Squeaka Question 3/4/13 - BG going down unexpectantly??

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Madcapp, Feb 23, 2013.

  1. Madcapp

    Madcapp Member

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    Feb 23, 2013
    Hello, I'm new to the forum but my diabetic cat, Squeaka, was diagnosed in 2008. He's about 12 years old now and until this year he did phenomenally. This morning he had a seizure, and then another shortly after before we got the syrup on his gums. He had never had one before that we know of, but looking back he may have had one a couple months ago we didn't witness and didn't understand his behavior after as to the cause.
    I had gone to my vet some time ago asking about home testing and was immediately shot down saying that the tests you do at home aren't going to read anything of value. Another vet in the same office once suggested I put Squeaka down when he had a cold. Because he wasn't hungry and wasn't eating. I fed him broth and he was over the cold in a week with his appetite back. I don't like my vet. Never did, but because they diagnosed Squeaka, and he gets so stressed on car rides and they are the closest to the house I kept going. Since he was doing well. I'm not satisfied with this anymore as he is obviously not doing so well anymore. I'm looking for a new vet. I had tried several previously for my other cats getting their checkups so I could test them out and still haven't found one yet that seems to care about my animals, or be very knowledgeable about what is going on.
    I'm really overwhelmed with all of the information I'm reading on this site. But I want to understand it. I want to feed him a better diet and give him better insulin if that is what he needs. And I WANT to do home testing. I just don't know if I can start the testing on my own at least without a vet to help explain the readings, and I know my current one won't.

    Anyway, thank you for the wealth of information.
     
  2. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2010
    Re: New to the forum

    Welcome!

    If you think your cat had a hypo, reduce the dose! What insulin and dose are you using?

    You can learn to test without your vet's approval; its your cat, after all.

    Vet interview topics in my signature link if you decide to shop for a new one. Also Secondary Monitoring Tools.

    Tell us a bit more about yourself and your kitty.
     
  3. MommaOfMuse

    MommaOfMuse Well-Known Member

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    Re: New to the forum

    Welcome to the FDMB Family.

    Congrats on wanting to home test and we can certainly not only teach you how, we can help you understand the numbers. In fact the tests you get at home are going to tell you far more than the tests done at the vet's office. The reason for this is because stress raises BGs so if a vet bases the insulin dose off the numbers they are seeing in office the dose is going to be too high when the cat gets home and relaxes again

    Now for us to better help you I have a few questions to ask...

    1. What is Squeaka's current diet?
    2. What insulin are you currently using?
    3. What is his current dose and how often is it given?

    Now for testing at home...first thing you are going to need is a glucometer, any human meter will do just fine, and a lot of folks around here use the Walmart housebrand The Relion there are 3 that I'm aware of that work well and are inexpensive..The Prime, The Confirm, and The Micro I personally have the Micro and love it.

    Next is test strips to fit the meter you decide on, this is where your real expense is going to be so you will want to pick a meter that has strips that fit your budget, another reason for the Relion brand as they are about the cheapest strips out there, plus the added benefit of being able to access them just about 24/7 in most Walmart locations.

    Lastly lancets, we recommend at least 28-29 guage when starting out as the smaller the guage number the larger the hole they make. Most meters will come with a lancing device, so just have to make sure the lancets you pick fit that device although they are mostly universal.

    Now for the extras...ketostixs to test Squeaka's urine of ketones, these are cheap and you can find them with the other diabetic supplies.
    Something to back his ear when poking, just about anything will work here cotton balls, makeup sponges, or even a folded paper towel.
    And a rice sock which is basically an old cotton sock, with a little bit of plain uncooked white rice in the toe and knotted, which you are going to pop in the microwave for a few seconds to get it nice and warm but not hot (check it against your neck or the inside of your wrist) you will want to hold this to his ear for a few seconds to get it all nice and warm before trying to test as this will bring the blood to the surface.

    Mel, Maxwell, Autumn & The Fur Gang
     
  4. Denise & Honey

    Denise & Honey Well-Known Member

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    Oct 12, 2012
    Re: New to the forum

    hi - welcome to the boards. So glad you've joined.
    This site has so much info and so many people who want to help. Unlike a lot of vets, we know that feline diabeties is not a death sentence and can be managed (relatively easily once you're over the initial learning curve).
    Most of us only take our cats to the vets for non-diabetic stuff - eg. shots, dentals etc.. - we manage the diabeties as we know the cat better and have more info than the vet and so can make better decisions on the care.

