Vicky, Is Gandalf sick?

Discussion in 'Lantus / Levemir / Biosimilars' started by Peggy and Mickey (GA), Aug 30, 2011.

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  1. Peggy and Mickey (GA)

    Peggy and Mickey (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I saw in another post you had a sick cat. Gandalf? Well, whomever it is, hope they feel better :YMHUG:
     
  2. Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin

    Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Peggy. Yes, it's Gandalf. We still have no answer about his seizures, I witnessed 2 more the other week and he may have had another Monday night. I'm waiting on one more blood test result, but his bile acids tests came back normal, so it's probably not his liver. He's not eating, is constipated and I've been giving him Salmon Oil suggested by the vet and it makes nasty poo, what little he has, and he gets it all over him because he can't posture in the box well anymore due to his arthritis. Last week after I first gave him the oil he fell over in the box, but at least he got some of the stool out. They Xray'd and said though he has a lot of stool, he's not impacted, which is what I feared. I don't want to put him through an enema.

    We have acupuncture today, so I'll see what that vet says. The other vet recommended a stool softener so I think I will try that. I did the Salmon Oil first because I had that on hand. I just want him to not have diarrhea because he hates having to be cleaned up.

    He just lays in a little corner and seems miserable. He responds positively to me, but then I have to clean him up and he gets mad.
     
  3. nancy and payne

    nancy and payne Well-Known Member

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    Hi Vicky, I think I posted when you first started seeing Gandalf having a seizure, I'm sorry he is still having them .... at the time I told you about my beautiful Cher cat (don't ask) who started having seizures later in her life.

    Her seizures got so bad that she would bite her side until she bled, or my finger in the beginning, if it got in the way ..... many stitches. We did every test, tried every possible thing until she got a shot of pred. I don't know if you have tried that? but it worked for Cher's seizures for six years. As long as she got a shot every six weeks she was fine .... six weeks + one day= seizures, made no sense but it worked.

    I know you are doing everything possible, you are a really great bean! Also, not pushing pred. but my Payne has some underlying problem under her diabetes, (CP we know) but she throws off ketones at the drop of a hat and is very complex to keep even .... as long as she gets 5mg. pred a day, I can manage her, less and her #'s hit the roof.

    Of course, it could be I just have really crazy animals! :roll: Sending healing prayers and vines to you both.
     
  4. Peggy and Mickey (GA)

    Peggy and Mickey (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Oh no poor Gandalf.
    I so hope he feels better soon. Let us know what the actupuncturist says. :YMHUG:
    What type of stool softener did they give you? I know lactulose is not ideal for diabetic cats but my Thomas takes it(non diabetic) It is the only thing that keeps him going.
    Do you have a pair of clippers? I give Mickey a hygenic shave. Zippo right up his rear. Makes clean up easier.
     
  5. pamela and tigger

    pamela and tigger Well-Known Member

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    Oh Vicky, I am sorry to hear he is still not feeling well. Yes, let us know what the accu vet says. Have you tried Gerber's baby food? I have been giving that to Tigger lately for his snack since he is turning up his nose at his cooked chicken snack - no other ingredients in it except chicken/chicken broth (or turkey). Sending good eating and healing vibes for Gandalf.
     
  6. Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin

    Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Hi gals, thank you to everyone for the well wishes.

    The acu vet said to get docusate, 50mg capsules which are like Vitamin E capsules, not the kind you can open. I did and gave him one, which he promptly puked up an hour later. I also picked up some organic pumpkin, which Sheila had suggested and vet said was fine as well. We thought it best to try the docusate first, but since he puked it up, not sure I want to try it again. He clearly did not feel well after I gave it to him. His puke was also foamy from it too, so I wonder if it caused that in his stomach. He only had Pepcid at least 4 hours earlier.

    Only good thing is that his BG at +7 was 84. Small miracle.

    His ammonia test came back normal, so we are probably looking at some type of intercranial tumor causing the seizures. I have not spoken to our other vet to see if we want to start him on seizure med. I am loathe to use a steroid unless we have due cause, such as an increase in symptoms. I understand that steroids can add weeks or months to a cat's life, so it's not out of the question, just not yet.

    The docusate is a stool softener and you have to be careful and not get the kind with a stimulant in it. I had to go to Walgreen's to find it without a stimulant in 50mg capsules, elsewhere I could only find it plain in 100mg capsules. The brand name is Colace. The acu vet says she uses it with glycerin as a "magic bullet" enema mix. We don't want to go that route for him either, but I'll see what the pumpkin does for him before I give the docusate capsule again.

