Tabby diagnosed with diabetes worried and scared

Discussion in 'Welcome to the Group - Post an Introduction Here' started by Matt & Tabby, Aug 20, 2015.

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  1. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

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    Aug 20, 2015
    Tabby has been in my life for 6 years now and just became diabetic. She is a tabby and yes I named her tabby just went with my feelings on the name so don't laugh. We are in are first week of shots and blood monitoring from home. Vet clocked her at 500 bg with lab work. So far he lowest home reading has been 321. . We had her at 1 unit on prozinc. Just bump up to two yesterday and no big change in numbers besides the 321 I took at the 6 hour peek. She was hiding alot and drinking slot and eatting more then normal. She has been more social lately but numbers are still high. This is frustrating for the both of us. Wondering how to get here numbers down safely and effectively. Vet keeps telling me it takes a while for the new dose to work in. Been giving shots above her shoulders with the tent aproach as I guesd they call it. Any help and support would be great in this journey to submission I am hoping for.
     
  2. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    Tabby has been in my life for 6 years now and just became diabetic. She is a tabby and yes I named her tabby just went with my feelings on the name so don't laugh. We are in are first week of shots and blood monitoring from home. Vet clocked her at 500 bg with lab work. So far he lowest home reading has been 321. . We had her at 1 unit on prozinc. Just bump up to two yesterday and no big change in numbers besides the 321 I took at the 6 hour peek. She was hiding alot and drinking slot and eatting more then normal. She has been more social lately but numbers are still high. This is frustrating for the both of us. Wondering how to get here numbers down safely and effectively. Vet keeps telling me it takes a while for the new dose to work in. Been giving shots above her shoulders with the tent aproach as I guesd they call it. Any help and support would be great in this journey to submission I am hoping for.
     
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  3. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

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    Aug 16, 2015
    Welcome Matt and Tabby. I'm new here too and it can be a bit overwhelming at times! One thing I've learned is that it takes time to regulate. Are you home testing? What meter are you using? Also what food are you feeding. I found a lot of improvement in Colin by changing what and how I fed him. He's on Fancy Feast Pate-a low carb canned food and no dry food at all. He's hungry all the time, poor baby, but everyone tells me that'll get better when he gets regulated. Can you set up a spreadsheet for Tabby? That way people with a lot more experience than me can help you better. There are instructions how to do that in the forums and if you need help ask and someone will help you. BTW I love the name. Had a 'Tabby' once myself and he was the best cat!
     
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  4. Tucker&Me

    Tucker&Me Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2015
    Hello Matt! WELCOME to you and Tabby. Don't worry Matt, things will begin to improve immensely if you stick around here!! There is an excellent chance of remission! The experience and dedication by veteran members here will simply amaze you.
    If you have looked around, I'm sure you have seen that we like completed profiles :)..if you could add some pertinent details about Tabby that would be great. In order for folks to assist, we need to SEE your blood glucose values, in a spreadsheet like this.
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...te-a-ss-and-link-it-in-your-signature.130337/
    Ask for help if you need it, Matt ANYTIME, about ANYTHING. Ask alot of questions!! We've all been where you are.
    May I ask what, how much, and when do you feed?
    I'm sure you're ngoing to get plenty of responses, so this post is my contribution for now!
    Stick around, you'll never regret a minute.;):):cat:
     
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  5. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

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    Aug 20, 2015


    I home test her. I wanted to know real time numbers of what is going on not taking her to the vet all the time I work alot so I'm only home in the mornings and late evenings . Makes things hard. I bought a relion prime for my tester . Walmart brand. I talk to the pharmacist that seems very nice and helpful and told me other have been in there looking amd asking same questions as a tester goes. I prick her ears to get blood. Right now she is on hills dry food. I purchase that from pets supplies plus. I live in ohio and that's the closest store to me. The prescription stuff cost alot and honestly just in the dark on information . I lies be her food out as I always did since I had her. She pretty much nibbles throughout the day sloth now it seems she is going to the food bowl more often now. I would love to get her on a better diet. Thinking that would help with her numbers. Also found a company online that sells an herbal mix u drop on there food to help with diabetes support. I forgot the company as I will have to look that up.
     
  6. Tucker&Me

    Tucker&Me Member

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    Jun 24, 2015
    PS Matt, I didn't set up my own SPREADSHEET, just so ya know! Someone can and will set it up for you, all you need to do is ask.
     
  7. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

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    Aug 16, 2015
    The Hills dry food is high in carbs and is expensive. You need a low carb food. I use the Fancy Feast pate, but there are other canned foods that are just as good. Go to
    catinfo.org to see a list. I see you're using Pro Zinc, so am I. You may want to post on that forum as well. There are many people there knowledgable in it's use. Good luck and keep us posted!
     
  8. Tucker&Me

    Tucker&Me Member

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    Jun 24, 2015
    Sounds good, but don't waste your $$. Insulin is the only thing that can regulate her.
    The dry food is definitely a problem. And most likely the reason you're seeing such high values. We have an excellent food chart, I'll try to find and attach. But it is there for the reading under the newbie stickies, that say 'Start here'.
    Fancy Feast Classics are fed by many members here! It's available and cheap. Most of the classic flavors are under 8 carbs, which is suggested. The food switch alone can drop your kitty's levels by up to 100..you must be careful and be home testing when you switch!
    I'll locate the food list, if someone doesn't post it for you soon, OK?
     