    We can help with the home testing - its tricky at first but gets easier.
    As Squeaka has had seizures, you really do need to take extra care with the insulin and test before the shot.

    Also, you may want to add your location to the subject line - if a member lives in your area, they may be willing to come to you to demo testing.

    Denise & Honey
     
  5. Madcapp

    Madcapp Member

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    Re: New to the forum

    It's Lantus and he was getting 4 units and I'm taking it down to 3 units starting this morning.

    Thanks, I was looking at something about choosing a vet. I'll check the links. I was also looking at the home testing resources, I'm just concerned about my actual understanding of it all, and would like someone knowledgeable to help me along. I am trying a new vet this week, hopefully they are better.
    He's been on the diabetic dry food diet too. 1/3 of a cup. I think I'd like to get him on something better, I just have to figure out how to do this.
    He gets food and insulin twice daily. That's the treatment I've been on since 2008.

    About my kitty, well his original name was supposed to be Solar, but from the start his meow sounded so much like he was squeaking loudly that he garnered the nickname that eventually became his name. He's very vocal. He's black and white short hair. He was born to a stray kitty with only one littermate that we took in. He's noisy and he's messy and a bit of a jerk to other cats but I love him. His birthday was easter in 2001, so he's not quite 12 this year but almost.

    Me, I'm just a cat lover, like I'm sure everyone else here is. My kitties are my babies. I can't imagine life without cats. I want to be a better diabetic caretaker, but I think I really need help. I do have trouble comprehending medical terms. My learning curve for it isn't very good, so the reading often daunts me. That's why I really wish I could find a good vet to help me along the way. I'm afraid of making things worse, instead of better.


    I was looking at the Arkray on American Diabetes Wholesale, as that was in one of the topic pins and I use that site for my needles. It might be nice to have 24/7 access with the Walmart one. I'm not sure I understand what the lancets are. Are they in the strips or in the device to get the blood onto the strips?

    ketostix. Are Bayer ketostix okay or does Walmart have a good brand? I see the Bayer ones on ADW.

    Thank you for any help. I'll add my location to the subject line. I'm near some large cities but they're still about an hour drive.
     
  6. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    One warning. Do Not change the food until you are comfortable with testing and can monitor carefully. Our Oliver changed from dry to wet one evening and the next morning, he was 100 points lower than usual. If we hadn't been testing and had given our usual dose, he would have hypoed.

    Here is a shopping list for hometesting:


    A human glucometer. Any one that sips and takes a tiny sample is fine. Some members stay away from any meter with True in the name and the Freestyle meters. Some people think they are unreliable and read lower than other meters. The meters are often free at drug stores; it’s the strips that are expensive. You can, however, buy them on ebay at less than half the price of stores. Lots of people here also like the ReliOn from Walmart. It is an inexpensive meter and its strips are the cheapest around. Try the meter out on yourself or someone else before you try it on your cat. You want to be familiar with it before you poke the cat.

    Lancets and a lancet device. Usually, until the ears “learn” to bleed, a 26-28 gauge is good. Any brand will work as long as the lancets match your device.

    Ketone strips. (Ketostix) Just like human diabetics use. You will sometimes need to test urine if the numbers are high.

    Rice sack. Make this out of thinnish sock, filled with raw rice or oatmeal and then knotted. You heat this in the microwave until very warm but not hot. Then heat the ears before poking. You can also use a prescription bottle filled with very warm water. It provides a good surface to poke against.

    Also nice to have. Flashlight: so you can look at the ears and find the little capillaries that come off the vein running down the ear. Vaseline: Put a tiny smear where you want to poke. It will help the blood bead up.

    And some lo carb treats to give your kitty, successful test or not Lo carb treats

    Let us know how we can help.
     
  7. Denise & Honey

    Denise & Honey Well-Known Member

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    Arkrays are the same as the Walmart Relions - its just the maker's version.
    I buy the strips from ADW but have the meter from Walmart.
     
