Weight loss in regulated cat part 3

Discussion in 'Feline Health - (Welcome & Main Forum)' started by Waheeda, May 9, 2017.

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  1. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    Why are the readings after pmps all pink whereas in the day I do get blues and yellows. Even at 3.2u. I seem to get better readings at 3.0u. Shld I go back to 3?
     
  2. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Those are bounce numbers from the green yesterday. Stay with 3.2 u for another cycles or two to see if the bouncing stops so you can assess the dose better.
     
  3. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Yup, what Kris said :D
     
  4. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    So the green is for real? :kiss:
    It's kinda sudden cos it moves from yellow to green. But if it is I'll take it! Hahaha
    The amps was 400+ but I still shot 3.2u. The numbers are going crazy that I'm getting lost.
    Thanks to u all for the guidance. Appreciate it. :bighug:
     
  5. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    PM cycle and morning AMPS is indicating the 84 may have been accurate after all :D
     
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  6. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    How long do they usually bounce? I take it that as his body gets used to lower number, he'll bounce less?
     
  7. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Bounces can last up to 6 cycles (3 days) but I'm sure there are kitty's that don't follow this and bounce a little longer or all the time ;)
     
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  8. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    Do they bounce the whole day? His nite cycles have been high but I din test yesterday's am cycle so not sure where it stood. Will try to get +5 this am. Hope he stays away from the pink n red. Was looking at your SS n u seemed to get green readings after switching meter. Is this true? Or there was a chge in food?
     
  9. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Some kitties, like Kris's Teasel bounce all the time. Started getting more greens when I started cutting Purina DM dry and then transitioning onto Young Again Zero. Paid better attention to wet food carbs too.
     
  10. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    Would u know if YA helps to reduce or stop the bounce? Any data showing that?
     
  11. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Pretty sure bouncing is a physiological response, so I am not sure if YA directly effects the bouncing.
     
  12. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    Ok thks!
     
  13. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    Hi all,
    Help!!!!
    Tested at +5 n it was 219. At +6 it went down to 52. Repeated test. I put some honey on his tooth/gum n fed him FF. will test again in half hr. I guess 3.2u is a bit too high? Scary how he jumped so much within the hour.
     
  14. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    Went up to 140 in half hour. Scary! Definitely need a lower dose rite? He was free feeding on YA cos I forgot to take it away this am.
     
  15. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    Hi @JanetNJ
    Help! Need a new scale.
     
  16. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I think I'd go down from that 3.2 back to 3. Your cat is very effected by carbs. When you feed him at +2 it is keeping his levels in the 200's... Then the food wears off and it zooms down at +6. If you see that lower number at 6 d(unless it's below 50 of course) don't run for the honey.... It's over correcting him. Hour 6 is most likely the lowest he will be as vetsulin peeks about then (usually between 4-6)... So instead of honey, just a spoonful or two of ff classic if you need to steer unless it dips lower.

    If you are willing to give it a go, try my feeding schedule of wet morning and evening and leave the young again food out to graze on. I think it will eliminate the elevated numbers 2-5 hours past shot so it's not that huge dive down suddenly.
     
  17. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    I was so worried dat I gave him only 2.4u. First time it went so low. Was tempted to do 2.8u but this am d amps was 400+ n it dived to 50+. So I went on the safe path.
    yes definitely will giv ur schedule a try. I thk he's liking YA now.
    Thanks for replying fast. Was in 2 minds which way to go with d pmps.
     
  18. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I think the 2.4 was a good call for that pmps. Ok...

    250-300 2.4
    300-350 2.6-2.8
    350 and over 3

    But monitor it because her needs seem to be changing... And any time you won't be able to, then be more conservative... Ok?
     
  19. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    Yes I'm good with conservative approach. Now I wonder if he will bounce tonite. So below 50 then I giv honey? But he was so famished at +6. Finished off 2 cans. Dats one of the sign of hypo rite?
     