  9. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Welcome Matt and Tabby,

    The protocol we put together for ProZinc is in my signature, in blue.

    Tabby's numbers are probably higher because of the Hills dry food. It runs in the 30% range. We suggest 8%. A vet explains why wet low carb food is best on this website: www.catinfo.org If you switch, it would be best to do it on a weekend when you can monitor carefully. Our Oliver dropped 100 points when we switched from dry to wet.
     
  10. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

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    Aug 20, 2015
    Yea I'm clueless on spread sheets and limited with my Internet access as well. Any help would be great. My gf lives an hour from me so I go there on the weekends and just started taking tabby with me as she can not be left alone now. .. are there any dry foods that are low in carb or must u feed tabby canned foods for now on and is it ok to let her graze throughout the day as I'm not home during the day to administer food for lunch to her or what not.
     
  11. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    There are some lower carb dry foods, but wet is much better. It helps with dehydration. Check out the website to see why it is the best food for diabetics. You can leave it out for her to eat during the day. I freeze mine in a silicone cupcake pan; a can of Fancy Feast fits perfectly. Then it can thaw and they can eat it over several hours.

    I can help set you up with a spreadsheet. I need an email address and you don't want to put it out on the forum. Check your private conversations at the top of the page.
     
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  12. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

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    Aug 20, 2015
    Sounds great. She tested at 412 this morning and was at 332 last night before her shot. I heard her going to the food bowl last night and this morning when I woke up the food was empty. My guess is she ate alot probably to much. Seems her apitite has gone up. A food chart woukd be great. She has alway been a grazer. I have always left her food out for her to eat on all day she use to just nibble. Thinking I may need to change that or administer food in the morning before work and when I come home from work I guess. I don't know. Makes me frustrated seeing her go through this. :-(
     
  13. CarolynE

    CarolynE Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2015
    Hi Matt, and welcome.
    I started the journey about three weeks ago, and the support from people here has been amazing.
    I still remember how scary and overwhelming everything seemed. It's hard to believe how far I've come since then, and FDMB is a big part of how I've coped.

    I have three cats, and they are all grazers. This can actually be a really good thing for a diabetic cat, as long as you don't put down too much food so they overeat. When Tabby starts seeing lower numbers, an instinct that gets her too eat so she doesn't go too low is a GOOD THING. My Martian's numbers have gone down dramatically in a short period of time (this is not a typical response, so don't be worried that Tabby's haven't, it can take a month or two), so I'm really glad he will go and eat when he feels hungry.

    I used to feed my lot a combination of wet and dry food, and I phased the dry food out before Martian started on insulin. They get fed twice a day. I leave wet food down for them while I'm at work and overnight, and they graze just the same as they did on the dry food. I often add a little water to the wet food, which helps keep it moist, as well as putting more moisture into their diets. They've pretty much stopped drinking water since I changed the diet over. You could also look into purchasing a timed auto feeder (some info here http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/7-1-peyton-ambg-4-64-otj-trial-day-8.121121/#p1262140).

    If Tabby isn't used to eating wet food, you'll probably need to make the transition pretty slowly. There are tips on how to do this on the http://www.catinfo.org/ website. And you will have to monitor closely to see how it affects her Blood Glucose numbers (you don't want her to drop too far, too fast).

    I second the recommendation to join the ProZinc forum. The people there have experience with the same type of insulin as you, and can guide you in how to manage things like food, dosage, BG highs and lows, etc. Most importantly they can provide moral support when things get tough, and help celebrate when things go well. I'm in the Lantus/Levemir forum and people there have been great.

    Good luck!
     
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  14. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

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    Oct 6, 2010
    Insulin is a hormone which allows glucose to enter the cells and be used for fuel. Without enough insulin, there's less fuel, more hunger, and less activity.
    Fat breakdown happens which creates ketones to be used for fuel. Too many ketones may turn the body acidic, resulting in a condition called diabetic ketoacidosis, which is potentially fatal and very expensive to treat. That is why we recommend testing for urine ketones.

    See my signature link Secondary Monitoring Tools for other assessments you may make to evaluate how she is doing - she's more than a glucose number.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2015
  15. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

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    Aug 20, 2015
    I HAVE TESTED FOR KEYTONES WITH STRIPES I BOUGHT FROM WALMART. SHE IS NEGATIVE SO FAR. MY VET SAYS TO GIVE HER TIME ON THE INSULIN PROZINC AND DO NOT ADJUST DIET YET WHICH SHE IS ON HILLS DRY FOOD RIGHT NOW. I FIND THIS TO BE FRUSTRATING AS SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE HERE SOON HAVE BEEN DOING 2 UNIT IN THE AM AND AND 2 UNITS IN EVENING. THIS MORNING AROUND 5:45 AM SHE TESTED AT 412 HIGHEST I HAVE SEEN ON HOME TESTING. MAKING ME THINK THIS VET DOESNT REALLY CAR OR TO BUSY TO CARE
     
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  16. CarolynE

    CarolynE Member

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    Jul 21, 2015
    This is a common theme here.
    There are so many reasons vets recommend the "prescription" foods. Some don't know much about feline nutrition, some have bought into the prescription food company hype, some are playing it safe by sticking with what's familiar. It doesn't mean they don't care about Tabby. They could also have a genuine concern that you can't monitor enough to keep her safe while changing the food over, because it will affect her BGL.

