where do I go from here

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by shawna, Apr 28, 2017.

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  1. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Apr 28, 2017
    Hello,
    I'm new to this forum. My best friend, my cat Theodore, was diagnosed with diabetes about two weeks ago. He's almost 14 and he has arthrtis in one spot too.
    I'm having such a hard time because it just all seems overwhelming and confusing to me!!
    His blood sugar was in the high 300s and so the vet told me to do 2 units twice a day.
    The after the curve they upped it to 4 units twice a day. But Theodore spazzed out all day hissing and growling and they said stress made it go up to the 400s.
    So they upped the dose to the 4 twice a day.

    I bought a human blood sugar meter, the ReliOn, and four hours after his increased insulin it had a reading of 66. Isn't that way too low??
    My vet said I need to buy a meter for cats so I'll be getting that Monday.
    I didn't give insulin this morning because he wouldn't eat much and I tested him at 81.
    Tonight he can't really walk. Why can't he walk!?? He ate really well tonight.

    I just don't know what to do!
    Stressed and sad,
    Theodore's Mom
     
  2. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Jan 11, 2017
    Welcome, glad you were home testing to catch the 66. The "take action" number on human glucometer is 50 and on a pet meter it's 68. You don't need to buy a pet meter, but many Vet's push it because they don't understand human glucometer readings. Jumping from 2.0U to 4.0U is a huge increase! We recommend increasing by 0.25U or 0.5U. Also considering they increased it based on a curve done at the clinic where he was stressed out. Are you on Prozinc? That's where you posted this thread :) We would gladly help you out anyway we can!

    If you could setup your signature with some information, it's helpful to get a glance and for those of us with bad memories: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/editing-your-signature-profile-and-preferences.130340/

    We use Spreadsheets to track BG numbers, you just need a Google account: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
    Ask if you need help setting it up.

    And I like to give this to new members to be prepared: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/
     
  3. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Aug 17, 2016
    Welcome! We can help you get Theodore on track. I assume you posted here because you're using ProZinc?

    We all know that feeling. I promise - it gets better and you'll be amazed at how competent and confident you'll feel in a couple of weeks.

    This is a high starting dose. We recommend starting at 1 unit twice a day.

    This is far too much insulin and a jump up by 2 units is far too large an increase. We recommend increasing by 0.25 units at a time so you don't go right past a good dose by increasing too much.

    Was this when the curve was done at the vet's? The curve can be done by you at home with much less stress for your kitty.

    Congratulations on testing at home! It's the best thing you can do to keep Theodore safe. That is a low blood glucose number. With a human meter the "getting dangerously low" number is 50. He might have gone lower after this test so you'll need to start a structured testing routine to get the best data.

    Some people do this and use it only when doing a curve for the vet. The strips are too expensive to use it day to day so they have the human meter for the rest of the time.

    This is too low for a pre injection number. He might have gone very low overnight and it's possible the problems walking are related to very low blood glucose. Did you give him insulin tonight?
     
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  4. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Just to clarify...you said you didn't give insulin this morning....but did you give him insulin tonight? How many hours has it been since his last dose?
     
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  5. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    If he's still staggering or can't walk well I recommend testing him again as soon as you can. If his blood glucose is low you'll have to bring him up with some food, karo syrup or honey. But test first to see where he's at.
     
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  6. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Thank you so much!!! Yes he is on prozinc. I'll go try to set up the signature now. Thanks so much for the information! I'm so worried I'm going to do something wrong. The vet said his next curve might be best done at home so on Monday I need to ask them how to do it. I'm so glad I found this board. I don't know why my cat can't seem to walk tonight, that is what made me get so upset and scared!
     
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  7. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Ask anything you want about curves, testing, etc. here. We can help! :)
     
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  8. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    What Kris said :D
     
  9. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    A curve is just taking a reading every 2 hours or so for 12 hours to see what's happening. 4 units on a cat just diagnosed is nuts. Most start at 1 unit. Please don't do more than 2 without frequently testing.
     
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  10. shawna

    shawna Member

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    I hope I am replying in the correct spot. Thank you to everyone who wrote, I sincerely appreciate it, with all my heart.
    I gave him the upped dosage of 4 units last night and that's when it dropped so low. So this morning when I didn't give him any insulin he was at 81. So I didn't give him anything and tonight I didn't know what to do because the test said 92, so I fed him and gave him 2 units. (The vet said to go down to 3 units but I'm scared) and I probably shouldn't have given him any insulin again tonight?? But I just don't know what I am doing very much!!
    I tried to test him again tonight but he tried to bite me, which he would never bite me! So I just need to figure out how I'm going to draw a dot of blood without making him angry.
     
