Totally Hopeless!!!

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Tiger-Hobo, Sep 3, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Tiger-Hobo

    Tiger-Hobo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2013
    Kangaroo was diagnosed with diabetes in April by our veterinary.

    He did pee lot and literally he was sleeping in the water bowel. (Kangaroo is 12 years old and he always walked and sit funny that is why we named him Kangaroo) Now his walking became more awkward. We were suspected that he has hyper thyroids, diabetes or kidney diseases
    The vet said diabetes. We get Lantus insulin –twice a day 2 units at morning and one at night. They suggested the dry DM food and some can if he likes it.
    It was an extremely hard two weeks for both of us but we got the routines.
    A month past and he was still sleeping in the water bowl that was the time when I started to search the web and found this great web site. I learned lot and I would like to say big thanks for that.
    So we ditched the dry food and got Wellness can food. sometimes cooked chicken breast as a treat. I bought an Accu-check Aviva tester and I started checking his blood sugar level daily and do some curve on the weekend. It was high and bouncing between 8.5(154) & 17(312)
    Two weeks after I switched his food he came off from insulin. his blood sugar level was consistent between 5.8(105) & 8.1(146).
    It just jumped up three times when I forgot to put the dog food away)

    I also learned that his “funny” walking what got worsen is neuropathy and could be cured with Methyl B12 injection. He is getting that every day.
    Happy, happy, happy life.

    OK. At this point my husband was away in Europe for three months. He came back in June. (He obsessed with the Temptations!! & Even I explain to him the rules he was keep giving him, when I didn’t see it – after two weeks and a big fight finally he stopped) but by that point his blood sugar level was up again and we back to insulin.
    His blood sugar level was bouncing between 9.0(163) &17 (312) - then around end of July became “stabled” in the 16.6(298 & 20.5(369) reading. I started to increase the insulin level by 0.25 units every 4th day. We are up to 3 unit and no any changes. Actually it is stays in the same level even when I skip.
    Now I don’t know what to do, increase the insulin level or what?

    Please do not suggest that to go to the vet. Our vet is a big company with several doctors. Sorry to say that but they are not the best BUT since we are running a sanctuary for kitties with special needs almost totally on our own and we are getting some discount and credit from this veterinary, we can’t move to another.
    My best and foremost support is your web-site. I wish I would have more time to stay on and search and learn but I work 12-15 hours a day between 1full and 2 part time jobs to support the kitties I Totally hopeless.
     
  2. Hey everyone,

    This was originally posted in the "Announcements" forum so I copied it here so that everyone could see it and respond.

    Carl
     
  3. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    It sounds like you are home testing his blood sugars, and that is a good and life saving first step.
    When you have a chance to, it would be good if you could put together a spreadsheet so that we can better help you with the dosing questions. Someone here will provide you with help in setting up a spreadsheet.

    Good luck with Kangaroo. Ask all the questions you need and post often, we will be here to help you through.
     
  4. terriy

    terriy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2011
    Welcome aboard!!! It's not hopeless at all!!! Plenty of folks here with the know how to help you with anything!!
    Yes a spreadsheet will help a lot! That way you can start seeing a much bigger picture of how the dose is helping him!!
    You are on the right track so no worries!
     
  5. Lisa and Witn (GA)

    Lisa and Witn (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Hi and welcome to FDMB.

    So far you are doing a great job in managing Kangaroo's diabetes.

    You may have missed the optimal insulin dose because you increased the dose too soon. We recommend that you wait at least one week between dose changes to determine if a dose increase is needed. It takes this long for the body to adjust to the insulin dose change. Since you were increasing every 4 days, you may have missed the best dose. This is a condition called Somogyi rebound and is caused by too much insulin. What happens is that when the dose is too high, the cat's body produces extra glucose to prevent hypoglycemia. So you will get a higher BG reading when you test.

    To find Kangaroo's best dose, you may want to drop the dose back down to 1 unit for a week and start the process over. The .25 unit increase is great, however, this time wait at least one week before you increase it again. Also, make sure hubby is not sneaking any treats to Kangaroo. :eek:
     
  6. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    lets see what we can do here. First can you confirm that the Wellness is the one that says "grain free" on it?