  8. Josie & Ripley (GA)

    Josie & Ripley (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nov 10, 2012
    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    Hello, and Welcome!
    You've already been given some useful information ~ I just want to stop by and let you know that home testing and treating FD is very doable, even without a vet's support. My vet recommended I put Ripley down upon her diagnosis in Nov., but upon seeing YouTube videos on home-testing, then getting much help & support here, I'm now so glad I didn't give up. (My vet still questions my treatment tactics sometimes, but then applauds me when seeing her results.)

    I hope you're able to find a vet who is more supportive.

    You're in great hands here, and we all love to help.

    ~Josie (& Ripley)
     
  9. Madcapp

    Madcapp Member

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    Thank you all for the help you've already given. I went and got the Relion meter today and did my first test tonight following instructions I found, as well as the manuals. The meter read as LO which said his reading is under 20 in the book. I gave him more syrup, it's about time for him to eat. Is anyone around who can give me anymore suggestions on what I need to do right now to get his levels back up to a safe spot?
    He's lethargic right now, didn't even really react to getting the prick in his ear but then he's an amenable cat anyway. But still, he only shook his head once when we let go.
     
  10. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    good catch! have you retested yet to see if the syrup has brought his numbers up some? if you haven't, go ahead and retest now.

    do NOT give a shot tonight.

    you want to pull those numbers up quickly. the syrup will help.

    do you have any high carb wet food in the house? feed some, not a lot. you don't want to fill him up in case you need him to eat more soon.

    i'll be waiting for your next test number. i'll also put a 911 icon on your first post to attract more attention.
     
  11. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    What I would do, before anything else, is re-test. Since you're new at testing, you might not have had enough blood on the strip (but enough to not get an error message). If you've re-tested and Squeaks is still getting a low reading, give some high carb food or corn syrup (Karo), honey, etc. to get the numbers up. Do not give your PM shot right now. You need to get the numbers up before you even consider shooting. You're going to want to feed then re-test every 20 min. until numbers are in a safer range.

    Here are written instructions for handling low numbers.
     
  12. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    have you had a chance to test again yet? Waiting for a number...
     
  13. Madcapp

    Madcapp Member

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    I let him eat the fancy feast I had, the wet food. And he ate a good amount of it and then had another seizure. I put more syrup in his mouth. I don't know what else to do. This doesn't seem to be helping
     
  14. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    how far away is the ER vet? They can put him on a drip to bring his numbers up more quickly.

    The thing with Lantus hypos is that they can last a LONG time. He would be safer at the vet.
     
  15. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    apply more syrup to his gums.

    is someone there to help you?

    how far is the nearest ER?

    can someone take you? bring the syrup with and apply in the car.
     
  16. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    I would rub some more syrup on his gums and go. Take the syrup with you in the car.
     
  17. Madcapp

    Madcapp Member

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    124 is what he just read
     
  18. Madcapp

    Madcapp Member

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    The ER vet is 30 minutes away and our experience with them is their first choice is to put them to sleep. I'm really scared to go there because they've done that to me twice now.
     
  19. Sandy and Brie

    Sandy and Brie Member

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    Can you get him to the ER? Is there someone that can go with you?
     
  20. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    they won't put him to sleep if you don't authorize it.

    I know what you mean, Lucy's old ER vet made me cry with his awful bedside manner. In the end, though, he saved her life.
     
  21. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    how is he acting now?


    even though his numbers are rising, i would take him to an ER since he was having seizures. i understand your concern about the ER, but his numbers may come back down once the syrup wears off. the ER vet will know how to handle it (put him on a dextrose drip & balance electrolytes). they can't just put him to sleep without your permission.
     
  22. Sandy and Brie

    Sandy and Brie Member

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    124 is much better. How long ago and how much insulin did he get? How is he acting now
     
  23. Madcapp

    Madcapp Member

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    He's just laying still right now. He got 3 units of insulin this morning at 9am
     
  24. Sandy and Brie

    Sandy and Brie Member

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    Jill is right
     
  25. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    i've been around for awhile and have helped many members deal with hypos. if i didn't feel strongly about taking him to an ER i wouldn't suggest it. i'd continue talking you through this. i just don't think it's in Squeaka's best interest to try to treat this at home.
    what do you think?
     
