Warren - 5/29/2000 - 7/1/2016 rest in peace my furry friend

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by robr, May 22, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. SpecklesandMe

    SpecklesandMe Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    How's Warren?
    (Anti-jinx vibes in place while waiting for an update! ;) )
     
  2. robr

    robr Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    I try not to update if things are going well :). Jinx and all that....... I usually update his spreadsheet every 3-4 days with his glucose numbers and any other notes (accidents, changes to medications and such). I've had to up his dose to get his numbers back in line and haven't updated his spreadsheet to reflect that yet, but we're back to around 0.6 ish.

    Here is his bloodwork img-150922143644-0001.jpg info img-150922143749-0001.jpg img-150922143722-0001.jpg for the last 2 years.
     
  3. robr

    robr Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Oh also the vet gave me cosequin for his arthritis. I didn't think arthritis is curable so not sure what this is supposed to do, but they said if it does anything, it would take 4-6 weeks before it would have a noticeable effect.

    We also have #&$#*^$ fleas. I live in a duplex and our next door neighbor has outdoor cats (As some of you know this was a potential source of warren pooping by the door). When they get fleas, we get fleas. On the 2nd round of Sentry FiproGuard now and it doesn't seem to be working as it has in the past. My kids are getting eaten alive by these things. (Advantage and Frontline are too expensive when you have 4 cats and need to do 3 rounds). Based on my research, this is the same formula as previous generation Frontline.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2015
  4. SpecklesandMe

    SpecklesandMe Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    I just looked at the above labs, as well as the urinalyses on the last page, and I am a bit skeptical about kidney issues being a major problem for him right now. His creatinine and Bun:creatitine ratios are normal. The urea nitrogen from April of this year is elevated, but from Tanya's CRF page:

    "If BUN or urea levels are high yet creatinine is normal or only a little elevated, it usually means that the cat is dehydrated, has gastro-intestinal bleeding, or is eating a high protein diet. Effects of dietary protein content on renal parameters in normal cats(2011) Backlund B, Zoran DL, Nabity MB, Norby B & Bauer JE Journal of Feline Medicine and Surgery 13(10) pp698-704 found that BUN levels were significantly higher in healthy cats fed a high protein (46%) diet compared to a low protein (26%) diet, though (since these were healthy cats) they were still within normal range." So, I mean, it's possible the kidneys are starting to decline, but if you tested it now, I think his BUN and creatinine would both have to be high if that were to account for a urine specific gravity as low as 1.014. I know all this is pricey, but if you really want pursue a diagnosis of kidney disease, you can have them run a urine: protein creatinine ratio during his next urinalysis, or redo BUN and creatinine since his USG has dropped since the last blood test. If they're not both high now, I would start thinking about alternative diagnoses.

    I am not a vet, but have been through this before... so my two cents is that his pee is dilute from his BGs being in 400s, or he could actually have partial diabetes insipidus. I think it's worth having a desmopressin trial. (The only other way to test for DI is through a water deprivation test, and I would definitely not put your cat through that since a desmo trial is just as accurate.) Or at least try finding out if the vet thinks it's likely for his diabetes mellitus to dilute his urine that much in the absence of another issue (like kidney disease or DI)- my gut is that it's not likely to be diabetes mellitus alone despite high-ish BGs, but I'm not positive about that. (I am happy to ask my vet about it if you want, since he's diagnosed DI before.)

    If he does have partial DI, desmo shots will completely treat it once you find the correct dose. I feel like a moron for throwing out the rest of our desmopressin, but I couldn't bear to look at it after we lost my sweet kitty a couple weeks ago. It is expensive ($100-200 per vial), but you don't use much at all and it lasts for at least 6mon. You can order online, or what we did is to print discount cards and get it at the cheapest pharmacy nearby (CVS for us). It is marketed as a nasal spray for humans.

    Sorry if this is too much info. I just really want things to work out well for Warren! I can tell how much you love him!
     
  5. SpecklesandMe

    SpecklesandMe Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Just a quick rant: It's annoying to me that kidney disease is the "go-to" diagnosis for any cat with dilute pee, sometimes even in the absence of supporting labs. I feel like 99% of vets do this. That's what we were told was going on when my kitty first started having dilute pee and we had to push hard to get real answers because the numbers just didn't make sense. I understand that CKD is common, but that doesn't mean that's what every single cat with dilute pee has. (ECID!) Ironically, when we lost my sweet kitty to cancer, his kidneys were still completely healthy according to his labs and U/S.
     