  20. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    Just thinking aloud. This am I fed him at +2 n left for work. Took his reading at +5 n +6 n it plunged. So if I don't feed him anythg at +6, wldnt it be dangerous? The bowl of YA was with him n I saw him eating it 20 mins before +6. I know vetsulin peaks at +6 but if it goes down another 10-15 mins then he'll be at a dangerous level. So how do I tackle this if I were to feed him wet only twice a day n graze whole day?
     
  21. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    If you decide to go ahead and just leave ya out, let's reduce that dose significantly and see what happens. You can always raise it later if it's not enough. Is that what you want to try? Maybe let's wait until the weekend or a day you are home to try any major changes, ok?
     
  22. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    If you are not home until later today, do what you normally do, but lower that higher dose down. You can lower even more if you are concerned. If you want to take those levels you used to shoot 3.2 down to 2.8 instead of 3 then do that!
     
  23. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    Yes it will be good if I don't have to come home at +6 to feed him. And I won't worry if cos of work I can't pop by to chk on him. Looks like the YA is really effective in bringing down the numbers. I only put a teaspoon in his wet n he only ate a few kibbles n we cld see the big drop.
    But how low do u thk we cld go? Need to find a day I'm home whole day.
     
  24. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I hues it would depend on the preshot.... Do you have any days coming up that you'll be home?
     
  25. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    We need to do a curve again? Sunday is a possibility. I just need to run an errand in the morning for abt 1 1/2hrs.
     
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  26. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    Hi @JanetNJ ,
    Is it true u Hv to discard the vial of vetsulin after 42 days? The vet did not tell me and I have been using the same vial since Feb. I Hv bought a new vial but it's caninsulin and they said it's the same.
    My question is do I reduce the dose when I use the new vial? I can't believe it that the receptionist said d vet is not aware.
     
  27. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I've found it lasts a good three months at least, provided it's stored properly. What's up with your cat wanting to stay in pink all night. tell him to knock it off . lol
     
  28. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    Phew! So it's ok for 3 mths. I was getting mad with the vets. Yup stored in the fridge all the time. Oh but mine is 7 days after 3 mths. So I shall change tmr.
    Ya he's yellow during the day n pink at nite. Must be his favourite colours. Lol! Oh but he din ask for wet food every few hours. Only gave him after d amps n pmps. N he's grazing on YA rest of time. Hope to see improvement in readings soon. Keep paws crossed!
     
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  29. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    So new vial no need to lower the dose?
     
  30. Larry and Kitties

    Larry and Kitties Well-Known Member

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    I would say it depends on if you were increasing the dose to maintain BGs. Also, if the low point of BG is very low, like below 70, I would be inclined to reduce dose a little with a new vial
     
  31. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I think since you just reduced it should be fine. Don't think it will be much different
     
  32. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    Thank u!
     
  33. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    Ok thanks much! He gave me yellow last nite n this morning amps too.
     
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  34. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Wow great amps! And finally a yellow at night!!!
     
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  35. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    It's his best amps yet! Just keep watch since we haven't gotten any data at this level yet. Very exciting progress.
     
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  36. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Look a that lovely blue for Sunday morning cycle :cool:
     
  37. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    Yes! N most likely on sat at +6 too!
    I increased the dose today at pmps by 0.2 from Janet's scale. Hope to see a blue later, paws crossed! Also trying to feed him wet only twice a day as advised by Janet but failed today cos he gave me a sad face at noon.
     
  38. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Are you leaving him YA out in between the wet food meals? Those sad faces, they know how to work us! :smuggrin:
     
  39. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    Yes he has YA all day long and he is eating them. Such a relief! I din even take it away from him 2 hrs before test.
    When u see his wobbly walk and sad eyes, u just give in to him.
     
  40. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Are you giving b12? If you are, can you add it to your signature?
     
  41. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    Janet,
    Your recommended scale :

    250-300 2.4
    300-350 2.6-2.8
    350 and over 3

    What about 250 n below?