    I had a similar discussion with my vet. My recommendation: Stick with what you know for now. Do your research - which food would you like to switch to, and why (protein/carb levels, cost, variety of flavours). Make a transition plan, including how quickly you plan to change from one food to the other and how you are going to monitor Tabby's BGL during the transition. Write it all down so you don't get mixed up when you're having the discussion (maybe email it to your vet so they can have a look before you meet).

    Ultimately, you are Tabby's carer and you get to make the decisions. People here will support you whatever you decide.
     
  17. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Matt and your beautiful girl, Tabby. :)

    Can you let us know which variety of Hill's dry food? w/d or m/d?


    Mogs
    .
     
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  18. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Welcome. It is goot that yo are home testing BG. What meter are you using? Most of use here record the BGs and other info in a spreadsheet that can be viewed by other. Tio create the SS see:
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...te-a-ss-and-link-it-in-your-signature.130337/
    What are you feeding? A low-carb food is best and those are all canned. There is no reason for a prescription food from your vet. Here is listing of low-carb, commercial canned food.
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/shortcut-shopping-list-all-8-or-less-updated.117688/
     
  19. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

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    Aug 20, 2015
    Here is a pic of my blood readings we seem to be climbing and I don't know why.. I'm all ears
     

    Attached Files:

  20. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

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    Aug 20, 2015

    Using a relion prime meter
     
  21. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

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    Aug 16, 2015
    Are you testing before or after feeding?
     
  22. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

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    Aug 20, 2015
    Her food is akways out so she eats when she is hungry.. she grazes.. maybe that's the problem. . She is still on dry food. Vet keeps telling me to hold off on switching. Honestly um ready to makes some moves here regardless what she is saying.
     
  23. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2015
    If and when you decide to switch to a low carb canned food, be sure to test her BG Before you inject insulin. You really need to start a spread sheet. Others can help you with that if you need them to. Have you started a thread on the Pro Zinc forum? People there know a lot about that particular insulin and how it works. They'll be glad to help
     
  24. Tucker&Me

    Tucker&Me Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2015
    Oh wow Matt! Tabby is a tortie! She's really beautiful!
    Did you respond to @Sue and Oliver (GA) yet? Let her help you with your spreadsheet! You can even access on your phone, since you have limited internet access. (I KNOW you have a smartphone)
    Listen, you are getting super advice from some veterans here right now, people I learned from! I can't add alot, but I will say this.
    I've heard that some kitties are die hard dry food addicts. I thought mine would be too, when I decided to make the switch for them all, after Tucker was diagnosed :nailbiting: But they all transitioned very well, in a short time to Fancy Feast! I had to use a 1/4 tablet of Pepcid AC a time or two, for one of them. That's it!
    Be sure and take Sue, and CarolynE's advice about visiting this site
    http://www.catinfo.org
    You are doing GREAT so far by home testing already, and seeking further knowledge about this crappy disease.
    Of course it is affecting you watching Tabby in her distress!! And it will continue to be up and down, BUT we are all here for each other! You'll be able to crack a few jokes about it all, believe it or not.
    I wasn't a forum person - but I sure am now!!
    We're very glad to have you and your sweet Tabby-girl!
     
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  25. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

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    Aug 20, 2015
    IL
    I have no idea how to use the spread sheet. Someone sent it to me and looks like a foreign language to me lol.. been so busy at work today makes it hard. Worrying and working is killing me today
     
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  26. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

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    Aug 16, 2015
    It took me awhile to learn to use it too. Did Sue set it up for you? She did mine and I had to ask some very stupid questions, but she was very patient and answered them all. You need to take the food away from Tabby 2 hours before you test, then feed then shoot. Then if you can, test every few hours to find her nadir-lowest BG reading. I know how you feel about having to leave them. It has actually made me sick some days. Fortunately I'm self employed and can run home every once and awhile to check.
     
  27. Tucker&Me

    Tucker&Me Member

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    Jun 24, 2015
    @BJM
    BJ can you attach your instructions for SS for Matt?
    He's riding the struggle bus today! :banghead:
     
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  28. Tucker&Me

    Tucker&Me Member

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    Jun 24, 2015
    Matt, I had crazy values too because I was WEAK and fed within that 2 hr window, pre shot!
    Improved immensely when I realized, and stuck to the "2 hr no feed" window.
    I had to man up. Lol
     
  29. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

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    Aug 20, 2015
    So should I only feel her before I shoot and not leave the food out to graze on? She's on dry food thinking I may add some wet into the mix and go slow to see what numbers I get... when should I do my meter tests on her. I have been doing them in the morning before her shot then at noon when I come home from lunch when I can and then I test in evening when I come home before her second shot
     
  30. Sharon14

    Sharon14 Well-Known Member

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    Aug 16, 2015
    I think some people let their cats graze, but you need to take all food away 2hours BEFORE you test. Then you can feed and give the appropriate dose of insulin.
     
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  31. Tucker&Me

    Tucker&Me Member

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    Jun 24, 2015
    Test pre-shot without fail. You have to know if it's SAFE to give the insulin. Right?
    And. When you're going to test ( pre shot, for now)
    No food for 2 hrs prior.

    Anytime you choose to test, you must observe the 2 hr no food window.
    Pre shot is a must.
     
