Still some confusion about food

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Vtambo & Rex, Jan 3, 2018.

  1. Vtambo & Rex

    Vtambo & Rex Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2017
    Hi all - have not been to this site for a while. Rex has been doing very well with blood sugar regulation. he is consistently 150 or lower. He tolerates testing if I don't do it multiple times EVERY day. I have figured out his dosing basically on my own. I was getting nowhere with the vets. Anyway, at his vet visit in August his kidney numbers were elevated and he had blood in his urine. since that time I have researched CKD (Tanya's website) and learned many things. He no longer has blood in his urine (which the vet feels was caused by a kidney stone), but I have not had bloodwork done since August, so don't know how the numbers have changed if at all. he is eating well, acting normal, and has gained some weight (which he had lost while trying to regulate the diabetes), his coat looks fabulous, so I am not TOO worried, but I am still struggling with the food. since we all know, the diabetic diet and the CKD diet are about as far apart as can be. Rex was on Nutro Natural Choice for the diabetes, but I am having a hard time finding out information about phosphorus, and he is apparently getting tired of it. I somehow came across one of Dr. Amy's food charts from 2012 and saw some other foods on there that would meet the criteria for both conditions, but when comparing to the 2017 chart many of the foods on the 2012 chart were much different, and/or don't exist anymore. also, nothing was ever posted on the 2017 chart about the Nutro food so I was able to figure out the carb numbers, but still have no way of knowing the phosphorus numbers. I cannot find a good phosphorus calculator. does anyone have any ideas on what foods are good for diabetes and CKD together?? No fish flavors. he hates fish.... go figure...

    wishing everyone a great 2018 - full of healthy kitties! :cat:
     
  2. Veronica & Babu-chiri

    Veronica & Babu-chiri Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2016
    Hi I think you could take Dr. Lisa's list and pick from the low carb (10% or less) the lowest phosphorus posible, the prescription diets are under 100 mg phos/100 kcal but they are also very high in carbs which will really mess up his diabetes and low in protein and unless your kitty is in the late stages of CKD it is not really very good to get them low , I think you could pick one that is close to 100 and low carb and that would be OK, Weruba has some , and see if you can get them where you live or if he likes them, in my case Babu is getting a home made diet because none of the comercial diets are available where I live. If he won't have any of the low phosphorus you could also add some phosphorus binder to his free regular food

    This is the link of the sortable list
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...m6PPfEUz9YmzMGMxkmcBk6uRR0/edit#gid=113878384
     
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  3. Vtambo & Rex

    Vtambo & Rex Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2017
    I have poured over Lisa's spreadsheet many times. the problem I am having is that he doesn't like many of the foods. He really likes/liked the Nutro foods, but there is no info on the spreadsheet about that. I have tried contacting the company and have gotten really nowhere. I have been able to calculate the carbs with a carb calculator, but have not been able to calculate or get info on the phosphorus. We tried the prescription kidney food and within one day he went from a well-regulated diabetic to blood sugar numbers nearing 500. So that is not an option. my vet said we could just regulate the sugar with more insulin, but I didn't feel like that was a good option. those prescription foods are not the best quality foods anyway, and expensive. The Weruva brand has a lot of options, unfortunately so far he has not liked any of them. I may have to keep trying. he seems to be sensitive to carrageenan as well, so have to look for that on the labels. have already tried the homemade option as well - no go. tried Darwin's frozen - doesn't like that either. :( I have tried the phosphorus binders. seems like the Phos Bind makes him throw up (?). I have also tried the Epatikin but I know that is not as effective. deep sigh.

    thank you for your info/opinion. appreciated. :)
     
  4. Veronica & Babu-chiri

    Veronica & Babu-chiri Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2016
    What phos binder have you tried?
    What did you tried for your home made food ?Babu's home made is chicken or turkey thighs, egg whites and liver plus a lot of supplements
     
  5. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Weruva bff cans are lower phosphorus and low carb. I feed that when I had a ckd cat.
     
