Tabby 3/1 - Prozinc

amps 187 2.8u
+2 233


I can't believe he kept dropping after the lower dose and the +3 number I got. But with this new insulin I am in unchartered waters so I gave 2.8u. That's more Idexx than I would of given but I am giving more Prozinc than I was Idexx. I can get a +2 1/2 spot check and I can get my husband to get a check when he wakes up. He worked until midnight. I hope he wakes up by 10:30am. I hope he doesn't go too low. This is a higher dose than I would give but he seems to need more. I think he was still dropping when I gave him his pmps lastnight. I will see how he's doing at the +2 1/2. Wish I could be home to monitor. I know this is a much lower dose but I am not going to chance it and I am still taking a chance on this dose. I would of rather gave him 2u and felt safe and delt with the 400 pmps number. I am trying to get him into better numbers. Well I will have more data to make my future decisions on. Hopefully he won't drop too low. I can get my husband to feed him if I need to and my husband knows how to test Tabby. Problem is he won't be up until later. I will leave a giant not on the table to test Tabby right away and text me at work. I don't cae if he goes up just don't want anything to happen to him. Don't want him dropping at +2 1/2. If he does I may feed him. I would rather be safe than sorry. Getting a lot of overlap and he's doing the late day drop. He's a sneaky little guy.

 

Alice, reading your posts is like experiencing my daily FD adventures over here..My DH upped dosage yesterday and my poor SugarKitty finally made progress, to the point of BG 43 at +6...So, yes, finally Day 14 and results, but sheesh, scared the **** out of me...I think you should be ok, you aren't spazzing on the doses, and your numbers look pretty darn good...Keep it up, and keep us posted, I need the help and support!

 

amps 187 2.8u
+2 233
+6 268

Don't have a clue what he will give me at ps time. He likes to surprise me. My husband did get me a +6 though so I am happy about that.

 

Looking better, no wild swings for you, for now...Paws crossed for you!

 

Alice - I feel ya! We're also trying so hard to get regulated on ProZinc. The one thing I've learned is that very little difference in dosage seems to make a huge difference (at least compared to previous insulins.) I'm keeping fingers crossed for you over here

 

Wow Hope. I've been preaching the same thing [about small changes] - good to hear you have the same impression. Now I *think* I know I'm not crazy - or am I? hmmmm. lol

 

I'm with you Gator. Our vet changes our dosage by units and every time we've changed by a full unit, numbers have gone wonky. At this point, I'm just running my own numbers and adjusting as the #'s seem to need. It's a new insulin for them too, so I'll be giving the vet the lowdown on what I've seen with it as well. I definitely don't see the 2 hour **whoa!!** drops that I used to see with Vetsulin, so it seems it processes more gently. Time will tell

Still doing some mid-day shots because she loses her get up and go when she holds solidly in the 400's, but I am hoping to get back to BID eventually.

 

That's 'cause that's what they are taught to do... they are also taught to dose based on weight for the 1st dose. The materials that ProZinc give to the vet also discuss this so the continuing-ed is wonky. Just sayin'. So, talk to your vet. Hopefully (s)he will listen to you and the next patient will benefit from your wisdom!

 

I bet most vets don't give their clients the option of home testing. As you are aware, if one home tests then it completely changes the picture. From the little vet book reading I did one of the primary methods of evaluating DM discussed was using fructosamine tests. One of the primary reasons advocated for this in one vet book I read was to verify the client's "compliance." Of course, not all clients are capable or willing to home test either. But boy, when I saw H in hyperglycemic distress, I couldn't take it and started home testing against that current vets wishes.

So those "large" changes are probably more suitable to other means of evaluating DM than home testing.

Sorry to hijack the topic but,
Hehe, another 'funny' story was that the vet [a very highly accomplished one at a certain University - not the endocrinologist] who didn't want us home testing wanted to use "clinical signs" as one of the primary methods of treating/dosing the DM. Of course the primary clinical signs are PU/PD. So I read up in the vet books on how much a normal cat should drink and pee down the the ml. Hehe, so I weighed everything he drank and peed several times per week [down to the gram] and delivered comprehensive reports to this dude [complete with executive summaries]. LOL he didn't like that very much and got all huffy with me and said "WELL, we've just NEVER seen anything like this before!" LOL. I think I'm one of those "problem" clients. I do occasionally email updates on our [amazing if I say so myself] progress to that vet and I never hear anything back. But I'm with you Michele, at least try to take the horse to water.

 

There are vets out there who want to learn. Really.

I think that it is silly for any vet to be *against* testing. I would have done cartwheels if a client had been willing to home test. I only ever had one. I had to rely on fructosamine tests. The WORST was when client would swear up and down that they were giving insulin. But, the fructosamine would be off. Then, you take the cat in for a curve, give the dose the client swore they were giving, and cause a hypo. So, you'd have to start over... new dose perscribed. Send cat home for the client to only *occasionally* give it. Talk about frustrating.... :roll:

 

Crazy people never think they are crazy, Gator...

