Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by W.K., Oct 14, 2017.
1hr 15 mins post preshot time and after feeding - 97
Hmmmm...he's sure not making this easy tonight, is he? So that's about 40 minutes after eating? If you shoot now, he'll most likely have close to two more hours to rise before the insulin kicks in and starts pulling him down. If he's still lower than normal, it might grab onto that lower number and keep him in some nice greens much of the night. But it also might cause him to dive. So you probably wouldn't get much sleep.
You can wait longer and see if he gets a food spike in the next hour, then shoot on a more comfortable number.
You could give a token dose, like 50% of his regular dose. You'd still need to monitor, but odds are better that he'll stay higher. I would still suggest giving another 30 minutes to get him to a higher number first, but doesn't need to be quite as high as the first option.
You could just call it a night and skip.
It would be really nice to see him have a cycle in lower numbers, but it's unfortunate timing that he's choosing a PM cycle when you need to sleep.
It's really up to you and what you feel like you can handle emotionally (if he dives) and physically (sleep is important).
For what it's worth, if it was me, I'd likely skip. I really really hate doing that, but he doesn't seem to be in any hurry to rise, and I don't do well with waking up during the night. I more often end up turning off the alarm without ever waking up.
I'm going to test again in a few. It'll be 2 hrs after our normal shot, and over and hour since he ate. Most likely I'm going with a NS or a token dose (1.5-2u if he's risen enough). I don't like not giving him insulin, but DANG! I'm happy to see this but he isn't making things easy for me.
Thanks for staying with me tonight
I guess I'll call this +2. 109. NS for tonight.
I'll probably wait to do a curve till tomorrow since I made his ears into pin cushions last night
It took me 3 tries to get some blood from Chloe this morning. Do you massage around the ear after you poke her? Sometimes it takes a few seconds to show the blood bead. Also, beware that he's not dehydrated.
I might squeeze a little where i poked if it's not bleeding well, but usually his ears bleed VERY well. I wasn't having trouble getting blood...we just had an odd evening full of pokies- see the above posts.
He did it again!!! Though not quite as dramatic.
will be up to get at least a +3.
I'm so sorry I missed your post yesterday! In hindsight, it looks like he probably could have taken the whole dose though, huh? It is nice to see those PS numbers coming down in the evening. Hopefully that trend will continue! As you get more comfortable shooting the lower numbers, it will hopefully be enough insulin to start bringing down the morning numbers too.
Yeah... he could have. At least I learned from it
I think that's one of the things that makes all of this so hard: we can never know until after a decision has been made. In the moment, we just have to make the best guess we can.
It looks like you might be on track for another low PMPS. He's not going to make this easy for you, is he?
He's been having later nadirs (like tonight and 10/14) to where we aren't at a shootable number when it comes time. Should I reduce the dose or hold it and hope things level out?
HAHAHA!!! No he's not. But he never makes anything easy But I do like seeing these lower numbers.
stalled for 30 mins - 171
going to let him eat and see what happens.
I'm really torn. If you lower to 4.25u, you might have a more comfortable PMPS. But I hate suggesting that when you're still getting so many reds and blacks. The other option is to shoot on the lower numbers, but you'd really need to monitor, and there is a chance he'd go lower and you'd need to steer. That's not too big of a deal during the day, but it's harder to manage at night. Another option would be to shoot an 13/11 cycle for a little bit, so your PMPS would be an hour later giving him time to rise. But that also means dinner is an hour late. You could give a snack about +9 or +10, but kitties have an uncanny ability to tell him and Spicoli might still get fussy at +12.
So what do you think?
I don't think the 11/13 will make much a difference since we've done that a few times in the past week. I'm just going to have to adjust his schedule back so that I'm able to stay up later and monitor him when he does this. I am concerned that our red/black amps is because he's dropping low already during the night and bouncing. It's already getting late here... 1 hr past pmps and I work tomorrow, so if I shoot I'll be shooting and running out the door. 1 hr + 30 mins since feeding only 191. suggestions?
I don't have alot of night time data, but I think 3-3.5u might be ok? I can stay up to get a +3, maybe +4 if I feel it's necessary.