    Cat girl and Squalliesmom like this.
  6. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    You can get Capstar from WalMart which is a pill you can give daily (if necessary)..it kills all the fleas on the cat within 6 hours

    The problem is that the fleas are becoming resistant to the same active ingredients, so you might try something other than Frontline, like Advantage II

    Follow up by treating the house...Diatomaceous Earth is cheap, safe and non-toxic for pets and children....and very effective too!!
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2015
    Squalliesmom likes this.
  7. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    I agree, it doesn't always follow. But I do think it might still be worth investigating in this case. Comparing his 2014 results to his 2015 ones, his BUN has gone from 28 (well within normal range) to 42 (above normal range by around 17%). That's a 50% increase in BUN in a year - that's pretty significant. I don't see either Phosphorus or Potassium levels on the 2015 blood work so there's no way of knowing if those have moved without additional tests. And although his glucose hasn't changed much, his USG has dropped from 1.03 (within normal range) to 1.014 in just the last few months. The creatinine looks fine, but that was the last thing to start moving with my Rosa - and hers is still within normal range, though higher than it was. Yet we're having real problems regulating her kidney issues which we might have avoided if the initial increase in BUN hadn't been put down to her kidneys being overworked by the diabetes (and she's still only Stage 2 on IRIS - I honestly dread to think what we're in for as it progresses, and it's progressing fast). While DI is of course also a possibility, kidney problems can be a nightmare and personally, I'd try to rule that out first simply on the basis that kidney disease can kill but is also easier to control for longer the earlier you catch it. I'm not trying to start an argument, just giving my reasoning for why I'd investigate further in this case. :)
     
  8. SpecklesandMe

    SpecklesandMe Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    I totally agree. I would do a new BUN and creatinine, and/or a urine protein: creatinine. If they come back normal (or BUN and creatinine have not increased further), then I would start looking into DI. Sorry if I didn't make that clear before.
     
    Squalliesmom and manxcat419 like this.
  9. manxcat419

    manxcat419 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    Agreed! :) I'd also like to see electrolyte levels re-checked - if his BUN is raised as a result of a high protein diet, then there should be a reduction in the phosphorus level to go with it. I do see the creatinine is down slightly in 2015 compared to 2014, which again might be covered by a high protein diet - that's also expected to lower slightly.
     
    Squalliesmom and SpecklesandMe like this.
  10. Tucker&Me

    Tucker&Me Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2015
    I use DE too Rob. It is excellent. If you do get some, go ahead and spring for the applicator! I though I could rig something up myself. Ha! It is a super fine talc like powder, and you need the applicator!!
    I use it everywhere outdoors too, around any doors, walkway edges and so on. In the vacuum bags too!
    I haven't needed Frontline/Advantage at all for years.

    You would laugh yourself silly if you saw my contraption for dusting the kitties with it.
    Hope you can make it work, its safe & super cheap.
     
    SpecklesandMe likes this.
  11. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    Just make sure you get "food grade" diatomaceous earth! Non-food grade DE is not good to use in that capacity, as it is a carcinogen.
     
    SpecklesandMe likes this.
  12. Squeaky and KT (GA)

    Squeaky and KT (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2011
    Flea dosing 4 kitties - try dosing 9 cats and 11 dogs! Whew! I use Advantage II and buy the large DOG dose. I can then use an empty syringe and dose it down and get 8 cats out of 1 pkg - they only get .47ml. NOT the Advantage Multi or regular Advantage, it's the white capped Advantage II. It's the same product in both dogs and cats. It works better than Frontline on everyone here. We live on ancient beach sand so fleas are an ever-present problem. We also rarely get cold enough for long enough to kill them.
     
  13. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    I get my flea meds Revolution from Australia. http://www.vetshopmax.com It's cheaper, you don't need a script and I can get 12 pipette. Here the vets can only give me the box of 6. So it's making trips to the vet constantly. I have 3 cats so I order frequently. This past order I caught a sale-they were $30 cheaper. Sometimes they offer free shipping. They are from the same manufacturer as here in the states. Last time I looked, Revolution was cheaper than Frontline and Advantage. One of my cats need adult and kitten dose due to weight so he got 2 every month. The only reason I use it was years ago it was the only one that did more than just fleas. I needed one for ears too. Maybe this is an option for you. Wish they did insulin.
     
    Squalliesmom likes this.
  14. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    I've used Revolution for years, it's the only one that really seems to work for my guys.
     
  15. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    You can get the large dog size CapStar and cut it into quarters to dose cats.

    Documentation for it is attached.
     

    Attached Files:

  16. robr

    robr Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Just a quick update as I've fallen behind on updating the spreadsheet since starting my new job. We've had only 2 accidents in just about a month which is a huge huge improvement. His numbers are still kind of all over the place but as long as his behavior is good and he seems healthy, then everybody is happy.
     
  17. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    That's GREAT news Rob!!! (anti-jinx anti-jinx anti-jinx)

    I have been thinking of you and Warren lately but was afraid to ask how things were going considering how bad they'd been. Let's hope the good news continues!
     
  18. Cat Ma

    Cat Ma Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2015
    Wonderful news!
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2015
    Squalliesmom likes this.
  19. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Glad things are going well? What is it that worked?
     
