Summer update from Gandalf and dosing question

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Helena and Gandalf, Sep 11, 2017.

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  1. Helena and Gandalf

    Helena and Gandalf Member

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    Hi again everybody! :bighug:(Post will end with question about dosing)
    We are finally settling in our routines again after a long and lovely summer break in the Swedish archipelago. I thought I could update anyone that is interested on how our summer with an outdoor diabetic kitty went. It might be helpful to someone and maybe serve as some inspo, who knows. :)

    Gandalf has been running free all summer on an island with a lot of forest and meadows, without any cars. Outdoor kitty heaven! We have kept him inside night time so we did not have to to go look for him every morning, thus making the AM shots a lot easier than last summer when he could go outside as he pleased. He was okay with this setup almost from day one, even though our cabin is only 15 squaremeter... :cat:

    We had been working really hard during the spring to find a dose we would be comfortable giving him without close monitoring. We settled at 1.4 U and though his values have not been ideal during the summer, he at least seemed to be feeling well, and we did not have to worry as much for hypos. But I must say that we were able to test a lot more than we had expected. He is very social and likes to hang around you so he was almost always nearby. We could usually just call him when we wanted a test. He is also extremely stubborn. If he does not want to come home he will just ignore you, even though he is in the bush right next to you. :rolleyes: This was a huge problem last summer!

    Another huge problem last summer was getting him home in time for his PM shot. This was also a lot smoother this year. I think he missed the 1 hour window for his shot only a handful of times. We chose to go about it by giving him a greatly reduced dose (usually 0.4 U) when he finally did come home, since we now he needs his insulin. This seemed to work out quite well.

    The only thing that didn't work was that either the dose was not enough, or he was not getting enough food to match the increase in his activity level, because he dropped a bit of weight during the summer. :oops: The amount of food to give him was very hard to evaluate because he hunts so much on his own when he gets to roam free. Worth to note maybe is that he is raw fed, so his prey corresponds to an extra meal for him. I tried to note every time I saw him eat his pray but eventually gave up because we are talking several times a day here. :rolleyes: We just settled on a food amount and kept it for the summer. He has since we got back gained some weight back again so he is no longer dropping!

    So now to the present. We almost immediately started with increasing the dose again when we got back. We only had to go up to 1.8 U to get some action again. We tried some different dosing and settled on 1.6 U which we have been keeping for little over a week now. Gandalf is quite prone to bouncing and the last 4-5 cycles he has been laying very flat in the low to mid yellows. These are really good PS for Gandalf but we would like to see him drop a little bit lower during the cycles. His last active cycle, on 1.6 U, dropped him to around 8 mmol/l and that was enough to send him right up to pink. I think it is time for a dose increase but would like it if we could ease him down the BG scale to try and avoid bouncing. We have 3 hours until PMPS and I think we will try a fat 1.6 U tonight. Does this seem like a good plan? Or should we just bite the bullet and increase by more to get som action and then try and the deal with the bouncing?

    Sorry for the long post! :)
     
  2. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Welcome back, Helena and Gandalf! :smuggrin: Your holiday sounds like heaven for kitties and humans. I'm sure Gandalf loved being the true little hunter/carnivore that he is!

    I think you can try a fat 1.6 u tonight. I know what you mean about wanting to avoid bounces. I have to be very careful with dose changes for Teasel.
     
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  3. Helena and Gandalf

    Helena and Gandalf Member

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    Then we will try the fat 1.6! Wish us luck!:cat: Unfortunately his PMPS was a bit higher than the last cycles, hopefully a tiny increase is enough for some action!

    Teasel seem to be doing really well on Lantus!
    I noticed Gandalf and Teasel both got diagnosed in January 2016. If you don't mind me asking, what is your long term goal for Teasel? We had our eyes set on remission when we started our journey, but for each day that seems more and more unachievable, we would feel so lucky if we could just reach some kind of regulation. :(
     
  4. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Teasel is doing better on Lantus. I switched to a human meter a while ago and that altered the spread of colours on his SS. He is seeing more green and is less bouncy on Lantus - feels better too.