I think either of those doses will be fine. At 191 you could most likely shoot the full dose with no problem, especially since you know he's rising. You've done this enough to understand that it's possible he'll go lower, although I think the data from the other two times he's done this recently show that he'll most likely be fine. But it's always a bit of a gamble, so it's up to you to decide which route you want to take.
If you can grab a +3 or +4 you should have a good idea if he's rising, or if the insulin has grabbed the lower number and is trending down.
Well, looking at the history, I think I'll just go with the full dose. Makes me a little nervous, but I'll be up to see if he's dropping too fast.
As always thank you Wish I could give you a big hug!!!
194 gave the 4.5. Will update this post as the night goes on.
+3 271 - so far looks like the full dose was a good idea!! he's been wanting food all night, kinda figured it's because he isn't used to being in these numbers for so long. either way, I've been letting him eat as he wants since he won't be getting anything after I go to bed (YA zero left out but no carbs).
+4 303 He's been doing this lately. Rising when he should be falling, then having a late nadir...
Got up to give Sam a test and stopped to see how Spicoli is doing. Looks like you’ll be able to get some sleep anyway. I wonder if this will hold his AMPS down at all, or if he’ll bounce from having a lower run today?
Sweet dreams to you both, and back to bed with me.
Been a busy past week with family in town!
When i squeezed the plunger after i withdrew I noticed a little blood mixed with the tiny bit of insulin that was left. I never get that list tiny drop out no matter how hard i push.
But should I be worried?
Probably nothing to worry about. Most likely you just crossed a vein and didn't actually shoot into it. The odds are definitely in your favor, it would be really hard to accidentally shoot into a tiny little vein. Apparently if you do inject into a vein, the results are very fast (within a minute or two) - with a crash in BG, so assuming Spicoli is still walking around, it means he's fine.
Awesome! He is I've just never had this happen before. I always check for blood but was very surprised (and slightly terrified) when I actually saw some today.
Started SEB today. The meds (Metronidazole) they gave us hasn't helped and neither has the FortiFlora or S. Boulardii. Going to restart the SB (Florastor) tomorrow afternoon, giving it 24 hr "reset" and start at a smaller dose. Also, switching over to a human probiotic in 2-3 days (when it gets here). His poor tummy We dewormed him a few months back and his flea meds should protect against most. I know what worms look like and haven't seen ANYTHING in his BMs. It just so frustrating when we had him back to normal cat bms before the antibiotics were given for his teeth. IDB seems like a constant battle, and I feel like I'm loosing. If nothing improves I guess we will be headed back into the vet next week.
It's tough, I know! I hope the new probiotic will help.
Oh I'm so sorry to hear his tummy is still giving trouble. Hopefully the SEB will settle him at least a little. I've had good success with it for both of my kitties, although Sam doesn't like the taste so I have to bribe him a little to get him to eat it. He's still eating okay though?
Yeah, he's still eating very well, no appetite loss. So that's good at least.
Thank goodness! The last thing you need is no eating. I hope he feels better!
Just a little update. His stools are still not ideal but parts of them are becoming more formed (more towards the start of the bm). So it seems that the SEB is helping. He doesn't seem to mind it too much, I just open his mouth and put about half the "gel" in at a time. Also, went back to the NOW brand of s.boulardii since Florastor contains lactose and I thought that might be exacerbating the problem. The new probiotics will be here Saturday...
If things keep moving the way they are I think we might be back to normal in a week or so. Fingers crossed
Yeah! I'm glad to hear he seems to be heading in the right direction again!
I keep my civie on a maintenance dose of SEB all the time now. It's about half of the recommended dose, but he gets it every day and it's made a world of difference for him. Every time I take him off of it, his problems come back, so it's just going to be his daily thing now. Thankfully, he doesn't seem to mind the taste, so I just smash the gel up with some freeze dried chicken and he eats it all up.
That's a good point about the different brands of probiotic. It's amazing all places sugar lurks!
That's good to know, and just earlier I was wondering about this since IBD causes inflammation and SEB helps with that.
Yes, it works for pretty much everything in the digestive tract. I use it for Sam's diarrhea, Atty's constipation and puking, and I've taken it twice myself for heartburn. Worked as well as my prescription meds, although I have to agree with Sam about the taste. It's pretty gross.
+3 65 (pet meter) gave HC (20%) food (MC food at +5 +6) and honey (x2 so far as the night went on). Going to be a long night. Earned reduction? He's going to bounce like crazy from this....