    Squalliesmom likes this.
  20. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    I'm so glad to hear the good news!!! Like Chris and China, I have been thinking about Warren but was afraid to ask. I am so, so happy to hear he is doing so much better! :):):)
     
  21. SpecklesandMe

    SpecklesandMe Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    WOOHOO!!!! :) YAY!!!!
     
    Squalliesmom likes this.
  22. robr

    robr Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    I'm glad too. I have no idea what it is that worked. I guess he just decided on his own.
     
    Cat Ma, Dyana, SpecklesandMe and 2 others like this.
  23. Tucker&Me

    Tucker&Me Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2015
    He made his decision. To settle in. ?
    Good going Warren!!!!
     
    billysmom (GA) and Squalliesmom like this.
  24. Merlin

    Merlin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    So glad that Warren is doing well.

    So Rob - what has Warren's number been lately? Maybe there is a clue somewhere in there?
     
  25. robr

    robr Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    There's definitely a clue, the poop accidents seemed to be around the time he had some very low numbers. In the past the low numbers seemed to make him pee, but it's the only obvious relationship. I just updated the spreadsheet.
     
  26. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Rob, I've been following your posts and have been keeping you and your wife and of course Warren in my prayers and positive thoughts. Thank you for keeping us updated, I think you have quite a lot of people watching and following his progress. I think we all very much appreciate your perseverance and care, and are sending well wishes.

    I'm sure you're aware of this already, but to keep Warren safe we would recommend testing him before every shot.

    From the spreadsheet it looks like he's bouncing around from some lower numbers than his body is comfortable with.
    Maybe, some more mid-cycle tests would determine that a dose reduction is needed, and maybe the bouncing would settle down. I know you know that we recommend mid-cycle tests as much as possible but everyone has different circumstances and situations. I work full time and long hours, and would get most of my tests at night and during my infrequent days off.

    On the evening of September 30th, I would have tested 30 minutes after that PMPS of 41, to make sure he was going up. And I would have continued testing for a while (maybe the whole cycle depending upon the numbers) to make sure he was going up. I know your situation is different than mine was, as it was just me and the cat.

    I just want you to know that I've been helping people on the Lantus forum for a long time, and I just want to help you to keep Warren safe and sound diabetic wise.
    I don't want to preach at you as I'm sure you've done this before, but perhaps rereading the dosing protocols on the Lantus forum would be beneficial. I know it's a ton of information and not easy to understand and remember all of it the first or second time around, and sometimes we "get" some of it, and every time we re-read the information we might understand a bit more. I'm just writing all this because I care and I want Warren to stay in healthy and safe numbers as much as you do.

    Blessings, Good Thoughts, and Good Luck, to you and Warren.
     
    Merlin and Squalliesmom like this.
  27. robr

    robr Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Dyana thanks very much for your note. First off, I screwed up. I cut/paste the 0.5 all the way down when I was playing spreadsheet catchup last night. I did not dose him when he was reading that low.
    As you've read, it's also very very hard to give an accurate dosage when you're dealing with 0.5u (even with a micrometer) . A dosage change of even 0.1u make a huge difference in his numbers. I'm just trying to do my best with his dosing. On the days he dropped very low, it likely means he got an extra 0.1u. But I will try to do better with measuring before dosing.
     
  28. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    You are doing a great job Rob! It's good news that there is harmony in the house. Continued success to you and Warren.
     
  29. robr

    robr Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    All is quiet here. Only one accident since my last report. My son's friend left his sneakers on the floor in my son's bedroom. Warren went into my son's bedroom and peed on the shoes. In the past he'd only peed on shoes in the kitchen, this was a first. So, nobody leaves shoes anywhere on the floor any more. He leaves the shoes alone if they are elevated, even if he can jump up and reach them.

    I still haven't been checking his BC every time I shoot (yes, yes, I know, I'm bad), but every time I have checked it's pretty much been in the mid 100's.
    Still doing the cosequin thing, no other supplements.

    If you're not hearing from me, then Warren is doing well :)
     
  30. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Go Warren!!!

    Love hearing that things are going well Rob!!
     
    Squalliesmom likes this.
  31. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    I'm so happy to hear that he's doing well! :):):)
     
  32. Kitty mom

    Kitty mom Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2014
    I'm happy you didn't give up on Warren......great news
     
    Squalliesmom likes this.
  33. Cat girl

    Cat girl Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2015
    Probably uti and the smell of it in the rug.my civie sable when she is sick she will poop on the floor.she never does it any other time just when she feels really bad.her way of letting me know how she feels I guess?cats are very strange.lol
     
  34. Peggy & Oliver

    Peggy & Oliver Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    My son's cat has a terrible problem with idiopathic cystitis. He is on elavil which calms him (he is very skittish due to whatever he went through before my son took him in) and pees on everything. The elavil, besides calming him, helps with bladder inflammation and the problem is almost completely eliminated. Worth running this by your vet. You say Warren is doing everything else normal, so he certainly doesn't need to be put to sleep. That shouldn't even be an option. Sorry but that's my opinion.