    I've never had remission as a goal for Teasel because I learned early on that he was going to be a complicated FD kitty. Like you, I'm hoping for some degree of regulation. I began his Lantus journey following one of the two dosing protocols that are recommended over there, tight regulation (TR). Over time I found that too frequent dose changes made him more erratic plus he would drop very low out of nowhere. I've since created my own routine for him where I let him run a little higher than ideal to leave some room for those unexpected drops. I also didn't want to spend as much time as I knew he would need with testing, steering his BG with snacks, etc. That isn't sustainable in the long term for me. I always say my goal now is to dose him in such a way that he is safe and I keep my sanity. ;)
     
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  5. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Welcome back! Sounds like your vacation was awesome!!!
     
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  6. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Wow! What an incredible summer!!! However did you find such a little kitty heaven?!? I let Sam outside on a leash this summer and I've never seen him so happy. I really wish I could let him out to run and hunt like that!

    Gandalf's numbers are a bit higher than wanted. I would suggest raising the dose and just managing the bounces, but I do understand that it can be exhausting to do that. I wonder if you would prefer Lantus or Levemir? They tend to have a settling effect for bouncy kitties. Although as Kris noted, Teasel can still bounce, even on Lantus.
     
  7. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Good luck with the fat dose! Bouncy kitties seem to like those teeny tiny adjustments :cat::p.
     
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  8. Helena and Gandalf

    Helena and Gandalf Member

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    We got some action last night, and an immediate bounce up to high pink. Sigh!

    My grandparents actually live on this island, there are about 30 people living there permanently. During the summer everybody comes to their vacation homes and then there is like 400 people there. My goal is to be able to move there when I finish my studies in 2 years. When this happens I really hope Gandalf is still with us! :cat:

    As for change of insulin we have discussed trying him on Lantus again. We started out on Lantus Jan 16 and also gave it a go a year ago. We did not fully understand how Lantus worked back then, and feel that with the knowledge we have acquired here the past year it is definitely worth a try. We still have a few Lantus pens left in the fridge. Our plan was to give Prozinc a last go during fall since it was starting to look quite good where we left off in May.
    Seeing how good a bouncy kitty like Teasel is doing on Lantus is definitely inspiring.
     
  9. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Teasel was on Lantus for the first two months after his diagnosis but I got nowhere by following my vet's method of give a dose for a week, do a full curve, change to a new dose for a week, do anther curve, etc. He stayed high and flat and ended up in DKA at the end of March 2016. He was put on ProZinc after that but only starting making some progress after I joined FDMB in August last year. I learned SO MUCH about his responses and saw that he bounced like crazy. I kept working with ProZinc until February of this year when I decided to go back to Lantus knowing what I learned about testing, dosing and Teasel's responses. And here we are now ... in a much better place! :smuggrin:

    Teasel's SS will show you how the progress was slow and shows the difference in his response to ProZinc versus Lantus - even allowing for the meter change that shifted the BG readings downward. It might be worth giving Lantus another go now that you've learned so much.
     
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  10. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Especially as you already have some!
     
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  11. Helena and Gandalf

    Helena and Gandalf Member

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    We have an active cycle! He will probably bounce high tonight. I think we will stick with the F1.6 U for a bit to see if he settles.
    We have little over a month left on our current Prozinc vial, think we might give Lantus a go after that!
     
