where do I go from here

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by shawna, Apr 28, 2017.

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  1. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    If you would feel better, you can test in a few hours, but he's rising on his own now, and the insulin usually starts to wear off after the 5-7 hour mark.

    So here's the plan for tomorrow:

    Under 200 - no shot
    Over 200 - one unit

    If you have any questions in the morning, go ahead and post them. There are usually people around since many of the folks on here are in the eastern time zone.
     
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  2. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Ok thank you!!!! That was scary...thank you from the bottom of my heart!!! (And thank you to everyone)
    I don't know what might of happened. I'll never forget you all, and your kindness.
    Goodnight! Talk soon! Much love!!!
     
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  3. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Excellent! I feel so relieved knowing what to do now!!!! Thank you!! :)
     
  4. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Good night! Sleep well! Give Teddy a hug from all of us!
     
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  5. shawna

    shawna Member

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    I will definitely give him a hug for you all!!! Smile!!!! xoxoxoxox
    I'm so thankful!
    Goodnight!!
     
  6. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Let us know the preshot test this morning.
     
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  7. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Hey there, I tested him at 6am and it says 247. So he is eating now and then I'll give him the one unit. It's so nice to know what to do!
     
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  8. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Wow that preshot is lower than I thought. Def only give 1 unit.
     
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  9. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Do you use a lancing device that clicks? I don't have one, I'm just using the lancets on his ear - but I think it might be so much easier to use a device? Or no?
    After he eats I need to try to get him to use the bathroom, he didn't go or even move around at all yesterday..
    And then we need a nap lol
     
  10. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Ok thanks. I wonder why the preshot is low? He was taking steriods (not anymore) and he was so stressed at the vet, And I mean beyond stressed, so maybe his numbers were never that high? The first time I bought this monitor last week it read 300 something though.
     
  11. shawna

    shawna Member

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    One more thing please...He is devouring his food since all this started yesterday morning...(usually I have had a hard time getting him to eat all the food I want him to) so should I give him more than the one little can right now? It's 3 ounces. Or just wait until his next meal in twelve hours?
     
  12. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I don't use the device. I did the first two weeks and nor only did she not like the click, I couldn't be as accurate. I'll link to a video I made a few weeks ago about testing.......

     
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  13. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Ok thank you so much for sharing!!
     
  14. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    You don't have to feed 12 hours apart. That's an old fashioned method. Most of us feed several small meals a day, just no food two hours before preshot testing.

    Can you set up a signature so people don't have to ask you the same questions repeatedly? Click on your name at the top and select signature. Add info such as date diagnosed, cats name and age, type of insulin, food you're feeding and any other health concerns.
     
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  15. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Aww I haven't watched it all yet, I'm going to do that now...but it is so nice to see you! And your CC is so adorable!!! Aw! I will definitely upload Theodore's picture soon!
     
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  16. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Yes, definitely
     
  17. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Awe! He looks a lot like my CC! Handsome boy!
     
  18. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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  19. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Aww what a beautiful cat CC is!!! Aw melts my heart! I did my signature, please let me know if I should change anything because I wasn't quite sure what to put / how to write it.
    Thank you for everything! :cat:
     
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  20. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Looks good. :)
     
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  21. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    I had missed this question. Being at the vet can definitely raise numbers.... Some cats they can raise 100 points or more! This is why curves at home are so much more accurate than at the vet. This is really a great preshot number.... If you had blindly shot 4 u he would have been in big trouble.
     
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  22. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    Teddy is a very handsome boy! I've just read through the last parts of your thread here. Congratulations on getting through the hypo and keeping Teddy safe. :) A lot of learning happened last night!
     
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  23. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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  24. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    It's amazing that his pre shot is so good after that episode last night. He might not be a big bouncer after all and that's a good thing. Please think about setting up the spreadsheet we use here. It's viewable by all members and is the first thing we look at before offering advice. There are techies on here to help with it if needed.
    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
     
  25. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Yep that was going to be my next suggestion.

    Download Google Sheets and follow the above link. :).
     
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  26. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Good morning! Your signature looks great, and I love your photo! One little change to the signature: yous say 1 unit as needed, but it should be 1u BID or 1u 2x/day. Or you could just take that off since the dose will change fairly often.

    What a great pre-shot! How long ago did Teddy stop the steroid?
     