    Then can you set up a spreadsheet - we can help you with it if you like - this will give us a much better picture of whats going on and be better able to advise.. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18207

    Wendy
     
  7. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Hello to Kangaroo and his mommabean and welcome to the FDMB. Would you please tell us your first name?

    If you would share with us where you live, country, state/province, closest city, that would be helpful too.
     
  8. Tiger-Hobo

    Tiger-Hobo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2013
    First,I would like to thank to everyone for replying with some very helpful information.
    Special thanks to Carl to moving my post to the right place. Honestly beside struggling with my kitty's diabetes I really struggle with using the FDM Board. How to post, add anything like my kitty's profile etc. I did attached kangaroo's profile and I see that it shows differently as the rest of yours . I know I have to take the time to learn it but my biggest issue TIME and always TIME what I am short of.
    To answer for you questions - I start from the back and yes I should star with my name is Susanna and I was able to add where I live - Peterborough a small cottage county in Ontario, Canada.
    I added Kangaroo's profile (probably the wrong way) where I posted his food what is Wellness-grain free - chicken and turkey,
    I am working kangaroo's spreadsheet and I will try to complete that on the weekend so I can upload it on Monday.
    Thanks Lisa, I think you totally right, I do not know how I missed and messed this up. As of yesterday I went back and I am giving him 0.1U twice a day. I hope I will see lower numbers soon!!.
    At this point I just feel so guilty and worried because of his neuropathy. It is bad but since I give him the B12 injections I believe is stabled and not getting worse.
     
  9. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Hi Susanna! Nice to know what name to call you.

    My foster Wink had horrible neuropathy, walking completely on his hocks, could only walk a few steps and had to stop and rest, could not jump, going up the stairs was hard. Since he has been regulated, his neuropathy is greatly improved. He walks more up on his tip-toes, no issues walking or jumping. Stairs are a breeze. I just wish he didn't think he had to jump up on the kitchen island counter when I have the gas cook top going. :eek: :shock: :eek: Kitties and open flame do not mix.

    Wink was also getting weekly B-12 shots to help with the neuropathy. He still has a few traces, mostly when he is tired, he walks a bit down on his paw.

    Where you put the profile, is where we usually put an avatar, a picture of your cat.

    The profile goes in your signature. User control panel, profile tab, edit signature, enter the information there. Right now, I can not read what is in your profile, it's too small. Even when I increase the zoom on my computer, the text is blurry and unreadable.
     
  10. Picknickchick

    Picknickchick Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2013
    Hi Susanna,

    Nice to meet you and Kangaroo! Some of this may seem daunting at first, but it will soon become "the drill", as you become accustomed to and comfortable with taking care of your kitty. And your greatest encouragement will be seeing Kangaroo feeling better.

    The people here are very nice, and everyone helps in whatever way they can. Although diabetes can feel overwhelming, don't be discouraged. Here, you can get help, warmth, humour and community.

    My best wishes to you and Kangaroo,

    Lara
     
  11. Tiger-Hobo

    Tiger-Hobo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2013
    Thanks for the tip Deb & Wink. I followed your instruction and a red warning sing said I am not allowed more than 255 character to post. Also I wasn't able to put picture/image up. What am I doing wrong again?
     
  12. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Great!

    I am not sure about vitamin B12 helping with the neuropathy, I think it needs to be the methylcobalamin form... Deb?

    What meter are you using?

    Wendy
     
  13. Tiger-Hobo

    Tiger-Hobo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2013
    Thanks Debbie, I am injecting him with Methyl B12 and we use Accu-check Aviva Bl Meter.
     
  14. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    What is it that you are trying to put in your signature exactly? For our SS (spreadsheet) and profile, we usually put a link to a document that is stored over in google docs. Doing it that way, you may not run into the 255 character limit that is stopping you.

    For our signatures, we usually put our first name, cat's name age and sex, insulin being used, meter being used, diagnosis date, any complicating medical issues your cat has, a link to your SS, a link to your profile.

    If you are trying to get an avatar up, like my picture of Wink over to the side there, then you should look at this post in the Tech Support forum. Detailed step by step instructions on adding an avatar. Avatars

    Hope that helps.
     
  15. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Ok great. Btw I live in Oshawa. I use the bayer contour cos I can get 100 strips and lancets for $50 or less on eBay. Where do you buy your supplies?

    Looking forward to seeing the SS.