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  12. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Wow! What a great mid cycle you got! I think dark green is a beautiful color. :D

    I think that's a great plan. Stick with Prozinc for now, see what it does, and during that time, go ahead and do some research on the Lantus. I know you used it before but it couldn't hurt to brush up on the stickies and whatnot before the switch. :)
     
  13. Helena and Gandalf

    Helena and Gandalf Member

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    Uhm, I don't know the carbcontent of broccoli but I hope it wont affect his numbers (but I guess he will bounce anyway so whatever). I thought I had cleaned away everthing he would eat from the counter but apparently not... He got his paws on a large piece and he even growled at me while I tried to take it away from him. :rolleyes: I find this a bit hilarious since broccoli is my absolute favourite food. :joyful: Just read on wikipedia that it has low carbcontent, it is also not toxic to cats in smaller amounts thankfully. This cat drives me crazy sometimes. o_O
    Oh I think we defenitely need to read up on the sticky notes over there before the switch! :bookworm:
     
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  14. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Teasel is very fond of salad greens. I thought cats were true carnivores!? Better broccoli and salad greens than cookies and bread! ;)
     
  15. Helena and Gandalf

    Helena and Gandalf Member

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    Hahaha true! :D
     
  16. Helena and Gandalf

    Helena and Gandalf Member

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    Okay, so defenitely not the high bounce we expected! Only 14.1 mmol/, of course that is because of the broccoli. ;) We absolutely keep with the F1.6U for now.
    Unfortunately Gandalf just licked a pan clean, it contained some butter and honey so we are probably able to have a good nights sleep...
     
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  17. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Maybe the broccoli is a good snack :woot:
     
  18. Helena and Gandalf

    Helena and Gandalf Member

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    Somehow that would not surprise me. We had a similar event last year when he thought it was a good idea to eat chicken curry... He generally had high numbers back then so we were expecting a high number but then he gave us an unusually low number instead. :rolleyes: We googled and found that turmeric (which we had plenty in our curry) has been shown to affect blood sugar in humans. We thought it was so funny! Adding the broccoli to this, there has to be a plant somewhere out there with a substance that can regulate blood sugar, it just has not been found yet! ;)
     
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  19. Yong

    Yong Well-Known Member

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    Actually, there is a couple members who gives tumeric to their kitty for anti inflammatory purposes and arthritis, I believe. I'll double check :). @Bronx's dad @Marvin's Mom - Nat I've tagged them to chime in for you :D
     
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  20. Bronx's dad

    Bronx's dad Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I give Bronx turmeric "golden paste" twice a day as a holistic approach to his joint pain and overall well being. I also take it myself twice a day!
     
  21. Marvin's Mom - Nat

    Marvin's Mom - Nat Well-Known Member

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    Bronx dad gave me the recipe, haven't tried it yet.
     
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  22. Helena and Gandalf

    Helena and Gandalf Member

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    Umm so today Gandalf threw us a curveball... I am currently stalling another 20 min after an 8.7 mmol/l PMPS value followed by 6.8 mmol/l 30 min later. o_O
    We have data and have given him relatively high doses on lower PS before, but not as low as 6.8. We both have to go to university today but in worst case scenario I can skip and stay home, else I will only be gone a few hours. Hoping he will go up a bit otherwise we will have to reduce the dose drastically, I donĀ“t want to skip the dose because he runs very high at furshots, but I think if he keeps going lower we will have to skip. :banghead:
     
  23. Helena and Gandalf

    Helena and Gandalf Member

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    And it is soo cool about the turmeric! :joyful:
     
  24. Helena and Gandalf

    Helena and Gandalf Member

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    Fed and gave 0.5U he was at 7.8. Will keep an eye on him for now, have another 4 hours before I have to leave.
    Scary for us but nice for him to spend some time in lower numbers! We were just planning the next dose increase, maybe he is telling us he like the F1.6. :rolleyes:
     
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  25. Helena and Gandalf

    Helena and Gandalf Member

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    He just gave me a 10.8 +2 after his shot. Was expecting something higher! Fingers crossed he will stay in blue!
     
  26. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Wow! Looks like he hung out in blue for awhile so far!
     
  27. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Very nice! Exciting too! :smuggrin:
     
  28. Helena and Gandalf

    Helena and Gandalf Member

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    It did not last all day unfortunately, but that was as expected. We would probably have gone with 1U if someone had been home all day with him. At least now we have more data to rely on in these situations. :bookworm: His AMPS is looking alright today so hoping for a nice drop!
     
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