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Switching to Prozinc. Wish us luck!

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Dana & Ninja, Jan 25, 2020.

  1. Dana & Ninja

    Dana & Ninja Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2019
    Switching my dear Ninja to Prozinc tomorrow from Vetsulin. Hoping his blood sugars will show more stability. Going to start out with 1 unit. I’m home all day tomorrow so I’ll be able to check him every 2 hours. Any suggestions/advice welcome!
     
  2. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Hi Dana
    There is not anyone around at the moment who uses Prozinc I don’t think, but I will help if I can.
    Have you read the stickies at the top of this page about using Prozinc?
    1 unit sounds like a good dose to start with.

    In the beginning I would not give the insulin if the BG is under 200 for safety. If you are unsure about anything post and ask for assistance. If no one responds you may need to post on the main forum if it is urgent. I will look in as often as I can.

    Good luck with the new insulin:)
     
  3. Dana & Ninja

    Dana & Ninja Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2019
    Yes I did read the stickies. And yes, I don’t give insulin if he is under 200 unless I have time to do the stalling method. Thank you for keeping an eye out , I appreciate it!!
     
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  4. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Make a bold line going across the middle of the SS, combining a few cells, to note the change of insulins

    SWITCHED TO PROZINC 1/26/20

    Dana, it may take a bit to see any change, but you should see the duration increasing. Maybe not from day one of the switch to prozinc, but within the first couple of weeks.

    Looking forward to this change for Ninja. :joyful:

    Hey, anyone that decides to take their cat on a 2 hour road trip so they could visit their sister over the holidays. and take care of Ninja too as he had just started this diabetes journey is an amazing person. That would be you.
     
  5. Dana & Ninja

    Dana & Ninja Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2019
    Done!! I will put my purple patience pants on and buckle up!! I do hope he responds better to this one, fingers crossed!! He deserves it!! If it wasn't for my cats I might not have made it thru my nasty divorce!! He was there for me and now I'm here for him!!! I love you!! Thank you so much for all of your support!! It means a lot to me!!!
     
  6. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    I’m sure you will get better duration with the Prozinc
     
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  7. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2019
    Huzzah for Ninja starting his new insulin. You have a great plan in place, and I'm so glad you'll be able to do more testing when you switch him over. Prozinc has worked great for my Billy. It's not a depot insulin like Lantus, but it lasts much longer than the short acting insulins do. Fingers crossed that it helps Ninja get more stable. And you totally rock for taking such awesome care of Ninja!
     
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  8. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Good luck with the insulin change!
     
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  9. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Just checking in on Ninja with his insulin change to Prozinc.

    Nice curve with Ninja's first day on Prozinc, 1/26/20.

    You don't have to wait to feed with the Prozinc. The proper sequence for dosing Prozinc insulin is: Test/Feed/Shoot. No need to wait the 20-30 minutes like you did with Vetsulin. Vetsulin is a little faster acting, so your cat needed that wait time to start getting some of that food digested and into the bloodstream, to counteract the insulin.

    No wait with Prozinc since it has a slightly later onset than Vetsulin. Prozinc also doesn't drop the BG levels as quickly after the shot. In most cats. ECID.

    That "no waiting to feed" change should make Ninja and your other 2 cats Smokey and Jasper happier too. :smuggrin:
     
  10. Dana & Ninja

    Dana & Ninja Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2019
    I test him, then I feed him. I have been watin

    I have been testing him then I feed right after. I have been waiting 20 to 30 minutes to give the shot. Are you saying I don't have to wait the 20 to 30 minutes to give the shot??
     
  11. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    No need to wait to give the shot of Prozinc. Test, feed, shoot in a short time period is fine.

    No 20-30 minute wait anymore, between feed and shoot.

    I just gained you an extra 20-30 minutes each morning and evening. (NOT really!)
     
  12. Dana & Ninja

    Dana & Ninja Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2019
    LOL, Ok, he's starting to be a little stinker with the shots. He wiggles all around and flinches. Sometimes I fear he is not getting the full dose. Maybe if I give his shot while he is eating it will be better. Thank you!!
     
  13. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Yes, head down in the food bowl is a good opportunity to shoot the insulin, while Ninja is distracted by eating.
     
  14. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Thinking that Ninja may need a bit more insulin. (Thought so yesterday too when I took a quick peek at his SS). Are you ok with upping the dose to 1.25U?

    From the protocol:
    If the cat is in the 250+ mg/dL {13.9+ mmol/L} range at pre shot and does not drop 50% or more for nadir, a small adjustment could be considered, if monitoring is possible. A small adjustment is likely to be 0.25 units per shot.

    p.s. Please change your signature to reflect you are now using Prozinc.
     
