Tash

Hi all, new here . My cat Tash has had diabetes since May 2018. I started her off on Hills M/D, but it's too expensive here (Australia) and i dont like all the additives and since then I've been trying to find a more natural, cheaper alternative. There's so many options here and I'm so confused as to what's the best for her. So far, I think Applaws canned food is the most natural. Is this good for a cat with diabetes? And what is the best option for dry food here? My vet suggested an all dry food diet which I thought was a big no no?

 

Welcome to Tash and ???? Your human's name is nice to know too.

Thanks for mentioning you are in Australia. Here is a food chart for Australia that some other members put together. Last updated in July 2019. Should be some good choices here for you to look at.

Let us know what other help you need.

Member @Bron and Sheba (GA) lives in Australia so she may be able to give you other Australia specific info. I've tagged her so she knows to look at your post.

 

One more thing. The Hill's M/D dry is high carb 18.2% and the wet is 3.9%, so hopefully you are home testing before you make a food switch, especially from the dry to the wet foods. Changing to a lower carb food can dramatically lower the BG (blood glucose) levels and we don't want to see your cat have hypoglycemic symptoms.

Don't know of any dry cat foods that would be available in Australia that would also be low enough carb for a diabetic.

 

Thanks Deb. I'm Cherie by the way!
My vet didn't explain much in terms of diet. Are they supposed to be on a low carb diet? And high protein? Since Tash has been diagnosed, her glucose levels have always stayed the same. A bit on the high side, but she's doing well so far and is a happy, affectionate cat!

 

Also, I was in pet barn today and the lady working there told me not to use fancy feast as it's high in salt and additives. So why is it being recommended so much on here? I was there for ages trying to find something more natural but I walked out with nothing and decided to stick to Applaws.

 

Hi Cherie and Tash and welcome. I’m so glad you found us. I live in Sydney.
I will help in any way I can. Just ask.

I have visited pet barn many times and while I found the staff were always helpful, I didn’t think they knew much about feline nutrition, and some of the things they said were not correct. I haven’t heard anyone comment on the salt content of FF and I doubt they have any more additives than other canned food.
Have you thought of a raw diet?
I only feed my cat’s a raw diet now.
here is a link for new members
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/

Here is a link to information for Australian caregivers.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/information-for-aussie-feline-diabetic-caregivers.217781/

 

Hi, just make sure that the Applaws is the complete food and not the complementary one. I'm not familiar with foods in Australia but here in the UK we have both types. Complementary foods are ok to give in moderation to supplement an otherwise complete diet, but do not contain all the essential nutrients on their own. So have a look at the labels!

 

Thankyou Bron, I have read all your information. It's a lot of help!
The lady at petbarn said a vet told her fancy feast has a lot of salt and additives?
Yes, i have been thinking about a raw diet. What do you recomend and has it brought your cat into remission?

And Diana, I didn't know that Applaws could be complimentary, I will be sure to check on that. Thanks

 

I’m glad you have found the information helpful. Sadly vets get very little training in feline nutrition and what they do get is given to them by the large companies that manufacture the prescription foods.
I will look into the salt content of FF and get back to you.

I swapped Sheba over to a home made diet in 2014 and it made a big difference to her general health. She had previously been in remission for 2 1/2 years and had fallen out of remission in 2014 and unfortunately I wasn’t able to get her back into remission (it is much harder the second time around for most cats). But the raw diet definitely helped her generally. She passed away in 2017 from cancer.

I feed my current cats a raw diet. I feed a frankenprey diet but you can feed a raw diet and use a supplement. I have listed a company in my information sheets that posts a very good supplement out of WA. You just add it to the raw meat to make a complete diet. .
I would not use any of the raw foods available at WW or Coles or pet stores. They are full of preservatives.
If you want more information on raw diets I am happy to help you.

 

This link that Bron and Sheba gave you would be a good read.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/new-how-you-can-help-us-help-you.216696/

Having those little bits of information in your signature or so very helpful to those of us helping you. Couldn't sleep last night so signed on to FDMB message board. It's almost 2 am in Sydney so you probably won't see this until your morning, unless you are a real night owl.

 

Hi again Cherie,
Could you tell us what insulin you are using and dose please and if you are thinking of home testing, which we strongly recommend here?. It’s the only way to really keep Tash safe.

