? Very unhappy! !!

I finally saw major improvement in Riley and felt he was as close to getting back to normal as I had last seen him way back in July. Well, tonight my husband walked away and left his plate on the bar and Riley happened to see it and managed to lick a portion of the syrup left on the plate. I tested him an hour later and he was in the 400's and I gave him 2 units. Now, three hours later he is hi and has reverted back to his troubled self, howling and wandering the house. I am beside myself as I have been in this battle alone with very little help from my husband except for the three days he made a bloody mess out of Riley's ears and then completely absolved himself of any further involvement. I am really upset right now. I don't want Riley to go through hi numbers again because of someone else's carelessness. If he is hi tomorrow morning should I go up to 2.5 units or hold the dose at 2 for a couple more cycles? I have read posts that a cat went totally out of remission because of something like this. Will we be starting over on this long journey or can I fast track him to lower numbers? I will be going to bed shortly and will get back with everyone tomorrow. Thank you.

 

Here is you last post here http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/unbelievable.171945/#post-1880789
In which Riley earned a reduction down to 1.75 units. Why did you increase back up?

The syrup carbs will wear off soon. Do not increase the dose. In fact, you should go back to 1.75 units.

 

Sorry for the frustration!! Someone better qualified than I will chime in and give some dose advice, but try not to be mad, as it won't help! I always calm myself down by reminding myself that I will only upset the kitties. I also am doing this dance with my kitty pretty much without support from my sig other. It is very frustrating, and I understand. Too bad that he was careless, but what's done is done. If it was syrup, the effects should wear off in a while. Maybe if you test again in an hour or two you will see lower numbers. Hang in there!!

 

I'm doing this alone, I understand your frustration.
As Wendy and Taffysmama said, Riley's BG will come down from the syrup.
You can't try to fast track him to lower numbers, it has to be done methodically.
Hang in there and do the best you can, don't forget to enjoy Riley and give him lots of love!

 

OK, I have more time to type now. Lantus dosing is based on how low it takes the kitty. Since you are feeding dry food, you are following SLGS for dosing guidelines, and Riley went below 90 on the 2 unit dose, so earned a reduction to 1.75 units. But because he wasn't used to those lower green numbers, his body started bouncing - which causes temporary higher numbers. He will get over it, it can take up to six cycles for the bounce to stop. So you need to be patient and wait for the numbers to come back down on their own. You didn't give the 1.75 units much of a chance. And without getting mid cycle checks when he was getting 1.75 units, you don't know how low it was taking Riley, or whether it was a good dose for him. He just proved that 2.0 units was too much insulin.

I know our kitties don't feel good in those high numbers. My husband once left out some bread starter and Neko ate some and zoomed up over 500! But within 24 hours she was back to green. You need to be patient. Riley will come down from his syrup feast. This is a marathon, not a sprint.

 

Try to forgive your husband. I know you are tired and frustrated and this whole situation is overwhelming. I don't know him, but it sounds like he might be a little jealous of the time and attention you are having to give to your kitty.

This has not ruined everything you've worked for. It's a small setback. We all have them. Hang in there. Vent to us all you want. We understand.

 

It was an accident.... The high numbers are temporary.... It will come down. There will be lots of little setbacks along the way. This is minor. ((Hugs))

 

Thanks to all of you for your kind words. You are so right , I am just plain tired and want my cat back to normal. He is at 530 this morning down from hi last night. By way of explanation on the dose increase from 1.75 to 2, my notes from the SLGS method say if a decrease doesn't work, no need to hold the dose for a set number of cycles, go back up to the next highest dose that produced those nice numbers. I saw Riley trending upward so I increased based on that. So, now you all think I should decrease back down to 1.75. It's confusing but I am learning. I thought I was doing the right thing but you think the dose increase as well as the syrup is the cause of the higher numbers? Again, thanks all for your support and advice.

 

I reduced the dose this morning to 1.75. Riley’s preshot number was down from 530 an hour and a half before to 487 when I shot. The bad news is he howled all night long and this morning pooped in the litter box but peed all over the utility room floor. The rug is in the bathtub soaking as I speak and the utility room floor has been cleaned and sprayed with an amazing product I have used that totally eliminates both the cat urine and the smell. It is called Scoe-10X. You can get it off the internet. It dilutes 8 to 1 in tepid water. It has saved my life as Riley pees as much as a human and to clean up after him is a chore. I bought the bottle with the carpet injection needle as well. A spray bottle comes with the purchase. It also gets rid of skunk spray. It's well worth keeping a bottle around.