    Wendy
     
  16. Tiger-Hobo

    Tiger-Hobo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2013
    When I was checking out the Bl meters, Accu Chek was "one of the best" as a suggestion, that is why I picked that but - expensive. Right now I buy it at Castco and for 50 i pay around $70 dollar.
    I can't make a direct link from google to upload Kangaroo's Profile just as the "meet the kitties" album - not direct link.
     
  17. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Ok well here's some suggestions.. First you might as well apply for a free bayer meter, it will take about four weeks to arrive so you can use the accucheck for now. The below meter is just as good.

    Second you can get the strips on eBay. I use Sherwood medial or shorefront medical and "buy it now" and I get 100 strips, 100 free lancets and shipping for $50. Just watch expiry dates. You can even do auctions and sometimes get a better deal.
    Or if you don't like eBay then shoppers at least gives you points.

    Free meter offer for Canadians
    You can get a free bayer contour USB meter and 25 strips if you go to http://www.bayerdiabetes.ca/BDoffer and use code "BDS 06-12" And then if you register the meter when it arrives, you get a free USB wall charger. Its a reliable meter.
    This offer was in the flyer comes inside the BD ultra fine 3/10cc syringes you get in Walmart Canada. I used a similar one six months ago and it worked great so bayer seem to run it a lot.

    Wendy
     
  18. Tiger-Hobo

    Tiger-Hobo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2013
    Thanks Wendy, I will look in to it. Yes, its souns like a good deal and definitely cheaper.
    Susanna
     
  19. Tiger-Hobo

    Tiger-Hobo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2013
    Finally!!!!!!I was able to upload the link in the right way. Thanks to everyone who tried to help. the problem was in me.

    I lowered the insulin to U1 as Wendy suggested -well I am having a littlebit lower reading but not much, what should I do, wait for another 2-3 days, maybe lower it ot start to increase it with 0.25U?
     
  20. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    I think it was Lisa who suggested it.

    Anyway before we make a dose change can you get some more tests in? Dose changes are based on nadir or the low point of the day which can occur 5-7 Hours after the shot. So I usually recommend four tests a day.

    - always before the shot - this is mandatory as you don't want to shoot when too low. As a newbie this too low number is 200 but is reduced over time once you have the data to know if its safe.
    - mid cycle - 5-7 hours after morning shot depending on your schedule. This is to see how low he is going. The low point "nadir" is what you base dose changes on since you don't want him dropping too low (under 50).
    - before bed (2-3hours after Pm shot) to get an idea of what his overnight plans are. If this number is less than the pre shot test number you may want to set the alarm for a test a few hours later as this implies an active cycle.

    If you can get those few more tests in the next few days we can see how low he goes and then do a change if need be.

    Here's how we decide on dose changes.. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1581

    Let me know

    Wendy
     
  21. Tiger-Hobo

    Tiger-Hobo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2013
    Yes, Lisa did. Sorry.

    The big problem, I work 12-15 hours a day, even weekend some. I will be off just for the next weekend (21st). Then I could make regular curve on Sunday and partly on Saturday.
    It’s kind of “catch 22”
     
  22. Deb & Wink

    Deb & Wink Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    You get those mid-cycle tests in when your schedule allows you to do them. With your crazy long work days, I can see how that will only be the weekends.

    Occasionally, maybe set the alarm to wake you up at night to test mid-cycle. It's not fun to get up in the middle of the night, but sometimes you get some great data that way. I just did it last night.
     
  23. Tiger-Hobo

    Tiger-Hobo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2013
    Is this emergency or I just can’t rest my mind?!
    Kangaroo’s blood sugar level is still consistently high.
    I am in case conference with my client and other service providers –when my husband phoned twice in 5 minutes. I knew something wrong, otherwise he never calls. It was 2:15 pm - we just finished with the meeting, so I called him back. He said Kangaroo’s head, legs shaky. This hit me, my little brain froze and I couldn’t say more just -to give him a little honey and I am on my way home. Regularly takes 45 minutes to get home, I was home in 30 minutes. Kangaroo was laying in his favour chair looks up to me when I step in the room and I could swear his face was asking me –“mommy”” tell me what just happened with me” and he was full with life. I checked his blood sugar level – it was 22 (396) and after a million question to my hubby, turned out he probably had a small seizure. (We had an FIV positive kitty Sheba who had bad seizers).
    Now I totally confused.
    OK>
    At 6:30 am his blood sugar level was 18 (324), he had a half can of Frisky pate and he got 1U insulin and before I left to work at 7:45 am he got his Blood Sugar Gold supplement. At 2:15 p m he got sick- 2:30 pm he got some honey and 3:00pm his blood Sugar level was 22 (396). He is normal; he did drink, walked around with his neuropathy.
    My confusion – could he have – is it possible - a hypo period with this numbers or his seizer is now something else.
    I can’t rest my mind.
     