    I also may stop the raw food and water down some Wellness to give him instead as I know the raw creates a harder, drier stool. His arthritis makes it difficult to posture in the box, so it's a compounding problem - it hurts to go, so he doesn't go often enough, so the stool gets harder and makes it even worse.

    Right now I think this is a main issue. He's not eating because of it. No, I have not tried baby food. He would probably like it, I gave that to him when he had pancreatitis bad.

    The acu vet is pretty plain spoken but was hesitant to say that whatever is going on to cause the seizures could be affecting his bowels. I understand that. So we will try this and that and see what works for him.

    Thanks for thinking of him.
     
  7. Darlene & Jack

    Darlene & Jack Member

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    Awwwww, I'm sorry Gandalf isn't doing well. It's even harder when you can't find any answers for what is going on.

    One tip that might be helpful with the Colace. When I used to work in a nursing home and had to do the med pass to the elderly who had a hard time swallowing pills, we would take a syringe and poke the capsule with the needle and withdraw the liquid in the capsule then mix it with applesauce. Maybe you could try to withdraw the liquid like that, and then you could just squirt it in with a little cat food. That way you could give a smaller amount too, say half the liquid to start with instead of a whole capsule. Just a thought. :)

    Hope he is doing better soon.
     
  8. Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin

    Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin Well-Known Member

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    That's a very good idea with capsules. Unfortunately I don't think I'll be giving those to him again, unless the pumpkin does not work at all.
     
  9. Marcy & Klinger (GA)

    Marcy & Klinger (GA) Well-Known Member

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    I'm so sorry Gandalf is sick. I've heard great things about pumpkin on the board. I hope he feels better soon!
     
  10. MommaOfMuse

    MommaOfMuse Well-Known Member

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    Awww poor fellow, I was kind of hoping that seizure was a once in a blue moon kind of thing. :sad: I just hate it when you run every test under the sun and still don't know what is wrong with them. Hopefully they will figure it out soon and Gandalf will be feeling better fairly soon. If the pumpkin doesn't work you can always try Miralax, it is tastless and works wonders for Maxwell. It doesn't have a stimulate in it, it is just a stool softener, it draws water into the bowels, so it doesn't make them go, it just makes it easier for them to go.

    Mel, Maxwell, Musette & The Fur Gang
     
  11. KSAkitties

    KSAkitties Member

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    May 26, 2011
    Vicky,

    I use MiraLax for two of my kitties for constipation, and it is working very well.

    MiraLax is ordourless and tasteless. You mix it with some water then syringe the kitty if the kitty is not eating or add it directly to their wet food. It is not a laxtive. It draws water into the intestine.

    Start with 1/8 teaspoon twice a day. It may take a couple of days to work but it is a quite safe way to help the kitties to pass hard stools. I have been using MiraLax on my kitties for a number of years on as needed basis.

    You can get MiraLax off the counter in WalMart or any pharmacy.
     
  12. Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin

    Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info on Miralax. I just wonder why 2 of my vets didn't mention it. But we know the board is sometimes ahead of the curve on these things!

    Gandalf had another seizure last night and trouble with his belly, which may have been the pumpkin. I will get with vet today about getting him an anti-seizure med. We had still not decided on something because she was checking with a university.
     
  13. KSAkitties

    KSAkitties Member

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    May 26, 2011

    Vicky,

    Pumpkin may not be the best choice if the kitty is already constipated. The new stools formed after taking the pumpkin will still be blocked by the hard stools that are already in the bowel. This is why MiraLax works better in this kind of situation. It draws water into the bowl.

    Here is a link on how to treat acute treatment for constipation:

    http://felineconstipation.org/acutetreatment.html

    The website (www.felineconstipation.org) is set up by a lady who has more knowledge on feline digestive system than anyone I know.

    I hope this helps. I am very sorry about Gandalf's seisure. I am afraid I don't know much about seisure in kitties.
     
  14. Melissa and Celle

    Melissa and Celle Member

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    Just sending some well wishes to Gandalf. I hope he feels better soon.
     
  15. pamela and tigger

    pamela and tigger Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    I have seen that site before - it IS a great site full of good info. I always wondered if the author was one of our oldtime very knowledgeable members who used to post on the old board under the moniker of Pat et al. I never knew her last name. This person's name is Pat Erickson.
     
  16. Pam & Alley

    Pam & Alley Member

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    Nov 18, 2010
    Vicky, hope Gandalf feels better soon, sending healing thoughts your way.
     