Also wanted to mention, which I see Deb did near the top of the thread, that changing over to a low carb diet, which is the thing to do, needs to be done cautiously, because the blood glucose will drop and unless the blood glucose is being monitored, there is a risk of it dropping too low. Insulin doses usually have to be adjusted down a bit after food changes.
Bron

 

Hi - I’m in Australia too I have been feeding for a long time Fancy Feast Chunky Chicken Feast (recently rebranded from Chicken & GIblet Pate - I emailed Purina last week and checked this new one is only 2% carbs too), Purr Tuna topped with Chicken Liver in Jelly - (from Coles) & Ultimates varieties - they have the carbs listed on the label but they’re all pretty much under 2%. These are all complete foods too. I’ve steered away from Applaws as they all have rice as an ingredient which would up the carbs and they are just for complementary feeding. My cat has been going well on these - went into remission for 2 years and has been in and out of remission since being re-diagnosed.

 

Hello and welcome!! I’m just learning all this too but you have definitely come to the right place for advice and information!!! These people know their stuff!!

 

Hi again,
Tash has been on 2 doses of Insulan in the morning and 2 doses at night. (8am and 8pm) since May-Nov last year. She then went to the vet for a glucose curve which they then put up her Insulan to 3.5 which has shown no difference to her levels. I test at home using urine and the keto diastix. I test every few days but now that I'm changing diet, I will test every day. She's due for another vet visit next month.
I'm so confused, I really don't know what to feed her. Doesnt fancy feast have a lot of additives? I want the best for her and to obviously go into remission.

 

Additives aren’t necessarily a bad thing - a lot of those additives are in there to make sure the food meets all of a cat’s nutritional needs or as preservatives - not too different from the processed foods we eat. I’m not sure if I missed it but what type/brand of insulin are you using? Are you only testing her urine or blood as well? It’s important to get a blood test before each shot. If you’re not doing that everyone here is super supportive and we can help you learn how to do it - then you’ll be able to figure out exactly how she is reacting to the insulin and work out the right dose with our help

 

Sorry, Tash is on 3 units twice a day. The vet wanted to do 3.5 but my pen wouldn't do half units! I'm using Lantus SoloStar by the way.

 

I didnt know i had to test blood. My vet never said anything about that!

 

3.5 units of Lantus twice a day is a lot. Vets generally don’t say anything about testing bloods yourself but just about everyone on this board does. It’s important to test before giving a shot to make sure your cat needs the dose of you are going to administer and keep her safe. It’s also good to test during the day (especially in the early days) to see how low the insulin is taking your cat and how it’s working - a lot of people put this info on a spreadsheet so you can have a record of it and so we can help you to fine tune the dose. Someone will come along soon to this to let you know how to set up a spreadsheet. Most of us use a human meter to test our cat’s blood - I have found the best to be the Accucheck Performa - needs the tiniest drop of blood. The cheapest place I have found for this and the strips you need to use with it is at Chemist Warehouse . Also, with giving half doses, you can use a syringe and use that to draw insulin from the pen cartridge (that’s what I do). Keeping asking questions- we’re here to help.

 

Thanks for that. I'm a bit worried about testing blood as I've never done it before. Should I wait until her next vet visit next month to discuss with them?

 

I know - it’s a lot to wrap your head around and at the end of the day it’s entirely up to you how you manage everything. Of course discuss with your vet but if you wanted to get started on testing it is a bit overwhelming at first but pretty easy once you get the hang of it - it’s just a tiny prick to the ear and we can show you how. I hope I’m not coming off as pushy - pushy people really put me off this board when I first joined, but it really is the best way to make sure your cat is safe and on the right dose. Keep in mind also that when the vet tests blood sugar your cat may be stressed from the vet visit and blood glucose spiking higher than it would be at home. Take your time to think, read some of the posts on this board and let us know if you need anything

 

Fancy Feast is recommended by some people here, because the pate versions are low carb and cheap to buy and easily available. Unfortunately, it is also rather high in phosphorus, which is not good for a cat with kidney issues, or urinary issues. I never fed it. There are lots of other food options available.

I didn't test at first, but I really wanted to, as I wanted to understand how my cat was doing on the insulin. Humans test their blood sugar before injections, made sense to me we should do the same for our cats. My non diabetic cat was really high at one emergency vet visit, not my regular vet. He wanted to talk to me about diabetes. I tested at home and the 12 at the vet was 2.9 (normal) at home the next day. Sold me on the idea that you should dose based on blood sugar numbers you get at home, not elevated ones at the vet.

 

So are you all saying you change the Insulan doses based on the blood test? I'm scared to do that to be honest. What if I'm wrong she's been her normal self on the dose that I'm giving her what if I make her sick?

And has anyone tried the grain free brand of food? I can't see any info on that here. Looking at the ingredients it seems to be ok.

 

I thought there was a problem with 3.5 units of insulin twice a day not making any difference to her levels? Grain free foods can be good but sometimes they substitute potato and other starchy ingredients for the grain so they can still sometimes be high in carbs. If I were you I would stick to the list of foods from the link above..... (or if you want to try something different email the manufacturer and ask for the carb content as fed - we would love to get new info too!). Most important, I wouldn’t change her diet too much if you’re not willing to test - low carb food could drop her blood sugar dramatically and her current insulin dose may be too high for her new levels and you may risk a hypo episode.

