Week 1 #s (new to forum)

Hey
We just joined the forum and can't thank the community enough. Our little 13 yr old man has been diagnosed and started getting insulin. Here's the relion micro results from Ollie's first week on glargine. We switched him from a 90% dry food diet to wet food only (less than 10% carbs). We're going to the vet next Monday for a curve as they didn't love the relion numbers. They recommend alpha track. What does anyone think about his progress and dosage?

 

welcome to the forum.

we are pretty used to the google chart we have and it would be great if you could create one....
how to create fdmb spreadsheet

but I see numbers below 50 ( with a human meter) so that means Mr. Ollie has earned a reduction
in dose .....

very often just the food change can lower numbers... (by as much as 100 )
we just want to keep him safe so your next dose needs to go down to 1.75 u.

please continue your random testing as he may go down again sometime today.... and it's great when you
can catch it. If he goes below 50 at any time, post for help.....
someone will stay with you and talk you thru getting his numbers back up.....

you don't need to pay the vet for a curve....
you are testing yourself.

many vets don't "delegate" this to the caregiver.....
but generally all kitties are less stressed at home, and their numbers are more accurate
with you testing...... plus you save money.

there are several sticky's at the top of this forum's page.....
it would be beneficial for you to start reading....
and print this one how to treat hypo


you don't need an alpha trak.... they are expensive and the strips for them are even more expensive.
you can do a comparison test when at the vet's between your meter and his meter....

 

Hello and Welcome,

Our ss is pretty similar to the pic you have, we all link it to our signatures and keep it updated.
Your kitty seems to be hitting some low numbers, that 43 a couple of days ago was low, and for most of us here with a newly diagnosed kitty that would signal a dose reduction. We usually change dose by 0.25u, but that will require you to be using syringes with 0,5u markings, as he is still on the 2u I would be vigilant as you have been doing he is likely to drop again if he continues on this dose.
Here's a link to the
Shooting and Handling low numbers sticky
Please get your numbers into our ss so it will be easier for the more experienced folk to look at and advise you on safe dosing.

Sorry this message is short I have to go off line now, running late already

Keep asking questions we are here to help and support you

 

Another note on those numbers in the 40s...when you see numbers like that, you want intervene with high carb food and/or karo to bring the BG numbers up, as they are encroaching on hypo range. When you are trying to raise a kitty's BGs with food, you don't want to feed a lot - maybe a tablespoon. The reason for this is because you want them to stay a little hungry in case you need to feed them again, plus you don't want a "scarf and barf" situation on your hands.

Additionally, with low numbers like that, you want to monitor closely - initially testing every half hour to confirm that the high carb food brought the BGs up to a safe range, and then you can spread out the testing a little bit, keeping in mind that the high carb food will wear off and the numbers can come down again. Ideally we aim for 2 tests in a row that are above 50 and that are NOT food-influenced.

I do agree with Rhiannon - no need to pay a vet for a curve when you are doing a great job of testing at home, and there is no need for an AlphaTrak. Also, a curve at the vet is not going to be as accurate as a curve you run at home, as vet stress influences the BGs in many kitties (most kitties go up; a few - like mine - go down when under stress). Therefore, dose recommendations made under those circumstances are not going to be accurately reflective of what Ollie truly needs. Most vets aren't use to the numbers we see on a human meter, but the numbers are consistent and we just compensate for the difference.

As Gill said, please keep asking questions!

 

btw, if you need help setting up that ss....
there are some here who can do that for you.. just ask...

 

Thanks everyone! I will get the spreadsheet going, but have been overwhelmed during the past week.
There's a little more to the story which might end up with the vet performing a curve this one time. We learned about the diabetes when we did a blood test to see if he's ok to undergo anesthesia (needs a tooth pulled). If it helps them feel comfortable and gets the tooth out sooner, I'm ok with it. I'm hoping to check my meter against theirs while there.
I really appreciate the evaluations and would welcome anymore. I'd like to have my plan in mind prior to the vet curve. I know they are the authorities on pet care, but feel empowered by the volume of information this site and its members knowledge.

 

Hi All! I just filled out the spreadsheet for Ollie. I hope I did it right. Here is the link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eqFUlbZEdHqHYLIdp6Jp-eJUAmTxqluQK8gwSS6s3r0/pubhtml
Thanks again for all your help and guidance!

 

Perfect job on the spreadsheet! Now take that link and go to your profile, edit your signature block and paste it there. Then every time you post, your spreadsheet link will be there. Other info that's good to put in your signature block is diagnosis date, kitty's age, if you feed any dry food or if it's just low carb, and if he's got any other known medical problems.

Couple of thoughts - I agree that you need to reduce the dose. You don't want to continue giving a dose that can get him into the 40's. I'd drop the dose to 1.75u and stay there for at least a few days unless he goes into low numbers again (under 50 on your human glucometer.)

You'll want to look at the Tight Regulation Protocol and the Start Low Go Slow yellow boxed stickies and decide which one you think might work for you.

If he needs dental work done, getting that done will likely improve his blood sugar. Infections can drive up blood sugar. There are a couple of good links in the "Basics, New to the Group?" sticky - look near the bottom in the single topic posts - about dentals. Anesthesia can lower blood sugar, so reducing the dose and potentially skipping a shot are things to consider for the day of the dental. People here can help you if you post that day. Also anesthesia can reduce gut motility, causing cats to vomit, so you want to go easy on food after the procedure. We fed a teaspoon of food every 20 minutes or so until we were sure that things were going to stay down.