  17. KSAkitties

    KSAkitties Member

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    Yes. That's her. She is knowledgable on many other feline related health issues other than GI. She once helped me save two rescued cats that were very sick with the simplest remedy. Her posts are always worth reading and saving.
     
  18. Rob & Harley (GA)

    Rob & Harley (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Vicky, I'm so sorry Gandalf is having these issues.

    Sending prayers that he feels better soon and you find the right treatment for him.
     
  19. Darlene & Jack

    Darlene & Jack Member

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    Apr 2, 2011
    Hope everything is ok with you and Gandalf, Vicky. Haven't seen you post in a few days...hope things are well.
     
  20. Laura and Harley (GA)

    Laura and Harley (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Vicky, I'm so sorry to hear that Gandalf is sick. I'm sending prayers your way and healing vines to Gandalf. :YMHUG: cat_pet_icon
     
  21. Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin

    Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin Well-Known Member

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    Update

    I'm sorry I haven't been on the board much, nor posted any updates. Gandalf was very sick earlier this week and I needed time.

    I hope everyone sees what a marvelous information resource this board and the posts on it are for caregivers. If it was not for this board, not only would Gandalf not have survived FD, but I would also not be aware of treatments for diseases which are far from the scope of diabetes.

    Gandalf had/has an intestinal blockage. I took him in Thursday and upon comparing the Xray with the one taken the week before, the vet noticed a point in his colon where the stool just stopped. They did an enema, which only caused him to vomit so harshly it came out his nose. They were going to do a barium treatment to illuminate the bowel better on Xray, but the good vets there know barium should not be aspirated, so with him vomiting out small intestine content, they couldn't do that.

    The vet who treated him was not our regular vet. I saw her only when I first took him in but she had to leave before she could treat him. The treating vet was not very optimistic and told me I needed to either take him to the University or make a decision soon because the blockage is likely a tumor either in or surrounding his middle bowel. But at his age, surgery would probably leave him in worse shape.

    My regular vet called me when I got home. The conclusion is that it's a tumor which has metastasized and caused a lesion in his brain, which caused the seizures he's been having. We don't know for sure, but we are treating as if that is the case. It also makes sense that it is a cancer because some cancers eat glucose and his insulin needs have reduced by 3/4ths in less than 6 months. I suspected we were dealing with some type of cancer, but just didn't know where, when he first had seizures, a brain tumor was considered. The seizures have been ruled out as caused by high blood pressure or anything liver related by various tests.

    I mentioned earlier in the post that this board is a life saver. It was because of what I've learned on the board that I suggested treating with prednisolone. We are also watering down his food and no longer feeding raw, which contains a lot of mineral and makes a harder, drier stool. He is still getting the Colace. We are also giving Baytril for the fact he aspirated stomach content which can cause pneumonia.

    His blockage probably became apparent because I fed him food with pumpkin mixed in it the day before. I had tried the stool softener Colace, but he puked it up, so I just figured it wasn't going to work and made the pumpkin mix because we always read that fiber helps constipation. That is not necessarily true. Pamela showed me a wonderful site on feline constipation http://www.felineconstipation.org/ and also there's an excellent article on constipation in the Pet Diabetes Wiki. http://petdiabetes.wikia.com/wiki/Constipation It lists which treatments are best for what caused the constipation, of course you have to figure that out.

    His progress is guarded at this point. After only 1 dose of prednisolone he had a small bowel movement - never thought I'd be so happy to see poop! I was very close to making the decision yesterday before that. By today he's feeling better and acting more like himself, although still not really eating on his own. He is positively responsive and interested in what I'm doing. He came to the kitchen for shot time this morning. I know things will eventually get worse, but I think we're doing the right thing with the steroid. Of course his BGs have already taken a hit, but I can work around that.

    Thanks for all the well wishes. They really work!
     
  22. Marci and Buddy

    Marci and Buddy Member

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    Dec 28, 2009
    Vicky thanks for the update on Gandalf today. Very , very happy to hear he's on the upswing. I love the way you take care of him-so admirable. and i totally agree with you about the value of this site-i know for a fact that Buddys life is 100% better by the suggestions, support and knowledge i've gotten from here.
    I would not want to deal with FD alone.
    Please know that you both will be in my prayers.
     
  23. Darlene & Jack

    Darlene & Jack Member

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    What a little trooper Gandalf is! Glad to hear he is feeling a bit better today. Hope he has some better days coming...and I hope you do too!
     