My next question is have any of you experienced this type of behavior associated with the diabetes. My husband says that Riley is just being vindictive because he didn't get his way last night when he was howling and demanding to be let outside and then coming into our room and demanding that we get up. I am at my wit's end. I know Riley is sick, my husband knows Riley is sick, but this is wearing me down. Every single morning or evening coming home from work I spend a half hour or more cleaning the floors and in a situation like this several hours. Today my husband said that it may be time to throw in the towel, that he is tired of seeing me down on my hands and knees cleaning up all the time and that we both need to get some sleep. Do any of you have any suggestions? I am exhausted and it is affecting my other responsibilities outside of my home. Please advise.

 

When's the last time you checked Riley's urine for a possible infection? Cats just do not do "vindictive"; however, they do reacted to stress and if they are upset they can urinate inappropriately - it's one of the few ways they know how to tell us something really wrong. However, I would not jump to a "behavioral" conclusion without first testing/culturing his urine, doing bloodwork, and overall ruling out anything physical.

 

Syrup! Oh my. Yes, a temporary set back but not a reason to adjust the dose up. Cheri, I am glad that you reduced his dose back to 1.75 as Lantus need consistency and to be adjusted systematically . Try not to react to the higher numbers and remember that Lantus is dosed by how low the nadir number is not by how high the pre shot number is. The carb load from the syrup will pass and he will come back down. Deep breath. And let's look at the bright side: you know now that he likes syrup and it can be a "go to" if you need to steer him up from really low numbers. But just a few drops.

About the peeing, I just saw Amy's post and that is a good point to rule out some sort of infection or stones. When Bubba was first DX with diabetes, he did a few outside the box pees which is pretty typical in cats with diabetes until they get more controlled.

Try to make peace with DH and get him on your team as having another bean to help is very nice. The tension and frustration doesn't help anyone or Riley. Sending hugs

Oh, and takes for the product name for the urine, I will save it in case I need it.

 

I agree with Amy. Also my sister's cat was diabetic and often pred where she shouldn't. She didn't test at home and just took her for curves. When normal the vet would stop insulin. I think she was never really regulated. Some cats feel bad when in higher numbers and have lb behavior issues. If a UTI once treated the numbers may come way down.

 

Understood. I tried to get a ketones test but he was too quick for me. The last test, he was normal. However, I am going to start him on a ten day course of Amoxicillan today just in case he has a UTI. I saw him licking down there and, I apologize, but I cannot afford to keep running him to the vet. Financially, I am tapped out and plan on taking him in early Spring. Meantime, I dumped the litter box and am trying Dr.Etsey's Cat Attract litter instead of the chicken crumble which I loved!!

 

Try a puppy training pad just outside of the litter box. It may save you from an annoying cleanup.

 

Just want to clarify. What you quoted was under the TR protocol, not SLGS. On Start Low Go Slow you reduce the dose when Riley goes under 90 and you hold that dose for 7 days unless he earns another reduction by going under 90 again.

We can help be your "brain" in regards to dosing. It's best just to post and ask for dose advise because it is confusing and we're here to help.

 

Does Riley squat outside of the box to pee or is your kitty in the box and overshoots the edge? Gabby would do the latter and it was likely a result of arthritis. There are supplements (e.g., Cosequin) that may help with arthritis and if Riley has sterile cystitis it can help with that, as well. I also would use puppy pee pads under and around the box. You may want to consider a few other things: if you are using a box with a lid, get rid of the lid. It traps odors and that may be a reason Riley is peeing outside of the box. If you have only one box, the rule of thumb is 1.5 boxes per cat. Get a second box. Some cats don't like to pee and poop in the same box. Some cats are also more fastidious than others. You may need to scoop multiple times per day if you're not already doing so.

FWIW, I managed Gabby's FD by myself for 6.5 years. It is definitely easier if you have someone who can help out but it is also manageable as a solo caregiver. Maybe your husband can take over some of your usual chores so you have more time and energy to care for Riley.

 

I managed Max alone for three years but I wasn't working.

 

Cherie, regarding the howling, could it be that Riley is hungry? Unregulated cats are always hungry. @Kathy and TiTi had the same problem and solved it with a timed feeder.

I also recommend pee pads. They saved me a lot of work during Cinco's last months.

 

Hi everybody. I checked my notes and yes they were from the TR not SLGS so thanks for clarifying. He was at 79 four hours after I reduced his shot to 1.75 so....yeah!!!!

Riley is very spoiled and we have definitely given him special treatment because of this disease. We have often said he is more like a four year old boy inside cat fur because he has never acted like a cat or a dog. When he was well he would wrap his arms around my husband's neck and press his face hard against his cheek. At night, he would sleep with his arms wrapped around my husband's arms. If my husband was on the computer Riley was laying next to the computer and it looked like he was reading along with my husband. If my husband went into the bathroom Riley would sit with his head pressed into the corner until he came out. He is just an unusual cat. But all that has changed with this disease. Our happy boy is gone. I only believe we will someday get him back because you all believe that more than I do and I am learning to trust your judgement.