  32. Tucker&Me

    Tucker&Me Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2015
    Yes, if you do that Matt you'll definitely want to be testing to see where her levels go.And you will need some help here during that. We'll get ya the spreadsheet instructions,you'll see..not hard. No math required!
    Over the weekend, or whenever you have enough time to dedicate..you can try testing her a bit more often, so that you can find her nadir. ( when the insulin takes her the lowest) Read up a little ( in yer spare time lol) on the ProZinc Sue linked you to. So you know a bit about your insulin. OK?
     
  33. Tucker&Me

    Tucker&Me Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2015
    Matt
    Sorry for all the posts! I realize you're at work.
    Until @BJM can shoot the instructions... You could take a look at mine, or anyone's in their profile.
    It's Tucker's SS. Just click on it.
    AMPS = A.M. PreShot ( your test result prior to shot)
    PMPS = P.M. PreShot

    The +1, +2 etc..are the hours past the shot time
    I.e. If you shoot at 6 am then 7 am is +1, and so forth
    Enter your values, always click the arrow when done.
    I'm probably leaving out something.
    See what you think.
     
  34. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

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    Aug 20, 2015
    Vet returned my phone call finally .Just got off phone with vet. She said she is not concerned of her higher levels yet amd says to watch her moods and switch to a prescription dry food and still come in for our follow up on Friday the 28th. What she says makes no sense from what u guys are experiencing first hand on here. . I feel like it's gonna be trial and error and being ballsy and tring thongs on my own to see what results will happen. I will try to get spread sheet up this weekend if I can figure it out. Vet said pricking her ear everyday can cause a sore ear. I was like well how else are we suppose to check levels. My question is I guess. What high high levels are bad. Vet rather her be high then low right now. Gonna clear my head here for a bit. Thanks everyone helping me and chiming in. Nice to feel not so lonely on the journey . Will keep u posted with outcomes tomorrow. If anyone wants to give me a call there welcome to as well.. as I'm off this weekend
     
  35. Bojangles' Mom

    Bojangles' Mom Member

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    Jul 30, 2015
    Bojangles and I (Marcy) are three weeks in. She's responding well to insulin, though she's on Lantus. Her numbers were in the 300s to start, but by week 2 were in the 200s and this week have been mostly in the 100s, we've been very fortunate - I wish the same for you. The post from Tucker & Me above explains the spreadsheet pretty well. Bojangles numbers improved once I removed the dry food (this includes the prescription dry). She's been eating Fancy Feast & Friskies pate as recommended here. Canned prescription food was $$$ and she didn't like it - I returned it to the vet. At the vets her numbers showed high 500 & 600s. Much better numbers testing at home when she's less stressed.

    She is fine with the ear pricks. Note, a baby sock filled with rice and warmed in the microwave (for us about 15 seconds, but try it on yourself first so you can let it cool off if necessary) and held against her ear helps. Also vaseline or neosporin, a small strip, spread along the edge of the ear helps the blood to bead up instead of spread into the fur. It still sometimes takes us 3 or more attempts before we get a bead of blood, but she doesn't react and it's for her health so we have to do it.

    Bojangles grazes/free feeds all day long - half a can out in the morning, half a can out in the evening/overnight and her numbers are still improving.
     
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  36. Bojangles' Mom

    Bojangles' Mom Member

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    Jul 30, 2015
    PS - Make sure to avoid the foods with gravy/sauce if possible - the board members here agree those are bad and will spike the sugar with the carbs.

    Bonito flakes & freeeze dried salmon treats sprinkled on the food sometimes help to encourage Bobo to eat...someone else mentioned parmesan like you might sprinkle on spaghetti, but Bobo didn't care for that.
     
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  37. Bojangles' Mom

    Bojangles' Mom Member

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    Jul 30, 2015
    Feel free to check out Bojangles sheet as well - just click on the blue text "Bojangles' Spreadsheet" in my signature line. We aren't able to test as much as some do as I'm away from the house work days 6:30-5. We do the curves (checking her sugar with ear pricks) on the weekends and my vet has me check every 2 hours for a 12 hour period - AM Pre-Shot (AMPS), 2 hours later (+2), 4 hours later (+4), 6 hours later (+6) and so on through the PM Pre-shot (PMPS). Others on here are able to test more frequently. We're mostly moving to .5 unit 2x daily because her numbers have been lower - this is by my vet's recommendation.
     
  38. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

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    Aug 20, 2015
    Yea that's my problem is having tine to do a 12 hour check. So you check every 2 hours? So if I do an ear test every 2 hours for 12 hours and record it all down on the sheet with the 2 unit does twice a day what will this information tell me. Sorry I'm clueless on this stuff why I'm in sales lol...
     
  39. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    The series of tests every 2 hours from preshot to next preshot test provides you with a curve that shows:

    1. The lowest point in that cycle (a.k.a. the nadir) - you need to make sure that the dose doesn't take Tabby too low.

    2. The length of time the insulin dose is effective in lowering Tabby's blood glucose levels. (a.k.a. the duration).

    .
     
  40. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

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    Aug 20, 2015
    So from 8am to 8 pm every two hours.. when do I feed her on this test of 12 hours. She normally grazes
     
  41. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    1. You need to make sure Tabby has no access to food from just before 6am. This ensures that you get a fasting blood glucose level for the AM preshot test (AMPS on the spreadsheet).