Our first serious hypo event. Handled Here's to all the info here for having me prepared.
Hi Wesley! How are you and Spicoli doing? I somehow missed your post on Friday. Good job managing the lower numbers.
We're doing good His tummy is still calming, but improving everyday. Friday night was rough! And so was work on Sat...
How are you and Sam?
Alas, Sam is struggling these days, and I leave tomorrow for a work conference. It's so incredibly difficult to leave him right now. I want to hover and keep trying to adjust his dose and try to find a way to get him back into better numbers again. He'll probably appreciate having a couple of days without me staring at him though!
At least I won't have to worry about him going low while I'm gone!
Glad to hear that Spicoli's tummy is getting a bit better! And while the drops are scary, it's really good to see him working the juice!
Oh no! I hate to hear this. Going to follow your thread Though I won't have the wonderful advice you have for me, I can at least be your cheering squad I sure hope things settle down with him soon.
No joke! But it seems like his little P is kicking in more and more these days. I just wish I could get some sort of predictability from him as I'm looking to change jobs and won't have the flexibility like I do now somewhere else... But till then, I'm staying where I am. I do love my job, but gotta chase those green papers!!!
oOoO definitely looks like mr. P is helping a little now .
It's funny. When his tummy troubles started I let off the zobaline and PB (scheduling made getting the SEB into him tricky with the others), but in the last few days started them back and let off the SEB a bit. I think we can say that between those and fixing his mouth (at least for now lol) things are improving! No upset tummy in over 36 hrs!!! I'll take this small victory Most of our "highs" in the last 6 days have been from bouncing... He still likes the trampoline Still going to use the SEB, but since the IBD and him not responding to the s.boulardii I kinda figured the the zobaline was more important for now.
Sorry TLDR - We're doing so much better!!! (and I'm super tired just staying up for a +6 so I ramble).
We'll take any small victories we can get!!
This isn't Spicoli related... Taco had his yearly check-up today. He also got into a cat fight yesterday. We found him (rather, he found us) and had been abandoned by his previous owners when they moved states. We had contacted them and they didn't want him. He's one of those cats that you simply CAN'T keep strictly indoors. He become depressed and overall miserable. He won't even use the litter boxes and pees in the plants We got our vaccines (rabies and combo) and had a few spots shaved due to some lacerations just to make to they looked ok. They gave him an antibiotic shot just to help make sure that nothing abscessed. I think Convenia, but he's had it before with no bad reactions. Still putting Bannix on the wounds and have some PetSilver on the way to try as well. We get our blood tests back tomorrow. His bladder was empty and they couldn't get a fecal sample either so he's going to have to go spend a few hours there in the next month (it's included in the Sr. Wellness at no extra charge) so they can get those. He has a heart murmur but from last year to this there's been no progression and the vet said it was barely noticeable both times.
Here's hoping his kidney lvls haven't increased beyond normal (the were high end of normal last year) and we're good to go! He's the best, most grateful kitty ever, though not affectionate at all. But I gotta love my Taco truck aka taco fish aka fish tank
Spicoli is doing pretty good. Had a high day, Increased back to 4.25 for tonight. Still having some tummy problems... but it's getting better. Just taking some time to get him back to normal. He goes the end of the month for blood work and vaccinations - just combo I think. Going to ask them to do a GI panel along with his SR. one, even if they have to send it to Texas A&M.
Hope you all are doing well to everyone.
Oh I'm so sorry to hear that Taco was in a fight! I hope he has a speedy and full recovery, and that all blood work and tests came back in normal ranges!
Does he seem to be feeling and moving okay? Give us an update if you can after you hear back from the vet on all of that.
PS I love that you posted pics of your kitties over on the National Cat Day thread because when you wrote about Taco, I can picture him now!
He's just fine. He's a VERY territorial cat, and it doesn't matter what's in our yard - cat, mouse, rabbit... He's going to chase it off and even then continue pursing it. But Of all the 3 I simply can't make him a "prisoner" as the DH calls it. Haven't gotten the blood work back yet, I imagine it was because it was sent off so late yesterday or our vet (not Spicoli's vet but soon to be) had a very busy day. I'll update when we get it in. For a slim kitty (for us) 7-8 lbs. hes so rough. Tore me up tonight when I had to break him and our feral up again...