  24. Laura and Harley (GA)

    Laura and Harley (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Vicky, I can appreciate the courage it took for you to try the prednisolone and I hope it buys you and Gandalf more quality time together. When kitty is not responding to other treatments, it can be a wonder drug. If it were not for the pred. Harley would not still be with me today. It's humbling how little victories such as eating and poop just make our day now when they used to come as naturally as breathing.

    If the Colace stops working for constipation, the Miralax which has been suggested is a good osmotic stool softener or you could also give lactulose a try. I use lactulose for Harley because all the other remedies on the feline constipation web site didn't work for him. (The Yahoo Feline IBD group had sent me there when I was struggling with Harley's stool issues earlier this year.) Some say lactulose it can raise the BGs because it's a sugar but I've not noticed that effect. But then again, when already shooting into the insulin resistance caused by prednisolone, a few extra BGs from lactulose are not as noticeable, or as important as they might normally be.

    Have you considered trying spirit essences or flower essences as a supplement to traditional medicine? I only started using one a few days ago for Harley and it's still too soon to tell if it's working. I got mine from Only Natural Pet. I don't give them to Harley in food or water like they say to do so as not to cause additional stomach upset, I rub it on his fur. Since you are into holistic remedies, I figured it'd be worth mentioning. Perhaps one that is for stress-relief or critical care situations?

    As time permits, please let us know how you both are doing. I will be praying for you both.

    Purrs and (((((((((hugs)))))))))
     
  25. Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin

    Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin Well-Known Member

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    I don't know that I am "into" holistic remedies. I read about Rescue Remedy and I had a horrible experience with it. A lot of people don't realize it has alcohol in it. Instead of putting it in his food I rubbed it on his ear. He and I were both miserable the whole trip (I used it once when we went to the U of I a long time ago), it made my fingers tingle and I can only imagine how his ear felt. Very irritating. I suppose I used it incorrectly.

    Yes we do acupuncture, but acupuncture has centuries behind it. I'm a little more leery of flower essences, mostly because there can be unscrupulous sellers/makers of the stuff.

    He's not doing any worse today, seems about the same as yesterday. Just nibbles at food, so I will ask vet tomorrow about Cyproheptidine with his current meds. I don't want to use Mirtazipine, as I've read it can make some cats voracious. I only need Gandalf to want to eat, not eat a lot.
     
  26. Laura and Harley (GA)

    Laura and Harley (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Ahhhh, my apologies Vicky, I need to work on my written communication skills. ohmygod_smile

    If you are considering cyproheptadine, my experience with it with Harley was that a little bit goes a long way. My vet prescribed 1/4 pill twice a day and Harley ate like a horse, and then threw up. The folks on the Yahoo Feline Assisted Feeding Group say that vets tend to prescribe on the high end of the dosing scale and that less will often work better than more. They reccomend 1/8 pill twice a day as a starting dose. Also, If Gandalf is not currently on an anti-emetic, it might be worth considering adding ondansetron (EDIT: accidentally wrote Zoloft, I meant to write Zolfram) or dolaston (Anzemet) when giving an appetite stimulant. In my experience with Harley, constipation caused him to be nauseous and nausea led to anorexia. A typical starting dose for ondansetron is 1 mg (1/4 of a pill), twice a day. When I gave cyproheptadine without first addressing nausea, Harley developed food aversions to everything he was compelled to eat. Some of those are still with us today (tuna, sardines and duck), others have faded over time (chicken, turkey and beef).

    I agree on avoiding Mirtazapine. It is associated with a potentially deadly side effect - Seratonin Syndrome which can be fatal. Ironically, the antidote to overdose of Mirtazapine is cyproheptadine.
     
  27. Marci and Buddy

    Marci and Buddy Member

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    Laura -do you mind if i ask you-what is the Zoloft for? isnt that an anti-depressant for humans?
     
  28. Laura and Harley (GA)

    Laura and Harley (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Marci, thank you so much for pointing that out - I meant to write Zofram instead of Zoloft! Too much syringe feeding and too little sleep. I have no experience with anti-depressants in cats.
     
  29. Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin

    Vicky & Gandalf (GA) & Murrlin Well-Known Member

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    :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

    I wondered that too. But I've seen others use the generic term, so figured you had it right.
     
  30. Laura and Harley (GA)

    Laura and Harley (GA) Well-Known Member

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    Feb 3, 2011
    Zofram, Zoloft, Zhiavago, anyone care to join me in a drinking09?


    :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
     
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