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  27. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Great job last night, Shawna :bighug:. CC and Theodore could be siblings! Both sooo adorable :cat::cat:. Very nice PS this morning!
     
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  28. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Hi Shawna! I missed all the excitement last night...you did AMAZING! I think I saw that you're in FL? I'm just up the road from you in AL!

    Please do continue to ask us any questions you have and let us know how we can help you...that's what we're here for!
     
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  29. shawna

    shawna Member

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    I love when CC puts his little mouth right up to the test strip...sooo cute!! I just watched the video again, so helpful. I am going to add the neosporin and the cotton pads to his little kit. Thanks again for sharing the video.
     
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  30. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Yes I definitely will set up a spreadsheet. That's such a great resource, thanks.
     
  31. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Yes I can't even explain how grateful I am! I learned SO MUCH last night....
    Here's my little sweetie right now, he's so much better than last night. Yesterday was rough. Theodore and I are both thankful to have found you all. :)
    IMG_1525.JPG
     
  32. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Thank you about the signature information! He stopped the steroids for arthritis over a week ago, right around the same time the vet diagnosed him with diabetes. We stopped the steroid because he wasn't doing well....but it turns out he wasn't doing well because he had the diabetes... We thought he was losing his back leg strength from his arthritis or possibly something terrible that wasn't diagnosed yet, but I think all these problems were from high blood sugar.
    He had taken that for a good three weeks....so I'm glad he isn't taking that anymore!
    He has Meloxidyl for his arthritis now, but she said only give to him when I see he looks like he needs it / or on bad days she said.
     
  33. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Hi there! It's nice to meet you and everyone here. What a lovely group of people and such invaluable information shared! I know they saved Teddy's life last night and I'll be forever thankful.
    Thank you!
     
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  34. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    What a handsome fur baby!!! Aren't they just adorable when they are sound asleep like that!

    It sounds like he's having some neuropathy -- common with diabetes. As his numbers settle, you will likely see some improvement in his leg strength and comfort.

    Have you done a mid-cycle test today to see how he's doing on that one unit?
     
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  35. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Ok I just checked. He had a cute growl going on...oh my, he's getting annoyed with his mama lol

    It is at 93.

    ??
     
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  36. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Is he at +7 right now? (seven hours after shot time)
    93 is a great number!
     
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  37. shawna

    shawna Member

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    I tested him at 6am and it said 247. He ate and I gave him the 1 unit shot about 6:20 or so.... so it's been about 6 hours I believe since food and shot.

    So 93 is a good stable number for the day until I check him tonight? And if his preshot is lower than 200, no insulin right?
    I will definitely do that spreadsheet today!
     
  38. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Exactly! All of that is correct. 93 is on the high end of our "green" numbers which means it is both good and safe. Being at +6 means he isn't likely to go much lower.

    Make sure he doesn't eat in the two hours just before the evening test. The rest of the day it's fine for him to eat.
     
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  39. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    If you think the leg weakness is diabetic neuropathy, give him vitamin B12 to help reverse it.
     
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  40. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Try to keep the two test/feed/shoot times as close to 12 hours, and as consistently as you can. Prozinc has some flexibility in terms of still being safe, but it seems to work best when it's consistent.
     
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  41. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    perfect number!
     
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  42. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Thank you so much!!!!!!
    Can I ask what are green/safe numbers are again, meaning the actual numbers are?
     
  43. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Ok I definitely will! Thank you!
     
  44. shawna

    shawna Member

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    That's great info to know!!!! Thanks!!
     
  45. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    0-49 is lime green = bad
    50-99 is dark green = great

    The ranges are all listed at the top of the spreadsheet, so once you get that set up and start putting in numbers, the color coding happens automatically.
     
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  46. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

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    If you check the spreadsheets most of us have linked in our signatures, the BG numbers are on a "scale" with different colours. The darker green numbers are a good range for most cats at peak insulin time, and can even help the pancreas to "heal" and kick itself back into action in some cases. (Although the light/neon green numbers indicate hypoglycaemia, as you experienced already!) Wish mine would spend a bit more time in that range, hahah. As someone already mentioned, target lows are around 100ish for most cats (or not much above that), as that allows a bit of safe leeway.

    I just read over this thread and that was sure a rollercoaster. Glad Teddy's okay!
     