  24. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    The 22 is Canadian numbers right?

    Wendy
     
  25. Tiger-Hobo

    Tiger-Hobo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2013
    Yes, Wendy,
     
  26. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Ok so next question - are you testing his urine for ketones? I am wondering if it could be diabetic ketoacidosis.

    Although he could well be dropping too low during the day and bouncing up again by the time you test. Can you get some mid cycle tests this weekend.?

    Wendy
     
  27. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    If there aren't ketones, it is possible to have seizures from other issues, so keep an eye out.

    Check my signature link for Secondary Monitoring Tools to see some other assessments which may be useful to do.

    And if you don't have it yet, here are some glucose reference ranges used for decision making using glucometers. Human glucometer numbers are given first. Numbers in parentheses are for non-US meters. Numbers in curly braces are estimates for an AlphaTrak.

    < 40 mg/dL (2.2 mmol/L) {< 70 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
    - Treat as if HYPO if on insulin
    - At nadir (lowest point between shots) in a long term diabetic (more than a year), may earn a reduction.

    < 50 mg/dL (2.8 mmol/L) {< 80 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
    - If before nadir, steer with food, ie, give modest amounts of medium carb food to keep from going below 50 (2.8).
    - At nadir, often indicates dose reduction is earned.

    50 - 130 mg/dL (2.8 - 7.2 mmol/L) {80 - 160 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
    - On insulin - great control when following a tight regulation protocol.
    - Off insulin - normal numbers.
    (May even go as low as the upper 30s (1.7 mmol/L){60s for an AlphaTrak}; if not on insulin, this can be safe.

    > 150 mg/dL (8.3 mmol/L) {> 180 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
    - At nadir, indicates a dose increase may be needed when following a tight regulation protocol.

    200 mg/dL (11.1 mmol/L) {230 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
    - no shot level for beginners; may slowly reduce to 150 mg/dL (8.3 mmol/L) {180 mg/dL} for long-acting insulins (Lantus, Levemir, and ProZinc) as data collection shows it is safe

    180 - 280 mg/dL (10 - 15.6 mmol/L) {may be 210 - 310 mg/dL for an AlphaTrak}
    - Any time - The renal threshold (depending on data source and cat's renal function) where glucose spills into the urine.
    - Test for ketones, glucose is too high.

    >= 280 mg/dL (15.6 mmol/L) {may be >=310 mf/dL for an AlphaTrak}, if for most of the cycle between shots
    - Uncontrolled diabetes and thus at risk for diabetic ketoacidosis and hepatic lipidosis
    - Follow your insulin protocol for dose adjustments
    - Test for ketones; if more than a trace level of ketones, go to vet ASAP.
     
  28. Tiger-Hobo

    Tiger-Hobo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2013
    Thanks for the fast respond.
    I bought the strips but I didn't do it. I tried it a couple times - when he went to pee, - funny I can do anything with him, but he doesn't let me go to him when he pees. He “jumps” out from the litter box, and one- he doesn't pee for awhile or he pees all over on the carpet.
    Shame but I kind of run/hide away from this too. I will try to do it again when I get home from work. If he has what can I do, at home, I can’t take him to the vet till Sunday morning. (I work 14 hours tomorrow. )
    I checked what is the symptoms for it and beside what happened today he doesn't have any other symptoms.
    I extremely nerves. I just want to run home, but I have to finish my job here first.
    Susanna
     
  29. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
  30. Tiger-Hobo

    Tiger-Hobo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2013
    Thanks Wendy, I will check his blood sugar when I get home and he might pee after he eats. Unfortunately I have to skip his shot today or tomorrow morning. You know since you are in my time zone, now 9:15 pm and I get home the earliest around 10:30-11:00 pm.
    if something happens with him, because of my stupidity, I never will forgive myself. I try to finish sooner and go, I will let you know what was I able to do, tomorrow as soon as I got to my work.
    Thanks again, Susanna
     
  31. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    .Why do have to skip?