  6. Vtambo & Rex

    Vtambo & Rex Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2017
    I tried a brand called Rx Vitamins Phos-Bind fro Amazon and I also treid the Epakitin which is calcium based. the PhosBind seems to make him throw up. maybe if I just reduce the amount it would be better? the epakitin he seems to tolerate, but I know there can be issues with calcium and that one is not as effective as the Phos Bind. I don't even recall the homemade food recipe. it was a while back, but he wouldn't even lick it. :( Spoiled! (the cat that is...) I actually just cooked a duck over the weekend and tried to give him some of that and the giblets. he turned up his nose at that too. we will just have to figure it out. I just thought maybe someone had an idea on phosphorus levels for the nutro foods, or had other suggestions besides stuff I have already tried.
     
  7. Vtambo & Rex

    Vtambo & Rex Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2017
    he doesn't like any of the weruva flavors I have tried. guess I can keep trying. their tastes change as we all know..
     
  8. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    I fed Saoirse 8 mini meals a day and split her daily AlOH dose across all of the meals so she only got a tiny amount in each feed (mixed in well with her wet food).

    Be sure to get regular blood tests done when adding phosphorus binders to food to make sure that the actual phosphorus level in the blood is OK.


    Mogs
    .
     
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  9. Vtambo & Rex

    Vtambo & Rex Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2017
    good suggestion. Rex is a grazer so I could just add a little at a time over the whole day.
     
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  10. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    I hope it'll help. :)


    Mogs


    ETA: Let us know how it goes!

    .
     
  11. Veronica & Babu-chiri

    Veronica & Babu-chiri Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2016
    Actually the phos binder works better if you give him a little with each food so you can split the dose in several meals

    The epakitin is OK if his phos levels aren't to high is less effective mainly because you only give it twice a day and the fact that it's main ingredient is calcium carbonate shouldn't be a problem unless his calcium levels are aready high it also has other ingredients that they say help his kiddneys so if he tolerates it you could give it a try and see what his labs results are after using it

    My kitties are quite difficult also, they won't even touch chicken if it is raw or boiled for example and do not like chicken breast but they accepted the chicken thighs as long as they are cooked in the oven

    I hope some of this ideas help
     
  12. Vtambo & Rex

    Vtambo & Rex Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2017
    it makes me laugh hearing how all our kitties are super picky and we as their moms and dads are willing to try all this stuff to accommodate their finicky ways. dark meat, no white, baked, not boiled, no giblets please, etc. ha ha ha.... ;):confused::cool::p:eek::rolleyes:
     
  13. Veronica & Babu-chiri

    Veronica & Babu-chiri Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2016
    Yes they are something, when I started changing their food from the instinct cans they were getting to the home made one of my civies will only eat it if I gave her a little of the home made food and a little of instinct but not on the same plate (I tried ) it had to be served on two adjacent plates, eventually I began serving less and less of instinct but some days she still asks for both.:rolleyes::p
     
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  14. Vtambo & Rex

    Vtambo & Rex Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2017
    too funny. mine likes Brewers Yeast sprinkled on his food and will not touch it unless I sprinkle (or sometimes just pretend to sprinkle). literally will wake me up in the middle of the night so I can "sprinkle" his food. I have actually taken this "opportunity" to get some supplements into him. I give very little of the brewers yeast anymore because I think there could be some phosphorus or other issues with it daily, but usually need to mix just a little in with whatever ground up supplements I want to give him. I also bought him one of those elevated dishes once since I figured since he is older, he might like to not have to bend over so much to eat - would not touch the food in that bowl. another cat that I had would only drink water out of a blue cup in the sink. how do they get this way?? cracks me up. by the way - what is a "civvie"? I have often wondered?
     
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  15. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    In FDMB parlance, a civvie is a non-diabetic kitty (part of the 'civilian' cat population).


    Mogs
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  16. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Try a flavor enhancer maybe such as FortiFlora or Bonito flakes
     
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