Want to ditch the Hills rx foods... opinions?

Nelson was dx a week ago and after a couple days of being a good patient, went with my gut and ditched the w/d. This has made me more determined now than ever to (1) transition all the rest of my cats to 100% wet (right now it's around 60/40) and (2) get the two civvy cats who are on Hills rx diets off of them.

Muffin, who is Nelson's littermate--both are turning 8 this spring--has been on k/d for about 2 years now. In fact, I had just banished SD from my house at the same time she was dx with bladder stones and was told to put her on rx foods... s/d and c/d first, and then when they did surgery and discovered she had urate stones then k/d ever since. My vet DID recommend wet food over dry, but the Hills wet rx foods are nasty, nasty, nasty and Muffin would not eat them. It's not that she won't eat wet... she won't eat THAT wet. She has gone in for routine testing every 3 months since her surgery in January 2008 and her urine pH is right where the vet wants it and she hasn't developed new stones or symptoms. When Muffin was sick she was miserable and took it all out on a new kitten we had at the time... kitten grew up to be a hyperterritorial diva whose sole goal in life is to Get Muffin. Ever since then Muffin has been "fine" behaviorally and clinically but I feel like I'm dealing with a time bomb feeding her dry k/d.

Pixel is almost 2 y/o and had a near blockage due to stones around Thanksgiving. He's a rescue so he goes to a different vet who deals more with ferals and rescues. Very old school, treat first, test later, but really knows how to handle skittish cats with limited stress on both humans and cats. Pixel is very good with humans unlike a few I have who are pretty bad and almost have to be trapped to go to the vet, so he could have gone to my regular vet, but DH and I wanted to see how this vet would handle Pixel. He was immediately catheterized (saving me a trip to the emergency vet because I caught it early) and the dx was struvite stones. Rx was a bag of c/d dry and a tube of Methagel. The tube says not to feed with an acidifying diet but vet insisted it would be ok. Pixel has been urinating fine ever since. But again, I know I'm dealing with a time bomb here. Also, Pixel really doesn't like c/d very much and has lost weight. He's a healthy weight now so I really would rather he not lose more weight. So while the in-office tx was ok, have serious issues with the rx.

I'm more concerned short term about Pixel because he is a male and know that he could block in a very short period of time on the wrong diet, which apparently was his old diet. But I don't want Muffin to relapse either because the only way to get rid of urate stones is through surgery.

SO... if I just transition Pixel along with the rest of the non-rx cats to a 100% wet (foods in the rotation are Authority and Wellness wet, both on the food charts), would the increased water in the diet alone help prevent a relapse?

What about Muffin? I'm assuming that she would need to be on a different wet food because of the acidifiers in regular wet cat food, but which ones might be an alternative?

Dr. Lisa... do you do consults? Don't know if old school vet would be open to it but regular vet might.

 

Dr Lisa does do consults. I myself feed two of my cats CD because they have blocked in the past. There is also another recent post
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1862
that might provide additional information.

 

The sooner the better, Bridget!

You have hit my hot button. I have a lot of arguments with Hills and the other producers of so-called 'prescription' foods. I think the way these foods are marketed is ethically dishonorable and the way these foods are manufactured is the definition of exploitation of the consumer.

How can these possibly be called 'prescription' when there is not a single pharmaceutical ingredient in them? What's in them are the cheapest possible ingredients. Comparison of ingredients with any high--or even middle--end commercial food will demonstrate how bad these are, by comparison, for cats. Some garbage cans would be better than this overpriced junk.

As for the marketing, it's shameful. These manufacturers begin bribing vet students with all kinds of perks, from free food for their pets to scholarships. By the time they go into practice these vets feel obligated, some have said they feel guilty if they don't 'prescribe' these foods which, conveniently, are a major profit center for them. In some cases this amounts to 20 percent of the annual profit for the practice.

As for education in nutrition, that, too, is shameful. Many schools do not teach nutrition at all, more teach nutrition with materials, and sometimes instructors, provided by the manufacturers. They use the materials created as sales tools for educational purposes. In any other area of medicine this would be grounds for school censure. The continuing education in nutrition takes the form of sales calls. It's revolting.

Research? Guess who pays for it. Right! There are so few avenues available for any kind of research into any aspect of veterinary medicine that those with vested interests have free rein.

So by all means take your cats off all the phony alphabet foods. (You can, as I do, boycott all foods made by these manufacturers.) You may give your vets information regarding this nasty practice, or not, your choice. I simply tell my vets that I don't allow any of the products from these corporations in my home.

 

Read this section on urinary health on Dr. Lisa's site : http://www.catinfo.org/feline_urinary_tract_health.htm

All urinary problems have one thing in common - they need more moisture. Flush the system regularly. Feeding a dry diet is the exact opposite of what should be done= it puts the cat in a state of chronic dehydration. And dry k/d is so low in protein that it's actually unhealthy for cats. They may even start cannibalizing their own muscle to get the protein they need.