    2. Just before 8am do the morning preshot blood test then give Tabby her breakfast. After you're sure she has eaten a reasonable amount administer her insulin. (@Sue and Oliver (GA) - is there a minimum amount of time Matt should wait before giving the insulin?)

    3. Every two hours, measure Tabby's blood glucose. If she normally grazes, then let her graze. You need to see how the insulin and food work together and how her blood glucose levels are affected.

    4. Make sure that Tabby doesn't eat anything from just before 6pm (AM+10), so that you fast her ready for the evening preshot test (PMPS on the spreadsheet).

    The weekend curves can be backed up with spot-check tests during the week. For example, if her normal evening shot time is 8pm then maybe you could get a test just before going to bed during the week (e.g. 11pm, which would be a PM+3 test).

    I hope I've explained the process OK. The idea of running the curve is to give you an approximate idea of how Tabby is doing on a given dose of insulin. With the curve and the spot checks, you'll be able to check her dose is safe, and also to see whether it needs to be adjusted to better improve her glucose regulation.


    Mogs
    .
     
  42. Bojangles' Mom

    Bojangles' Mom Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2015
    What Bojangles & I do is:

    Weekdays AMPS (morning/am pre-shot) 6am and feed (food left out all day). Sometimes we check at 5pm (+11 or 11 hours after shot). PMPS (pm pre-shot) is 6pm, then feed and food is left out until she eats it all or until 6am.

    One weekend day we do AMPS 6am, feed, and then test at 8am (+2), 10am (+4), 12noon (+6), 2pm (+8), 4pm (+10) and then PMPS 6pm and feed. On the weekends, I encourage Bojangles to eat occassionally (sticking food bowl in front of her face and she'll eat) as she definitely doesn't eat only at meals. Different cats react differently to insulin, but Bojangles has done well while grazing ONCE I totally removed all dry food (including the prescription dry - that was useless for us).

    Note the NADIR (lowest reading in the 12-hour cycle) will not necessarily fall at hour 6.

    PS - She gets her insulin as soon as she's eaten a few bites of food, so shortly after 6am & 6pm.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2015
    Reason for edit: Needed to add additional info.
  43. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009

    As long as she is eating well and not "off her food", you can wait till her head is buried inside her breakfast and give the shot. Matt, I hope you can be switching over to wet before you do this curve. That will give you more valid info (not so inflated by high carb dry) and be a good predictor of how much lower wet food might take her than the previous dry.
     
  44. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

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    Jun 16, 2014
    @Sue and Oliver (GA) - Thanks for that. I don't know that much about Prozinc and I didn't know whether it was necessary to wait a little after food before giving the dose.
     
  45. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    ProZinc is dosed and works a lot like Canninsulin, which you are familiar with, Mogs. The only differences are no need to have food on board before the shot, and it usually is less harsh and lasts longer.
     
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  46. Bojangles' Mom

    Bojangles' Mom Member

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    Jul 30, 2015
    And a BIG THANK YOU to Critter Mom & Sue and Oliver and all of the others on this board who have helped me and continue to help and educate others on this process. We're still new and learning, but wouldn't be where we are today without everyone on this board. As much as we all wish we didn't have to be here, it is comforting to know there are others to turn to who understand it. So many people look at me like I'm crazy for doing all of this for Bojangles, but she's my baby and I think they are crazy for saying they wouldn't do this for their furry family members! She's not only my baby, but more often than not she's my best friend.
     
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  47. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

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    Aug 20, 2015
    Ok what is U on the spreadsheet for? And what is pmps? And what have u folks been putting on the remarks side? Cam I test every two hours instead of hour?
     
  48. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Thank you for the supplemental info, Sue. :)
     
  49. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    AMPS = Morning pre-shot test result.
    PMPS = Evening pre-shot test result.

    U = Insulin dose in units.

    There is no need to test every hour. The spreadsheet is essetially a grid for recording test results; you simply put the test results into the appropriate 'pigeon holes'. For example, one day you may be able to grab a test at AM+3 and PM+2. Another day you might be able to snag a test at AM+4 and PM+7. By adding test results into the grid, it can help you spot patterns in Tabby's response to her insulin and that can be a great aid to improving her regulation.
     
  50. Shiloh & Rhonda (GA)

    Shiloh & Rhonda (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2015
    Matt, I can set up your spreadsheet for you, then email it to you. You can then save it with whatever title you want. I will just need an email address, and what time you normal shoot.
     
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  51. CarolynE

    CarolynE Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2015
    QUOTE="Tucker&Me, post: 1481164, mmber: 12939"]Did you respond to @Sue and Oliver (GA) yet? Let her help you with your spreadsheet! You can even access on your phone, since you have limited internet access. (I KNOW you have a smartphone)[/QUOTE]
    I set the SS up on the computer, but I usually access it via the Google Sheets app, which you can download free. I have the SS bookmarked on my computer, too. And I have FDMB bookmarked on the computer and the phone.

