Urgent help needed!

Earlier this afternoon my cat began continually sniffing around different areas of the house and outside. At 5pm (I'm in the UK) my father did as advised on a previous occasion when he seemed to be staring and leaning but without the constant sniffing and put a bit of honey on his lips. He felt he saw an improvement after doing so but the strange behaviour soon returned and became more pronounced over the next 2 hours or so.

Our concerns grew as he was seen trying to paw his way through a door corner repeatedly. Then we became alarmed as he staggered a couple of times and struggled to sit on my lap. My sister sitting opposite was extremely worried as she clearly saw a glassy vacant appearance in his eyes. Vets advised to take him straight down for a blood glucose test, which he had plus his heart was checked and all his vital functions as well. All physical tests revealed nothing - except one - he did not respond to items waved before his face - in short, he gave no sign of recognising any thing there.
The vets, who know him well, seemed baffled. They gave him his usual evening insulin jab (3 units) and he was also given penecillin and antibiotic treatments whilst there. They recommended he came home tonight and be closely monitored and not allowed outside. Further to this,my parents were advised to take him straight back at 8am tomorrow should matters not improve considerably by then.
Upon his return, he instantly resumed his constant and extensive sniffing through the majority of our house. Very unusually, when my sister picked him up, he did not purr at all and seemed unresponsive in general compared with his normal highly evident pleasure when having such attention.
My father confirmed quietly to my sister that it's as though he's not seeing - my sister replied that he's blind or seemingly unale to process any optical information. She also said that sometimes she knows more than what's good for her & privately told me that she believes there to a link with diabetes and eyesight. She didn't elaborate and said she was quite likely to be wrong anyway.
We are all out of minds with worry and I'll stay up with him through the night until my Father gets up in the morning. The vet told my Father that if he needed to be brought in at 8am he will be able to then phone at 10am for an update.
Finally, Charlie is 10 years 6months old. He's recently seemed to be a great state of health, with glossy fur and like his old cheeky self. He was diagnosed in June or July of 2009 and has received fortnightly monitoring at his vets until mid Dec 09 when they were very pleased with him and gave him a month between then and next visit. On that next (most recent - last week) visit they said he was excellent and gave another 4 week period between visits. During these recent times his recommended insulin dosage stayed at 2 lots of 3 units per day,12 hours apart.
I would so appreciate any comments, support, information that anyone would be kind enough to give - I need to know whatever's best to ensure his happiness and wellbeing throughout what is going to be a very long and horrible night. Please help if you can - I would appreciate it so much and thank all who are able to offer me some assistance/support in advance.

 

What was his BG at the vets ...

These COULD be symptoms of hypoglycemia.

Is the owner able to home-test with a human BG meter.

Blindness CAN result from insulin overdose.

If he is blind, he is trying to find his way around by scent and other clues.
I would not let him outside.

I'm very concerned that 3units was given without knowing what the kittie's
BG is.

Treatment of hypoglycemia requires more than just a little honey on the lips.

Honey can raise the BG quickly, but it also wears off quickly...the cat MUST eat
some high-carb dry food or canned food.

Without more information ... real data from the vet or your own home BG testing,
it is hard to know what is going on.

 

what was his bg test before the vet gave him the insulin?

When was the last time he got insulin today before the vets?

 

Here is info on symptoms and treatment for hypo: http://www.felinediabetes.com/hypogly.htm

As others have said, you can learn alot about what might be wrong by hometesting now. If I were you, I would go get a meter and strips and test his blood glucose level. Here is a video that shows you how: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8 Often a cat is stressed at the vet, his bg levels can be abnormally high. Then the insulin prescribed based on those numbers will be too much insulin once the cat is home and not stressed.

 

Thanks for the replies. My father took him down the vets but it's difficult to get info from him and he says all we can do is go by the vets advice, which is understandable as he doesn't use the internet.
All I know is he was checked out down the vets and as far as I know his BG level was ok and he hasn't had an insulin overdose. My father seems very good at injecting him with insulin and he's sure his injection went well as normal. The vet told us to give him the 3 units and we aren't home testing as we've gone by the vets advice and taken him in when they say for testing etc. He had his usual insulin dose about 9.00 this morning and the vet gave him his dose about 7.00. I can't home test him because firstly I don't know how and secondly I haven't got the equipment as far as I know. Again, we've just gone by the advice from the vet. Can blindness be temporary?


EDIT - I went to look at the Youtube video about home testing but it just comes up as page not displayed. To be honest I'm not confident about doing home testing anyway.