  26. Sandy and Brie

    Sandy and Brie Member

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    If you aren't going to the ER can you recheck his sugar 30 minutes from the last time. The syrup may start to wear off and he could drop again. Hopefully he will be on the upswing since he got his dose at 9am. Does he any other medical problems that you know of? Any recent blood work?
     
  27. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    we've seen lantus hypos last 16 - 17 hours from the last shot.

    one of our kitty's numbers didn't rise until 23 hours after the last shot.

    please reconsider going to the ER.
     
  28. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    I agree with Jill, I've been here a long time and have seen Lantus hypos last 16 hours or more. That could mean several more hours of testing every 20-30 minutes. The number is up a bit, which is good, but that could be just the syrup talking. It doesn't last for long.
     
  29. Madcapp

    Madcapp Member

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    I just called the ER vet and they wouldn't tell me anything. What do they do with ethe drip? Keep it on him for those 17 hours? I just want to understand. If he needs to go, then we'll take him but.. I just don't know.
     
  30. Madcapp

    Madcapp Member

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    He had a seizure this morning, befoer he ate and I gave him insulin not knowing because my vet never went over any of this with me. I tried to get his regular vet to see him and they refused to see him. Then we got his levels up, although we didn't have the tester, but he started acting better. Even with the insulin I gave him this morning. Then this evening he started being lethargic, I got those low results, he ate a lot of food and then had the other seizure.

    I don't know if this extra information helps or if the consensus is still the ER vet. I still wish they were more open with me on their treatments but that's most of the vets around here. They won't tell you anything.
     
  31. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    they'll keep him on a drip until he's stabilized. it may be a few hours. they'll likely keep him overnight.
    seriously, if he were mine i'd go to the ER and my cat does not do well in a clinical setting.
     
  32. Madcapp

    Madcapp Member

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    He just got up and started eatting again.

    He doesn't do well either. Or in the car. He gets so stressed out and he's terrified of strangers and strange places. It always makes me reluctant to take him anywhere
     
  33. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    my alex reacts much the same, but i'd take her for her own good.
    i'm concerned about the multiple seizures he's had today... this morning and tonight.
    it's your decision...
     
  34. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    it has been 1/2 hour since the last test, so how about another one? That might help with your decision.
     
  35. Madcapp

    Madcapp Member

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    Do you know what the up and down cycle of lantus hypo is? My husband is asking because he's really concerned about the treatment the ER vet gives us, has given us before.


    He's at 93 now and eating more.
     
  36. Sandy and Brie

    Sandy and Brie Member

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    More syrup. On my phone. Others will respond
     
  37. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    not sure what you mean by "what the up and down cycle of lantus hypo is?".

    we've seen lantus hypos last as long as 16 - 17 hours from the last shot. in one case a kitty's numbers did not begin to rise for 23 hours past the last shot.

    a kitty's numbers can bobble up and down for the duration of the hypo. it means you could have to continue testing and feeding every 20 - 30 minutes throughout the night... and this does not address the issue of the effect of having seizures on his body. only a vet can check him out for possible problems.

    mix a little bit of syrup in the food if he's eating.
     
  38. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    it's not the same for every cat or every hypo, unfortunately. I wish I could tell you for sure. The "up" you saw was probably just a spike from the food and syrup. That seems to be wearing off already. The vet can put him on an IV with dextrose, which will keep the supply of sugar constant until the insulin wears off.

    At some point, the number will start to rise on its own, either because the insulin is finally wearing off or because the body's protective mechanism will kick in and start releasing sugars into his system. There's no way to know when that will happen.

    Don't let him eat too much now. Just a couple of tsp. at a time. Mix in some syrup to raise the carb count. You don't want him to get too full so he won't eat later if you need him to. You also don't want him to vomit.
     
  39. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    I mentioned that I had to deal with a horrible ER vet with Lucy. She had DKA, which is different than hypo, but was very very sick. The guy actually told me that I should put her to sleep because I was wasting his time and my money by asking him to treat her. I'm usually very quiet, but I looked him in the eye and said it was MY money, and my money was paying him for his time, so he just needed to get over it and save her. I think he was shocked, but he did save her. Just don't let them push you around.