    It's a lot to take in Matt, and totally overwhelming at the beginning. The first day I dropped Martian at the vet to start on insulin, I burst into tears as soon as I walked out the door without him.
    But it's only taken a couple of weeks for me to feel more comfortable managing his diabetes. I took the time to read lots of the information here and ask people for their advice. I had a couple of robust discussions with my vet. We still don't agree on everything, but we're on the same page and working together to help Martian.
    YOU WILL GET THERE!! :bighug:
     
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  52. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

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    Aug 20, 2015
    Ok question tabby was at 496 this Morning at 8:25 am before her shot. Just came home now and rested her it's 5:50 PM and she tested at 224 BG lowest home test yet. She hasn't really eaten much today and gave her some wet food finalky with a little dry food. Also she has not pooped at all today yet which is strange. Any feed back and help right now woukd be great as I'm suppose to give her second shot her soon of 2 units of prozinc but scared may take her low maybe
     
  53. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    It does look like she is starting to use the insulin and wet food together and gradually get into better ranges. It might also be that her not eating lowered the numbers a bit. You are at +9, right? I think I'd make sure that she goes up - dropping further is a possibility - but if she rises, maybe reduce to 1.5 as it is overnight and harder to monitor? Or if you can keep a eye on her tonight, and she is back in the 300 range, go with the 2. You hold the syringe, you get to decide. I am big on going with your gut.

    Please also post on The PZI forum. I am following you and saw this, but you will be much more likely to get dosing advice there where everyone is familiar with your insulin.

    Have you been able to access the spreadsheet I sent? We need a history of dosing/levels when you need dosing advice and the spreadsheet would be a big help.
     
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  54. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

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    Aug 20, 2015
    yes i have not had time to fill out the spread sheet with my work schedule makes it tough. wish i had more time... vet said 100-200 range im ok but i am still unsure how she is responding to this prozinc she ha been high past 2 day in 400 range and was eatting alot it seemed of the dry foods... should i test her again see if she comes up i dont know. i can take a pic of my recording of blood tests and shoots i have been logging in a notebook
     
  55. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

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    Aug 20, 2015
  56. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    They can really drop when you get rid of the dry food, so that could be part of her lower ranges or the fact that she hasn't eaten.

    She is not in any dangerous ranges, but you do want to watch out for a general lowering of numbers once she is on all wet. Generally, we consider a cat regulated if they are in the mid200s at pre shot and double digits at nadir (but above 50 which is approaching hypo range)

    If I have any time tonight, I'll see if I can add your numbers. (I still have access to the spreadsheet I sent you)
     
  57. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

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    Aug 20, 2015
    so should i do the 2 units? or 1 1/2
     
  58. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Matt, looking at your numbers, have you been giving her shots at 5:45 and 8:30? It is important that she get shots 12 hours apart. It looks like she has been getting some shots after 15 hours and some hours after 9 hours? That will really mess things up. The overnight cycle is too short and the day one too long. During the day, her insulin is gone 3 hours before you shoot. If that is what you are doing, is there a way to get on a 12/12 schedule?
     
  59. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Matt, is she now 12 hours since her morning shot or some other time?
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2015
  60. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

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    Aug 20, 2015
    vet told me every 10 hours.... her shots are based off of my work schedule. Mondays i work 6:30am-4:30pm Tuesdays 6:30am-6pm, WED 6:30am-6pm, Thursdays 6:30am-8pm, Fridays 6:30am-6pm, saturdays 7:30am-4:30pm. sundays im off... so tring to base it before and after work the best i can. im still new to all of this so being exact every me has been challenging
     
  61. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

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    Aug 20, 2015
    10 hours since morning shot as of right now. her morning shot was at 8:25 am im in ohio so its now 6:45pm here
     
  62. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Will you be around for another hour? My thinking is that it is far from ideal to shoot off a 12/12 schedule. ProZinc is flexible, but shooting more than 30 minutes either way will make it really hard for you to regulate her. So if you'd wait an hour, it would at least be 11 hours. I am worried as you have gotten a lower number than you are used to and she still has 2 hours of insulin that could be working. Shooting too early can be a problem because of overlap. If the insulin isn't gone, you don't want to add more insulin in.

    It looks like you could do a 6 or 6:30 schedule almost every day except Thursday. I would at least start doing that.
     
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  63. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

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    Aug 20, 2015
    yes i will be around im at home right now.... so should i be shooting insulin at 6am and 6pm? and Thursdays i will be later then that cause of work... so if i wait till 7:30 thats 11 hours for today... i cant test here again and see if she has gone up or not
     
  64. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

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    Aug 20, 2015
    not sure why the vet suggested 10 hours.....
     
  65. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Yes, I would wait until 7:30. Why can't you test again? It is important to know whether she is rising or falling. You don't want to shoot a falling number as the insulin won't be gone yet.

    I don't know why your vet said 10 hours. It is standard practice to shoot every 12 hours with all insulin I know about. There are other possibilities once you have lots of data with ProZinc and some of the other in and out insulins but never in the beginning - only after you know how she is reacting and that the insulin isn't lasting 12 hours. I think she has been bouncing all over the place, sometimes getting insulin too late and sometimes too early - both screw her up.
     
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  66. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

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    Aug 20, 2015
    no i meant i can test again... i can test at 7:30.. if shes going up or around the same should i do 2 units or back off to 1 unit or 1.5 to be safe.
     
  67. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

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    Aug 20, 2015
    actually im gonna just go test right now be right back
     
  68. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

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    Aug 20, 2015
    shes now at 320.. think she nibbled on some food up stairs about 30 min ago
     
  69. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    So that is how long since the last shot?
     