     
  35. robr

    robr Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    FYI, Feliway collar did this to Warren. Can't believe we didn't notice until today. The other side of his neck has an even larger bald patch. The collar was fitted loosely.
     

    Attached Files:

  36. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Oh no!! I guess that's a good reminder that no matter what it is, we should always keep our eyes out for reactions!

    Hope Warren suffers no permanent problems and his fur grows back quickly!
     
  37. SpecklesandMe

    SpecklesandMe Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Is the skin red? I can't tell in the pic. A normal collar had actually done that same thing to my Speckles, but my civvie had the same kind of collar and never had an issue.
     
  38. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    I used Feliway collars on two of my crew and had no issues (thankfully!) Sorry Warren has had a problem with it, hope his hair grows back soon!
     
  39. robr

    robr Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Hi all, Dyana reached out to me to see how Warren is doing, so thought I'd share my note to her.

    Warren has for the most part been doing quite well. He does have the occasional accident (all of which are noted in his spreadsheet), though most of those seem to be tied to when we have guests in the house. He will often go out of his way to find their shoes (even if they are in the kids rooms which he generally has zero problems with) and pees on them. So we've managed to remedy that issue by training any guests. As long as the shoes aren't on the floor, he doesn't seem to target them. Even still, he does seem to like to express his dissatisfaction with strangers being around by the occasional poop in front of a door.

    But the wife has not really complained in quite some time, at least not in a serious manner, so I think we've achieved a balance around here that people can live with. I have stopped regularly measuring Warren's levels. Though I do take them a couple of times a week, I haven't been updating the spreadsheet with them. At this point, I'm monitoring behavior more than anything else. Warren has been on Cosequin now for almost 3 months. Not sure if it's doing anything, but it's not hurting him. I totally spaced B-12. I have a whole bunch of B-12 shots around here somewhere, but because they have to be kept in the dark, I put them in some unusual location and can't find them!! I should probably just go get some more from the vet.

    I think someone may have a tape worm issue.... we found a bunch of little worms in my daughter's bed last night. Thought they were pin worms at first, but after lots and lots of googling, the closest thing we could find was tapeworm. The cats did have fleas as you may recall, those are mostly under control now, but not 100% gone, and the cats like to sleep on my daughter's bed, so they will be getting tapeworm and flea treatments today.

    On a completely unrelated note, one year ago I had to rehome one of my favorites, Kaya was 7 years old and just wasn't doing well with other cats. I called her new person last week for the 1st time since she was adopted, an elderly woman who treats Kaya like the princess she is. Kaya is a DLH, 100% black, petite cat (5 lbs). So sweet, loves to bathe you and sit next to you for hours. We called her "perma-kitten". I miss her, but it's what was best for her and I'm very happy for the two of them.

    Warren's brother Brak I also had to rehome 7 or 8 years ago. We're good friends with his person, Brak is also diabetic and seems to have far worse bathroom habits than Warren, but she doesn't care.

    Our other three, Star, Crystal and ZZ (this is what you end up with when you let a 5 year old name a cat) are all well. Warren just came over as I was typing this and says MEOW to everybody. Or perhaps he just wants some help getting up to my lap.

    Happy Holidays to everybody and their fur buddies.
     
  40. BJM

    BJM Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2010
    Thanks for the update! Sounds like things are going fairly well.

    There are over the counter tapeworm tabs one may get to treat those. I've gotten them off of Amazon.
     
  41. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Thanks for the report. I don't want to jinx anything. Happy Holidays to all of you!
    [​IMG]
     
  42. Olive & Paula

    Olive & Paula Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    So happy to hear every thing is going smoothly. Happy holidays to all of you.
     
    Tucker&Me likes this.
  43. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    Rob, how wonderful to hear that all is well with Warren! I'm so glad things worked out for all of you. Thank you for the update.

    Happy Holidays to you and yours, too! :)
     
    Tucker&Me likes this.
  44. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Great to hear from you! And even better to hear that peace has pretty much returned to your home (and marriage!)

    It sounds like Warren is just a bit of a crotchety old man and doesn't appreciate those "young whippersnappers" invading his space ;)

    It's definitely easier to train the humans!! "You have a choice folks....either pick up your shoes or listen to them "squish squish squish" all the way home".....LOL

    Happy Holidays to you and Warren!!
     
    Critter Mom, Tucker&Me and Robin&BB like this.
  45. Tucker&Me

    Tucker&Me Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2015
    Thank you so much for the update on Warren and the household!!
    This literally made my day.

    Rob, you are a wonderful, caring *patient* person. You did everything under the Sun to achieve this harmony and I know you are enjoying it. You deserve it!!