I liked your picture too!!!
Spicoli has his yearly exam Wed. Before I take him in I always go over his body thoroughly just in case I spot something... Well tonight I did. I'm hoping it's nothing, but I found a small lump, maybe the size of a pea about 2" diagonally from this lowest right nipple. It's not on the skin, but under and in no way resembles a lipoma, which he also has between his shoulders. It seems sensitive when I touch it, or maybe it's just he doesn't like his belly being messed with. Either way this has me super worried.
Hope all of your babies are doing well
Oh goodness...hopefully it's just a little fatty tumor, or something else equally harmless.
Good luck at the vet on Wednesday! Sending vines for good results!
Was there an update on Spicoli's tummy bump?
Once we were at the vet I couldn't find it again, and neither could the vet... He said it being so small it's probably just mammary tissue but to keep an eye on it and to mark it and bring him back when/if I find it again.
We're waiting on our results on the GI panel now. Should hear something soon. Since Spicoli's had so much blood work this year the vet didn't think it necessary to do a sr. panel right now. Going to wait another 2-3 months. He's been running high, so we've been increasing - again. He's been pretty hoarse and I brought it up when we went in but his lungs sounded fine and no drainage. If it keeps up we're going back after turkey day.
And sorry I haven't been around in 2 weeks... Things have been stressful. Thinking about traveling with Mr. Chunky Butt have nearly made me want to call the whole trip off. I just needed a break. Even saying that seems ironic since you guys help keep me sane!!
Trying out the FRIO wallet mini on our travels this week. I'll let yall know how it works out. Hopefully I won't have to buy another vial
Wait, remind me about the traveling? Where are you going? Why are you taking him? I took both kitties camping with me this summer. It was quite the adventure (I mean that in a good way)! And what is the wallet mini? So many questions.....
Oh we're going back to Alabama to see family for Thanksgiving. It's about a 6hr drive depending on traffic. We're taking him because our vet is doing renovations to increase their size and aren't currently boarding. Also, it's cheaper, and he usually refuses to eat while he's at the vets. The last time we left him for 2 days he lost a lot of weight. So I figured while this will be stressful on him, hopefully it'll be less stressful than the vets. They said they'd take him since he's diabetic but I really had rather take him with us. I guess I'm just over protective He used to travel all the time with me from college back to home every weekend. Granted it's been a while, but I'm hoping it goes well.
Here's the link. http://www.frioinsulincoolingcase.com/frio-mini-wallet.html It's supposed to keep the insulin cool while traveling for up to 2 days? I think. Either way we won't be on the road that long. You soak them in cold water and the gel is supposed to keep the insulin an appropriate temp. I'll be taking an ice pack/bubble wrap/lunch box just in case.
That's a really neat insulin cooler!
I totally understand being protective. I have a great pet sitter who can stop in and give Sam his shots, but I worry about them whenever I have to go away.
Hopefully he'll enjoy the adventure instead of finding it stressful. And having those other experiences with traveling in college will hopefully help him. Have a great vacation!
HAHA! This is one reason I don't plan on having kids. I'd be one of those helicopter moms...
I sure hope so! He likes car rides (not in a carrier), exploring new places, and once everything has been explored he's pretty much anyone's lap cat. And thanks! We're going to try to make the best of it. Is sure hope his IBD doesn't act up too much. But I'm taking a can of carpet cleaner just in case His parents know what's going on, and they have 2 tiny dogs, a Chihuahua and a teacup yorkie, so nothing should be too big of a deal. He was raised with a pomchi and a black lab so I'm sure they'll get along in the end I mean he is nearly 3 times their size...
The cat door will be open so Addy and Taco can have free reign, which makes me happy. My step mom will be checking in on them and Carl - our 16in Plecostomus (algae eater, who we've had for 6 years!) and feeding them, watering, litter box duty. I hate to call her that, it sounds demeaning. Next to my Aunt - moms sister, she's my best friend. I was lucky when my mom passed to be blessed with such a wonderful woman Quick side note - I had dental work done today and painkillers. Enough said.
Sounds like a great trip! Ugh on the dental work, but at least there are pain killers to help afterwards. I hope you heal quickly!