  15. Dana & Ninja

    Dana & Ninja Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2019
    Yes, I was thinking the very same thing and was planning on giving him 1.25 tonight!! Thank you so much!! You are certainly my angel on my shoulder!! I appreciate you more than you know!!!
     
  16. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    I'm going to "nag" you on your signature change, to reflect the use of Prozinc now.

    Just like you might "nag" your teenage son about doing something. ;)

    Doing a curve this weekend? If you are, I'd suggest waiting until Sunday 2/1/20 to let this dose increase settle in a bit. More useful in my opinion to wait on the curve.
     
  17. Dana & Ninja

    Dana & Ninja Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2019
    Will do and I don’t mind being nagged. I was thinking that yes I will do a curve on Sunday. Sure hope we can get this figured out!
     
  18. Dana & Ninja

    Dana & Ninja Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2019
    Based on today’s numbers so far I think I will bump him up to 1.5 at PMPS tonight. Would like to see him a bit lower.
     
  19. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
  20. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

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    Jan 31, 2013
    Hi Dana,

    How is it going since the switch to Prozinc?
     
  21. Dana & Ninja

    Dana & Ninja Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2019
    We are doing good. I think. Lol. Settled into a routine. He is not fighting me on the injections anymore. He seems happy, his fur shines, he plays, he has gained his weight back. I did bump up his dose today to 1.75 as I think we he could be just a bit better with his numbers. I’m home for the next e days so I can monitor him. Thank you fo checking in with us!!❤️
     
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  22. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Hi Dana,

    I know that you head off to work pretty early every day.
    Any way you can regularly get a test after the pre-shot AM test?
    Maybe a test when you get back home from work, for late in the AM cycle?

    To help "flesh out" Ninja's SS.

    You've been doing a good job to consistently keep getting that +3 every night (PM) cycle.
    Sometimes when you get a +4 instead, the BG's look even better at that time of night.
    So you might want to consider swapping back and forth between a +3 one night, +4 another night.

    When using Prozinc, the pre-shot numbers stay higher than the mid-cycle numbers.
    Those pre-shots will stay higher until the mid-cycle numbers get consistently lower.
    The pre-shot BG levels are the last to return to lower numbers.

    It's one reason mid-cycle testing is important.
     
  23. Dana & Ninja

    Dana & Ninja Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2019
    I can get a reading when I get home. And will try alternating +3 and +4 at night. I’m not sure bumping his dose up today was a good idea based on his numbers so far. What do you think?
     
  24. Dana & Ninja

    Dana & Ninja Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2019
    Cuddling with mama. ❤️
     

    Attached Files:

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  25. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Actually, you want to see numbers in the high greens like that at mid-cycle. Perfect.

    Those are "healing numbers" to give the pancreas time to heal and start producing insulin on it's own.
    When you get nice high greens like that, it's giving Ninja's own body time to heal.
    That was actually a nice flatter curve, until he zoomed right back up into the yellow ranges at PMPS.

    I see from your SS notes that you did feed a bit at the +6 and again at +10.
    When you are able to do that, leave some food for Ninja to eat, he'll likely realize his BG levels are low and seek out food.

    What you did there with the food at +6 and +10, is what we call "feeding the curve". Keeps the BG levels more even, like we want to see them. He was nice and steady today.

    Now tonight, he may "bounce" because his body is not used to those green numbers.
     
  26. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Ninja, lap kitty extraordinaire.
     
  27. Dana & Ninja

    Dana & Ninja Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2019

    So I’m a bit confused, guess cuz I’m not used to him being that low. I do have food out all day until 2 hours before PMPS. But when he got those greens I panicked and put food in front of him and he ate. Should I not have done that? What about that 76? That scared me. Should I have just left him alone? Should I have given him the 1.75 at PMPS instead of the 1.5? I’ll check him a couple times tonight. What dose should I do in the morning? Darn it. I thought I was getting the idea of this, not so much I guess. Thank you!
     
  28. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2019
    Dana, strangely enough, I tested Butters, my non-diabetic cat today, just to see if his BGL were in a good range. His reading was low 70s. Perfectly normal! Green numbers are a good thing. The only numbers you really want to watch out for are under 50, that can be a sign of a hypo event and requires monitoring and feeding. Between 50 and 100 (on a human meter) is awesome numbers! Sure, if you see Ninja dipping under 60, you might want to test him in an hour or so and make sure he doesn't dip under 50, but you are aiming for the greens and very low blues.

    Take a look at Billy's spreadsheet. We got lucky, and he's in remission. You can see what some green numbers look like. That's the goal, you just aren't used to seeing them yet. But there's nothing wrong with feeding Ninja any time you are worried. Just don't overdo it, or he'll get fat like my Billy!
     