I have three cats and three litter boxes. Two are covered and used by each female and are located in each guest bedroom (removed of course when we have company). They do not venture into each other's litter boxes which I know is hard to believe but I know each of my cat's pee and poop patterns. The big, uncovered litter box is Riley's. He peed twice about 6 feet away from the litter box itself. Before that, he peed on my boot tray about two feet away. When he was tracking in the 500's and higher in November he peed several times all over my sunroom and in August before he was diagnosed he peed several times on my beautiful white carpet by my sliding glass door. I will try the puppy pads for the area outside the litter box to see if it helps with the mess. I loved the chicken crumble and he seemed to take to it right away. No dust to inhale and no crusty litter to clean from between his toes but then suddenly he would only poop in it and was going to another box to pee. So, I switched back to the sand litter and now I just spent three hours cleaning the whole utility room, the rugs, his litter box and have replaced his litter entirely with 'Cat Attract' litter which is the same consistency as the Fresh Step Scoop but 99% dust free. I also started him on 1.5 ml x 2 of Amoxicillan for UTI. Hopefully, that's what Riley was trying to tell me when he peed up the utility room.

 

Sorry. ..didn't answer the food question. I leave plenty of wet down in all three bowls before I go to bed and there is plenty of Young Again zero carb dry in three more bowls. I have three separate feeding stations each with a bowl of wet and separate bowl of dry.

At first, we thought that he was just frustrated because he couldn't climb up on the bed but he just jumps down when we put him on the bed so the only thing we can figure out is that he doesn't like us sleeping when he is up.

 

Cherie you can do this and it will go better if you don't "expect" help from hubby. Lots of us do this alone. In my case I am on my 3rd cat alone surrounded by people. However the folks around you need rules. My rules no eating without dishes being put in the sink. Do not feed my cats anything I don't give them. I have been through what you are going thru. Be kind and remind if you have to. Syrup is something we give cats when they go really low and it lasts long enough to bring their numbers up. It did exactly that and has come back down. You are all good and his behavior should go back to normal including litter box. Give him another 24 hrs to sort it out. It's kind of like a hangover day for him. Tomorrow he will be stable. I know this because I have been through this food thing a lot before the rules came in.

 

That's great that Riley is getting over his syrup hangover so fast. But I would feed him a little bit of low carb food and check his blood sugar again within the hour. He was coming down very fast and we don't want him to go too low.

I am glad you reduced. Could I ask a favour of you to update the spreadsheet. I want to see that green in there.

 

Sorry, just updated and he went down from 400's to 79 to 52. I will test again in 30 minutes and post. Right now he is following my husband around but you are right that he looks like he is having a hangover day.

 

I would give him a couple tsp of food. He's getting very close to the danger zone of below 50 so we don't want him any lower. This is probably the depot from the 2.0 unit dose that is taking him so low. But depending on how the rest of the cycle goes, he may need to be reduced down to 1.5 units. On SLGS, you are to reduce when they go below 90 on any given dose.

 

Wow, glad you were able to keep an eye on Riley today. They gotta be feeling pretty weird to have their BG's swinging around so much. I know Uncle definitely does. Also, wasn't surprised to read that he was crying and howling when in those high numbers. Uncle has done that too. It's heartbreaking and extremely stressful. I had to remind myself it was going to be temporary, but I know it is still hard to deal with.
Glad to see he's back in green!

 

Wow, that's a big and fast drop from AMPS to +4. Don't be surprised if he bounces from that one.
I agree with Wendy that he may need to go to 1.5.

I also don't recommend the covered boxes because of the smells that accumulate inside them and the cats then not wanting to use them. Are you sure one of your girls aren't now using his and kicking him out? My kitty had arthritis and as he got older (over 18) would often get into his box and pee over the edge, and sometimes only put his front two feet in the litter and pee in front of the box, so I used puppy pee pads around his litter box. I used Nature's Miracle Advanced Formula with excellent results. I did a lot of clean up with love for my cat.

It sounds like Riley likes your husband a lot. It's very cute. Hopefully, as his BGs get more under control, his accidents will lessen. Fingers crossed.

 

Everyone else pretty well covered all the suggestions I would have other than to share an observation...Dakota pees near the litterbox rather than in it when his numbers are high. I can't find a reason in nearing 4 years.

I too do this alone - hubby handles as much as he can but anything 'medical' is my dept with any of our animals whether they be ours or fosters. My hubby's left his syrupy plate on his TV tray too, I'm just lucky Dakota didn't find it...

HUGS! Those always help...

 

Any update?

 

Yes, this is the update. Just tested. He is at 64, an hour and a half ago he was at 66 and less than three hours before that he was at 52, Six hours ago at 79 and 12 hours ago 487.

So I will reduce to 1.5 at shot time as this will be the last test before his shot. I am going to dinner at the neighbors but will put some higher carb food down before I go.

Thanks to all.