Sam does great with big dogs, but with dogs that are smaller than him, he turns into a bit of a bully - lying in wait and then jumping on them, smacking them if they get too close, stealing their toys, etc. Hopefully Spicoli will be kinder to your in-laws' dogs! And that is a huge Plecostomus! I just looked it up and in a tank they can live 10-15 years. I had no idea they could live that long. At least they are relatively low maintenance.
We had a great trip!!! With some great numbers and no upset tummy issues!!! Of course he's running high tonight... but had a wonderful couple of days. The doggos he was with were no trouble and he made himself completely at home. The only trouble we had was when the house was full of people. He stayed in our room all of that time. The car ride(s) were a piece of cake, thank goodness. Of course as soon as we left today he had an upset tummy in the car. The DH fed him Pretty in Pink (salmon in gravy) this AM and it set him off. I only brought it in case he wouldn't eat. But at least now I know that that food is a no no for sure as he had completely normal BMs the entire time until he ate that.
Hope you guys had a great Thanksgiving! and are as stuffed as I am still!!! I finally had some pictures taken with him so maybe I can get those cropped out and post a few
Great travel report!
So glad to hear that the trip went well! It's interesting that you got such low PMPS numbers while on vacation. Sam did that too - when I took him on vacation he had great numbers. I think changing things up is good for them sometimes - just like it's good for us! Hopefully his tummy will settle down soon. Can't wait to see the new pictures!
Glad to hear the trip went well! I wonder if the reason they get those lower numbers is because they're so interested in all the new things that they're more active...and that helps bring their numbers down? Just a thought...
I think that's a big part of it. However it seems those good numbers are still trending somewhat lol. Fingers crossed!
Tummy has settled back down, no more fish for him!
Nice work, Spicoli! Keep going with those low PS numbers!
Got the GI results. Everything was normal (over the phone so I don't have a copy yet) except the specfPL. The normal high end is 3.5 and Spicoli was a 3.6. So maybe some low grade chronic pancreatitis...
How are you and Spicoli doing now?
We're doing good. Had a few high days, not today though
How are you and Mr. Maury?
He doesn't seem to be feeling too hot tonight. Gave some nausea meds, which seemed to help. Then I think I found that place on his belly. It's actually on the skin. A circular, white, flat, lump the looks like it might have a little drainage. I don't think it cause for an ER visit but we'll be back in the vets first thing next week unless you guys think I should go ahead and have this looked at...
You could post a picture of it on the Main Health forum and see if anyone has any ideas what it might be?
I'm sorry to hear he's a little under the weather tonight. Hopefully the meds and some rest will have him back to normal quickly!
I'll try that.
He ate well and perked up a bit after dinner but I'm still a little worried about my baby boy.
OH that's not happening.... due to all the fluff I couldn't get a good picture...and he wasn't having it. Tried a few times.
LOL...oh these kitties! They never do make it easy for us, do they? Do you think it's changed since the last time you found it? I guess my thinking is that it's been there for awhile, so assuming it hasn't really changed, I don't see any reason why it can't wait until Monday.
Well the thing is I never actually saw it when I first found it, only felt it. But it felt the same and he was relaxed at the time so I started actually looking tonight. And yeah, it's probably been there for a while.
His numbers went a little lower today than they have been in the past several, so that might be why he was a little icky. As of now, he's fine. Begging to go out, talking, eating, grooming, peeing, pooping.... Just likes to keep me on my toes. At least the other 2 are a little more "normal".
As long as he's acting mostly okay, I'd wait til Monday. Keep an eye on it (and take a pic if you can for the vet). I'm sure you'd both feel better seeing your normal vet (and the bill would be better too!).
He just likes to make me worry. He's been perfectly fine tonight, his usual demanding self
The vet was aware I found something, but we couldn't find it again while in there. Now I know exactly where it is. I'm sure it'll need to be aspirated, but fingers crossed it's nothing bad. I remember freaking out when I first found his lipoma. Luckily our vet's office has ER hours, and while it's more expensive, if the animal stays overnight they convert it to day prices. It's saved us a few times. Like the time he started vomiting blood while we were with the ER vet...
Thank you guys for helping me keep my head on straight I tend to go into insta panic mode whenever I find anything on any of my babies.
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