    I'm worried about the seizures too.
     
  40. Sienne and Gabby (GA)

    Sienne and Gabby (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    No vet can administer any procedure without your explicit written permission. The release you will sign should ask if you want the vet to administer life saving measures. You should have to initial that section of the informed consent. You can also write on the informed consent that you are not authorizing euthanasia based on the information you currently have. If a vet does anything that you have not consented to, they can lose their license. You have protections.

    If you need us, you can always post here and we will provide the support you need.

    The concern is that with a LO reading and seizures, it really does require the intervention of a vet. We don't know for sure if your kitty's low numbers caused the seizure or if there was something else going on. We just want to be sure that your cat is safe.
     
  41. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    it's time to test again...
     
  42. Madcapp

    Madcapp Member

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    84 now...
     
  43. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    more syrup, please.

    it's time to go to the ER...

    he's dropping when he should be getting a nice rise from all that syrup.
     
  44. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

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    and he had food AND syrup half an hour ago, correct? And we're about 13 hours after his shot.

    That last food/syrup didn't bump him up at all. It should have. More syrup.
     
  45. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    time for another test...
     
  46. Madcapp

    Madcapp Member

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    94
     
  47. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    headed in the right direction, but i have to say, his numbers should have soared by now from all that syrup.

    i'm worried about him vomiting from all that syrup. he could be in BIG trouble if he vomits... not to mention squeaka has had 2 seizures already today. i know you don't want him to have any more. please take him to the ER. he'll be taken care of until he stabilizes. they can also check him out to see if there's any concerns due to the seizures.
     
  48. Madcapp

    Madcapp Member

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    How much syrup should I have given him? He's gotten around 3ml I think maybe a little more, over this time. Should he have gotten more?
    I do want to take him, but there are other factors too I'm fighting against...
    If I had the means I would have taken him this morning... trying to find a solution...
     
  49. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    RECAP

    +11 ~ LO (gave syrup, fed low carb). SEIZURE.
    +12 ~ 124 (ate LC)
    +12.5 ~ 93 (ate, was there syrup added?)
    +13 ~ 84 (did he have food/syrup?)
    +13.5 ~ 94
     
  50. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    under normal circumstances, 3ml syrup should have boosted his numbers considerably.

    does your vet have an after hours phone number for emergencies or an answering service?
    seeing your vet would be less expensive than an ER.
     
  51. Madcapp

    Madcapp Member

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    At the 93 reading he ate but no syrup. Then when he dropped we gave him more syrup on his food and on his gums. He stopped eating for about 30 mins and I gave him a bit more syrup twice, just a finger tip on his gums. Then I tested and got the 94.

    My vet doesn't. They just tell you to go to the ER. We contacted a friend's vet a bit ago, that's why it took me a bit long to come back with the test, but they're an hour away and they said to take him to the ER that's closer.
     
  52. nckitties3

    nckitties3 Well-Known Member

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    Please head the advice they are giving you.

    If there are reasons that you absolutely can't take him to the ER, you might want to make coffee, you're going to be up for a while, maybe all night. Hang in there!



    You are in my prayers and hope you and your sugar baby come out of this ok.
     
  53. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    how is he acting now? And is he still interested in food when you offer it, or is he getting full?

    Lots of syrup can give them a tummy ache or make them vomit. That's a big concern at this point because his numbers would drop and you probably won't be able to get more food into him then.

    Understand that even though his numbers are ok right now, that is because you are keeping them propped up with the food and the syrup. If the food and syrup stop going in, then the numbers will drop.
     
  54. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    whatever you can do to make this happen... even your friend's vet said to go to the ER.
     
  55. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    it's time for another test...
     
  56. Madcapp

    Madcapp Member

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    Feb 23, 2013
    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    He's resting now. He ate a little more after I tested him at 10:40. Then curled up to sleep some.
     
  57. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    then the next test is due at 11:10pm.
     
  58. Madcapp

    Madcapp Member

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    Feb 23, 2013
    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    85.
     
  59. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    can you squeeze the "juice" out of a can of food and mix the "juice" with some syrup?

    i'd like to get some carbs into him without filling him up.

    retest in 30 minutes...
     