 

Testing her blood will not make her sick.

 

I would strongly recommend you try testing the blood glucose levels. You will be much more in control if you test the BG levels.
While the urine testing is good, it only gives you a picture of what the levels have been since the last time Tash peed.
And the urine all mixes together so it is not really a true reading. The only time it is really useful to the vet is when the glucose is negative and then they know the BGs are lower and they need to pay attention. But Tash could drop low then shoot up high and the urine reading would not show that.

you don’t need vet permission to test. In fact a lot of vets are not keen in testing. I was lucky my vet was quite happy for me to test.

 

I think she means what if changing the doses makes her sick. Is that right Cherie? ( testing her blood will definitely not make her sick)

 

Thats right, i meant changing the dose. Ok I will go to the chemist and buy one.
Appreciate all your help!

 

I would recommend buying a human meter as a pet meter is a lot more expensive to run and our dosing methods are based on human meter numbers.

 

Ok will do. And I might try her on the gourmet delights range. I've never tried that brand. Will see how she goes.

 

Hi Cherie! You have been getting a lot of good information here. A lot to wrap your head around. But I see several members from Australia have given you information, including a good meter to use to test at home.

There is information with Tips and Tricks for Home Testing here. There are even videos to watch. Looks more complicated than it is.

Ear Testing Psychology is really helpful in my opinion. Sort of thinking about what will make your cat comfortable with "what is this new thing my mummy is trying to do to me now????!?! do I even like this? Ok, it's not too different than getting my shot, oh boy there are yummy treats!"

Please keep asking questions and let us know how the home testing goes. Sometimes it helps to break the testing down into little steps and get your cats used to the new process. Some cats don't like to be restrained. Treats like any kind of pure meat (home cooked chicken/turkey/beef/pork with no spices) can be a way to get your cat to associate the testing with something good. Yummy treat! Oh boy!

 

Just a question on the food. Do you give your cats 1 85g can in the morning, and one at night?

 

Depends on how big your cat is, if the diabetes is controlled or not, what the ideal weight for your cat is etc.

An unregulated diabetic cat may need a lot more food. I remember when I first got Wink that he was eating about 10-11 oz of food a day. That decreased as he got better regulated. A good weight for him was 10-11 pounds.

Another example, my little 7.5 lb (3.4 kg) non-diabetic cat eats about 4 oz of food a day, plus some more for snacks, a couple of teaspoons. She is tiny though, and this is a good weight for her.

ECID Every Cat is Different. But only 1 can in the AM and one in the PM may not be enough.

 

I don't think it's enough because she's always hungry but she puts on weight so easy. What snacks do you feed in between?

 

Most of us find that several mini meals are better than one big meal. Plus it’s easier on the pancreas. Human diabetics snack too. You can get freeze dried meat treats as snacks, or boil/bake a chicken breast and cut into pieces. It’s fairly low fat too.

 

Ok thankyou! Tash is just over 5kgs. So a little overweight at the moment according to the vet, even though I feed her small portions

 

I feed about every 4-6 hours about half an 85g tin at a time. If I’m not going to be home I use a timed pet feeder. Feeding frequently can help keep blood sugar more stable

 

Also make sure no food for at least 2 hours before you do a blood test - you don’t want the levels to be food influenced.

 

Can you feed raw chicken or does it have to be cooked?

 

I feed my cats a completely raw diet all the time. You just need to make sure it is really fresh and defrost it in the fridge.
If you are using it for treats cut the chicken up in bite size pieces, or what size you want and put it out on a flat tray and freeze it all, then put it in plastic bags and get out as needed

 

Did you have any luck finding a glucose meter today?

 

No, I havnt had a chance to go to the chemist today.

 

Using raw food can be great, either as treats or as the main food you are feeding. You can buy raw food at stores that has all the needed minerals and vitamins your cat needs. If you make your own raw food, you need to add these supplements so your cat gets the proper nutrition, if this is their major food intake.

There is info about making your own raw food on catinfo.org and plenty of other places. I recently read a post from Veronica & Babu-chiri (she lives in Mexico) and she makes her own raw food. She mentioned 2 places that ship the supplements internationally. Iherb.com and Vitacost.com were the 2 places she mentioned.

 

If you are just using small amount of raw for treats I don't think there is a need to add the supplements.
I would only use human grade meat. I would not buy the raw food that is sold in supermarkets here. They have preservatives in them.

If you were going to change over to a fully raw diet or quite a bit of the meals were raw diet , you would need to add supplements to make the diet a complete one nutritionally.

 

Ok thanks for the advice!