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  47. Blair & Freya

    Blair & Freya Member

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    Whoops, I see @Djamila beat me to it. :cat:
     
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  48. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Oh wow it's a color coded spreadsheet!! I honestly just stumbled upon this website last night through panic and tears, and I've already learned so much and I feel Teddy is going to be ok!! Before I found you all I just didn't think I could do all this and I didn't think he would be ok!! I don't mean to keep going on and on, but you are all life savers. Xoxoxoxo
     
  49. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Nice to meet you! Thank you for this information too!!! xoxoxoxo
     
  50. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    The power went out here because a car just hit a power pole. Not much to do, while I wait for them to fix it!
     
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  51. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    Oh no, hope the power comes back on soon!

    93 is a great number!!!
     
  52. Kris & Teasel

    Kris & Teasel Well-Known Member

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    I agree! Great BG for Teddy today. Hallelujah for FDMB! :D
     
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  53. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    Very nice Teddy :D
     
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  54. shawna

    shawna Member

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    I tested him at 6:30pm, just a bit ago, and it is exactly 200.
    He is eating now...I should still do the 1 unit insulin after right? I'm did not get to do the spreadsheet yet, but I'm going to. Just wanted to check to make sure I'm doing the right thing since it's exactly 200....
     
  55. shawna

    shawna Member

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    I don't mean to bother you but if the reading is 200 I still give the 1 unit of insulin right?
     
  56. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm.....hang on just a second...
     
  57. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Will you be able to get another test in tonight sometime around +4 or +5?

    Do your syringes have any other marks besides the whole unit marks for 1u, 2u, 3u, etc? Are there any half unit marks?
     
  58. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Teddy's going to keep you on your toes, isn't he?
     
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  59. shawna

    shawna Member

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    I don't have half marks in the syrings but I could make it go right in the middle of zero and one??

    Yes I'll be home now all night - so should I wait and test him ?
     
  60. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    No, I'm thinking you should give what we call a skinny 1u. You draw up the 1 unit, but stop just a little shy of it. And then still make sure you get a test before bed tonight.
     
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  61. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Yes!! :)
     
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  62. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Ok great, thank you....thank you, and thank you!
     
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  63. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Are you still feeding the Royal Canin? Is it the Glycobalance dry? or something else?
     
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  64. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    i agree... do a "skinny" 1... like a .75
     
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  65. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Yes only the wet canned royal canon glycobalance food. He ate only dry food his whole life but when all this started happening he refused dry food, and kind of acts like a tooth hurts even tho the vet said his teeth look good. so I switched to just wet. I have the fancy feast wet food here too, just in case I ever need him to eat more.
     
  66. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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  67. shawna

    shawna Member

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    And I just had to wash his bottom because he refuses to go in his litter box since this all happened because he was peeing so much from the excessive drinking that the clay litter was getting stuck in his paws and it hurt him, so I really think that's why he is refusing! So I have wee wee pads that he goes on. Stressful but I don't know what else to do!
    But now since his legs seem weak/are hurting, it's kind of like he sits in the pee as he pees or after. So I always am trying to wipe him up and he growls sometimes because his legs are hurting. I think I need to give him the Meloxidyl every day for awhile, I wish I just knew. My poor Theodore. I hope I'm taking good care of him, I mean I think I am but I hate that he is hurting! this really is hard to go through. He's been my only pet and I didn't realize it would be so hard! I mean I know it is, but to go through it is harder than I thought.
     
  68. shawna

    shawna Member

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  69. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    I'm so sorry to hear he's having such a hard time with his legs! The good news is that you're getting some really great numbers right now, and that will help him heal. How long ago did you start noticing the problems with his hind legs?
     
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  70. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Everything started all at once in the beginning of February. He stays inside and has never been sick in his life besides having some teeth pulled.
    So the beginning of February he stopped eating and drinking...he was treated for an ear infection. He had bloodwork done and it didn't show diabetes but it showed higher liver enzymes.
    He was limping badly. She did X-rays but they were not clear....She thought he had cancer and wanted to do biopsys and it was costing me a small fortune. So I switched vets.
    The new vet did awesome X-rays and found the patch of arthritic and after a month did bloodwork and found diabetes.
     
  71. shawna

    shawna Member

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    I did not switch vets because of the money - but I switched because this was her first year as a vet and I didn't feel confident with her - I'm sure she is awesome - but I was told about a highly experienced vet so I switched to her and she pin pointed everything very quickly.
    I've been happy for far. Her partner vet told me to switch to 4 units, so I think I will talk to my main vet when I go in next.
     