    Super Happy Christmas to you and yours, and God bless ya for that huge heart of yours and your family.
    Wishing you continued success. :)
     
    Kate and Kloever likes this.
  46. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Rob,

    I've been away from the board for quite a while (I have a lot of health difficulties). I have thought of Warren and yourself often and I was absolutely delighted to see your update this evening! Well done, you, for being Warren's champion and getting him through such a tough time. :D

    Blessings to you all,
    :bighug:


    Mogs
    .
     
    Louellen likes this.
  47. Peggy & Oliver

    Peggy & Oliver Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2015
    Glad things are working out better!
     
  48. robr

    robr Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Happy New Year everybody. A quick 2016 Warren update...... Warren is having lots of litter box problems again of late (noted in spreadsheet). I'm going to start taking his blood sugar readings regularly again but the few samples I've taken over the course of the week have looked pretty good (for him). 200s for the most part. But the poor guy has not had a solid poop since probably March 2015, at least not that I've seen, so this could be a case of other issues just catching up to him. It's been pretty much pure thick liquid. Maybe I will try the probiotics again, but those seemed to be triggering accidents the couple of times I'd tried them earlier in the year. He's still taking his daily cosequin, getting B-12 shots and has been treated for tape worms (just in case) a few weeks back. Personality wise he is his same old self, sitting in my lap now, purring away, trying to roll onto his back so I will scratch his belly. He does seem a little slower, and last month he was on the coffee table trying to get into some people food my kids left out and I gently and slowly pushed him away with my foot and he fell off the table and landed on his back. I felt terrible, but I mention it because he had plenty of time to adjust and it was just not like him to be so uncoordinated. I now pick him up and place him down any time I need him to move. Sigh. Poor guy :(
     
    Louellen likes this.
  49. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Rob,

    Thanks for the update. A couple of thoughts:

    1. Maybe try adding a little canned plain pumpkin to Warren's food. It helps with both constipation and diarrhoea and helps normalise the GI tract. (Lots of info on GI tract health at www.felineconstipation.org.)

    2. Perhaps get Warren's potassium levels checked next time you have a blood work-up. I've read here that low potassium levels can cause weakness with symptoms akin to those of neuropathy.

    Happy New Year to you and your family, Rob, and some extra-special, TLC-filled :bighug::bighug::bighug: for Warren. Tummy rubs, too! :) Warren sounds like such a sweetheart. I'm glad he has such a loving Bean to care for him.


    Mogs
    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2016
    Louellen, Kate and Kloever and Jeanne like this.
  50. Jill & Alex (GA)

    Jill & Alex (GA) Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Hi Rob. Happy New Year!!!
    Since this thread has become quite lengthy and cumbersome now, how about starting a new thread when you come back to the board? You can link this one to the new post.

    Thanks much,
    Jill
     
    Louellen likes this.
  51. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Happy New Year Rob & Warren and your whole family :)
    I hope you get his litter box and loose poo issues better under control with some medicine or something to help him.
    I know plain pumpkin is good for both too soft and too hard poos. I would give a look at the link Mogs gave you.
    Blessings to all of you in the new year :bighug: Thanks for the update.
     
    Louellen likes this.
  52. robr

    robr Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Alas, I think we've hit bottom again. For the past month, warren has been having very frequent issues with not using the litter box. In all sorts of new places and it just seems to be getting worse. His glucose has been good for him (generally low to mid 200s, I just haven't been updating the spreadsheet. Haven't seen anything over low 300s in a very long time). I took my 10yo son to the shelter the other day, he likes to visit and play with the cats there and they had a kitten that was mini Warren. Looked and acted just like him. The staff said he was the friendliest kitten they'd had in a very long time. He had been adopted within 6 hours of arriving, I probably would have taken him home had I been there a couple hours earlier. Probably best I didn't for my mental health anyway, but I keep thinking about that kitten. This just sucks. I mean I knew we'd be back here at some point, and it's been almost 10 months since his diabetes relapse, so I guess that's a decent run, but I just wish I could turn back his clock. He still sits in my lap for hours, purring away, sleeping like the dead or cleaning himself. If he seemed sick or miserable, this would be so much easier.
     
  53. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Rob,

    Sorry to hear Warren's having toileting issues again. I understand how upsetting it is for you and your family - from all angles. [Group :bighug:]

    Did you get any blood work done recently? Do you know what his kidney markers, potassium and B12 levels were like.


    Mogs
    .
     
  54. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Praying for Warren and you. I agree with Mogs, that another vet visit is in order.
    Wishing for a wise vet to help Warren with his potty issues. I wonder if an animal communicator would help.
     
    Critter Mom likes this.
  55. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Very good idea! Is there anyone you could recommend for Rob to contact, Dyana?


    .
     
  56. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    I have never contacted one, myself, although I have wanted to. I'll see if I can find someone with a recommendation.
     