    Maybe u can move the shots later? FYI you can move by 30mins a day if you know u will be home late..
     
  32. Tiger-Hobo

    Tiger-Hobo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2013
    Since I snicked home and came back to work when he was ill, I missed the shot time, When I get home it will be 4 hours pass the shot time. If shot at 11:00 pm I can't shot on the morning. I leaving at 7:30 am for work.
     
  33. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Ah that makes sense..
     
  34. Tiger-Hobo

    Tiger-Hobo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2013
    An other half hour and I am done. Thanks, and talk to you tomorrow. ( Hope with better news!!!)
    Susanna
     
  35. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    U skipping tonite or tomorrow? Tomorrow would be better cos tonite you could get a couple of tests in..
     
  36. Tiger-Hobo

    Tiger-Hobo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2013
    I am skipping tomorrow's morning. I just leaving now.
    Susanna
     
  37. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    You must be exhuasted..that's a long day!
     
  38. Tiger-Hobo

    Tiger-Hobo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2013
    Good Morning,
    Kangaroo was hungry when I got home, I checked his BSL and give some food - Wellness and 1U insulin. I didn't sleep much through the night, I checked his BSL level in every hour till 5 :00 am when I had to go take care the rest of the kitties and get ready to go work. I updated his SS sheet. Unfortunately he didn't pee at all. ( I believe - he knew that I want to bug him. )
    I will try to do two curve tomorrow and definitely check his urine.
    Anything else I can/shouldn do?
    Susanna
     
  39. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
  40. Tiger-Hobo

    Tiger-Hobo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2013
    I was working on the weekend too (part time) but I was able to check his BS level in some hours. In both days , -his blood sugar comes lower and at hours 4-5 doing up and then coming lower again. I wonder why? That not makes any sense for me. I will increase his insulin from today - pm with .25U.
    After a struggle I was able to check his urine and there is no ketones in it. Is it possible that he doesn't have any ketones today but he might have some tomorrow or after? How often I should check his urine ( if I can).
    Thanks, Susanna
     
  41. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    really his levels are pretty flat - meter variance is 20%.


    I would test every day right now. Usually i recommend whenever the cat is over 340 or twice a week.

    Wendy
     
  42. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Good job on the extra tests - looks like she is constantly high though . However I am thinking you might want to check out the lantus board.That board has lots of very experienced dosing members on it and is a great sense of community.Since you are now up to speed with testing etc I think they will really be able to advise you better on dosing etc. I post there myself every day or two to get their eyes on my cats.

    There is no rush to post there. I like to suggest that people go over to their insulin specific support group and check it out. Read the Stickies at the top of the Topics section. Read a few condos posted by other members. Get a feel for how the forum works. See if you think it would be a good fit for you.

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewforum.php?f=9

    But you are always welcome to post here in the Feline Health forum for as long as you want.
     
  43. Tiger-Hobo

    Tiger-Hobo Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2013
    Thanks Wendy,

    I will check it out, I was think about it too since I still feel hopeless with kangaroo. It sounds /I feel bad - but I hoping for the better - because my husband went back to Europe again ( for a while) and I will see if he feed him with other things during the day, when I was working. Now he will eat what he is getting from me. Anyway, thanks and I definitely will go on and learn more. You know I think all the time -what I am doing wrong.
     
  44. Picknickchick

    Picknickchick Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2013
  45. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Every day is a new experiment with our diabetic kitties, because we cannot predict with 100% accuracy what is going to happen.

    On the average, our best guesses made with what we do know about feline diabetes, glucose, and insulin will help more than harm; there are days, though when things happen we don't detect which will alter the glucose levels up or down, puzzling the sh*t out of us.
     
  46. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    While your husband is away, throw out (or hide) anything that you dont want Kangaroo to eat

    Wendy
     
  47. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Hows things going? He still looks pretty flat - time for 3 units?
    Wendy
     
  48. Wendy&Tiggy(GA)

    Wendy&Tiggy(GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2011
    Remind me what he is being fed??

    Wendy
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page