  60. Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    RECAP

    +11 ~ LO (gave syrup, fed low carb). SEIZURE.
    +12 ~ 124 (ate LC)
    +12.5 ~ 93 (ate, was there syrup added?)
    +13 ~ 84 (did he have food/syrup?)
    +13.5 ~ 94
    +14 ~ 85
     
  61. Madcapp

    Madcapp Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    +11 ~ LO (gave syrup, fed low carb). SEIZURE.
    +12 ~ 124 (ate LC)
    +12.5 ~ 93 (ate, was there syrup added?) No syrup added
    +13 ~ 84 (did he have food/syrup?) ate but no syrup. added after this reading
    +13.5 ~ 94 syrup and food
    +14 ~ 85 a little syrup, no food.
     
  62. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    do you have a good supply of test strips to last the night if necessary? you might have to test every half hour or more if you can't get him to an ER.

    can you send DH out for some high carb wet food? look for varieties that say "with gravy" or "gravy lovers".
     
  63. Madcapp

    Madcapp Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    My husband can go out to Walmart and get more strips. I only got the 20 pack but he was asking if he needed to go get more. I still have half of them, but I'll send him soon most likely. He can get more food then too.

    I'm still working on some way to be able to take him...
     
  64. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    i'm really happy to hear you're still working on getting him to an ER.

    we're trying to help, but neither libby or i feel comfortable with handling this at home. this isn't a simple low number event. this could turn very, very ugly at a moment's notice.

    he really needs to be hospitalized...
     
  65. Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    Test time in five minutes...
    Carl
     
  66. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    I would send DH to the pharmacy soon (maybe call first). My Wal-Mart's pharmacy counter is not open 24 hours. Sometimes they have strips in the little boxes out on the shelves, but often they are out and you have to ask at the pharmacy counter.

    Have him get Fancy Feast or Friskies with gravy while he's there.

    That said, I hope you can get him to the vet. As Jill said, this is more than we are comfortable handling at home. We'll do the best we can to help, though, if this is what you have to do.
     
  67. Madcapp

    Madcapp Member

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    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    Is there anywhere else I can get blood from? I'm having trouble getting anymore from his ears.
     
  68. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    some people use the paw pads. The big pad. I think you would need to use a deeper lancet setting (if you're using a lancet device) and squeeze to get the blood out.

    Are you heating his ears? You can use a rice sock (uncooked rice in a sock, heated in the microwave for a few seconds to warm it up), or a warm washcloth, or just rub the ear for a little while to get the blood flowing. Lucy LOVED her rice sock, I would rub it all over her face and her ear so she would think she was getting a warm massage.
     
  69. Madcapp

    Madcapp Member

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    Feb 23, 2013
    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    I'm using a warm washcoth wrapped in a bag. It's been working up til now. He's getting really irritated with me.
     
  70. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    Are you warming his ears and making sure the bevel is up on the lancet?

    You can test his back toe pads but you'll need to warm them. They don't bleed as easily as ears. You will also need to be sure you hold a cloth to the spot to make sure it stops bleeding and then put neosporin on it. Some cats tolerate it, some don't.

    This is another reason to keep working on getting him to the ER. You have to be able to test.
     
  71. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    if you can't get a number yet, give him some more food/syrup while you're working on it, just in case he is dropping.
     
  72. Madcapp

    Madcapp Member

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    Feb 23, 2013
    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    We're leaving now to the ER
     
  73. Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    Sending prayers your way.
    Carl
     
  74. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    good, I'm glad to hear it. I know it's stressful, but it's really the best place for him to be.

    Please update us when you get home.

    (((((hugs)))))
     
  75. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    it'll be the best place for him right now.
    take care and let us know how things are going...

    (((((hugs)))))
     
  76. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    how is squeaka today?

    i hope you'll be able to rest up a little today. you must be exhausted after last night.
    be sure to pat yourselves on the back. you did an awesome job keeping squeaka's numbers steady! he's lucky to have you in his corner.
     
  77. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    How is Squeaka doing? I hope he is ok. Let us know

    Wendy
     
  78. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    me too. I've been thinking about you today and hoping everything is ok.
     