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  72. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    How do you think he would do switching litters? There are some litters that will stick to him less. And may help with him getting pee on himself. There are shallow litter boxes that he might be able to enter more easily with the arthritis, and a new box might help him with the negative association too.

    Vets and diabetes are difficult. They just don't get much training on how to treat it -- especially in cats. That's why this place is so helpful -- it's full of people who do this everyday, so you can learn way more than your vet knows! ;)
     
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  73. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Yes this place is a life saver for real!!! I tried to buy the yesterday's news cat litter....recycled paper... with a new shallow litter box and he refused! And I even bought a shallow litter box and just put a ton of soft wee wee pads in there, even that would be better. But he refuses that too! He only wants to go in one place (in my living room!!!! Noooo) but it's near the couch where he is sleeping now. He doesn't go upstairs anymore so I've been sleeping downstairs on the couch with him! I love this cat, lol.
    So I have the wee wee pads on the carpet. He's only had one accident on the carpet total, but I still can't just let to continue to go to the bathroom there! Although he rules this house, it's just Teddy and me and he does whatever he wants lol but I hope I can resolve this when he feels better!
     
  74. shawna

    shawna Member

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    He has cat stairs that he manages to get up on the couch. He doesn't jump or move around much at all lately.
     
  75. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Lol...oh, how I can relate to that! It's me and two kitties....I often say this is their house, and they just let me live here because I feed them! Have you tried World's Best Cat Litter? It has a more similar feel to clay, but it doesn't stick to them.

    Sounds like his arthritis is really bothering him. Why don't you post out in the main forum about the arthritis and the metacam? There might be some folks here who have some experience with it that could give some suggestions about pain management for him.
     
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  76. jbfrank

    jbfrank New Member

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    Exactly. And to add to that, I feel that older vets might also be a little out of touch with things like low carbohydrate diets and the different insulin regimens. I was happy to see that Teddy was initially prescribed Prozinc as my vet started Buddy (my cat) on NPH, but she was open minded and switched him over at my request without a fuss.

    Shawna, good luck to Teddy and you. He is very fortunate to have you as his best friend and caretaker!
     
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  77. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    @jbfrank -- look at your spreadsheet!!! Those numbers are great! Congrats on the quick turn around!
     
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  78. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Lol yes! Ted knows he can do anything!
    No I haven't heard of that litter, but I will definitely give it a try!! Fingers crossed!
    Good idea about posting on the main forum about arthritis and this medicine! I don't know a lot about this medicine either. And it's like he suddenly went from perfectly healthy to sick. I know cats hide their pain well so it wasn't overnight but it sure seemed like it to me. I'd love to hear pain management ideas....thanks for the idea!
     
  79. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Aww thank you jbfrank! Well he was initially prescribed a different insulin that was so expensive! I had mentioned that I was a bit worried about the cost and then my vet asked me if I wanted to try the prozinc and that it was for cats....so that's how he got this insulin. It looks like this ended up being a good choice, thankfully!
    Thanks for the kind words. :)
     
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  80. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

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    Dr.elsey's Cat Attract litter might be worth a try too.
     
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  81. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Ok great! I wrote those two kinds down!! Thanks!
     
  82. Rachel

    Rachel Well-Known Member

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    You might also try putting a litter box in the spot he was peeing on the carpet. See if he'll use it there....and then over time you might be able to slowly move it to a better spot for you both.
     
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  83. Cherish Gallagher

    Cherish Gallagher Member

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    Mar 27, 2017
    My vet didn't let me know any of this info either. I had the same problem as you a few weeks ago with shooting while she was too low because I just didn't know...
     
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  84. shawna

    shawna Member

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    That's a good idea...I didn't think of that. I was trying to move the wee wee pads slowly towards the litter box, but I'll give this idea a try! Thank you!
     
  85. shawna

    shawna Member

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    I'm glad we both know now!
    I'm feeling a bit paranoid now though. I keep worrying his blood sugar will go really low again. I wasn't able to check him a second time tonight (I did the pre shot) but I wanted to check him again because he's acting a bit weird....but he truly won't let me. He even hissed at me...so sad. I could try to fight it out with him, but I feel he is going to be ok right now. He ate some more so I'm going to just get his testing in the morning and I'll keep checking on him tonight. Doesn't help that I'm sick myself right now, just a bad cold, but that really drains the energy from you. I'm not complaining, just stressed out lol
     
  86. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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    I was so surprised to see that progress in such a short time too! Might see another diet controlled kitty! :cat:
     
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  87. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

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  88. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Ugh! I was hoping I was wrong about that!