  70. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

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    Aug 20, 2015
    no idea i guess... im gonna give her 2 units here in 10 min and hope that it will be a ok
     
  71. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Wait. Has it been 11 hours since her morning shot? If so, then I think I would give insulin. She is rising. BUT, I would give a little less, maybe 1.5. If the plan is to get on a 12/12 schedule, then her morning shot would be 11 hours from now, right? 6:30 am. It would be safer to drop the dose as you are shooting an hour early 2 cycles in a row (tonight and tomorrow am) then we can get back on a good track.
     
  72. Merlin

    Merlin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Totally agree with Sue regarding the shot times. I just read all the posts and I see quite a few quick improvements you can make to help out Tabby. Just to summarize; 1) get to a 12/12 schedule, 2) set up spreadsheet and 3) transition to low carb, wet food; all as soon as you can. Just with those three changes, you should possibly see some improvements fairly quickly.

    Prozinc is one of the most flexible insulins out there and you need to follow the 12/12 schedule (because that is how long the insulin lasts in your kitty) however depending on your kitty, you may be able to move your shot time up to 60 minutes either way but this should never be the norm at all i.e. once in a while. Once you get some solid data, you will then be able to determine if you need to go outside of a 12/12 schedule but only after you have collected enough data. That is why setting up a spreadsheet (asap) is sooooo important.

    Maybe tomorrow, you can go shopping for some low carb, wet food. Do you have any questions on what to get? You must also make a "hypo kit" that includes several cans of medium to high carb food, honey, karo or maple syrup. You can print off the following document and post it on your refrigerator so you will know what to do if Tabby should go below 50 (below 50 could be a hypo situation and is critical). I make sure that everyone in my household has read it so they all know what to do...just in case. Here is the link to the "hypo" article that you must read: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hypo-links-be-prepared-just-in-case.48385/ This link can be found in the Prozinc Forum along with a couple of other links that are important to read such the Prozinc Protocol.

    Just holler if you need additional information.
     
  73. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    which means i will need to set my alarm to wake up at 6:30am to shoot her.... its now 7:30 pm here now.. her morning shot was at 8:30am this morning
     
  74. Merlin

    Merlin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Yes - you will need to set your alarm for 6:30am tomorrow. That way you will have at least a longer cycle of 11 hours. But I am wondering if it needs to be earlier say starting on Monday when you go back to work because don't you have to be at work at 6:30am or do you leave your house at 6:30am? If so, you probably will want to get on a 6am to 6pm schedule. I think tomorrow at 6:30am would be good because if you do change your schedule with Prozinc, it is better to do it in small increments. Some say it is best in 15 minute increments however I have done it in 30/60 minute increments but that is only because I have lots of data. Does that make sense?
     
  75. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Yes. It is important to get on a 12/12 schedule. (We'll figure something out for Thursday). So set the alarm, plan to test and shoot tomorrow am at 6:30 if she is over 200. (You both can then go back to bed) Get in a test if possible tomorrow 5-7 hours later and then again at 6:30 pm.
     
  76. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    i have karo syrup... i just bought a few cans of frisky s pate to see how she does with it and so far shes not really eatting much of it.. if there is other kinda out there im all ears on that..... i gave her about a half can this morning and a little bit of dry hills as i was tring to be careful with numbers falling.. we have a follow up vet visit this friday for her 2 week recheck since she was first diagnosed. altho this vet doesnt seem very knowledgeable on the other stuff out there besides the perscription food they sell by hills.. vet also thought i was excessive with testing her as much as i do. but im tring to be on top of this and learn as much as i can
     
  77. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    also how do i save this spread sheet to my computer so i can update it and what not and post back to u guys.. sorry im not good at this stuff.. im more of a have to watch and learn kinda person
     
  78. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Hi Matt! Yeah, you may need to set an alarm. I used to do that....I often went back to bed. Or napped on the couch if I couldn't get back upstairs! :) A 12/12 shot schedule is much better and safer for your cat than 10 hours. That's odd that the vet suggested that.
     
  79. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Cindi, if he needs to do 6am/6pm, that would be an easy switch tomorrow night - jusT changing by 30 minutes. Matt, what is better 6 or 6:30?

    Some tricks to get her to like the wet food: add about a tablespoon of warm water to it to make a gravy. Put a favorite treat on top - PureBites and Bonito flakes work well for this. Put a teaspoon of dry Parmesan cheese on top.

    As you are changing to wet, we want to be very careful with her dosing. Our Oliver went down 100 points from pm to am when we switched. If we had given him the usual dose,mhe would have hypoed.
     
  80. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    yes alot of things my vet says has me kinda concerned and worried. im pretty much trusting all of you guys from first hands on experience. onlie would think a vet should know this stuff. but like i was saying in last post we have a follow up visit this friday with her. if things dont improve or shes not really giving me advise along with what you folks are saying i am going to be looking for another vet
     
  81. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

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    Aug 20, 2015

    i have to be out the door by 6:20am so sooner the better
     
  82. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
  83. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Ok. So 6:30 tomorrow am, a test during the day and 6pm tomorrow night. Then 6am and pm from then on. Rachel and Cindi, any ideas about Thursday's?
     
  84. Merlin

    Merlin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Yep Sue - that is what I was thinking. Good to do the 6:30am tomorrow morning and then get on the 6pm/6am schedule starting Sunday night. Small increments is the way to go and Tabby will feel much better once you get her on that 12/12 schedule.