    Based on past few days readings, I'm upping your scale by 0.2.

    What's the relationship between BG n insulin dose? Is there a formula or graph to refer to? I've been googling with no success.
     
  42. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Nope, no formula because every cat reacts differently. 1 unit in one cat may drop the numbers like a stone. 1 unit in another cat may have little effect at all. This is why you need to start low and track the numbers to see how each cat reacts and adjust accordingly. In addition an individual cat may react differently to a dose which is why the dose (scale) needs to be studied and changed often. How the cat reacted to a dose two weeks ago, may be too much or too little today.
     
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  43. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    At a 214 amps 2 units seemed like it didn't take him down enough. Next time he's 200-250 let's do 2.4 and then you are shooting everything else up by.2.

    If you can't test though, err on the side of caution. I'd hate for your kitty to hypo when you aren't around to steer.
     
  44. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    I noticed that too. But he's eating more YA now compared to last week. Not sure how this will affect d BG tho.
    I still don't understand the green n lime green of last week. Even tho d dose was a bit higher, he had food few times that morning. His BG shld not Hv dropped that much I thought.
     
  45. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Cats like to screw with ya. Lol
     
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  46. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    Best answer! Lol! N so true.
     
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  47. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    What about 130-200? I did 0.8 for 180 before.
    Can I say 130-170 0.4
    170-200 0.8

    Then 200 jumped onwards to 2.4? It's not a linear scale ?
     
  48. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Try it. If you find its not enough then next time you know you can up it a bit.
     
  49. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    It's like playing hide n seek. I up the dosage he came down low. I lowered d dose he stayed up! He's making me nuts! Lol!
    Tonite I'll up 0.2 from this am n see how it goes. Mood wise he seems better. Was kissing noses with d Girl and for a chge he hung out with the rest. As long he's keeping around 100-300 his system is not overworked, am I right? He shld be feeling fine? sometimes he din make it to the box eventho it's near him. Is that an additional problem I shld b worried about? I'm not keen to take him to the vet if u all thk it's nothing serious.
     
  50. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Hey Waheeda, since it sounds like he's attempting to go to the box but not making it, doesn't seem like any major concern to me. He still heads towards it when he gets the urge but it may come on sooner than he expected. Did you get one of those storage containers to make a lower litter box for him? I would just get some training pads around the box so if he doesn't quite make it, it will be easier for you to clean up. If you notice he is deliberately going outside of the box, you may want to get him checked for UTI. But for now, *I think* it's just him having to go like right now. :bighug:
     
  51. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    Hi Yong,
    I wish they have cat diapers that I can use on him! Lol! He's so smelly that we have to bathe him often and of cos he hated it. I'm putting the large adult diapers where he usually sits. He doesn't fancy sitting on it but he's near enuf so if he pees, the diaper can absorb it hopefully. Oh great idea abt the training pads. Will look for them tmr. I got him a shallow box n he does use it. But u know, 1-2 times a day he somehow did it outside the box. I read the signs of UTI n I thk for now it's not it. Hopefully he doesn't get it. Dread the thought of going to the vet.
     
  52. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    They actually do make diapers for cats and dogs:
    [​IMG]
    This is a washable one but they do have disposable too. Multiple sizes
     
  53. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    Oh wow! I din know this. Not seen them at the pet stores here. I'm definitely gonna buy n try. He will probably hate it. Have u used them before?
     
  54. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Personally, no. When I was a kid and our dog got old and had bladder control issues, we just bought baby diapers and cut a hole for her tail :p
     
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  55. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    I was looking forward to get a good pmps cos last few days he has been on yellows n blues n dang! What did I get? A red! :( What an anti-climax.
     
  56. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Might just be a little bounce :bighug:
     
  57. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    I looked at your SS n u get bounces here n there too. Guess we just Hv to live with it.
     
  58. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Yup. There are a couple kitty's that bounce a lot more, like all the time though ;)
     
  59. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    Such cats can never be regulated then? Poor kitties.
     