    Shawna - try giving Teddy some love and woo him with treats and head scratches (or whatever he likes). Hopefully he'll let you get another test in.

    As for the food -- that food is too high in carbs to be healthy for a diabetic cats. Most vets prescribe that or something similar - but we all end up on low-carb foods for our kitties. HOWEVER...if you just stop feeding it to him, it's likely his BG is going to drop pretty dramatically. So changing him onto Fancy Feast Classics pate, or Friskies pate (or something else low carb - but those are good foods and inexpensive) is going to take some care and require you to be able to test in order to keep him safe. So keep feeding how you've been feeding him until you can be more certain of getting the tests done. I would say odds are once the food is switched he will have numbers in the normal, non-diabetic ranges. Time will tell...
     
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  89. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Apr 28, 2017
    Wow, how can vets prescribe that food for cats with diabetes! :( that is so sad...so they do not know low carbs work best for diabetic cats? I'm so confused!

    All tonight Teddy has been on alert and growling. Any time I get near him (or move if I'm on the couch with him) he growls at me. He never does this!!!! I'm trying to let him be in peace but I'm also getting my confidence up to try to test him. This is so awful :(
     
  90. Yong & Maury GA

    Yong & Maury GA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    I know it's difficult to not let that behaviour effect you but remember you are doing it to help him, keep him safe, not to hurt him. Deep breathes :bighug: You got this!
     
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  91. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

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    Aug 1, 2015
    Ugh. I remember that phase. Sending you lots of love and reassurance! :bighug::bighug::bighug:
     
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  92. Djamila

    Djamila Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2015
    I think what happens is that the sales reps go into the vet offices and spin them a tall tale about how great the food is and how it's scientifically formulated and will magically heal all the pets. The vets sincerely want to help their clients, so they believe the sales pitch and then pass it on to all of us. They do make a profit off of selling it, but I choose to believe that the vets have good intentions, they just don't know it's bogus and don't have time/take the time to research it.

    My vet specifically told me that the glycobalance was low carb, and I think he really honestly thought it was. It wasn't until I went home and found this board that I learned otherwise.
     
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  93. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    Does he like cat nip? That might chill him out!

    Always give a treat when testing so he gets good associations with it. Fresh meats like chicken, cold cuts without fillers(Boars head brand I know doesn't), cat nip, freeze dried meat treats.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2017
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  94. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Apr 28, 2017

    Wow, thanks for sharing...it makes sense. I guess that just reaffirms why it is so essential to get our own knowledge to help our fur babies!

    His blood sugar this morning - right now - is 349.

    I don't know why the number jump around so much. Do I still stick to 1 unit?

    I know I can't keep asking every single time, and I couldn't do the spreadsheet yet because I'm sick with first grade germs lol. It's just a cold but I feel awful, so I didn't have the time or energy to figure it out yesterday.
     
  95. shawna

    shawna Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2017
    Oh I never thought to use fresh meats as a treat - he has never eaten people food. Well not that fresh meat is only people food lol ...only people own that food lol, oh geez I am tired LOL but I will try that because right now he is starting to really not like when I touch his ears!

    His blood sugar right now is 349, so high? I think it's because I panicked last night and gave him extra food because I kept worrrying his blood sugar was low because I couldn't test him, he was not happy last night!

    I asked djamila already, but i don't know if she will get the message, do I always stay with 1 unit if it's over 200, even if it's high like it is now?
     
  96. shawna

    shawna Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2017

    Catnip used to make him a bit crazy lol. It won't hurt to try though, thanks!
     
  97. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    It's really not that high for a preshot. Yes, do 1 unit for a few days.
     
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  98. JanetNJ

    JanetNJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2016
    And don't forget to play. Right now he is passed at you and could use some positive interactions. Not to mention activity helps lower their levels just like for people.
     
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  99. shawna

    shawna Member

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    Apr 28, 2017
    Ok, thank you so very much.
    I hope you have a good day!
     
  100. shawna

    shawna Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2017
    Yes I will definitely try. He doesn't want to get off the couch! I bought him new little ball toys and he just looks at me like, yeah right. Lol. But I will try xo
     
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