It's common for diabetic cats to need dentals done - sugar in the saliva can mean tooth problems, so there is lots of experience on here for dealing with dentals.

Overall it looks like you're off to a great start! Please ask as many questions as you have. None of us mind answering, and it's good for you to understand how to help Ollie. Here is a thread, "Where Can I Find?" that may be helpful in helping you find info in this group (the Lantus/Lev Insulin Support Group.)

 

Hello. We're having a low number night. After a 34, we gave Ollie some sugar milk and honey and He ate some wet food on his own. Going to retest.

 

Retest is 66. I hate these night lows. We didn't drop the dosage to 1.75 as recommended, but really wish we had. Would a drop to 1.5 make sense? How should we go about the morning dose?

 

I'm going to try to get some extra eyes on this for you. In the meantime, you need to be testing Ollie every 15-20 minutes until we're sure his numbers are safe. Presently, the risk is that the numbers will go back down into dangerous territory once the sugar milk and honey wear off. So we need to be ready for action.

What high carb foods do you currently have available?

Do you have the number and location of the nearest 24-hour emergency veterinary hospital?

Are you able to stay up all night if you need to?

Do you have enough strips and testing supplies to get you through the night?

How long ago did he get his shot? If you can update your spreadsheet with his current numbers, it will greatly assist those who are able to help you.

 

Trying to figure the update on the ss. Just got a 79

 

We're having an issue getting the ss to automatically update. It seems I don't have excel, which is where the instructions say to save it to. Can anyone help us figure out the auto ss update?

 

You shouldn't have to download it to make changes. If you're logged in with your Google account, go to http://docs.google.com/spreadsheets Then select & open Ollie's spreadsheet and make the appropriate new entries. Once that happens, it will update automatically so that anyone who visits the link in your signature line can see the latest results.

We can wait on the bookkeeping for now. How's Ollie doing?

 

Ok great. It looks like he's gone from 34 to 87 in about 90 minutes right? Did he get the sugar milk, honey, and food at 2.5? Has he had anything since?

 

After snacking and giving a few blood drops, he went back to sleep. The rising numbers seem consistent with previous nights, but the 34 was a bit of a shock. The plan is to drop him to 1.75 for a while, but I'd like to make the night dose 1.5. Does that seem ok? We're going out tomorrow night and want some piece of mind that he's going to be okay.

 

I don't really have any experience with dosing advice beyond Jenks, so I can't confidently tell you what to do.

I must not see the rising numbers you mentioned because it looks like Ollie goes down and doesn't reach his nadir (lowest point) until +5 or +6, which means he still has an hour or two to go until the most active part of his cycle. So I'd recommend remaining vigilant and continuing your tests for as long as possible. At these numbers, it's probably safe to back off to an hourly basis.

The 34 earns him an immediate reduction of 0.25U. Please make sure you take that reduction in the morning.

Lantus requires consistent dosing to be effective. So I can't recommend giving different doses in the morning and the evening. If Ollie were my cat and prone to such quick & precipitous drops, I'd probably feel safest skipping the shot tomorrow night if I was going to be away from the house during his most active time and unable to keep an eye on him. Better too high for a day than too low for a moment.

But I urge you to ask this question tomorrow during the day so you can get more informed opinions.

 

High carb foods/sugar/syrup can wear off after a couple of hours. I'd keep testing until at least 2 hours after you first gave him those carbs when he got to 34. He really wants that lower dose in the morning.

Another reason not to do a curve at the vet is that often kitty is stressed and has higher numbers at the vet. My non diabetic cat once tested over 200 at the vets office, and 53 next day at home. The only time Neko had a curve at the vet, she was over 300 all day, hissing and stressed. You don't want to figure out what dose to give based on stress inflated blood glucose numbers. Which is why it's great that you are testing at home.

 

Cool, thanks! Its a lot to take in this first week and very overwhelming. I'll see what the day responses are.

 

It's hard enough to just assimilate all of the info you're being exposed to here. But to have a cat with such a strong initial response to the insulin AND who likes to keep you up for pajama parties by going low at night? Welcome to the wonderful world of feline diabetes my friend! hehe

I think his response to the insulin is very promising though. I'm very hopeful he's one of the lucky ones who goes into remission soon after starting treatment!

Please keep us updated with addition tests tonight because he's not necessarily out of the woods just yet.

 

Just tested +5 72. It's been nearly 2 hrs since we loaded Ollie with sugar and he seems to be fine. He had a super small bowl of sugar milk just now to be safe. I'm heading to bed, but will check back in tomorrow, thanks a ton for being around.

 

I hope you can check him in a few hours. That 72 indicates the food and carbs might be wearing off and there's not really enough data to know how his numbers will handle that.

 

Sugar milk wears off, as you've now seen. Leaving regular low carb food can help him stay in good numbers. If you can't monitor, it's always good to leave some food for them to snack on if they feel low.

 

checking in....

see he has gone up today.... that's what we call a bounce....it's normal....
his body dumps counterregulatory hormones in response to the low number.....
it's the body's way of protecting itself.

don't react to it and go up in dose.....
stay with the 1.75 ( unless he drops below 50)... then we'll decide about that....

 

Ollie seems to be coming back to into some nice blues.

 

welcome to the sugar dance