  79. Madcapp

    Madcapp Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    I've been sleeping most of the day. I don't feel well with all of this. The got his blood sugar up to normal levels but this evening he had another seizure even though he was at 230. We'll know more when we go get him tonight but we can't keep him there. We have no way to. We can take him to a regular vet tomorrow to get his bloodwork done to see if it's kidney failure causing the seizures but we're at a precipice. We don't want him to suffer, but we don't know what's causing them. Even if we do, if he's going to continue having seizures.. that's not good for him. I don't want my baby to suffer. I wish I could do more. I'm scared, confused, helpless and really hopeless right now.

    I really appreciate all of the help and advice everyone gave me trying to help him and us. I so wanted it to only be the insulin that caused it. That seemed logical, but not now unless there is residual effects because of the seizures.
     
  80. KJ & Alfred

    KJ & Alfred Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    I am far too new to offer any kind of advice, but just wanted to wish you and your cat well. I'm amazed at all the responses and advise and encouragement this forum provided you last night. I'm so grateful I've found this resource. Sending lots of good wishes.
     
  81. Josie & Ripley (GA)

    Josie & Ripley (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2012
    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    I also don't have any advice. I just want you to know I'm keeping you and Squeaka in my thoughts.
     
  82. rhiannon and shadow (GA)

    rhiannon and shadow (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2012
    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    There are many of us here watching to see if he's okay.
    I hope you'll come back and tell us what the vet says.
    Prayers for you and your furbaby!
     
  83. Hope + (((Baby)))GA

    Hope + (((Baby)))GA Senior Member Moderator

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    Any chance he might have gotten an electrical shock somehow...chewing on a wire, etc.? Next, any chance of getting a good cardio check with EKG and echo? Also, full moon coming up.......chance for hypos, seizures,ketones, etc. full moon can affect a lot of things in humans and animals. I had an oldie that would throw a seizure about once a month......kept her on pheno low dose every day.
     
  84. Madcapp

    Madcapp Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    I know he hasn't gotten into any cords. He mostly just stays in the bedroom and everything in here is intact.

    To get anything else done we'd have to wait until tomorrow if the other vet will see him. We just can't afford it ourselves and my dad offered to pay the other vet but not the ER.
    I never heard about the full moon stuff before...
     
  85. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

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    Nov 15, 2011
    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    Epilepsy?
     
  86. Madcapp

    Madcapp Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    It could be any number of causes. They don't know. He never had seizures before now. Before he was diagnosed with diabetes he never had any problems. And he never had any problems since, until now. I can't really think of anything that's changed in the last bit either, other than age and how long he's been diabetic... I just don't know.
     
  87. Libby and Lucy

    Libby and Lucy Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    Seizures would scare me too. I hope your vet will be able to figure it out and that the solution is something fairly easy. I don't have experience with seizures to know what the causes might be. I would cling to what Hope posted, that her cat just needed a low dose of meds. At least that lets you know that a good outcome is possible, though I know some of the other possible outcomes are more scary.

    I really do hope there is a reasonable solution. You have worked so hard and I want Squeaka to get better for you. You both deserve it.
     
  88. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    Hi. I just wanted to say that I have been following your thread, but have been staying out of the way.
    I am keeping your Squeaka in my prayers. Sending White Healing Light to your boy.
     
  89. Madcapp

    Madcapp Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    We just brought him home. We'll make an appointment for followup tomorrow at a regular vet. He did have another episode after the first one that was face twitching and tremors. We'll monitor for any of that tonight. He was at 240 the last the vet checked. They told us to get him to eat and if he does eat his usual 1/3 cup to give him 2 units of lantus. I'm a little scared to give him more lantus at this point but I'm trying to get him to eat all his food at least. He seems hungry.
     
  90. Denise & Honey

    Denise & Honey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2012
    Re: New to the forum - Winchester, VA, USA

    I'd be scared too.
    Can you change your subject line to add "Dose ?" and put a question mark icon on? It has to be the 1st post.

    Hoping a dosing expert will step in.
     
  91. Re: Back From the ER after Hypo - ??DOSE??

    I can't answer your dose question, but I'm hoping you maybe didn't give any tonight?

