Thinking of NOT giving the next shot

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Spacey & Ella, Dec 31, 2009.

  1. Spacey & Ella

    Spacey & Ella Member

    Dec 28, 2009
    Hello everyone,

    Since a couple of day's my sugar cat is on low carb only and yesterday there where some problems.
    She got way too much insulin and found herself on a roller coaster.
    So this morning I lowered the dose to <0.5 unit and accepted slightly higher numbers of bg.
    Pre shot she got wet can food and later on I chopped up a big peace of beef and that was ripped to peaces by Spacey and Chewie for the rest of the day.
    Her bg, even though eating all day, dropped to 171.
    So I'm considering now to NOT give any insulin now.
    The right approach??
  2. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Dec 28, 2009
    In my opinion, it won't hurt anything to skip the shot, particularly if you had a wonky day yesterday. Your other choice is to wait 30 minutes to an hour and see if the number goes up substantially. Then you could shot. That would work best if you are going to be around for the next 4 hours or so.
  3. VictorsMom (GA)

    VictorsMom (GA) New Member

    Dec 28, 2009
    If 171 was the pre-shot number, I would hold off, too, especially if you've had some ups and downs recently.
  4. Victoria & Sundance

    Victoria & Sundance Member

    Dec 28, 2009
    Good call... a 171 preshot is a no shot number on Caninsulin. And with too much and a bit of a roller coaster, as you say, it's a good idea to let it clear and start again - if/when it's needed.
  5. Spacey & Ella

    Spacey & Ella Member

    Dec 28, 2009
    The 171 was one hour before the next shot was due/do (what's the right spelling?).

    Immediately before the next shot was scheduled, I tested again and then it was 138. So I didn't give any insulin.
    I'll see in the morning how she is.

    It gives me a lot of peace in my mind that you agree on the approach.
    Thanks a lot. :)
  6. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Dec 28, 2009
    How about this?

    If I understand right, then she came down on her own without insulin. Is that right? If so, this is great news! It may be that food will help her pancreas to bring down her numbers. Can you (if you aren't already) start feeding her several times a day? Same amount of food, just spread out over the day (and night). If you aren't going to be around, you can freeze it and leave it out for her. This may help a lot. Worth a try.

    One way you can see if this is what is really happening, is to test, feed her, wait 30 minutes and test again. If she comes down with the food, you are on your way!
  7. VictorsMom (GA)

    VictorsMom (GA) New Member

    Dec 28, 2009
    I agree with Sue and Oliver - it sounds like the pancreas might be waking up... I would recommend giving the small meals a try - I think it helped my cat go into remission. Feed several small meals throughout the day - not so much as to overwhelm the pancreas, but just enough to nudge it into action. Keep testing, too. If the blood sugar is coming down on it's own after feeding, that *might* mean the pancreas has started doing it's job again. :) Fingers crossed!
  8. Sweetgrass & the Furries

    Sweetgrass & the Furries Senior Member Moderator

    Dec 28, 2009
    Woooo Hooo way to go :) This is excellent.

    You want to be careful with that tender healing pancreas now and do feed in small amounts 4-5 times a day as you can.

    If you test and see a number above about 180, and it is at least 90 minutes after eating ( therefore no longer a food spike) you may want to consider something like 0.25 of a unit to help keep supporting that pancreas.

    When Abby was in this position, we just simply let a few high numbers ride, as long as they went back down and didn't keep climbing.

    Paws are crossed this is just the beginning of good things for you guys.

    Happy New year!
  9. Spacey & Ella

    Spacey & Ella Member

    Dec 28, 2009
    Well, pfff, oh my....
    I'm extremely happy now to hear all this! But also terrified that I'll screw up.

    About the drop in her bg:
    Yes, she ate and later on her levels came down on their own. Then she ate the raw beef chunks.

    Now, after eating a bit of can food her numbers go up again.
    Not so much to make her feel awful.

    About the food:
    Since they're on wet food, they self regulate the amount they eat. And the rest I leave for them. So, this way they eat when they're hungry. I don't have to regulate anything at all, just provide.

    I do have a question now.
    I've got a bit of a schedule from the vet which I still keep in mind and follow. Here it is:
    - At 7 am give food, give shot of insulin and painkillers (for her tooth problems and arthritis)
    - At 7 pm give good, give shot

    What I'm still doing is giving food at around those times. But first I'm always testing the bg's. And when they are high(er) I'm giving insulin after Spacey has eaten a bit.
    What the vet didn't recommend but what I'm doing anyway is leaving food for the cats, cause the last day's I've noticed that Spacey likes to eat mostly 3, 4, 5 hours after the shot (or after the time she supposed to have the shot). Somehow she recognized on her own that the insulin is about to kick in.
    So what I'm doing now is:
    - 7 am: test her bg, give some wet can food with a bit of water (why? she didn't have her pain meds yet), give (or not) insulin and painkillers
    - then I prepare a meat meal and leave it for the cats to chew on. This way there is food to eat in the moments Spacey needs it in case of insulin that kicks in or so.
    - at 7 pm: I test, give can food and shot If necessary.

    Okay.... now I've read your answers I get the idea that I have to drop the schedule. That means I'm free to give her the insulin whenever she needs it and NOT on fixed times.
    Do I understand that correctly.
    Again... I'm terrified to screw things up for my girl.

    Btw: With raw food the bg dropt on their own. With can food not so much. Is that something you recognize?

    A bit happy ... a bit in stress...
    and forever thankfull

  10. Sue and Oliver (GA)

    Sue and Oliver (GA) Well-Known Member

    Dec 28, 2009
    You are doing great, Ellie. No way you are going to screw things up. I wonder if the canned food has more carbs than the raw, and that is why she drops lower with the raw. I know you are in Europe and the food in Janet's charts are not so easily bought. Yes, I would free feed the food. I wouldn't necessary give insulin when she needs it; you still need to stay with the 12 hour between shots time frame. If you sudddenly give insulin at 3pm, then you might need to give it again at 3am.

    I think we are saying that you should feed small amounts often and see if that keeps her numbers down. Continue to check bg levels at your usual time frame - once in the am and once in the pm, and anytime she seems "off".. If one morning, she is at 230 (for example) after being in the 100s for a day, you might give a splash of insulin (that .25 someone mentioned) to give her pancreas a help. That might do it for the day, but you will be checking in the pm - 12 hours later- to see.

    What is up with her teeth? Can you get them done? Sometimes a tooth problem will keep them in diabetic numbers, and then when it is resolved, they are off insulin.

    I thought this was the trickest part of this whole thing - when they started to need less insulin and had better numbers. Now it really becomes a sugar dance! Come on with your numbers when you are wondering what to do. And remember, it is looking like she wants to be off insulin. This is a good thing!
  11. Spacey & Ella

    Spacey & Ella Member

    Dec 28, 2009
    Right, .... forgot that insulin works for a while. :oops:

    Thank you very much for your encouragement, Sue! I really appreciate it.

    Her teeth: well, she had an infection in her mouth due to a tooth with a lot of plaque on it. That one will have to be removed, but my vet wont do it before jan, 13th. She want's first Spacey to be stable on the bg's before doing an operation. I've had a discussion with her of course about the chicken-and-egg scenario but that wouldn't help.
    So, for now I'm doing all I can and hope for the best.

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