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  11. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    You shoot two units at 91? How long ago? You should not have given anything.... I'm actually quite concerned. We usually advise no shots under 200 in the beginning. Please try to get another test.
     
  12. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    If you have to burrito him to get more tests tonight, please do so. Shooting 2.0U on the 92 could send him into Hypo. What time was his shot given? and What time zone are you in? Do you have high carb gravy food, karo, honey, lots of testing strips? Sorry, I don't mean to try and scare you more but definitely do not shoot under 200 right now.
     
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  13. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    If you can't get a test you can play it safe and feed him a little extra without the test until you can get a test. I would try your best to get the test because 2 units on a 92 reading is A LOT. It's not recommended to shoot under 200 when you're first starting out.
    I would feed him 1 tsp of food every half hour until you can get a test. Get the honey/syrup/karo ready too. You might need it.
    Stress can increase his numbers and his numbers probably need to go up at this point so don't worry too much about stressing him out. Try until you get the test.
    Keep in mind once you feed him the number will be food influenced within 20 minutes so keep testing until he's at a safe number without food for 3 tests.

    The hypo link was shared above. Please read through that. It will help you get through this and so will the members on the forum.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2017
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  14. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Apr 28, 2017

    I didn't know I feel so bad now. My vet told me to not do a reading with a human one but to just watch his behavior. I gave him the 2 units at 5pm. See I've been trying to read online about when to give insulin and I just wasn't sure what to do. Oh this is awful. I'll do a test right now.
     
  15. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Ok thank you! I appreciate this information so much. I'll post what his reading is as soon as I get it right now.
     
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  16. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    When you test his ear, don't aim for the vein.... It hurts more. Aim for the area just outside of it.


    I'm going to be honest here.... I don't think your vet knows how to dose. You may want to seek a second opinion. IMG_3612.JPG
     
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  17. shawna

    shawna Member

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    That's what I needed to know - so if his test on a human meter is under 200 does that mean I do not give him any insulin????
     
  18. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    It's okay...we're going to talk you through this, and we'll stay with you. As soon as you get the test, post the number.
     
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  19. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    You can test with a human meter.... Most here do. Under 50 is the time to be very concerned with a human meter. How long ago was the shot?
     
  20. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    How many hours ago was the 2 units given? We need to know where he is in the cycle (the 12 hours after a dose is given) to assess what might happen next. Please post with a new test result ASAP.
     
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  21. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Eventually with more data we would recommend shooting lower, but for the time being Anything under 200 either don't shoot.
     
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  22. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    You're in good hands here.
    I did the "wrong" thing in the beginning too, instructed by my vet. Don't be too hard on yourself.
     
  23. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    If you are ever unsure about what's safe to dose you can reach out on here.... Someone is usually around as it's a very active forum full of experienced people who have lived with this for a while. We are always happy to help.
     
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  24. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Shot was given at 17:00 but not sure what time zone she is in
     
  25. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    To all the old folks on here - I'm afraid we're going to overwhelm Shawna with needing to wade through our cross-posts of basically the same information being shouted at her all at once.

    I'm going to step back and continue to monitor the thread, but I think it would be best if just one of us walks her through this as timing may be critical on this one. Whoever wants to take the lead, just know that I'm here, and if it gets too late in your time zone, I can step back in.
     
  26. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    Ditto. I agree. I'll step back too. I'll be watching.
     
  27. shawna

    shawna Member

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    It's 43. This is terrible
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2017
  28. shawna

    shawna Member

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    I'm sorry I am not trying to be dramatic - and I appreciate every bit of information.
     
  29. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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  30. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    No need to apologize.

    How many hours ago was the shot. Do you have honey on hand? Or Karo?
     
  31. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Eastern - I'm in Florida
     
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  32. shawna

    shawna Member

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    I have honey. How much do I give him? I just gave him more cat food and he is eating it so fast.
     
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  33. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    You'll need to
    If you have high carb food give him that with a bit of honey in it.... But not enough to make him full... Just a spoonful or two. as you will probably be steering the numbers up for a couple of hours.
     
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  34. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Retest in 20 minutes and post the number here.
     
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  35. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Ok so about 6 hours ago. Ok so it will probably hit it's lowest in an hour... So we have to try to get him above 50 for a while.
     
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  36. shawna

    shawna Member

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    The reading was 43.

    Than

    Ok thank you, I don't know what I would have done if I hadn't come across this forum. Thank you, I'll check and post in 20 minutes.
     
  37. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I'm so glad you were able to get that last test. Unfortunately you are going to want to test every 20 min for awhile. Once the numbers are safe we want to see 3 rising numbers that are not food influenced to say for sure he's safe.



    You may want to put on a pot of coffee. Lol


    Listen don't panic.... You aren't alone.
     
