Update On My Blackie

:-| Well, today we took her to the vet this morning, and her levels were down to 540ish, or something like that. Dr. Brown was onboard with the wet food diet, but wants to keep her on the W/D for a week and see where we are at next Sat, then potentially switch her wet to another brand. She was also ok with the home testing idea, and told me good luck with trying to get blood from her ears. She also said that she could never do the ear thing. She's she, though, and I'm me. Hubby suggested that we wait to get the meter until we can get her levels down to normal and then purchase it. Whatever. (GRRRR)

In the meantime, we had a choice of leaving her at 8 units 2x a day and putting her on the W/D wet, or upping her insulin yet another unit (9 units 2x a day) and keeping her on the dry. We opted to keep her at 8 units 2x a day and try the W/D wet... For now.

And the battle continues....

 

Oh, wow. These are not good choices.

I don't understand why you would wait to get the meter "until you get the bg levels down." How can that happen unless you are aware, day to day, what his levels are and how make adjustments to the insulin as needed. If I were you (and I have been, in your exact place) I would get the meter today, start taking bg levels and then you can have a plan of action. Any chance you can just decide you will be dealing with Blackie's diabetes and let your husband off the hook for decisions?

Have your husband read the FAQs? Has he read about rebound: http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Somogyi_rebound

In your earier post, lots of people expressed concern that your Blackie was on too much insulin and there was no place to go but a crash. You have to be hometesting if you are going to continue with so much insulin.

And I don't understand waiting on the wet food. Nothing has improved so far. What will another week mean? Of course, you cannot change food unless your are testing. Oliver's bg levels came down 100 points overnight when we changed. If we hadn't been testing, and had given him his usual amount, he would have hypoed.

I know it is hard for you and your husband to take the advice of people on the internet over your vet. But I wonder how many cats your vet has been able to get regulated. Everyone here has or had a cat that is off insulin or regulated. This system works, safely. Please consider taking our advice. Y

Sorry to be so blunt but you really have Blackies' life in your hands. I sure hope you can either get your husband on board and go on this journey without him.

 

I agree with everything Sue wrote - she beat me to writing the same!

Believe me when I tell you, that I totally get your feeling of uncertainty about going against vet advice. My now former vet, actually forbade me from home testing. Not only that, she went so far as to say, if I did, then she would not treat Maui or be liable for what would happen.

this is the same vet, who insisted that Maui had to stay in their care for at least one week to "get regulated" AND planned on shooting Lantus in 8 hour increments rather than 12 as is protocol - why you wonder - simple - for convenience sake - their office hours are 8-5 and "because I brought Maui in so late" (9 am), she had no choice but to shoot early, so she could wrap up the day and get to her night job in the ER practice across the street.

I found this board, told them what was going on, and it was the people on here who helped me and guided me and told me what I needed to know, as harsh as it may have been at the time, as lost and desperate as I felt and the fear that if I go against the vet, then what and who will take care of my cats?

Well it really was very simple, you see - I took my cat home, got the basics from this board and started making calls to find a new vet, that understood diabetes and was willing to work with me and follow the board protocol.

Because of this board, Maui is healthy and in remission controlled by diet today.

 

Ditto to what Sue and Hillary said.

I'm sorry to hear that your husband doesn't understand that buying the meter now IS the way to get Blackie's numbers down.

I'll be even more blunt. If you choose to go either route the vet is giving you, you will not ever get Blackie's numbers down. Eventually, the overdose will cause hypoglycemia and you will end up in an emergency situation, or with a dead cat. I'm sorry to make it so black and white, but that's the bottom line.

We can't help you if you won't try what we suggest. You really need to make a choice between allowing the vet to continue to mismanage Blackie's diabetes treatment, or taking control of his treatment yourself. What have you got to lose by trying what has worked for so many people here?

Please, don't just take what we say at face value, click on the links to the spreadsheets in member's signatures. You will see their BG test results over time, dosages, comments on what works and what doesn't. You will see cats that are either regulated, on their way to regulation, or even *GASP* in remission, meaning they were on insulin and are not anymore because their owners' management actually HEALED their cat's pancreas so that it started producing insulin again. It can be done, but not the way your vet is doing it. Again, what have you got to lose?

If it were your husband, child or yourself who had diabetes, would you accept the choice of shooting insulin without testing BG levels? Human diabetics manage their own insulin injections by testing BG levels before shooting, right? They adjust their own insulin dose based on those tests, right? What we are suggesting is not radical, it's common sense.

One more thing: I'm not anti-vet, I love my vet! Vets are like a GP doctor, they have a general knowledge base. They know a little bit about a lot of different medical conditions, but they are not experts in any particular disease. Vets have an even wider base, because they also have to know a little bit about those diseases in different species, too. We only care about one thing here, Feline Diabetes. There is years of knowledge and experience here, all focused on FD. Please take advantage of it, read everything you can and learn as much as you can so you can make good, informed decisions about Blackie's care.