    I was able to update your "Subject" and add the question.

    Carl
     
  92. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Re: Back From the ER after Hypo - ??DOSE??

    Cats who we suspect may have had a hypo are often very sensitive to insulin. I certainly would not give him 2u. I'm assuming you didn't shoot tonight. Since you are supposed to see your vet tomorrow, I'd discuss it with him and check back in here so we can see how he's doing.

    I'm glad he's home with you and hope the seizures will stop.
     
  93. Blue

    Blue Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Re: Back From the ER after Hypo - ??DOSE??

    There's medication to control seizures, so you may want to discuss it with your vet. I know of another diabetic cat who had meds for seizures.
     
  94. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Re: Back From the ER after Hypo - ??DOSE??

    You might check for urine ketones/glucose with ketodiastix until you can see the vet today.
    Ketones suggest some insulin is needed; glucose in the urine indicates that blood glucose is over 240, the renal threshold.
     
  95. Madcapp

    Madcapp Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Re: Back From the ER after Hypo - ??DOSE??

    I gave him just 1.5, a little less, because I was scared to give him any, but as he was at 240 I thought I should follow what they said. He did well in the night. He did drink a lot of water and urinate a lot. I didn't get to check for ketones. Checked his level this morning and he's at 145. He goes in to the office at 2:15 today. I'll feed him again around 11am, as he got his food a little before 11:30pm last night. And I want to check him again after eating before giving him any dose.

    He's moving all around today. Walking around seeing if he can sneak food and purring, rubbing on us. Haven't seen anymore seizures or twitching.

    This whole experience has actually made me sick.
     
  96. Re: Back From the ER after Hypo - ??DOSE??

    If you plan on giving him a shot before the vet, you should test his BG before feeding rather than after, so the number isn't confused by food.
    Carl
     
  97. Madcapp

    Madcapp Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Re: Squeaka Dose Question for tonight. 2/25/13

    Squeaka had his follow up today. His panels were all normal except for a very low red blood cell count and a bit of a high white blood cell count. The doctor said to get him to eat as much as possible. He's eatten a bit but I would've liked to see him eat more. I'm not sure if I should give him any lantus at all. He hasn't had any since last midnight and that was 1.5 units. The doctor's were telling me to give him 2 units. I just checked him, he ate about 20 minutes ago and his reading is 137. Should I give him any lantus at all?
     
  98. KPassa

    KPassa Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    Re: Squeaka Dose Question for tonight. 2/25/13

    I wanted to jump in and say, "welcome!" :YMHUG: I've been lurking about, watching everything you've been going through. Great job you're doing so far with Squeaka! :thumbup You must have nerves of steel! Or a very calming husband. I would have been a frantic wreck! :lol:

    Did the vet say whether or not he thinks Squeaka might have an infection? How are his teeth? Any information as to why the WBC might be elevated? Any relation to the seizures?

    I'm not nearly knowledgeable enough to give dosing advice, but at the very least, I'd hold off on giving any insulin until someone more seasoned comes along to comment. (I've personally never shot anything under 140, yet.)
     
  99. Madcapp

    Madcapp Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Re: Squeaka Dose Question for tonight. 2/25/13

    The vet seemed a bit mystified. He gave me antibiotics in case there is infection because of the white blood cell count. I gave him that. He ate a little bit more after. I'm really hesitant to give him any lantus at all with it only being 137. I do know at the vet's office around 4pm they checked and it was 120, so it's going up. But this morning at 9am it was 145 and it went down on it's own.
    His teeth were okay, gums were pale because of the anemia. No one seems to know why he had the seizures. Whether it was triggered by the hypo and then the anemia triggered by that seems the most likely scenario just from reading on the internet. The vet's don't know though, but there is a test coming back on Wednesday to check if his bone marrow is still producing red blood cells. I feel a little scared that they seem so lost on this.

    Any advice on the lantus is appreciated. It's past his usual dosing time but I don't think I'll give him any at all unless I'm advised otherwise.
     
  100. rhiannon and shadow (GA)

    rhiannon and shadow (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2012
    Re: Squeaka lantus Dose Question for tonight. 2/25/13

    I posted over in the TR lantus forum for someone to come advise you...
     

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