 

amps 187 2.8u
+2 233
+6 268
pmps 357 3.6u

Not as bad as I thought it would be. Now I know I can try 3u on a number like 187. Just more info for me to use. Now, about you thread hijackers...LOL I am just happy we are getting some good dialog going with all the prozinc users. This is a new insulin and the more we know about it the better. I don't care if it's on my thread as long as we are making progress.
I really don't want to make any changes less than .2u. I switched to u100 syringes so I could make changes that small.Don't see myself doing .1u. I really want to make this work using the .2u changes and do the best I can for Tabby that way. I hope you all can accept that. We will have to make it work the best we can.

 

Yes, I forgot to add "not willing or able to give a darn insulin shot every 12h" to "not all clients are capable or willing to home test either."

In one of the studies on ProZinc I think it mentions that at least one of the cats was euthanized due to the owners unwillingness to continue with therapy... sad.

 

Sane people never think they are crazy either.

 

Alice - sounds like you are on the right track. I've been watching for new numbers from you today as I'm having the crazy numbers with Aria as well. I'm trying to watch the ProZinc threads to see if I can glean any baseline info.

I've got all good thoughts coming up the coast to you and Tabby. :RAHCAT

 

Good point. FTR, I don't think you are crazy, although that part about you weighing H's pee made me totally crack up. I can just picture the look on the guy's face when presented with in-depth urine reports...priceless!

 

I had a client who used to chart her (normal!!!) cat's bathroom visits. So, at each annual exam, I would be presented with a very detailed (color, consistency, size) notebook regarding cat poop. a year's worth. If (heaven forbid) the cat didn't poop on its regular schedule, I would get frantic phone calls (day or night). Clearly, this woman loved her cat, but repeat after me: OCD.

With that said, I would have LOVED a detailed report of PU/PD in a diabetic cat. Maybe not a yrs worth...

 

I'm afraid to say I also reported the weight of the poop... :mrgreen: BUT only, but in my defense - hear me out!!! I had to weigh the whole litter box first then weigh the litter box without the poop to then be able to know the amount of liquid in the box [of course I also had to know the weight of the whole box before anything was in it]. So I did know the weight of the poop already. And I did not want to hear yet another lame excuse that somehow I had missed the liquid content of his poops. But the poop wasn't the issue it was the PU/PD and the fact that I'm 20 million times more stubborn and determined than that dude ... and I relish the opportunity to give a little dose of reality to folks who think they want some of this. LOL. And this did not carry on too long - and PU/PD WAS supposedly what he was basing his assessment of H's progress on. After having H crazy hyperdiabetic for a couple months and having given that dude a chance at it [even with the PU/PD down the the gram and noted the appropriate amount with reference to the vet text it came from], I pulled the plug and went at it my own. This guy was a really smart and very accomplished vet - I bet he knew how much a cat should pee and drink. The message was, "I know that you know better [or at least you should know better] and I know better too."

It wasn't so funny at the time but looking back on it it is quite hilarious in many respects. I was just telling the story to a friend and cracking up about it.

IMHO, some people take their 'poop' a little to seriously [literally and figuratively :mrgreen: ]. Maybe that client had some sort of mentally scarring episode as a child concerning poop? You never know.

 

ROFLMAO :lol:

Ok Gator. You've just given me something to tell my DH that will *convince* him that my middle of the night, walking into walls, chasing down the cat to get BG tests is not a sign of total insanity. And a smile to end the day

 

I think GAtor needs his own thread tomorrow. Too much pee and poop talk.LOL

 

OK... on the surface that *is* a bit strange. However, the big difference here is that THERE WAS SOMETHING CLINICALLY WRONG WITH YOUR CAT. You weren't just weighing poop for grins and giggles.

I should have known what I was in for when the practice owner punted her to me and said with a grin: "you're gonna loooove this one." I must admit though, she was a very nice lady and oh-so-compliant. And, she just loved the fact that I would look at her book and make comments like: "oh- Buffy had a big bowel movement the second tuesday in september;" and "did Buffy act out-of-sorts on the third wednesday in april when he went a whole 12 hours without a movement?" ohmygod_smile

So, Gator, how much *does* H's poop weigh? :lol:

 

Walking into walls, middle of the night, Moi??? But, of course, then add to it, forgetting to grab the eyeglasses at that CRITICAL MOMENT! Someone up there likes us!

 

You can see the chart here [the "output" sheet]:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key ... HR0NUNReXc
The time series gadgets are fun. There are also some food #s in there that J&B do not have on their list.

H's weight is the thing I'm the most proud of - it's been a struggle.

One of the things I don't like about the FDMB spreadsheet system is the inability to plot time series data but I did our ProZinc in it so that folks could have something familiar to look at.