  60. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    They make their own definition of regulated :). Kris and Teasel is #2 post is one of the bouncy kitty's that makes his own rules.
     
  61. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    Yup a bounce. Pink at +6. Hopefully tmr will be better.
     
  62. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    Hi,
    A question on bouncing.
    We had a blue pre shot before n I gave 0.8u n he ended up bouncing. Today we had another blue at pmps n I gave 1u n he ended up bouncing again. So next time I Hv a blue pre shot, do I up the dose some more?

    Since he seems to bounce each time we Hv a blue, does it make sense for me to delay the shot, feed him n wait till his BG move to yellow or pink? Cos I do know wat dose to give at yellow or pink which will make him stay in yellow or blue. Does this make sense?
     
  63. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Hi Waheeda,
    The answer is not set in stone for if you should increase each time. So I will suggest only increase a little at a time, so your next try would be 1.2U, and make sure you can monitor and test him later. This was my boy's "normal" pattern for a while but he threw a wrench in the works one time and didn't bounce back up :facepalm:. 19 April PM cycle.

    The second suggestion, I would actually try first, which is called stalling. So you got 196 for PMPS. Do not feed. Wait 20 minutes and retest.
    1. If the next reading rises above 200, try your dose based on Janet's dosing scale for over 200.
    2. If the number stays the same or drops, you can stall for another 20 minutes (still without feeding).
    3. If he drops below 150, I would suggest skipping the shot that cycle until you get more data for that pattern.
    4. Finally, if he stays in the >150 - 200 range, give a reduced dose and absolutely get additional tests like you did before. +2 and +4 are good :)

    Sorry for all the "If this..." scenarios
     
  64. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    Hi Yong
    No apologies needed. I understand.
    I'll try the stalling method next time this happens. But that will kind of mess up the 12/12 cycle. Can I shorten next cycle to keep to my usual shot times?
     
  65. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Well your pre-shot time should be 30 minutes before giving insulin shot so should only make it about 10 - 15 minutes late :)
     
  66. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    Oops I've been giving him insulin abt 10 mins after testing. Cos after test I will feed him n while he's eating I will shoot. Otherws he will hide after he eats. Does it matter?
     
  67. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    I've always read with faster acting insulins like Vetsulin it is preferable to wait about 20 minutes after feeding to give the shot.
    From the sticky: Please make sure that there is always food on board before you inject this insulin. Schedule is best with test, feed, shoot, within about 30 minutes.

    I'll tag @JanetNJ and let her confirm your current schedule :). Obviously, will be harder to give him a shot if he ran and hid ;)
     
  68. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    As long as he's eating well it's probably ok
     
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  69. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    Thanks @JanetNJ and @Yong.
    A sad day today. One of my cats left us. We had him for 11 years. Had respiratory problem yesterday and at 12:40am today he left us. Heartbreaking.
     
  70. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry you've lost one of your kitties. :rb_icon:cat_wings>o
     
  71. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Oh no! I'm so sorry! This was a sudden illness?
     
  72. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Sorry for your loss, Waheeda :bighug:. May fond memories of them warm your heart always cat_wings>o
     
  73. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    Out of d blue he was panting on Thursday evening. Rushed him to d vet n she said it's an allergy reaction n his lungs were congested. Put on a drip n gave medicine n he bcame better n we brought him home. Fri am and lunch time he was ok but I came back at 6pm n he din look good. Rushed to the vet again n put on drip n oxygen tank and his breathing improved. At midnite vet sent us home with d oxygen machine. She said he shld b ok but 10 mins at home he vomited n had seizure. We rushed him to an emergency clinic n he's alrdy gone.
    Couldn't believe it. He's such a gd darling, easy to care for n such a sweetheart. We r heartbroken. This is so painful.
     
  74. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Wow. They don't think it was heart failure?
     
  75. Waheeda

    Waheeda Well-Known Member

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    No. Blood test showed organs all ok.
     
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