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  29. Dana & Ninja

    Dana & Ninja Member

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    Dec 15, 2019
    Ok. Thank you!! I thought anything under 80 was bad. Thank you thank you!! So I will give 1.75 tomorrow morning then?

    I’d be surprised if he gets fat. He’s never been overweight in his whole life!! Even with the past 12 years being free fed. Now my other two..,little chubbos!! Hoping the new diet change will help them shed some pounds!!
     
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  30. Juls and Billy

    Juls and Billy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2019
    I'm not a dosing expert, but yes, I think you would have been fine to give the 1.75, and I think you can in the morning, assuming his BGL is high enough to shoot. (Should be, you might get a little bounce from those lovely greens, as Deb mentioned.) Don't fret about doing the 1.5 though. If you are unsure, it's always better to be safe than sorry.
     
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  31. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    To get a cat into remission, diet controlled status, you do have to get Ninja's blood glucose numbers into the low blues <150 and then the higher greens (60-99) colored ranges. (SS color coding shows you what these are.)

    It's usually the mid-cycle numbers that come down first. Then the AMPS and PMPS BG levels.
    Yes, 1.75U should have been ok last night. Hind sight is great, you almost need eyes in the back of your head sometimes to understand what would have worked.

    Exactly Juls. You may not be an "expert", but you provide good guidance. None of us are "experts" here.

    Most of the following is in the hypo instructions, which hopefully you printed out, read, understood and keep with your hypo kit.
    If you get a BG <50, scream for help over on the Feline Health (Welcome & Main) forum.
    Put the 911 prefix on your post and people will see that and come to help.
    Once someone responds, you can edit the title and take the 911 off.
    Let people know it's the first time your cat has had such low numbers.
    Feed a tiny bit of regular food to bring the numbers up.
    Test again after feeding that little bit of food, in about 20 minutes.
    Depending on when the <50 occurred in the 12 hour dosing cycle, determines how much time you may need to spend bringing the BG readings back up to a safer level.
    "Rinse and repeat" the food, 20 minutes later test steps until the BG's are rising for at least 2 consecutive BG tests.

    Simple sugars like honey or corn syrup or pancake syrup bring numbers up quickly, but they wear off fast too. That is why a little bit of regular food is best, because the effects of food last longer than the sugars.
    If the numbers keep going down even after a bit of food, then it may be time to break into your hypo kit and pull out one of these medium carb foods. Like Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers. Squeeze out the gravy from the can and give your cat about 1 to 2 teaspoons of only the gravy. Most cats will lick that up eagerly.

    You can also add a small (think the size of a corn kernel) size drop of that simple sugar to the regular low carb pate food, to increase the carb level.

    We take low BG readings seriously and most people on-line here are able to guide you through the feeding and testing required to bring those BG readings back up to a safe level.

    No harm in feeding Ninja a bit when you saw those low (non-diabetic normal) BG readings yesterday AM cycle.
    The dry food will keep the BG readings a bit higher too. Can take 3 days for the dry food to pass through a cat's digestive system.

    p.s. Are you still feeding the dry Glycobalance regularly, or was that only because you got worried about Ninja's BG readings? Thought you had switched to Dr. Elsey's chicken flavor?
     
  32. Dana & Ninja

    Dana & Ninja Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2019
    I free feed Young Again Zero Mature between the FF feast meals. I pick up all the food 2 hours before the PS times. I only gave the glycobalance that one time when I thought he was too low, now I know he wasn’t. I don’t think he eats much of the dry during the day but he has gained back his weight and “looks” much better. I, watching him today but not checking as often. Want to give his little ears a break. Do you think it is ok to continue the 1.75 tomorrow? I go back to work tomorrow. The pic I posted I just now took. He looks much better. Doesn’t have that “sick” look I was so worried about.
     

    Attached Files:

  33. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Bet you anything Ninja is bouncing from the low greens on 2/15/20 AM cycle.

    Bounces usually take 3-6 cycles to clear.
    As long as you leave some food out for Ninja while you are away at work, he is likely to go seek food when his BG levels run low. The Young Again Zero Mature is fine to leave out between main meals.

    As long as Jasper and Smokey don't gobble it all up first, of course.;)
     
  34. Dana & Ninja

    Dana & Ninja Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2019
    There’s always food in the bowl when I get home. I leave out a fair amount because I want Ninja to be to get it if he wants it. He’s always been my grazer thru the day and watches his weight. He’s the only cat I’ve ever had that has NEVER been overweight. The other two are chubbos!! Lol!!
     
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