 

Please learn to test Blood Sugar at home immediately. A human glucometer from any pharmacy will work - choose one that needs a tiny amount of blood (0.3 or 0.5 microliter), and is "approved for alternate site testing" or has "sipping action test strips". Since we recommend testing before every insulin injection, also consider the cost of the test strips.

These symptoms sound like HYPOglycemia -- low blood sugar -- which can cause confusion, staggering, blindness, seizures, coma and death.

The most common cause of Hypoglycemia is Excess Insulin (overdose).

Another cause is unusual levels of activity / exercise (burns sugar) or not eating the normal amount or type of food (or puking).

If the blindness is from HYPO, it may be temporary. Diabetic cats can also develop cataracts, but this is usually over years of poor glucose control -- not an overnight, sudden change.

Edited to add: The link to the You Tube video works for me, so you may need to check your settings or access.

 

It's understandable to be uncomfortable about home testing - it's not something we learn overnite, it takes, patience, practice and your own understanding that it is one of the best things you can do to keep your cat safe.

but - please try, for the safety of your cat.

 

Thanks Phoebe. The Youtube page now comes up but it's taking absolutely ages to load (these things never agree with my pc). I'll see if I can watch it. I don't know if there's any pharmacies open now anyway as it's late at night here. The only shops that are open near me at this time are petrol stations or 24hr supermarkets so I'm not sure whether they'd have the devices anyway. I'm in a dilemma but the vet must have thought he'd be ok as he let him come home for the night. He was being fussy with his food last night (Tuesday night) and he didn't eat a lot but my father says he ate earlier on today and he had some chicken (from a pie) about 6.30.

 

One thing you might say to your father is that he would never just give you insulin without checking your blood glucose levels first. He wouldn't just take you to the doctor once a week to have them checked. It is the same with cats. You can't depend on the numbers staying in the same range.

 

You really need to hometest. When my late diabetic did that sniffing thing I immediately knew she was going hypo. They also act like they cannot see....almost as if they are in another world....no reaction at all. I would definitely watch kitty closely and wouldn't hurt to rub some honey on the gums if this continues. You would rub the honey till the cat starts reacting to you, seeing, acting normal. Hometesting truly is very easy and the most important thing a diabetic cat owner can do.

 

Jon, one of the things we see is that over time the insulin needs of your kitty will change. The best thing you can do for Charlie is to learn to test his blood glucose. That way you will be able to administer an appropriate amount of insulin that will help keep him safe and healthy.

When my Indy was first diagnosed as diabetic I was terrified and wondered how in the world was I ever going to be able to stick anything sharp into him. It sounds like your Dad has conquered what I considered the hardest part of treating Indy - giving the insulin shots. The home testing is VERY easy. You test the cat's ear, near the outside edge. I found the closer to the top of the ear, the easier it was. Here is an excerpt from something I posted to someone else:

I know first hand how scared you are about all the "poking". My hands wouldn't stop shaking the first time I tried to test Indy. What I have found to work is:
1) using a lancet "pen". It actually does the sticking for you and you can set it for the amount of force needed to get his ear to bleed. ( I was WAY to chicken to have to actually do the sticking myself.)
2) I put a tissue or paper towel behind the place on his ear that I am going to test. Then, I FIRMLY press the pen against his ear and push the trigger button. This way his ear doesn't move away from the point of the lancet when it is trying to go in his ear.
3) Then, I massage his ear below where I poked him to get the blood to flow. Sometimes it takes a while and sometimes at first I can't even see where he was poked, but after a few seconds of massaging the blood drop appears.
4) I re-use my lancets. My husband made the observation that when the lancet has been used before it must get a little dull and makes a bigger hole, so he bleeds more. I usually only change the lancet every 4 or so uses.
5) Remember that this WILL get easier with time. You will get more comfortable with the process and Sasha will get more comfortable with being poked. And once he starts feeling better he will thank you for having poked him. :mrgreen:

We use a One Touch Ultra human blood glucose meter. The test strips are pretty expensive though. Not sure what brands you have in the UK.

There is a lot of information on the internet regarding home testing for cats. Maybe you can do some research to see what brand of meter is sold where you are that will work.

Also, if you go to the main FDMB page the third section down is titled Health Links - there you will find a post titled "Home testing links & tips." There is a lot of useful information there. I would also suggest looking around the different sections of this site. There is so much invaluable information to be found here. Also, the people who frequent this message board are a wealth of knowledge and experience. They can help you and your Dad along the path to making Charlie's life the best it can be.