 

Sounds like you have a little battle on your hands! Guess I lucked out not to have a hubby ;-) and to have a vet who is pretty on-board with good diabetes treatment.

I would recommend just taking things into your own hands and following your gut. My sense is that you disagree with the hub & the vet but feel tied to keeping consensus on what to do? Of course I'm not in your shoes & sorry to project onto you what I see, but if I am right, I'd throw out that view personally, since what they are saying just doesn't make sense to me.

Doesn't make sense to wait til #s are under control to get a meter - that's like saying here's a loose screw, so let's not buy a screwdriver to fix it, let's wait til it screws itself in, and then buy the screwdriver. 100% backwards in my view! (Going for a "guy" analogy there that might help the hub understand what he's saying!).

Ditto on waiting a week to see what W/D will do. Unless there are other health problems it is being used for (in which case that is important to be aware of, but likely that there are much better solutions available), all it's going to do is cause more problems.

The choices the vet gave you of either holding steady or raising the dose are IMO not real choices, they make 0 sense to me as good directions to go in.

Here's what I would do in your shoes:

1) Pick some foods off Janet & Binky's charts that are below maybe 8% carbs (I like 4%-ish personally), make a switch over the next few days to LC foods, and at the same time drop the dose down to 1u.

2) Buy Ketostix from the drug store and start testing for ketones (easy and inexpensive).

3) Buy an inexpensive meter (Walmart Relion Micro is one people like a lot, and I think it's under $20 & test strips are cheap too). If you need to, tell the DH (dear husband) that it's a cool electronic gadget, or something like that LOL that might get him on board. Or just ignore him and buy it anyhow. :lol:

4) Call around to some other vets and ask them about how they treat diabetes. Might find a vet you like in the process, and it might also help you be able to evaluate what your vet is saying. This definitely strikes me as something where you might find a second opinion useful.

We are here to help you, so let us know what you need!!!! There are articles we can help you find that explain basic protocols for using insulin, current thinking on what food is best (I think years ago they thought W/D was useful, but that theory has been thrown out for a few years now), what to say to your vet, etc. I don't want to overload you with too much info if that isn't what you need right now, but please know that we all want to help here and will do what we can to help you out!

 

I don't know if you saw it or not, but in your other thread some folks from Texas have posted their locations. If you're within some sort of reasonable driving distance of any of them, they'll be happy to come over and show you how to home-test and answer as many of your questions as they can. Or maybe you could try sending one a PM and exchange phone numbers so y'all can talk in real-time?

(To send a PM, click on a person's name; that'll take you to their profile page. On the profile page, click 'Send private message'.)

 

Where in NTX are you located? What city, please?

~M

 

Mary's contacted me offlist, and I've provided my email address. I'm in Kaufman, TX, just past Terrell. I'm waiting for her to contact me via email.

Thank you for your advice.

Vet told me yesterday morning that getting a monitor would be ok with her. Hubby wants to wait (I could smack him). I can't pay for one as I don't have a job, and right now, I don't drive (that'll soon be changing in the near future). Vet told me that we either raise her insulin to 1 more unit (making it 9 units 2x a day) IF we left her on the Hill's Prescription W/D dry stuff, or leave it at 8 units 2x a day if we choose to put her on the Hill's Prescription W/D wet food. She's now eating the W/D wet (for now), and is remaining on the 8 units 2x a day (for now). I'm still pushing for the lowering insulin issue.

I know I need a monitor, and test strips and lancets. My hands, at the moment, are tied. I'm frustrated, and I'm feeling outnumbered.

 

Well, it may not come for several days, but Cindy and Mousie will send you a free one. Go back to the main Feline Health forum page and look at the titles at the top. Pick the one that says "Request a Starter Hometesting Kit". Cindy will send you a package with a free meter and strips to get you started.

 

There is no way you will get the numbers down or ever know what is going on with the insulin till you hometest. Have your DH read this thread......better yet, have him post.

 

Ah, I understand your predicament better now. I'm sorry, I can be a little dense sometimes. ohmygod_smile

That's great that you are getting in touch with someone locally to help you!

As Sue said, you can get a free hometesting kit.

