few trying months. I wish I could give you all a great big hug :) I really cannot express how much I appreciate and respect all the advice all of you give us. If it weren't for you guys he might not be here now.
     
    Kris & Teasel likes this.
  100. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    Yes I believe I read somewhere the YAZ Mature is lower in phosphorus :). Nice cycles, Spicoli :cat:, stay off the trampoline for your momma :p
     
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