Your instincts are good. Go with them.

 

Just for info, the AAFCo standards require a minimum of 26% protein (dry mater basis). Dry k/d has 28.8%, canned has 28.9%,, both on dry matter basis.

 

Hi Janet and all, very helpful.

BTW, k/d and other diets for cats with kidney disease do seem to be recommended for urate uroliths, which is rare in cats but unfortunately was what Muffin had. http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/ve ... &pageID=10. That particular site also indicates that surgery could be done to correct the problem causing the stones to begin with, which was not brought up as an option by my vet.

I'm not saying it's the right thing to feed her, but my vet was just doing what it says it's designed for. I was wondering about it too but found several articles saying, yep, kidney diet for urate stones. http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm ... 4&aid=2729

And the stones have not come back. Of course, there are all the other issues with feeding what is otherwise a junk diet. She has very slowly put on weight that she lost when she was sick... weight that I was glad she lost. She's not as heavy as she was before she got sick but maybe a pound heavier than she needs to be and going in the wrong direction.

My primary concern with her is that a wet diet alone isn't going to be enough and that there was more going on than just dehydration. She developed the stones after I switched her from equally junky SD to a higher quality, higher protein diet. However, that diet included dry food--it wasn't exclusively dry, but it wasn't exclusively wet. BUT if feeding an exclusively wet diet will flush out whatever crystals form in her urine, uric or otherwise, before a stone is formed, then problem solved.

Pixel's issue is probably *just* water so I'm leaning toward feeding him the same as everyone else, wet only.

And great idea about testing urine pH. I was looking into that last night. Would I need to get special sticks like what Solid Gold sells, or would anything do?

 

Bridget, you are on the right track and this thread has a ton of information for you. Dr. Lisa has her email address under her avatar if ever you need it... just find one of her posts. Her site is listed in my signature.

I am with Gia... I feel very burned by the prescription food companies and do not ever hesitate to say it to my vets or the pet store people. Just recently, I had a long conversation with a pet store manager (who was in agreement about what cats should eat but didn't really have the same hate-on for the SD and alphabet diets that I had). Essentially, I said to her what Gia just posted and it was funny.... though she sort of new all that, she never put it together as a conspiracy or something underhanded. She was converted though. :twisted:

The thing about the prescription foods that I tell my friends is this... There is nothing prescription in them; they do not have ingredients that are better or even as good as the lower priced foods available at the supermarket; and, they give false hope of health when, in fact, they cause more problems than they fix.

So whatever the problem in a dog or cat, you can help to resolve that problem with diet, but you don't need to, and shouldn't try to, do it with the phony prescription foods.

 

Hi, After reading all the nutrition links here. The thing that makes more sense and i have to agree is what do cats eat if we didn't feed them. They hunt birds, lizards, mice, etc, so if you look at it that way they were never supposed to eat dry food as Lisa points out their teeth are made to shred and tear, not grind hard food. Also look at the ingredients as i have and you will find that it haspork by product, corn starch (probably a carb), soy protein (they are carnivores not vegeterians) and rice flour another carb.

After reading all of this from Lisa and especially about the carbs. I have a diabetec cat. Like i said she is 14. So my 16 and 14 year old for a good part of their lives have always eaten dry food and I believe it caused my 14 year old to have diabetes.

I can tell you I pulled all my dry food about 3 days ago and I have already noticed a huge difference in all my cats coats ,temperments, less urine in the kitty box etc. They are just like us when we eat healthy you will fell a lot better.

In the situation to ditch the hills i would probably do some research about what foods you need. I read that you asked lisa if she does consults. That is a great way to start. Keep asking a lot of questions and I think you will find the answer that you are comfortable with.

 

Oh and about the vets. Think of them like our Doctors. Ever find a Doctor that you really like or is it lets run some tests to find out what is going on. Just examples. I know everybody has been to a doctor that doesn't know what is going on and refers you to a specialist. After my personal experience with the vet i would start asking a lot more questions and get research because the animals aren't going to do it. Get a second opinion if you have too or a third.

 

If your vet really wants your cat on an Rx diet, try Royal Canin Urinary SO. It has chicken, chicken by-products, pork, and pork by-products as the first four ingredients. It also buffers the urine pH to prevent it from being either too acidic or too basic. Some of the other urinary cat foods just acidify the urine and may go too far. The SO does contain corn flour, so is not as low in carbs as it could be. Per their website, it is 18.4% carbs. Your vet should be able to order it for you. If not, have them give you an Rx and order from petfooddirect.

Edited to add. It does not contain soy or glutens.