Regarding getting hubby on board, I would try attacking the cost aspect. ;-) It has to be costing you quite a bit to visit the vet every week and do glucose testing, and you will use up your insulin much faster at the dose you are giving, plus the cost of the prescription food. Add up the $$$ on paper, for some time period, maybe a month. If you were to buy a meter, it would cost you about $15 for a kit with lancets and pen (one time cost on meter and pen, lancets are around $5 for a box of 100), $20 for 50 strips (this is for the ReliOn meter). If you test 5 times a day, you will need about 3 boxes of strips per month...$60+ $7.50 for lancets. (I'm a test fanatic, don't go by my SS! Most people test far less often than I do!) Fancy Feast (a food many people use here) is $0.30 for a 3 oz can, so 2 cans for each one of DM. I use Special Kitty, about half the cost of FF.....not the reason I use it, it just gives Tinkles more stable BG. If you figure you will cut the dose to 2u BID (this is purely a guess), the insulin will cost you about 1/4 as much per month. You will need to visit the vet far less often, maybe monthly, and you will not need to do the glucose testing there anymore. (How often you visit depends on the vet. Mine allows me to adjust dose by phone, and bring Tinkles in "as needed"...she knows I will come in if I need to!) Do the math, and show hubby the cost difference. It is far more economical to home test.

 

Hello;

I have sent you an e-mail and included my phone number in that e-mail, too.
I hope to hear back from you soon.

~M

 

Also until you can hometest, I think it would be better to go to LC food and drop the dose. I don't see the need to wait til you can test to make those changes. Although it's ideal to be able to test, to me 1u BID and LC food is a lot safer than HC and 8u. The LC will even out the spikes compared to HC, and there's less overall insulin to contribute to any hypo risk. Without testing, it just means you need to drop that dose down to 1u with the food change. If you were able to test, instead you might gradually reduce the dose as the #s start dropping rather than jumping right to 1u. You won't be able to fine-tune it like that without testing, but to me a change in the food & dose, even without testing, is the lesser of the evils right now.

Hope the DH comes around soon! I love those arguments about the cost. In the longer run, hometesting is a lot cheaper than vet bills, and you can find LC canned for less $$$ than the script foods. Some cats have done really well on Special Kitty, which is reasonably priced.

 

MY DH wasn't on board either...and even though I do have a 'job', we are presently paying for 2 houses at the moment...in the middle of major relocation due to his job (once I'm relocated, I will not have a job)...so, I contacted some local cat rescue sites...I received the upfront money for GG's first bottle of insulin, a box of 100 syringes, a meter and 100 strips! I'm waiting for my ketone test kit from Cindy and Mouser (are they the right people/cat?) which should be coming any day.

It is doable and like someone else said, having it on paper about how much you will save by hometesting, he'll likely see the point in doing it. And, honeslty, I don't think its all that hard to get blood from the kitties ear...I snuggle with GG and massage her for a few minutes (I prepare and have everything in arms reach) and I rub her little ears...then *prick* and a drop of blood appears, I test, I shoot...she and the civvies get treats! Everyone is happy.

I'm sure your hubby will come around...keep pushing for it. I simply stopped talking to mine about it and went onword doing what I needed to do for GG.

Peace,

 

I will be visiting Angela and Blackie tomorrow to teach her how to home test Blackie and how to maintain a BGL log.
I will be taking the following to leave with them:
1 box and 2 packages of u100 syringes (120 syringes)
2 packages of u40 syringes (20 syringes)
1 box of ketodaistix, (for checking ketone levels in the urine)
1 box of 33 gauge lancets (100 per box)
1 box of 30 gauge lancets (100 per box)
a dozen or so 25 gauge lancets
1 rice sock
a few cans of low carb Fancy Feast
1 can of low carb pets pride canned cat food
1 can of **HIGH CARB** canned Friskies cat food (to go into the hypo toolbox)
a TRUEtrack meter with several boxes of strips and a meter pouch

I am sure we will all get everything sorted out and be able to help Angela and Blackie here on the board
with any questions that she may have once Angela knows how to home test

Is there anything else that y'all can think of that I should include in the care basket?

~M

 

First off, thanks for doing this; I've been concerned over Blackie's dosing and am delighted that hometsting seems to be possible here. :happy:

The list looks good to me; about the only thing I can think to add would be if you had a spare oral syringe or eyedropper, for the hypo kit. I know I ended up with a tonne of them over the years, but I also know that folks just starting out might not have one lying about. (And, for me, it was easier to squirt the contents of the syringe into the mouth than trying to rub stuff on the gums.) Anyway, if you have a spare, that'd be great; otherwise, the list looks really good to me!

Thanks again for helping Blackie and Angela out --

Jean and her Gwyn

 

Mary,

I can't think of a thing to add, but I do want to thank you for helping Angela out! I'll feel so much better when she can start home testing, and I'm sure she will too! Yay!

Angela,

I can't wait to see your home testing results! I'm sure Mary will have you pokin' like a pro in no time!

 

That's awesome Mary. It's so great to know that there are cat people out there willing to do what it takes to help another bean with a feline! Fantastic. I'm so glad I found this site!

I only hope that one day I can help someone too.

I also can't wait to see how Blackie is doing with Angela doing hometesting!!!


yay!!!