  57. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Hi Rob

    Dyana contacted me about an AC. I've had one I've used for about 15 years and she is outstanding. You can read about her and get her contact info from her website Journey to Healing.

    Just as an example of how good she is, a few months ago, after Gracie's endoscopy, I called her to just check in with Gracie to see how she was feeling. I did not even mention the endoscopy and the first thing she said to me was "she's showing me she has been shaved in several spots". They shaved her in three spots to put the IV and also the monitoring electrodes. Then she said "did you have her scoped because she's showing me this and says she felt violated". And that was with me not saying word one about the procedure or her intestinal issues. And this was over the phone. She also told me that Gracie was showing issues around her heart and I told her I thought it was from the inflammation in her stomach/upper small intestine but, as it turns out, it was her heart.

    I hope you can reach her and get an appt before you do anything. Be patient but she does usually call back within a week. Please tell her I referred you (you can tell her "Marje and Gracie").

    Good luck.
     
    Critter Mom likes this.
  58. ELLIOTT & Fran Munschauer

    ELLIOTT & Fran Munschauer Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Sorry to bud in..What is an AC? I tried to find Rob's DVM and blood glucose and the diagnosis and prognosis.. Do some of you determine the type of Insulin and dosage without the DVM's order? Just curious and hope and pray Warren will be okay. You are all the experts..is urine the only issue? I know that it is listed as a s/s but aren't there other reasons for a cat to do this..considering everything else is fine. (I have dogs who have accidents? too often)
     
  59. robr

    robr Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    If I were to get one final blood test done, what would you guys recommend I ask for specifically? Many of you have looked at his previous blood test results and asked some candid questions as to why certain things weren't done. I just want to make sure I am thorough as this could very well be the last opportunity to find something via labs.

    Fran, with the experts here, it's common to recommend something to the vet and have them sign off on it. That's the case here. The vet started Warren on one type of insulin but based on results, the board recommended something else. I talked with the vet and she agreed with the change. The vet told me 6 months ago there is nothing else she can do for Warren, but Warren himself decided on the very day his euthanasia was scheduled that he wasn't ready to go and changed his behavior on the spot. Quite amazing really. I brought him to the vet to be put to sleep and at the last minute decided to have them run another blood test instead just to be sure. He's now relapsing. If you look at the spreadsheet (link in my sig), his litterbox behavior is well documented.
     
  60. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    It's an Animal Communicator @FRAN MUNSCHAUER

    People who are able to "talk" with our animals and let us know what else might be going on with them that we don't know about
     
    Critter Mom likes this.
  61. robr

    robr Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Warren seems to know when he's in really deep ****. It's been 12 days since his last accident.
     
  62. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Hi Rob,

    Very glad to hear that things have been improving with Warren.

    Is there anything that changed in the last 12 days in or around the home environment or with the neighbourhood cats - even something we humans might think is small/trivial? If yes, then that could give you some insight into what might be a trigger for Warren's accidents.


    Mogs
    .
     
  63. robr

    robr Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Nothing ever changes around here. Only change I made was when I once again thought it was the end for him, I stopped giving him cosequin, but he'd been on it for months so I doubt that was related at all.
     
  64. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Did the improper toileting stop after the cosequin was stopped?

    Brainstorming here. Is he sensitive/allergic to beef? According to the link below dogs who are allergic to beef may react adversely to cosequin:

    https://www.vetinfo.com/cosequin-side-effects-dogs.html

    A lot of cats are sensitive to beef.

    This page has info on GI side effects:

    http://www.livestrong.com/article/93118-cosequin-side-effects/

    Also, some humans may have allergic reactions (including people allergic to shellfish - another common cat allergen) / kidney issues with supplements containing the same active ingredients as cosequin.

    http://www.livestrong.com/article/54059-glucosamine-chondroitin-side-effects/

    Is there a clinincal reason for stopping Warren's cosequin? If you do start giving it to him again and his toileting problems re-emerge, then I'd suggest stopping it again and letting your vet know (and maybe check Warren's kidney function and urine again).



    Mogs
    .
     
    Dyana likes this.
  65. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Interesting that some dogs get diarrhea from Cosequin.
    I've been thinking about you and Warren. Anti-jinx on wishing you two The Best.
     
    Critter Mom likes this.
  66. robr

    robr Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Total jinx. He peed in the basket of cat toys today. I stopped cosequin only because he was a couple of days away from being put to sleep and I figured there wasn't much point in continuing and his food probably tastes better without and I wouldn't have to lock him in the bathroom with his food to avoid cat food sharing between the other cats
     
  67. Dyana

    Dyana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2009
    Sorry. I tried.

    I'm keeping you and Warren in my prayers.

    Peeing on the cat toys sounds territorial.
     