    Your testing is great and much needed in order to figure out how Hershey is responding to the insulin so you are doing great in that department. I don't know why vets say that we shouldn't be testing as much. My question to the vet was; humans test throughout the day don't they? So why wouldn't you do anything different for an animal? My vet also said not to test as much too and I fought it at first and tried things that she suggested but it just wasn't working so I switched vets after the 2nd visit. I ended up going to another vet within the same office and I loved him. He was very trusting on what everyone was saying here and he was always open to new ideas and questions. Vets have to know so much about a lot of different problems and it is probably hard for them to get fully informed of any one disease, so probably no fault of theirs.

    Your vet may suggest a fructosamine test and if I were you, I would decline it. Your data and taking tests throughout the whole day gives you better information than one of those fructosamine tests and it will save you some money. Your vet will also try to sell you their cat food. Graciously decline that too as there is much better and cheaper food out there for Tabby.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2015
  85. Merlin

    Merlin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Matt's Work Schedule: Mondays i work 6:30am-4:30pm Tuesdays 6:30am-6pm, WED 6:30am-6pm, Thursdays 6:30am-8pm, Fridays 6:30am-6pm, saturdays 7:30am-4:30pm. sundays im off

    Just putting it on paper for you all to review and revise. Essentially for the most part, Tabby will mostly be on a 11:45/12:15 schedule instead of a 12/12.

    Monday - 6am/6pm (I am wondering if we should make all 6pm (Monday & Saturday) on 6:15pm ... maybe easier to remember?
    Tuesday - 6am/6:15pm
    Wednesday - 6am/6:15pm
    Thursday - 6am/8:15pm (Thursday PM dose may be on a sliding scale i.e. smaller dose since next shot will be in 10.15 hrs)
    Friday - 6am/6:15pm
    Saturday - 6am/6pm

    Matt - Is there anyone in your house that could help you out on Thursdays?
     
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  86. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Okay, Matt, the spreadsheet is in your signature. It will come up each time you post, updated. I added your insulin and food info.

    Have you signed into Goggle and gotten the one I sent you. I'll help you figure out how to add info as soon as you get it into your Favorites or bookmark it.

    Cindi, I like it. Matt, does it look doable?
     
  87. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

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    Aug 20, 2015
    no its just me and Tabby
     
  88. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    i will get it set up tom morning. i gave tabby her 1.5 units and we are gonna relax a few. makes my head spin information overload lol... i will be on here tom and im sure with more questions. will be doing her test and shot at 6:30am tom morning
     
  89. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    And Matt, post on the PZI forum tomorrow morning. We usually hang out there.
     
  90. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

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    Aug 20, 2015

    p.s you missed sunday.. whats should sunday be??
     
  91. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    I like that schedule too. We'll be around to help you figure out some doses Matt. I'd do 6AM and 6 PM Sundays since you're home. Just to keep it the same so doses are 12/12 as best as you can. :)
     
  92. Merlin

    Merlin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Monday - 6am/6pm
    Tuesday - 6am/6:15pm
    Wednesday - 6am/6:15pm
    Thursday - 6am/8:15pm (Thursday PM dose may be on a sliding scale i.e. smaller dose since next shot will be in 10 hrs)
    Friday - 6am/6:15pm
    Saturday - 6am/6pm
    Sunday - 6am/6pm

    Whoops...how's that?
     
  93. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    perfect... this is stressful to me i can honestly say. been living and breathing worrying about tabby and right way to do things. thank you all as your very so kind and caring on here. as far as tabbys being smaller dose on thursday any suggestions maybe.. also time i get home from work on thursday wont be till 8:30pm
     
  94. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    question if tabby tests 200 or below tom morning at 6am what should i do and what should i do about her shot then.. just planning ahead of the game so i am prepared... thank you
     
  95. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Anytime you get a number under 200, you stall. Don't feed her (because food raises the blood glucose levels) and retest in 20 minutes. If she is sure rising and above 200, then shoot but maybe a smidge less than the shot the cycle before. Your goal is to have two shootable numbers two times a day.
     
  96. Merlin

    Merlin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    I like your new spreadsheet! :) What did you get for your PMPS and how much did you give? You will want to put your PMPS number in cell 8O and your dose in 8P. Then if you test tonight before you go to bed say at +2, then you put your test result in 8R.

    If you don't mind, could I suggest one more thing for your spreadsheet? In your comment section, could you put the time that you tested for your AM & PM pre-shot for each day? Since you are on a slightly different schedule (other than a 12/12 schedule) on different days, that will help us help you. I have to do that because Merlin's shot times are a little different too. You can check how I do it on my spreadsheet. I just don't want the advisors on this site to assume that you are on a 12/12 schedule because it could make a difference on what we suggest.
     
  97. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    tabby tested at 241 this morning... i am unsure if i should give her 2 unit or 1.5 units of the prozinc.. suggestions please
     
  98. Terry and Casey

    Terry and Casey Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2015
    Matt,
    What did you end up giving Tabby? It's best if you post in the prozinc or general health forums to get a response...more eyes on those.
     
  99. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    i gave her 1.5 this morning at 6am.. sorry im new to this forums thing of where to post what
     
  100. Matt & Tabby

    Matt & Tabby Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2015
    ok i made a goggle account now how to i get this spread sheet on there so i can edit it and that it will show up on here when i edit
     
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