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  38. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Thank you! So thankful to know that.
     
  39. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Ok the pot of coffee comment made me smile. You guys are the absolute best. Ok I'm trying to be more calm now....this gets so upsetting especially since I don't feel confident with the numbers and what to do, etc. yet.

    He ate some food and Licked a couple drops of honey. I set my phone timer for 20 minutes to test again.

    Thank you....
     
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  40. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    In a few months you'll be talking a new set of new people off the cliff.... Just watch. Most of us have been there, and most of us had no f'ing clue what we were doing in the beginning.

    You're testing right out of the gate which is better than I was. I didn't start until 6 weeks after diagnosis.
     
  41. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Should be due for the next test about now. How is he acting? Let us know immediately if he seems wobbly or disoriented.
     
  42. shawna

    shawna Member

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    After he ate that food so fast he immediately went back to sleep. Ok I'll test him
     
  43. shawna

    shawna Member

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    It read 81 now! How much is it suppose to go up in twenty minutes? Is that good that it went up to 81??
     
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  44. shawna

    shawna Member

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    I think I posted in the wrong place, but it went up to 81, is that good for twenty minutes?? Do I give him more food?
     
  45. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Let's wait and see without food and see what it is. In 20 min test again. If it goes down do the food and honey again.
     
  46. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    That 81 is still influenced by the food you have him before.... He should be hitting the peek of the insulin around midnight, but I'm glad he's over 50. Please keep monitoring. I know it's late but he could still drop.

    You are doing awesome by the way.
     
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  47. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Ok oh goodness thank you. I'll check in twenty minutes. I hope you know I'm forever grateful for your help and everyone's help. This is so scary.
     
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  48. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Tomorrow morning don't be surprised if the number is on the high side. Cats usually bounce high after going too low. It's the body's way of protecting itself.
     
  49. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    You're doing great Shawna! :bighug:
     
  50. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Well thank goodness you test.... Could have been bad if you weren't! Well done!
     
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  51. shawna

    shawna Member

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    I'm going to definitely stay up all night if I need to. Anything for my sweet Theodore! It's just so scary knowing I need to know what to do to keep him alive.
     
  52. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Aw you guys are so sweet now I have more tears lol what a night! Thank you!
     
  53. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Good work! You're not out of the woods yet - no food and another test in 20 minutes. You're learning one of the hard lessons right out of the FD gate and the knowledge you've gained is invaluable. :)
     
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  54. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Ok and tomorrow morning I only give insulin IF it's above 200 right?
     
  55. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Yes you are right about this knowledge being invaluable. This has been so awful, but I can't stop thanking you all for helping me. I honestly don't know what would of happened if it wasn't for you all.
     
  56. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    We're all just paying it forward! :smuggrin:
     
  57. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Correct! If it's right on the margin, post here for help.
     
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  58. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and please not 4 units!!! Lol
    You shoot at 5 am est?
     
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  59. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Even if it's 500.... Don't shoot 4. Can I suggest you start at 1 for a few days, and set up a spreadsheet like the one in my signature. We can help you with it. It's made on Google Sheets and is how we help each other with dosing advice.

    We can talk more about that tomorrow though.
     
  60. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Ok test time. Cross your fingers.
     
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  61. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Yes between 5-6am and then 5-6pm eastern time

    I don't understand why the vet (who I love so much) didn't let me know about blood sugar dropping, or maybe that's something people just know? I had no clue until I started googling.
    I don't want to talk badly about her of course, so I won't talk about it more - it's just hard to understand why they wouldn't recommend home testing and warnings?

    Ok going to test again. He isn't even fighting the testing, thankfully. He's just so sleepy.
     
  62. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Oh, THANK YOU!!! so much...
     
  63. shawna

    shawna Member

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    It's 127 now.
    Is this good?? Or maybe I gave too much honey or food? I'll test again in 20 minutes? It won't keep going up and up will it?
     
  64. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    She really should have told you a no shoot number and signs of hypo. My vet didn't really push home testing. She just said some do test at home most don't and made it sound difficult to do.... It was through the encouragement from this forum that i started. I have no doubt without this forum CC would most likely not be in remission now.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2017
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  65. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Yes.... Perfect.
     
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  66. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    If he hasn't been given any food between this test and the previous one, this is good. He's nearing 7 hours after the dose so is either at or just past nadir (the lowest point for BG). No more food and another test in 20 minutes.
     
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  67. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Do I test until morning? I don't care about sleep, I will do whatever is needed. What numbers am I aiming for - just above 50 and what number would be too high?
     
  68. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    It most likely will continue to go up at this point. As I said most cats have a big bounce after going too low. It's OK. It won't hurt him if it goes up.
     
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  69. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Ok, thank you!
     