    Critter Mom likes this.
  68. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2016
    I wonder if he views being locked in the bathroom as a punishment, and he's stressing out because he's 'losing face' with the other cats. By losing face, I mean his position within the clowder is shaky, and so he's more stressed out by being locked in the bathroom than being with the other cats at mealtime..and he's spraying all over in an attempt to reassert his dominance. Perhaps if you fed him up high, and discouraged the other cats from jumping up to his bowl? You might have to hover a bit while he eats, to make sure the other kitties don't harrass him, but he would feel more in control of his life.
     
  69. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    Yes, Dyana, sounds territorial to me, too.

    Rob, it's been a long time since I read your original posts so please excuse me if this has already been covered. Does he seem at all territorial in any other aspect? Are there neighborhood cats who he may sometimes glimpse from a window or door? I have a civvie who is extremely territorial; he expresses it primarily by peeing on one of the other cats (Squallie, my sugar cat) and on my bed, where it is near one of his favorite windows and he can look out and see any other cat that might be in the area. The floor in front of the back door is another favorite spot. He has also, on occasion, peed on/sprayed my sofa. I know there are cats in my community who are allowed to roam, and although I never see them, he must. My guy does not seem territorial in any other way and gets along well with his three housemates.
     
    Critter Mom likes this.
  70. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Hey Rob, I have a civvie cat who goes out of the box whenever he doesn't get let outside fast enough or fed fast enough and once when we were renovating our house he was doing it a lot. An AC told me that he "hated the smells in our house, they were making him sick" She asked me if we were painting, yes, painting, refinishing hard wood floors and tile work. PEE U. It was amazing that he told her that. We got a air purifier from Alpine and used feliaway spray in all his favorite spots to lay. It stopped. Now just recently he started again about once a week, always right in front of me, thanks goodness. The AC told me to talk to him "heart to heart" you don't even have to say it out loud, just tell him that it needs to stop and how much upset it is causing your household and if he wants to continue to live there , it need to stop. I just had this "talk" with Forrest and we'll see what happens. Maybe I need to talk to the AC again because it was years ago. Good luck with Warren.
     
    Critter Mom likes this.
  71. Bobbie And Bubba

    Bobbie And Bubba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2015
    Nice insight, Jeanne.
     
  72. robr

    robr Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    It's been a good month. No-jinxes. :)
     
  73. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Great to hear from you Rob!!....even better that it's been a good month for Warren!! (anti-jinx)
     
  74. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    So glad to hear Warren has had a good month!!! (Anti-jinx, anti-jinx!)
     
  75. Jeanne & Dottie

    Jeanne & Dottie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2016
    LOL I had at one time, two doberman pinschers, brother and sister. Chopper had such a nice temperament that I wanted another dog from the same match...(both were neutered at the appropriate age. Chopper was already neutered by the time I got Belle. )

    I acquired the sister from a litter a year or so later than the male dog. When she arrived, Belle was very bossy, and being a youngster, took it upon herself to claim everything in sight. This annoyed Chopper no end. One day, after Belle had taken a really nice toy for herself, and settled herself with it in a doggie bean-bag chair, I watched as Chopper strolled over, lifted his leg, and peed right on her face! The expression on Belle's face, (and probably my own) was priceless..with rivulets dripping over her eyes and down her muzzle. She dropped the toy, which he immediately picked up, and carried off

    I had to squelch an urge to laugh out loud. But, I couldn't have such behavior going on all the time. Not in my house. Mommy had to establish some kind of order. I punished Chopper by dragging him back to the chair, making Belle get out of the chair, and making him lie in his own wet mess. And when Belle went to pick up that toy again, I took it away from her, too. Nobody got to play with that toy for a while.

    Chopper never did that to Belle again.
     
  76. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Delighted to hear that Warren has had a good month, Rob. (Anti-jinx, anti-jinx.)

    How are his BG levels?


    Mogs
    .
     
  77. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    Hoping Warren is still doing wonderful! Hugs to you both!! :)
     
  78. Cat girl

    Cat girl Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2015
    Him deciding to pee on a friends shoes says his problems had to do with anxiety and stress.the presence of the "new" shoes with strange smell made him nervous so he marked them with his scent.im glad warren is getting better though.seems he is getting less anxious and stressed.just a cat being sick can cause them to become stressed and do strange behavior.
     
  79. robr

    robr Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Thanks very much for checking in Kate, I was waiting for April to post an update. I feel like I'm jinxed whenever I post here, so unless there's something new to report, I'm keeping it to every couple of months.
    He is doing very well, only one accident in Feb and one in March (while we were away on vacation). Big change from the almost daily accidents we had going on for so long.
     
  80. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    So wonderful to hear he is doing so well!!!
     
    robr likes this.
  81. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Anti-jinx, anti-jinx!!! :cat:

    Your update is music to my ears, Rob. Please can you give some scritches to Warren from his No. 1 Fan from across the pond.

    [​IMG]


    Mogs
    .
     