 

Hi from Canada

UK vets are notorious for not supporting hometesting....there was a group set up with codenames for diabetic cats in the UK lol!

I'm rather peeved at your vet; your cat displays all signs of hypoglycemia and yet they give him another full dose of insulin! Your poor boy really needs you guys to test his levels at home just like humans do. I'm sure it will be hard to convince your dad of this, but over here in Canada our Canadian Veterinary Association supports hometesting, we've vets all over who now teach their clients to test, etc. etc. etc.

Let us know what we can do to help. We have a strong UK contingent who may be able to help.

Jen

 

Please.... find a different vet...

Please .... buy a blood glucose monitor that uses 'sipping' test strips.

Please .... test your cat prior to ever giving insulin.... Any number under 200 don't give insuline.

Please.... drop dose to 1 unit or less based on the BG level at test.

Please ... don't give injection until cat has eaten.

Please... My Charlie was 12 when diagnosed... He died this past year at 18 1/2 from a blood clot in his brain. He had spent his day running and playing and enjoying his life....

 

Hi Jon. Agreeing with all that has been said but meanwhile.
Please give more food than normal
If this is hypo, and it sure sounds like it is, your cat needs food and honey combined to bring the levels up and keep them up.

Many feedings for the hours to come, across the duration of the insulin and I can not encourage you enough to not give the same dose until you can get a hometest done. Please lower dose and test for ketones and then figure out if the insulin needs have changed.
Unless ketones are present right now, it is better to be a little high for a couple of days, than too low for a minute.

What kind of insulin are guys using?

Glad you made it to us. It is hard to go against what a vet has said to do, I understand, but hypo is deadly and you have the chance to turn this around for your cat to come out okay right now.

Please keep us posted.

 

Any updates Jon?


Welcome to our FDMB family and be patient with yourself. You sound like you really love your cats, so you have come to the perfect place. Get some chocolate, sit back and get ready to read. Also, remember Every Cat Is Different. (ECID) Also, remember opinions may vary sometimes on this board, so you may get different views. Unfortunately, that is human nature.
Sorry this is very long, but there is a lot to say! Also, remember we were ALL newbies once and are feeling just like you are right now! OK……..breathe………. :RAHCAT

This disease is very manageable and by no means a death sentence. There is just some learning we all had to do. You do not need any type of prescription food or “special” diabetic food. Janet & Binky’s chart is on the top of this page! Low carb is best for diabetics. I try to stay around 10% or under. I feed Whiskas, 9-Lives and mostly Friskies. If you are giving a high dose of insulin and feeding dry, be careful with switching to canned food. You MUST reduce the insulin at the same time you switch to canned food.

Please create a profile if you have not already done so. It will help us to help you. We need to know what kind of insulin you are on, what needles you are using (U-40 or U-100), what are you feeding, how much insulin you are giving and when, BG test results, etc. There are many people on this board from all over the world, so it will be helpful to know what area and time zone you are in.

Remember that your cat is YOUR cat, and YOU are paying your VET to help you take care of him; diabetes was probably a day or two worth of notes when the vet was in college; it is probably NOT a day-to-day existence with his own cat trying to maintain a quality of life. Sorry to say, but I would have overdosed my guys on insulin if I followed my vet's advice. Vets, unfortunately are not as knowledgeable as they should be on diabetes.

Sometimes, as I did, you have to take a leap of faith and trust these people on this board who deal with diabetes day in and day out. Trust me. You will not be disappointed. OK………..breathe again……….get some chocolate…….. cat_pet_icon

Also, please realize that it takes insulin about a week to settle. START LOW AND GO SLOW!! The usual starting dose from our experiences is 1u twice a day for at least a week. Insulin in cats is NOT and I repeat NOT based on weight. This is a misconception that a lot of us have gotten from our vets here. pc_work

You have to be patient, as I also had to learn!! Do not adjust the dose upwards based on one test. Don’t freak out based on one test result. As long as the levels stay on the high side, keep the same dose twice a day for at least the initial week period and you should see improvements. When you have some time (hee hee), read my profile.