  70. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Woohooo! 127 is great right now! One more test and you're almost finished!

    The number will keep going up, but like Janet said, no matter how high it gets....only give one unit in the morning (assuming it's over 200).

    And tomorrow, after you've had some time to sleep and recover from all of this drama, make sure you post and we can start to walk you through the things you need to know going forward.

    You did a great job tonight, and can be very proud of the initiative you took to keep your kitty safe!
     
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  71. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Is there any -too high- number like the 50 is for too low. Do you know what I mean? Like a too high number that would be life threatening? Sorry for so many questions!
     
  72. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    No, if the next test (no food) gives a good number, you're probably safe to go to bed.
     
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  73. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Between 50-120 is normal range. Don't aim for 50. Aim for around 100-120 for the lowest. In order to find the right dose though you'll start at 1.... Hold that for a while.... If it's not enough you can gradually increase by 0.25-.5. As I said, lots of experienced people on here that can help with that.
     
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  74. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    No, one really high number isn't a problem. Problems can arise if the numbers stay high for a lengthy period of time.
     
  75. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    We want to see 3 rising numbers. I'd the next test in 20 min is higher then you can probably call it a night.
     
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  76. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Ok one unit im of insulin in the morning, as long as it's over 200.
    And I'm so thankful for any other information on where to go from here that you give me tomorrow.

    I absolutely love you all..... I really, really do!!!
     
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  77. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Oh ok, that makes sense...thanks!
     
  78. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    One big notch can be carved in your FD belt now, Shawna! :D
     
  79. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    :p
    :kiss: we love you too. :)
     
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  80. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Ok, oh I feel so relieved. I know I still have a lot to do and learn to keep my Teddy safe, but for now I'm so relieved he is ok in this moment. xoxoxo
     
  81. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    It's a rite of passage. Lol
     
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  82. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Smile!! Because of you all! Forever thankful :)
     
  83. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

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    Was "one unit im of insulin" a typo? Are you giving the insulin in his muscle or under his skin?
     
  84. shawna

    shawna Member

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    :)
     
  85. shawna

    shawna Member

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    I'm not sure what im means, but I pull his skin up and shoot the needle under his skin. That's what the vet told me to do.
     
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  86. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Kris, are you going to be around? I think I'm going to hit the hay soon.... Looooong week.
     
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  87. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    I'm still here. West Coast. Still have a few hours before bed.
     
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  88. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Goodnight Janet! Thank you from the bottom of my heart! Talk to you soon! You're a kitty angel :)
     
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  89. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Great dj.... It's past my bedtime. Zzzzz.



    Great meeting you Shawna.... Talk to ya'll in the morning.
     
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  90. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    That is the correct way. :)

    "IM" is also used as a medical abbreviation for intramuscular injection, deep in the muscle... That's why I wondered where/how you were injecting.
     
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  91. shawna

    shawna Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2017
    Ok a kitty angel, that probably sounded weird LOL but all this stress, you know what I meant LOL
     
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  92. shawna

    shawna Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2017
    Oh wow I just saw my typo, how funny that's actually a real abbreviation and i didn't even know what it meant or mean to put it there LOL
    thanks for checking!
     
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  93. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Looks like it's about time for the next test, right?
     
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  94. StephG

    StephG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2016
    I usually have typos on my posts too. We usually get what is meant to be said and if not someone will usually ask for clarification. Typos...curse of the "smart" phone and quick typing!
     
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  95. shawna

    shawna Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2017
    149!!
     
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  96. shawna

    shawna Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2017
    149 - this was the third test of every twenty minutes. This is looking really good right!?
     
  97. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    You're getting fast at those! That's a great number!

    So just to clarify: The last dose of insulin was 7 hours ago, and between the last two tests, Teddy did not get any more food. Is that correct?
     
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  98. shawna

    shawna Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2017

    Yes when I saw that low first number I didnt worry about anything except getting the test result! and the more confident I am with the prick for the ear the less time he has to get angry I guess lol.

    The last dose of 2 units of insulin was at 5pm, so yes 7 hours ago and I only gave him food and honey after that first low 40 something test - and that was over an hour ago now
     
  99. shawna

    shawna Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2017
    Ok the next test at 5am? Or I could set my alarm for a couple hours?
    Oh how I wish saturdays could be an exception to that 5am stuff LOL. Just kidding I'm ok with it of course.
     
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  100. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    Great! So you're all done for tonight!

    You've really done a great job! Having one of our kitties go hypo is so scary, but you did everything right to get him back to safe numbers!

    It's not uncommon for the BG to go pretty high after a hypo episode. It's part of how the body heals and protects itself. So please don't worry about whatever number you see in the morning. One high number isn't going to hurt, and we'll help you get him back on track.
     
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