    Cat girl and Kate and Kloever like this.
  82. Mogmom and Goofus

    Mogmom and Goofus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2014

    So glad to ear Warren is doing well, and I TOTALLY understand the jinx thing, I'm the same way. :nailbiting: I have a small favor to ask, would you be a doll, and change the name of this thread or perhaps start a new one with your next update? Whenever I see the the title of this thread, I always think, "OH NO"! So many of us have lost our kitties in the last few weeks, I guess I'm getting jumpy. :confused:
     
    Critter Mom likes this.
  83. dpl_hcm

    dpl_hcm Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    this seems like what my cat is doing minus the poop issue,what ended up actually stopping him from peeing?
     
  84. Kate and Kloever

    Kate and Kloever Member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2015
    What FANTASTIC news!!!! I'm so happy for you both!!! Have a GREAT weekend!! Happy Easter!!! XO :D
     
  85. robr

    robr Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    I'll see if the forum will allow me to change the name but definitely don't want to start a new thread. I lose my entire community of support that way and have to start over as people slowly subscribe again.
     
  86. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Much better subject line Rob!!

    It's just amazing how well Warren is doing....especially considering where you were at the beginning of this saga.

    If you did start a new thread, I doubt if you'd lose many of us....I know I watch for Warren updates and I'm sure a lot of us that have been following along do too, but at least with the new subject line, my heart won't skip a beat each time you update....wondering if something finally went terribly wrong.

    Go Warren buddy!! If you only knew how many of us were pulling for you!!....but alas, you're a cat and don't concern yourself with such things ;):cat:
     
  87. robr

    robr Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    I totally understand, my heart also jumps when I see the (previous) subject. Makes me think back to the time I posted this so long ago. I didn't realize you could change the subject or I would have long ago. Again I'm so thankful for all of you who have come along for this ride over the past year. We're less than two months away from Warren's 16th birthday, last year I wasn't sure he was going to make his 15th. Thank you all.
     
  88. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Sorry if you know this already, Rob, but if you go to the top of the thread and click on Thread Tools it should allow you to change the subject line.

    Sending scritches for Warren and :bighug:s for you.


    Mogs
    .

    PS: Not sure if you changed the title before I posted this - I clicked through to the thread from my alerts and it had the previous subject line in the list. :oops: :oops: :oops:
     
  89. robr

    robr Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    April was completely issue free. My wife commented the other day how healthy Warren has been the past couple of months. Huge strides there for her to recognize that. I just finished up the 4th pen of the 5 Lantus pen pack, so I'm getting about 3 months per pen. Vet gave me a prescription for another 5. So it cost me less than $150 for his insulin for the past year. Can't complain about that. The needles and test strips cost far more.
     
  90. Misterbeesmom

    Misterbeesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2016
    Hey i'm new here but i read the beginning of your thread and then your recent entries and i gotta say i'm so glad everything has gotten better and that you're all in a much happier place these days!!
     
  91. Chris & China

    Chris & China Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    If you got your Lantus from Marks in Canada, you don't need a new script....You just have to call and re-order

    Great to hear that Warren is still doing so well!! (anti-jinx!)
     
    Critter Mom likes this.
  92. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    I am so happy to hear how well Warren is doing!!! No NDW.png You have done such a wonderful job caring for him, Rob! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
  93. Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA)

    Cathie and Shaak Ti (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2016
    So very ecstatic to hear Warren is doing so well, and glad to know your wife is on board now. I will continue to keep you, your wife and Warren in my prayers.
     
  94. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Very interesting to know, Chris.


    Mogs
    .
     
  95. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Nicking that anti-jinx icon! :)


    Mogs
    .
     
    Squalliesmom likes this.
  96. Critter Mom

    Critter Mom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Great update, Rob! Long may this continue. I'm extremely pleased for you all. :cat:


    Mogs
    .
     
  97. Kathy1980

    Kathy1980 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2016
    My friend's cat has diabetes and is not treated. He has been unregulated for about 5 years. He always pees outside the litter box, about 10cm away. They just put down puppy pads around the box. He is very old, pushing 17 or so.
     
  98. Squalliesmom

    Squalliesmom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2015
    @Critter Mom Lol, that's okay, I nicked it from someone else!
     
    Critter Mom likes this.
  99. Cat girl

    Cat girl Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2015
    So glad warren is doing 100% better!!way to go warren and you guys for sticking it thru with him.give warren kisses for me!:kiss::bighug:
     
  100. robr

    robr Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Cross fingers for Warren. He has had a bad couple of weeks where he basically stopped using the litterbox altogether. He's living back in the bathroom for now, no accidents for the 5 days he's been in there. He hangs out in the window but I let him out to sit on my lap in the evenings. I feel bad about that, he is such a social guy. His BG levels look fine (I havent really updated the spreadsheet but I've been checking) but he is drinking a lot more than usual again. This has happened a couple of times over the past year as some of you recall, then after a few weeks, he just stopped having problems for no apparent reason. Hopefully that will be the case again.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page