If you are not hometesting already, you really need to start!! Hometesting is VERY important. Think of it as a human diabetic does. *If it were you or a child of yours, you'd be testing blood glucose levels at home prior to each shot; you'd be working with your doctor to determine a proper dose based on those shot results, correct?* Some vets do not agree with hometesting and I cannot for the life of me understand why. Most vets, sadly are not knowledgeable enough in feline diabetes. Insulin is a VERY powerful drug and you NEED to hometest before giving a shot. This is very important. The vet would rather have you bring the cat to them, stress it out more, which may spike the levels anyway and then they can charge you $$. Hometesting saved me a lot of money and it is VERY important for you personally to know the cat’s levels and how it is reacting to the insulin before you shoot so you do not pass up your ideal dosage.
Thanks to everyone's help here I learned to home test 2 cats and they both got off insulin within 3 weeks with diet change…but of course, they reacting both DIFFERENTLY with the process. If I can do it with 2 cats twice a day (and more on curve days), ANYONE can do it. It does NOT hurt them as much as you think it does. It just stings for a moment and then it is gone, you can try it on yourself. Also, put pressure on the ear after poking and it should minimize the nub. They won't mind it once they start feeling better. I use the True Track meter (CVS or Walgreens brand) which I love. And, the strips are also reasonable. Also, remember to give them a treat after the test. Here is a link to a member videos on hometesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zE12-4fVn8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ6iXetR398

I would not feed DRY food if at all possible. Of course, it is better than nothing – you MUST get them to eat if you are giving insulin, but if there is any chance, get them off the dry. I took my guys off dry and within a month they were off insulin. Again, remember that switching from dry to wet can cause a drop in blood sugars, so you MUST reduce insulin at the same time to make sure you are not giving too much insulin. I truly believe also that I saved some of my many others from developing diabetes. I also saved so, so much money changing them all to regular canned cat food.
When Blackie and Jackie got diagnosed, I was afraid to start shots. The people on this board made me realize it was no big deal. (They went on PZI insulin around 3-25-06 and went off on 4-18-06! Please also realize that diet plays a BIG, BIG part in insulin needs. I switched my cats off dry food to all wet and I was never so happy. It was a challenge to try to regulate 2 cats at once.


Welcome to the Sugar Dance. flip_cat
Welcome to the Vampire Club.

If I can do it, ANYONE can!!!
It does get easier. Trust us.

You need to test BEFORE you shoot. It usually goes: Test, Feed, Shoot



There's a saying something like "better the sugar level is too high for a day than too low for a minute".

 

Re: Urgent help needed!Hullo from Hastings UK

Hullo.

Whereabouts are you?

If there is a member near you they might come and help you with b/g testing.
Cats Protection also have a list of diabetic carers, there might be one near you who can help.
I will PM you with my phone number where I can be reached most afternoons or evenings.

Get your father to buy some GLUCOSE powder, you can rub it on the gums or drip in a solution, and it is absorbed faster than honey.

Diabetes CAN be managed. We are two oldies, but my husband even overcame needle phobia to give Jazz Cat his jab when I was in hospital.

Try to get some Keto-diastics so you can test Charlies urine for the dreaded ketones

Ketones usually appear with HYPER(high)GLYCEMIA which needs urgent vet treatment

What is Charlie eating?

AVOID dry food (even if prescribed by vets!) Ideally a cat needs a meat diet with less than 10% carbohydrates. Think mouse, that comes in at 4%
The best tinned foods are those in jelly which are the lowest in carbs. Dry food is often 50% carbs!

Look on Ebay for glucometers and strips they are far cheaper there!

Hope this helps

Mary

 

Re: Urgent help needed! Greetings from Essex!

Please give ma call Jon. I have sent my number to you through personal message.

If I'm close by I would be happy to help you with hometesting. If not, I should be able to put you in direct contact with a UK member who is nearby.

Please keep us updated

 

Can the moderators check to see if he has an email address?

 

I'm getting worried, anyone hear?

I hope his kitty is ok confused_cat

 

has anyone heard anything yet??????????

 

He is in the UK, so it is late evening.

 

Re: Urgent help needed! Simon,

I sent my tel number, but no contact yet
Mary

 

As a moderator, I have access to Jon's email addy. I emailed him, asking him to check his PMs for UK phone numbers and hoping that he would check in on the board.

I am taking the 911 off this post.

Venita

 

Nothing yet on this guy huh?

nailbite_smile nailbite_smile nailbite_smile

 

Jon

I am in South Wales near SWansea if I can help. Mary has my phone number if you talk to her.

Home testing blodd sugar is quite easy and you can everything you need from Boots and we can talk you through it.

My "work " e mail is sally AT rspca-llysnini DOT org DOT uk

Sally and crew


~~edited by moderator to disguise email.

 

Anyone hear anything yet on these guys? nailbite_smile